2017 Fluke Regulations Not Looking Good

[Gerry Zagorski]

Based on this looks like we are going to take a hit on 2017 Fluke Regulations :( https://www.greateratlantic.fisheries.noaa.gov/mediacenter/2016/november/15_summer_flounder_catch_limits_proposed.html

[Ismellfishy]

YIKES!!! Bucktails and Gulp! for sale!!

[Walleyed]

Fluke is going to go the way of winter flounder.....2 fish and done.

[tjd24]

Based on this looks like we are going to take a hit on 2017 Fluke Regulations :( https://www.greateratlantic.fisheries.noaa.gov/mediacenter/2016/november/15_summer_flounder_catch_limits_proposed.html

Does the SSFFF have any preliminary study results to submit to NOAA to preempt this attack?

[Detour66]

"We are proposing these measures in order to ensure sustainability of summer flounder stocks for future generations of fishermen and "CONSUMERS".

I am willing to bet that more short Fluke are released dead as bycatch by commercial fisherman for the "CONSUMERS" than rod and reel fisherman keep on any given day. So will this reduction be across the board for commercial and recreational? Most recreational fishing is done on the weekends. The bay and ocean are lightly fished during the week. So really most of the fish caught by recreational guys are caught on weekends that's it. What about bad weather days during the summer and also most of September is a washout tropical storms etc. I really like to know how they are coming up with this information. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens before we jump the gun but from this statement is doesn't look good. Here we go again!

[Del River Rat]

:eek::confused:🙄

[atcojg]

maybe the new party in control can be reasoned with

[dakota560]

Saw winter flounder the other day at Shop Rite for 16.99 a lb.! When fisheries management have commercial concerns hamstrung by the same regulations recreational guys are I'll consider abiding by their regulations. Until then I'll make my own. Most of us work our asses off our entire lives so we can enjoy a few simple pleasures in life. For most fisherman that pleasure is fishing. NOAA with their questionable data and biased regulations and allocations won't take that pleasure away. For what now 7 years the winter flounder fishing has either been closed or a two fish limit which essentially means it's closed. Where the hell are all these fish? 30 years ago you'd catch 50 flounder a day of all sizes in skinny water like Shark River when there were no restrictions and fish were absolutely abundant year in year out. There was actually a sizable party boat fleet targeting them in the spring, healthy rental boat livery and an amazing fall / spring season enjoyed by many anglers fishing from shore. There should be millions of flounder flooding the rivers and bays every year after all these years of closed season. The amount of eggs hatched every year has to be off the charts. Eggs are either dying, cormorants are devastating the young before they leave the bays or commercial guys are absolutely decimating the stocks off shore. Something is completely wrong with this fishery and NOTHING is being done to find out what and address it. I can't believe this isn't either 100% commercial related or cormorants. Two years ago while waiting to launch our boat in Shark River I watched one cormorant in a half hour come up with 8 flounder of varying sizes. 8 flounder in a half hour by one bird! So instead of trying to identify the problem, all we get are closed seasons and restrictions. How about cause and effect analysis and remedial steps to address the problem. Recreational guys get screwed, we get a crumb thrown our way so we can spend $100 bucks to catch two flounder (after spending $13 for a dozen blood worms!) and if you don't catch any you can go buy a few for $16.99 lb. at Shop Rite! %$@# NOAA! The poster who said summer flounder is on track to be EXACTLY like winter flounder in a few years hit it right on the head. When the powers to be show parity regarding commercial and recreational regulations and address the real problems, I'll abide by their reg's but until then as far as I'm concerned this is self regulation. NOAA has their heads so far up their ass I'm surprised they can even propose regulations. As someone already mentioned, it wouldn't surprise me if the amount of fish which die from being culled by commercial concerns probably exceeds the entire annual catch made by recreational anglers. It's tragic what is happening to our past time!

[Irish Jigger]

At this point it seems after everything that's been done the endless hours of research marching ect... and the Money donated on top of that it is what it is. Always put money in Petes Jar when he was in Atlantic. Left countless filleted fish in his freezers and all for what??? NADA!!!! It's not about the commercial guys or the rod and reel guys at this point it's government doing what they want to do!!!!!

