Fluke Season is Open

[Billfish715]

These are smaller than some of the river fish I've caught. They were for sale in a local market. Notice the price on the sign which also indicates the place of origin or capture. Size limits or no size limits, these are fish that any of us would have voluntarily released. They were (at best) 13"! You can't tell me that at the price per pound, the commercial guys are not making a living! It's no wonder why the commercial fishing lobby is so determined to hold on to its share of the fluke quota!

The commercial fishery will get its share of the quota no matter how many fish they catch to get them there. Imagine how many fish of this 12" size they will take to make their quota. Unfortunately, if they threw those fish back, the fish would die anyhow.

The biggest obstacle for us (the recreational fishermen) to overcome is the fact that our quotas are nebulous. They can never be accurately measured and can only be determined by a conceived formula. Whether we meet a prescribed quota or not can't be accurately measured; whereas the commercial quota can be gauged by the required recorded weights at each of the commercial fishing co ops.

So the argument goes on. The recreational fishermen have no process to legitimately record the total weight of their catch and therefore there is no way to accurately determine how many fish they caught. As a result, the scientists can only estimate how many fluke were taken. The fear is that if the recreational fishermen catch too many fish there will be fewer for the commercial guys to harvest and therefore there is a threat they will make less money.

It's a vicious circle. One last observation is that the fluke that were for sale in the picture at best might have weighed one pound. In order to "monger" one pound of fillets, several fish would have to be cut up to fill the bill. How is any of this "conservation"? Establishing a larger size limit on commercial fluke would ensure more small fluke would be spared while still maintaining the same poundage quota with a smaller amount of fish being harvested. Wouldn't that be conservation? Isn't it better to harvest fewer fish which are larger and weigh more in order to promote the growth of more and bigger fluke? Or, if the fisheries managers are intent on conservation. then decrease the commercial quota of fluke. The reduction in quota tonnage would allow fewer fish to be harvested and in that way it would increase the fluke population.

It makes sense to me but what do I know? I'm not a scientist.

[Blackfish Doug]

I know what your looking at but those fish were probably 14" those trays they are laying over are either 8" or 10" wide. I know this makes you angry when you see the size of those fish because there was a time when you could keep fish this size legally & people did. I'm not against fish being kept at that size as long as they don't go over their limit poundage. If they throw back that fish after it's being caught all it's going to do is die. This is a copy of what they can keep legally nowhere in do I see a size limit. But think about it for second during Jan & Feb they are only allowed 2500 lbs a day or 5000 lbs a week. If your lucky enough to reach your poundage if the weather lets you & that's if your lucky add it up. 5000lb week limit at a average of about $ 2.00 to $3.00 a pound don't forget that commercial guy is not getting $12.99 a pound. That fish passed through at least 2 vendors before it reach's the market & everybody is getting a profit. So the person gets anywhere from $10,000 to 15,000 if they reach their limit remember it's hard to reach that number try it once & you will know what I mean. Now divide that number by 7 because that's your weekly limit. It's not much money when you add up your costs gas ,insurance,dockage, crews expense plus repairs. Did you ever look at the people who do this for a living? they are far from living great I don't see them driving Mercedes or Bentley's. Imagine having no sick days or holidays off working with broken arms busted fingers they do it it's not a great life. Our enemy is not the commercial guy it's the government who rules on our quota's. If both the fisherman & commercial guy can only get together on this more can be done. There are more recreational fisherman then commercial fisherman by a long shot. This is the website do the math add it up & think about more about the profit because it's not as great as you think.
http://njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/2015/marlet-smrflndr_quota2015.pdf

[nmc02]

I love fluck

[Gerry Zagorski]

The commercials are allowed to fish all year right? Not sure when Fluke spawn but maybe they should be closed to fishing during that time?

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I'm certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.

