Short Fluke Mortality Rate?

[dales529]

I have seen posts on here on short fluke " floating away dead" or comments on "Gut hooked" fluke that will die eventually, NOAA has it in their data base of a 10% mortality rate that hurts our regulations which suck anyway and I believe its 1 % or less. .

Am I missing something????? I fish mainly charter boats and private but do Fluke on head boats and 99% of all shorts I see released swim away so ferociously its not funny. Granted a few hooked by once in awhile fisher
people may be gut hooked but before we add to an already bad data system please explain why those who post this mortality rate have this opinion?

Most trips for us have been anywhere from 6 to 30 Keepers with 25 to 100 + shorts all released to live another day. I have been on at least 6 to 10 trips with zero mortality rate on shorts / YES ZERO mortality Rate. WTF with adding to NOAA Bad science

I personally think this is an "Old School" of thought before bucktails and bait rigs of today but sorry not a believer in the Short KILL

[tjd24]

I don't understand those statements either. Today I caught over 25 short fluke myself and all fish bolted for the bottom when released.
When I get a fish that's hooked too deep, I cut the line and with hope the hook rusts out. I think many people just tear the hooks out of deeply hooked fish or hold them out of the water too long to save a hook.
My deep hooked ratio went down when I moved up in hook size to 5/0.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I'd have to agree. Back in the day people were dragging bait and using those old school English style hooks which were notorious for gut hooking even the smallest of Fluke.

Now lots of people bucktailing, not many using those old school hooks when dragging bait, and in general people are more conservation minded and are more careful about how they handle throw backs.

[dakota560]

No doubt about it. Didn't want to comment earlier on mortality rates and get into another argument. Personally we use buck tails and either a 6 inch grub or 6 in swim shad up top most of the time. On the tail we'll use salmon belly or a 6 inch grub. In a dozen trips this year maybe one or two shorts were hooked deep and died, that's it. If Joey Da Fish is on board and is the net guy, the mortality rate is almost zero as he releases them before they come out of the water! sorry couldn't help myself! Dragging bait, big difference and have no idea what the mortality rate is but it wouldn't surprise me if it was significant. Party boat Captains would have a much better sense of that.

[Billfish715]

Okay. Now who will spend the money to finance another scientific survey to determine the new percentage of fluke mortality? Will the Feds do it? Will it be privately financed? Will it be done quickly and expeditiously? Will it lower the size limits? The answer to all of the questions is the same.

The hook size thread came up before. Some people still swear by smaller hooks. Some don't.

Here's the real question. Does anyone remember a time when there were not enough fluke to support a recreational and commercial fishery? Here's one more to chew on. Who asked the Feds to step in....the recs or the commercials or no one at all?

[Pennsy Guy]

Dakota-I don't think the mortality rate is much, if any different on a PB than any other boat...mates should have it right, they are professionals, mostly, and are on the PB I fish...just sayin.....

[CadiShackFishing]

Great point Dave, I can't even remember when the shorts we caught didn't make a bee line for the bottom after being released. I agree that bucktailing avoids gut hooks.

[No Fluke]

Most of my experience fishing for Fluke has been on party boats, so the mortality rate is probably closer to the 10% than the 1%. As already noted, it's impossible to definitively know.

In the days when they were plentiful I'd see newbies improperly unhook the fish and toss it back since a mate was busy with someone else and sadly watch it float on the water. :(

[Capt Sal]

Most of my experience fishing for Fluke has been on party boats, so the mortality rate is probably closer to the 10% than the 1%. As already noted, it's impossible to definitively know.

In the days when they were plentiful I'd see newbies improperly unhook the fish and toss it back since a mate was busy with someone else and sadly watch it float on the water. :(

In the days when they were plentiful? That is now!

[Super]

Personally I hook and release 90% of fluke with no real injury. Of the other 10%, I'd guess that half don't survive because of a gut hook, gill hook, etc...

If they come out of the water bleeding from the gill, I assume that they're DOA.

[Detour66]

Most of the short Fluke I hook are released quickly and in good shape. I use larger hooks so most the time they are hooked by the mouth. If by chance they are "gut hooked" I carfefully remove the hook by going through the gils and by slowly taking the hook out. I think larger hooks are the key.

[dakota560]

Dakota-I don't think the mortality rate is much, if any different on a PB than any other boat...mates should have it right, they are professionals, mostly, and are on the PB I fish...just sayin.....

My comments weren't directed towards the quality of mates or unhooking fish on board a party boat. What I meant was during the summer months there are many people who patronize party boats who are not experienced fisherman. That's not a knock on them either, just part of the vacation experience. Probably most of the people falling into that category use bait and probably a majority of them don't react quickly to a hit therefore allowing the fish to swallow the hook. If all that's true, then I would guess more fish end up being gut hooked then anglers who buck tail and or use large teaser hooks and big gulp baits. I think that's a safe assumption but who knows!

[dales529]

Thanks for the responses. I am still calling BS here but will defer to PB Capts or mates as I cant see 10 dead fluke per trip and I know they are catching at least 100 shorts. One or three maybe and don't think it doesn't come off our quota as it does!

[dales529]

Okay. Now who will spend the money to finance another scientific survey to determine the new percentage of fluke mortality? Will the Feds do it? Will it be privately financed? Will it be done quickly and expeditiously? Will it lower the size limits? The answer to all of the questions is the same.

The hook size thread came up before. Some people still swear by smaller hooks. Some don't.

Here's the real question. Does anyone remember a time when there were not enough fluke to support a recreational and commercial fishery? Here's one more to chew on. Who asked the Feds to step in....the recs or the commercials or no one at all?


Billfish715: It all started here (link below) and probably at the time for good intentions as Fish stocks showed signs of decline which we all know was true. The reasons are up for debate.
Who asked the feds to step in its us the American voter.
Since then:
We (RFA and others) have been fighting hard for MSA Re-Authorization since the data doesn't reflect the stocks and will continue the fight, Until then it is what it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Stevens_Fishery_Conservation_and_ Management_Act

[SaltLife1980]

Two words. Bait Draggers!! :eek::D