[1captainron]

I hate to get Political, but I am tiered after a LONG Career of getting it shoved up my #@*!! Hopefully our newly elect President, through the RFA, will see how we have been getting screwed year after year.....This non-sense has to stop! SSFFF has been working hard for several years with real data on Sexting Studies that we now have to show how the Regulations have taken the fishery down the wrong road! Will the powers that be except the data and do the right thing? Time will tell....less Government involvement and Fire the *******s who got us to this place of No return!!!

Too many people have to justify their jobs....Never "Status Quo", or your not doing your job. That's Bullshit! While way too many Party and Charter boats go out of Business every year and the Customer base declines are worse than the God Dam depreciation, who has had our Back? Hope and change my Ass, how did that work out? Let's talk some real hope for the future. Give us all a chance to enjoy a Simple day out on the Water catching a few fish, without looking over our shoulders!:mad: "WE THE PEOPLE" Demand it!

[Reel Class]

I hate to get Political, but I am tiered after a LONG Career of getting it shoved up my #@*!! Hopefully our newly elect President, through the RFA, will see how we have been getting screwed year after year.....This non-sense has to stop! SSFFF has been working hard for several years with real data on Sexting Studies that we now have to show how the Regulations have taken the fishery down the wrong road! Will the powers that be except the data and do the right thing? Time will tell....less Government involvement and Fire the *******s who got us to this place of No return!!!

Too many people have to justify their jobs....Never "Status Quo", or your not doing your job. That's Bullshit! While way too many Party and Charter boats go out of Business every year and the Customer base declines are worse than the God Dam depreciation, who has had our Back? Hope and change my Ass, how did that work out? Let's talk some real hope for the future. Give us all a chance to enjoy a Simple day out on the Water catching a few fish, without looking over our shoulders!:mad: "WE THE PEOPLE" Demand it!

I'm hoping that Mr. Trump, in his push to empower small businesses, can get a hold of this flawed information and see how it NEGATIVELY affects small businesses that dot our coastline IN THE FISHING INDUSTRY. Hopefully he will get it, and step in and somehow liberalize regs a bit so all of us can make $$$$

[Slip It In]

Came across this short history lesson from another website few months ago. See the below link if it works. Really gets under my skin.

I really feel bad for the Charter and Party boat owners. How about the people who actually see the fish on the deck every day have a say in the regulations, like the Charter and Party boat owners. I guess that would put a few federal bean counters out of work and open up tons and tons of fishing boat owners and mates jobs. And to make some money!

I will stop self regulating my catch as soon as my taxes are reduced by 30% each year like the fishing regulations.


http://www.njsaltfish.com/index.php/nj-regulatons-history.html

[Ryelof]

I would love to see the "science" of this reported over fishing, I probably went fluke fishing 12 times this summer and not once did we have a boat limit and never had any one survey our catch for the day. So where do these numbers come from?

[Pete]

Getting grouped in with NY does nothing to help the NJ cause. Since this happened. The NY anglers have been enjoying the best seasons in years. Meanwhile NJ has continued to struggle. Based on reports, NY doesn't have as much of a problem to catch 18" fish, as we here in NJ do. I was led to believe that most 18" or larger fish are females, the breeders that are routinely taken, while the shorter fish are set free. Seems counter productive if these so called regs. are designed for rebuilding fish stocks. We NJ anglers need to stand alone. That is and should be the first step in the right direction. I'd like to think that Trump would be a catalyst in sorting this mess out. But, realistically he's got much bigger fish to fry at the moment. And, remember when Gov. Christie got in, we believed he was the answer! We know where that got us. If I've learned anything it's that there really isn't a politician who can get us out of this mess. Not in the foreseeable future, that is.