[hammer4reel]

commercial guys average 3.50 per pound.
they get 4.50 a pound for the fish that are over 5 pounds.

funny how we recs want to complain about having to kep all the larger fish which are females.
yet when the commercial guys quoata is most made up of male fish we still complain.

as Doug said , its more about us working together to create a stronger resource.


At the current trend the government is looking to get paid for every fish in the ocean, if its catch shares program ever gets through.
that will be the end of everything as we know it

[Capt Sal]

The commercials are allowed to fish all year right? Not sure when Fluke spawn but maybe they should be closed to fishing during that time?

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.
Fluke spawn off shore in the winter.Go to the Belford Co Op and you can see what they bring in. Hughe fluke that need to spawn.We can keep one weak fish but look in the co op and you will see monster breeders that came out of the pound nets.If they didn't keep the small fluke the by catch kill would be ridiculous. Although commercial fishermen are not our enemy ,they could care less about the recreational fishermen. Teaming up with the commercials and bringing this to the high courts will never work. Hammer is on the money saying ''catch shares'' will be the end of recreational fishing as we know it. I would hope all the discussions about this will help to educate some of the newer people getting into our sport.

[NoLimit]

Keep whistling past the graveyard. I am sick and tire hearing that its not the commercial fishing fault. There are no more flounder, the weaks are gone, whiting are gone, ling and fluke are disappearing too while everyone sits on their hands. Yes, stripers are much better than they used to be and thats what makes it so hard to understand why we cant do anything about fishing during the other 10 months of the year.

One or two more seasons of this and I am out of here along with the money I spend on slips, fuel, bait, tackle, meals and housing.

[tautog]

No more flounder?...*LFAO* Plenty of flounder, just not people fishing for them due to the regs.

[Billfish715]

This quota and size limit system is supposed to be about conservation, I think. Recreational fishermen are able to practice catch and release while commercial netters are not. After being dragged around in the cod portion of an otter trawl, very few fish are going to survive and be returned to the sea. Even though the mesh sizes were increased to help smaller fish escape through the net, once the cod end starts filling with fish, even the small fish don't make it out. The other side of the argument is that many of the recreationally caught fluke don't survive either due to improper handling or hook removal.

We all have opinions about the condition of the fluke fishery and of its future. I've been fishing for fluke for over sixty years and there has never been a time when there were no fluke to be caught. That includes the many years when there were no regulations. I agree that there should be some form of monitoring of the fishery and that there should be education about the importance of conservation. Fishing alone will not destroy the fluke population. My opinion is that it would take something cataclysmic to destroy the fluke fishery like disease or destruction of breeding grounds, habitat, or forage. But again, that's just my opinion.

Recreational and Commercial fishermen have the same interest. No one wants to see the fluke stock disappear and jealousy among fishing groups is not an answer to our problem. An equal share in the harvest should be our goal. Unity within the ranks of both the commercial and recreational groups will go a long way to reach that goal. There are plenty of fluke to go around.

My suggestions about the commercial industry were based on some observations. By dropping their quotas, fewer fish would be harvested and therefore the price of the fish would be increased by supply and demand. The fewer fish for sale means that both the wholesale and retail prices increase. By flooding the market with more fish, the prices will decrease. The economic value of the fish will dictate how the conservation of the fishery will or will not work.

It's a controversial issue for sure, but it is not all doom and gloom as some will have us think. Being controlled and seemingly ignored by the government agencies has been everyone's complaint. It's time for everyone to get on the same page and put our fears and goals on the table and come to a consensus.

