Fluke Hook Size

[Billfish715]

The original thread about fluke season touched on some sensitive and controversial issues. One of those issues was about quotas and the formulas that are used to determine those quotas. An element that is used in the equation is the mortality ( dead fish) ratio of those fluke that are released.

The science estimates the mortality rate to be about 10% based on current fishing size regulations and fishing practices. This study done by FDU recommends using larger ( up to 9/0 ) hooks to reduce mortality. Their study seems to indicate that larger hooks will catch larger fish while reducing the number of smaller fish which would have to be released and possibly die. Using smaller hooks will catch more fish including many more undersized fish. The more undersized fish that are caught and released increases the number of fish that will die. Fewer released fish means fewer dead fish. If the mortality rate is decreased, the formula to create a quota shifts in our favor. Those released fish ( 10% mortality) are credited to the recreational total of caught fish.

If using bigger hooks means less mortality and less mortality means that we can have more reasonable size and bag limit, then I'm for using bigger hooks even though I use 6/0 hooks now.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/511cdc7fe4b00307a2628ac6/t/5535426de4b0fc1dd6800f5f/1429553773399/09_SF+Bycatch+Combined.pdf

[RussH]

Fluke have humongous mouths but a 9/0 hook seems crazy. I know there's a guy here who gets lot of heat because he proudly dead sticks size 4 hooks but he claims next to no gut hooks. I'd say a 4/0 to 6/0 is reasonable and those mortality numbers are more due to mishandling than anything else. I can't remember the last time I gut hooked a fish that wasn't a keeper in that size range.

[shrimpman steve]

I use 8/0 and 9/0. If you think they're to big your wrong:D

Even a 15 inch fish will take a hook that large with no problem.

[Billfish715]

The idea of using larger hooks to reduce mortality has merit. If we can show a reduction of fish mortality, we might have a better argument to change our fluke regulations to something more reasonable.

[arat]

I usually use minimum 6/0 I have used as large as 8/0 not sure I've jumped to 9/0 yet. They eat the 6-7/0 just fine

[fishguy]

A 9/0 seems pretty yuge for fluke but whatever floats your boat. 5/0 octopus is my personal go-to hook.

If you really want to cut down on fluke mortality than don't use English bend hooks. Absolute worst hooks ever.

Cue the outraged flukers....

[Capt John]

Want to reduce the amount of gut hooked Fluke?....bucktails! Ever since I've fished with them exclusively on Fluke trips, the overwhelming majority of fish hooked have been in the corner of the mouth and nowhere near the gullet. Sure they cost more than your plain-jane rig that you drag along the bottom, but something has to give if you are sincere about preserving the species. And, as a added bonus, it's a hell of a lot more fun once you learn the technique.

[MrAC1980]

Yep I just went to bucktails not long ago too and haven't looked back. But I think this question can be said about teaser hook size too. I'm also in the 6/0 club except when I go to MA then I step up to 8/0.

[bunker dunker]

bucktails save lives!!!!!

[bulletbob]

Bucktails make sense if you want less mortality from deep hooked shorts.. much less damage done, and very effective.. Bait guys can just put a spearing, killie or squid strip on if it makes them feel better..
You don't need $7 each bucktails either. Plain Jane's work just fine, including unpainted leadheads with a plastic tail or Gulp... bob

[frugalfisherman]

I think the type of hook is more important than size. I use octopus hooks 5/0 which are more likely to slide back out a fishes throat than a straight hook. Also pay attention. If you sit there day dreaming while the fish swallows the hook that's no good. If I catch 1000 fluke over the summer I doubt if I gut hook more than 5.

[MVP]

Bucktails save fluke
I have been bucktailing for about 20 years now. Last year on th HH was the first time I had to switch to bait as the tide starts to rip up there that even with 8-10 oz Bucktails it is hard to hold especially when you are on the side of the boat were you can not cast out. I never enjoyed fluke fishing that much until I started to Bucktail

[shrimpman steve]

Take an 8/0 or 9/0. Used with a six inch grub the point comes out of the grub midway. The rest of the hook is hidden in the grub

[Irish Jigger]

Neither my father or myself have EVER killed a short fluke with a bucktails since we started many years ago. Have torn some lips and put a few hooks thru the eyes but every short has swam right back to the bottom!!! Want to stop killing fluke stop dragging bait.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I'll weigh in here.....