I do believe that there can be some legal battle waged such as the SSFFF has done in the past. But, that takes a lot of money, time and expertise. And, fishermen in general, not all mind you, aren't ready to donate money when they can't put there hands on something tangible. Furthermore, instant results are desired But, this type challenge takes time, assuming the funds needed are raised. So, I'll continue to donate and hope. But, more than anything I'll pray. Because guys, we need a higher power to fix this mess. It has gone on far too long. Year after year, season after season and species and more species.

I consider myself very fortunate that I don't do this for a living. And, I really feel for you guys. Wish I had an answer.

[Gerry Zagorski]

The situation we are in right now is a 2 headed beast that needs to be fought politically and scientifically.

The RFA is taking the political route. The good news here is that Jim Donofrio and the RFA believes that the new administration will be much more open to introducing some Flexibility in the Magnuson Stevens Act... As it stands right now, there is no Flexibility built into the Act and Fisheries management, by law, has to take drastic measures if a Fishery is deemed over fished. So the combination of the current stock assessment, believe the numbers or not and no Flexibility, we are looking at a shorter season, lower bag limits or increased size or a mix of all the above.

The SSFFF is fighting on the Science side by trying to introduce detailed sex structured and discard information into the Scientific Assessment model. Similar methods were used very successfully to better assess Halibut stocks several years ago. They've recently funded projects with Rutgers and Cornell to collect sex and discard information and hope to have this information ready to present in the next Peer Review. That is expected some time in 2017 or 2018 and this is when NOAA Scientists get together to review best practices for Stock Assessments.

One thing to be very clear on here and the SSFFF has said all along. This is not about getting more favorable fishing regulations for us... This is to make sure we get the right regulations to sustain the fishery by using better science.

Both these organizations need our continued support.

[Pete]

Gerry thank you for the informational post and the respective organizations purposes regarding the fishermen's plight and the mission of each.

I do remember some years back when the SSFFF managed to get a judge to agree that the "emergency" hastily enacted in season sea bass closure was in error. However, the injunction came after the legitimate closed season was already in effect. So, we lost those fishing days anyway. But, the judge did rule that the closing was unnecessary. And, this is the type legal front to which I refer.

I fish and do believe conservation measures are necessary. I further agree that the methods used are flawed and that has been proven and attested to by experts.

My rant over the grouping with NY is what it states. The NJ struggles are obvious and NY has been enjoying some very productive years. But, their lofty numbers are factored in with our paltry ones. So, we take any prospective hit along with them. Conversely, we would reap the rewards, if there were any to be had. Oh yeah, we did get the 1/2 inch reduction in size! Hooray!

The target is and forever will be a moving one. Considering weather, low stock years and the continued use of flawed information. This will be a way of life for a long of time. If they ever get it right, the cuts may not be as deep. We shall see.............

[jmurr711]

I am sure PEOTUS will make the limits like it was in 1950 just like he wants to do with every other aspect of this country........ WE ARE F#CKED NO MATTER WHO IS IN CHARGE

[Offshoreafflicted]

I am sure PEOTUS will make the limits like it was in 1950 just like he wants to do with every other aspect of this country........ WE ARE F#CKED NO MATTER WHO IS IN CHARGE

Somebody has been watching too much CNN:D

[bulletbob]

somebody has been watching too much cnn:d
pmsnbc;)

[NoLimit]

The fact that we are allowed to take only breeder fluke while full grown 17" male fluke die of old age proves that our bureaucrats are clueless.

I wish they would be forced to come on social media to defend themselves. Instead they are locked in their ivory towers.

Maybe Trump can do something about that.

[njmultispecies]

Thanks capitalism. When people start to care about where there food comes from then fisheries will stabilize, until then just pray for corporate greed to end.

[joetheplumber]

Agreed with comments above.... mostly due to Commercial boats taking everything. Whatever they don't keep, they throw back dead.... Makes it bad for the recreational fisherman!!!!! This is unbelievable! Trickles down to bait and tackle shops, luncheonettes, etc. etc.....

[frugalfisherman]

If I went by the regulations I'd be worried.

[Capt Sal]

A law suit is the only way!