[bulletbob]

I know what your looking at but those fish were probably 14" those trays they are laying over are either 8" or 10" wide. I know this makes you angry when you see the size of those fish because there was a time when you could keep fish this size legally & people did. I'm not against fish being kept at that size as long as they don't go over their limit poundage. If they throw back that fish after it's being caught all it's going to do is die. This is a copy of what they can keep legally nowhere in do I see a size limit. But think about it for second during Jan & Feb they are only allowed 2500 lbs a day or 5000 lbs a week. If your lucky enough to reach your poundage if the weather lets you & that's if your lucky add it up. 5000lb week limit at a average of about $ 2.00 to $3.00 a pound don't forget that commercial guy is not getting $12.99 a pound. That fish passed through at least 2 vendors before it reach's the market & everybody is getting a profit. So the person gets anywhere from $10,000 to 15,000 if they reach their limit remember it's hard to reach that number try it once & you will know what I mean. Now divide that number by 7 because that's your weekly limit. It's not much money when you add up your costs gas ,insurance,dockage, crews expense plus repairs. Did you ever look at the people who do this for a living? they are far from living great I don't see them driving Mercedes or Bentley's. Imagine having no sick days or holidays off working with broken arms busted fingers they do it it's not a great life. Our enemy is not the commercial guy it's the government who rules on our quota's. If both the fisherman & commercial guy can only get together on this more can be done. There are more recreational fisherman then commercial fisherman by a long shot. This is the website do the math add it up & think about more about the profit because it's not as great as you think.
http://njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/2015/marlet-smrflndr_quota2015.pdf

With all due respect.. If there's no or little money, than get out,, Very simple.. Hell, I drove a damn school bus and most of the drivers I work with are over 30 k a year, and a few are in the 50-60 K range.. If these poor souls that fish commercially are driving rusted out junk, living in shacks, and have no health insurance, get the hell out, and do something else.. We'll put them to work up here starting at $15 an hour, top benefits, pension, and TONS of time off.. Must be similar work in NJ, another big union state... Personally I don't buy the "poverty wages" shtick... If things are that bad and these guys are not eating well, can't afford a doctor, can't pay for gas and slip, they need to GET OUT and leave the fish in the ocean... Sorry, money, BIG money is being made, or there would be no commercial fishing glut as we have today.... bob

[Billfish715]

There is no doubt that there are many large fish which are discarded by the commercials draggers once their quota is filled. There is video of large fluke being thrown back, dead, by a commercial dragger once his quota was filled. Small fish become large fish eventually, except for the males. Whether a commercial fisherman or a recreational fisherman harvests those fish should not make a difference. In my opinion, charter boats are in the commercial business too. This has been argued before. Charter captains should be able to get their fair share of the pot for their customers as well. How do you explain to fishermen who only want to have fun and take home some fish, that they have to throw practically everything back even though they paid more money to fish than they would spend in a supermarket for a fish dinner? When and "if" there is a decline in the fluke population, then, perhaps, regulations like we have now, should be imposed. Right now, leave it alone. If we drop the size limits it would mean we would be catching more of the male fish which would seem to be to your point about taking the pressure off the reproductive larger females. Fishing for smaller males along the beaches takes pressure off the larger females in the deeper, sticky places. If you are looking for bigger fish then go there. If not, leave them alone and fish for the table, inshore where we have always fished for them.

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I'm certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.[/QUOTE]

[dakota560]

No more flounder?...*LFAO* Plenty of flounder, just not people fishing for them due to the regs.
There is no where near the numbers of flounder there used to be, not even close. Don't know if it's commercial, commorants whatever but years ago that fishery was incredible. You'd catch all sizes as well in the spring from postage stamps to jumbos, sign of a very healthy fishery. I don't think today's fishery is 10% of what it was and that's after what 6 or 7 basically closed seasons. Are there flounder around if you target them yes, but to suggest it's what it was remotely is absolutely not true.