- IMHO the old English style hooks should not be used.... A lot of gut hooked fish for most guys who drag bait, especially if you are not intently working and watching your pole. Use a larger Octopus hook as mentioned above. 6/0 at a minimum.

- If you are bucktailing I would assume you are tending your pole and paying attention. Bucktails are proven large fluke magnets.... I would bet you that more then 80% of all large tournament winners are caught this way. So, large Fluke = large hook that goes further back on your long strip bait or gulp increasing your odds of the fish taking the hook and avoiding short strike where they take your bait and miss the hook. Most fish are caught on the teaser hook so large hook on the teaser as well, 6/0 minimum.

Lastly I've seen even the smallest of Fluke take on 6/0 through 9/0 hook no problem so why would you use something smaller then that?

[Sharkyispy]

Want to reduce the amount of gut hooked Fluke?....bucktails! Ever since I've fished with them exclusively on Fluke trips, the overwhelming majority of fish hooked have been in the corner of the mouth and nowhere near the gullet. Sure they cost more than your plain-jane rig that you drag along the bottom, but something has to give if you are sincere about preserving the species. And, as a added bonus, it's a hell of a lot more fun once you learn the technique.

Great post. As many have said, different sizes for different guyses (crickets). Seriously anything from 2oz up should be a 7/0 or larger hook on your bucktails ( Depending on mold and maker) and how I make and use. I can't recall the last gut hooked, bucktailed fluke I have had as it really just doesn't happen. Occasionally and rarely I might have a teaser with a 4/0 to 6/0 hook on dropper loop inhaled a little deeper but still able to reach from gills and not cause mortality.

[ALS Mako]

1/0 treble. haven't gut hooked a fish yet.;)

[Billfish715]

The report/study targeted J Hooks and an additional study was to be done with kahle ( English bend) hooks. I dislike too much governmental intrusions and unnecessary and wide ranging regulations but if using a certain size and style hook reduces mortality, I'm for it. The object is to prove to fisheries' scientists that we have cut back on the number of dead fish that they use to create our size and bag limits.

I might remind you that circle hooks only may be used in sections of the Delaware River when fishing for striped bass. Some folks don't like it but the goal is clear.

Using larger hooks is one way to improve fluke mortality rates but careful
handling of a fish before its release is another. Many party boat patrons as well as many private boat fishermen only know how to drag bait........and they catch fish. They are entitled to their own style of fishing and I doubt that there is a charter captain who would turn down a customer's request to use bait.

I'm not sure how some of the sponsors who operate bait and tackle stores would feel if they couldn't sell bait. Bucktails are fun to use but they are not for everyone as evidenced by the big fluke that are caught every season by someone dragging a squid and killie. My point is, again, this study indicates that using bigger hooks catches fewer small fish and thereby reduces the number of throwbacks that will eventually die because of the removal of deeply impaled hooks. Big hooks come out easier and make safe releases more likely.

[Bucktailboys.com]

bucktails save lives!!!!!

Very true!!!

[stevelikes2fish]

I use 8/0 and 9/0. If you think they're to big your wrong:D

Even a 15 inch fish will take a hook that large with no problem.

Been using an 8/0 teaser hook for the last 3 seasons. You are 100% correct about the small fish being able to get hooked. Easy release too.

[bunker dunker]

I agree with Gerry,its all about paying attention when your dragging bait.i have watched peeps drag a fluke around for 20 minutes before reeling it in and wounder why the hook is all the way down in its guts.you don't have to
let the fluke eat for that long.yes there are days when they need a little extra time but like we all have said they have a big mouth.swing on them and if ya miss keep working the bait as they due tend to come back.

[Fisherman120]

7/0-8/0 is perfect a for a grub or 6 inch mullet. 6/0 fits it good too but is better for 5 inch mullets. In the bay/shallow water with smaller gulp I'll use 4-5/0.

[RussH]

So... I also see people on party boats VERY successfully working 1.5 to 2oz bucktails on ultralight rods with 10# test and those are what, 3/0?

But like has been said bucktailling is what seems to be the real answer for reduced mortality but it's also not something you can just hand out a rental rod and have people do. So maybe the real answer here is bait draggers should be using 9/0 hooks and don't deadstick for fluke regardless?