[dakota560]

I can appreciate everyone's hopes that the PEOTUS is going to have some bearing on our fisheries but with a divided country and the challenges facing him after his inauguration, I wouldn't count on NOAA and fisheries management making his top 10 list. This is going to be a disaster for the foreseeable future and wouldn't be surprised if we're at a 2 - 3 fish limit in a few years. Think about it, tournaments with combined 5 fish weigh in and possibly even 3 fish combined weight will be a thing of the past. Feel sorry for Party and Charter boats when we go to 2 fish at 21 inches, you know it's coming. As I said until there's representation of recreational interests taken into consideration it's self regulation from here on out. Especially when you see 12 inch fluke fillets at the market throughout the entire summer for $14.99 lb.. &%$% NOAA!

[Detour66]

IMO the ONLY way to battle this is through lobbying. And that means big money. I am sure the commercial interests have lobbyist and that's why they get there way. Money talks and BS walks! Until then we are all just pi**ing in the wind! Also don't be surprised if the government comes up with a pay to play system where party and charter boats buy permits to catch x amount of fish a season. that's coming down the pike also.

BTW I despise the lobbying system but it's the only way to get things like this done in the land of the free!

[1captainron]

IMO the ONLY way to battle this is through lobbying. And that means big money. I am sure the commercial interests have lobbyist and that's why they get there way. Money talks and BS walks! Until then we are all just pi**ing in the wind! Also don't be surprised if the government comes up with a pay to play system where party and charter boats buy permits to catch x amount of fish a season. that's coming down the pike also.

BTW I despise the lobbying system but it's the only way to get things like this done in the land of the free!

Dam, your starting to sound like me now!! LOL!

[Detour66]

Dam, your starting to sound like me now!! LOL!

I will take that as a complement Capt Ron !!

[june181901]

If the commercial people can keep 14 inch fish why not the same for party boat anglers? These owners have bank payments to make, employ other guys as mates etc. but will be out of business in NJ if something doesn't change. Customers will be few and far between in the future if two or three fish limits are imposed.

[JBird]

If you want to know who's in charge then go to the fish market when sea bass is closed to us and look at the sea bass for sale.

[jmurr711]

If you want to know who's in charge then go to the fish market when sea bass is closed to us and look at the sea bass for sale.

Couldn't agree more dude. Threw back HUNDREDS of 12-12.9999999 inch sea bass this fall on my charters I go to supermarket 8 inch pins for $14.99lb

[irishc]

I am sure PEOTUS will make the limits like it was in 1950 just like he wants to do with every other aspect of this country........ WE ARE F#CKED NO MATTER WHO IS IN CHARGE

Well said!

[irishc]

I can appreciate everyone's hopes that the PEOTUS is going to have some bearing on our fisheries but with a divided country and the challenges facing him after his inauguration, I wouldn't count on NOAA and fisheries management making his top 10 list. This is going to be a disaster for the foreseeable future and wouldn't be surprised if we're at a 2 - 3 fish limit in a few years. Think about it, tournaments with combined 5 fish weigh in and possibly even 3 fish combined weight will be a thing of the past. Feel sorry for Party and Charter boats when we go to 2 fish at 21 inches, you know it's coming. As I said until there's representation of recreational interests taken into consideration it's self regulation from here on out. Especially when you see 12 inch fluke fillets at the market throughout the entire summer for $14.99 lb.. &%$% NOAA!

Also well said!

[AndyS]

Oh I almost forgot, don't forget to sign up for the Saltwater Registry in 2017 also :D

[SNAPS]

I would love to see the "science" of this reported over fishing, I probably went fluke fishing 12 times this summer and not once did we have a boat limit and never had any one survey our catch for the day. So where do these numbers come from?
They take stock assessment samples where there are no fish so yeah their data is flawed believe they take into account the number of days that boats were able to sail so if you had 90 days of good weather and boats got to sail every day then they think you caught fish they never came down to the boats to see how many trips I got skunked. It's a effing joke Hate to say it but you have to grease some palms it's called LOBBYING.