[dakota560]

Problem with commercial isn't simply what's allowed, it's the black market illegal netting which I would venture to say takes probably more than the guys who abide by the rules. The numbers have to be staggering. Recreational will never deplete a fishery ever. Commercial will and has repeatedly. Add government involvement and motivations and we have a crisis on our hands. Not sure what the answer is if there is one. World is becoming overpopulated and people need to eat and greedy politicians need their kick backs. The only reason stripers made a came back is there was a ban in most states commercially. If you want to conduct a test, open up stripers to commercial netting in every state and I guarantee you that fishery will collapse like it did in the 80's in a few years. Can't be sustained, especially an inshore species with a north / south migration. Technology is too advanced and migratory patterns are too predictable. We have an 18 inch limit and commercial guys can keep 13 inch fish that retail sells for 12.99 lb! With that price tag, don't care how many hands it passes through or who ultimately makes a profit the fishery will never rebound.

[NoLimit]

No more flounder?...*LFAO* Plenty of flounder, just not people fishing for them due to the regs.

Speak for yourself. There are plenty of us who remember what winter flounder was like in the rivers and bay in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's. I have been out twice this year in ideal conditions meaning right water temp, outgoing tide, sunny day plus pulled out all the stops with chum, corn and plunger.

Not One Hit!!! They are pretty much gone.

[june181901]

Capt. Sal: A friend of mine who owns a commercial license but hasn't used it in two decades told me the pound nets will soon be a thing of the past in NJ. As the owners of pound net permits leave this earth the permits go with them and are not reissued. At least this will alleviate some of the commercial pressure on the resources.
I hope what he told me is accurate.

[RussH]

Decrease the quota and let them raise prices. Recreational anglers should have their size limit adjusted back down also. I can't wait to see the results of the SSFFF study. We're murdering breeders and tossing back perfectly good eating fish for no reason as the commercials laugh to the bank. Yeah the deck hands may not be rolling in cash but the owners I'm not crying for.

[Blackfish Doug]

With all due respect.. If there's no or little money, than get out,, Very simple.. Hell, I drove a damn school bus and most of the drivers I work with are over 30 k a year, and a few are in the 50-60 K range.. If these poor souls that fish commercially are driving rusted out junk, living in shacks, and have no health insurance, get the hell out, and do something else.. We'll put them to work up here starting at $15 an hour, top benefits, pension, and TONS of time off.. Must be similar work in NJ, another big union state... Personally I don't buy the "poverty wages" shtick... If things are that bad and these guys are not eating well, can't afford a doctor, can't pay for gas and slip, they need to GET OUT and leave the fish in the ocean... Sorry, money, BIG money is being made, or there would be no commercial fishing glut as we have today.... bob

Sorry Bob your not going to get any sympathy from me I know what it's like I lived it. As far as that $15 an hour that's a big BS I lost my job 10 years ago. I have a great resume & in the last 10 years I couldn't come close to making those $15 an hour wages that you claim are out there. I have no medical insurance & thank god my wife does & 60% comes out of her pay. I have not taken a vacation in over 10 years because time off is no pay. How about using Christmas,New Years Day & Easter as days you got to make up there are no paid holidays at my job. You see there are no jobs out there tons of time off as you claim. I know if there was work out there giving you $15,top benefits, & tons of time off sign me up I will be there tomorrow. Ask anybody who graduates from college & ask them if they wouldn't take that. I don't know where you got that from but it's not from this state & that's for sure. You obviously don't know anybody in the business & overate the job market in a big way. And by the way I did give quite a few School bus company's my resume as well & I never heard the phone ring once. I live a drug free life & have a good driving record as well. Right now I'm too old to do this type of work but when I first lost my job I would have taken that position in a heart beat. Right now I'm happy just to have a job & I'm glad that I had somebody out there that was willing to hire me. Thank god it was not in the commercial fishing industry but the benefits are the same. I would love to see you work a commercial boat for 2 weeks & see what it's like . The grass is not always greener on the other side.

[Blackfish Doug]

Decrease the quota and let them raise prices. Recreational anglers should have their size limit adjusted back down also. I can't wait to see the results of the SSFFF study. We're murdering breeders and tossing back perfectly good eating fish for no reason as the commercials laugh to the bank. Yeah the deck hands may not be rolling in cash but the owners I'm not crying for.