[BCinerie]

7/0 to 10/0 they got big mouths!!!

[Fisherman120]

While were on the topic of fluke hooks does anybody know where you can purchase baitholder hooks in bulk for cheap?

[RussH]

While were on the topic of fluke hooks does anybody know where you can purchase baitholder hooks in bulk for cheap?

I know it's the easy answer but 25 packs of Gamakatsu hooks on amazon tend to be 10 to 15 percent cheaper than the brick and mortars.

[Gerry Zagorski]

So... I also see people on party boats VERY successfully working 1.5 to 2oz bucktails on ultralight rods with 10# test and those are what, 3/0?

But like has been said bucktailling is what seems to be the real answer for reduced mortality but it's also not something you can just hand out a rental rod and have people do. So maybe the real answer here is bait draggers should be using 9/0 hooks and don't deadstick for fluke regardless?

The difference is those people bucktailing are tending their poles and they feel the strike....Its immistakeable. You get a strike and you feel it because you are in direct constant contact with the bucktail and teaser and your bait.

Much more difficult to detect strike when bait dragging. You got the sinker between you and your bait.

[mike1010]

I know it's the easy answer but 25 packs of Gamakatsu hooks on amazon tend to be 10 to 15 percent cheaper than the brick and mortars.

The brick and mortars that are site sponsors?

[RussH]

The brick and mortars that are site sponsors?

To be fair... he asked. I shop at the sponsors also. Spread the love so to speak.

[Fisherman120]

The brick and mortars that are site sponsors?

Do people really need to make a fuss about anything? I support local shops but when I go through 50+ hooks a year fishing rocks I'm not going to bother with a retail price. I'm going to be buying from Palmers anyways who is a sponsor as I see he now supplies hooks which he didn't in the past.

[Capt Sal]

Do people really need to make a fuss about anything? I support local shops but when I go through 50+ hooks a year fishing rocks I'm not going to bother with a retail price. I'm going to be buying from Palmers anyways who is a sponsor as I see he now supplies hooks which he didn't in the past.

One bass season when we were covered up with blues for two months i went thru 4000 8-0 j hooks lol We all use the local sponsor bait and tackle shops.

[ALS Mako]

Much more difficult to detect strike when bait dragging. You got the sinker between you and your bait.

i have to disagree with you on that Gerry. we all bait fished before the bucktailing trend became hot. if you were bouncing your sinkers with the drift you could feel every pick up. it's those that actually let their sinkers drag that don't feel bites. proper fishing tecnique no matter what style dictates how and what you catch. just my two cents

[reason162]

It's not the hook size, it's the rig. If your hook is dragging behind the weight, you will frequently gut hook fish (esp if you're a rental rod). Look at any of John Skinner's underwater videos and you'll see how far a fluke will glide along the bottom, swimming with the sinker while eating your bait.

If your hook is above the weight (dropper loop/dropshot), you will gut hook very few fish, and many times they will hook themselves. Again, refer to the underwater videos, and notice how fluke that hit the top hook will try to head back to bottom asap.

Now the bucktail hook is attached to the weight, so even better.

I would really like to see an experiment done on one of our party boat sponsors: rig up a single dropper loop for one side of the boat for all the rental rods; the rest use traditional 3-way or fish finder rigs. Compare gut hook rates and catch rates. My feeling is once that water hits the right temp, dropper loop will outcatch by a wide margin, esp in slow/no drift conditions.

[mikeytheflop]

I think the type of hook is more important than size. I use octopus hooks 5/0 which are more likely to slide back out a fishes throat than a straight hook. Also pay attention. If you sit there day dreaming while the fish swallows the hook that's no good. If I catch 1000 fluke over the summer I doubt if I gut hook more than 5.

I'm with Frugal here, as well as a few others. Its the technique, made up of a lot of jigging activity on my part and paying attention. I've landed my biggest fluke using octopus 2/0 hooks and same for me: 1,000 fish and gut hooking <5.

[SaltLife1980]

Its all in the way you fish. I went to jigging 4 years ago and have not looked back. I use 6/0 or 7/0 hooks for my teasers.

[Arbutis]

#4 red Gamakatsu

[makosnax]

If you're gonna drag bait, set the hook before it comes out of its @ss. I cringe when I hear " I'm gonna let him take it for a while so I know he's got it"