I agree with you 100% but most of the people who own the businesses own them for a very long time. And most of them have been handed down for many generations. It's always been the middle man who makes the money it's been that way my whole life. BTW those fish look like they have been on Ice for quite some time it looks like there are not too many people looking to buy the Fluck at $12.99 a pound.

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Recreational will never deplete a fishery ever.

One of the few who get it!

Rod and reel will never deplete a fishery.

[NoLimit]

Let them eat Tilapia and farm raised Salmon. Regs have to change to make it hook and line fishing only for fluke and flounder.

[bulletbob]

Sorry Bob your not going to get any sympathy from me I know what it's like I lived it. As far as that $15 an hour that's a big BS I lost my job 10 years ago. I have a great resume & in the last 10 years I couldn't come close to making those $15 an hour wages that you claim are out there. I have no medical insurance & thank god my wife does & 60% comes out of her pay. I have not taken a vacation in over 10 years because time off is no pay. How about using Christmas,New Years Day & Easter as days you got to make up there are no paid holidays at my job. You see there are no jobs out there tons of time off as you claim. I know if there was work out there giving you $15,top benefits, & tons of time off sign me up I will be there tomorrow. Ask anybody who graduates from college & ask them if they wouldn't take that. I don't know where you got that from but it's not from this state & that's for sure. You obviously don't know anybody in the business & overate the job market in a big way. And by the way I did give quite a few School bus company's my resume as well & I never heard the phone ring once. I live a drug free life & have a good driving record as well. Right now I'm too old to do this type of work but when I first lost my job I would have taken that position in a heart beat. Right now I'm happy just to have a job & I'm glad that I had somebody out there that was willing to hire me. Thank god it was not in the commercial fishing industry but the benefits are the same. I would love to see you work a commercial boat for 2 weeks & see what it's like . The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I would not work on a commercial boat.. From what you write, its just above abject poverty level.. I was making $15 an hour when I left Forked River in 1991 and I am NOT a very skilled person. If someone in NJ can't make close to that in 2016 there are problems I am not aware of. I live in a depressed area of NY state the looks like a soviet era eastern bloc territory.. Its no problem making $15 or more an hour here if you can drive a truck or bus, turn a wrench or hammer a nail.. Please don't try and tell me the economy is better here, thats nonsense.. Its been poor here for decades.

If someone that works on a commercial boat can't eat or pay bills, they can make $12-13 an hour stocking shelves at Lowe;s or Home Depot.. I refuse to believe the situation is as dire as you say.. I am uneducated and poorly skilled and these days half crippled, and I make that much, and even entry level bus drivers start at $14+ an hour here... Is NJ REALLY that much worse off than NY state??.. Hard to believe..

[NoLimit]

Bullet Bob - The problem in NJ is that hardly anyone knows which end of a hammer to hold.

Everyone that is laid off went to college and worked for ATT or Verizon or J&J and they were Directors of Hand Holding, Meetings, and Coddling. They lost those cushy jobs and now they are "overqualified"

[pectoralfin]

The 14" commercial size has been the same for more than 10 years. Why?
Because the filets are just the correct size for the food service industry. When the feds calculate the allowable catch for the recreational sector, they factor in an estimate for the mortality of the released fish which, again, lowers the quota. If they did that for the commercial sector, their quota would be zero! By catch is a big problem, but why not use the same criteria for both? If any of you have been surveyed, you know what a joke it is. A five year old could put together a better survey.

The feds love this infighting because it takes the spotlight off of them and puts it on us. People hate when I claim that the commercial and recreational fishermen have the same goals. They make a living from fishing, we do it as a sport but we want to bring something home. We have something in common.

Perfect example. The feds calculated that the recreational fishery is a 58 billion dollar industry and the commercial is a 50 billion dollar industry. But if you read the second page of that report, the feds added in 30 billion dollars which is the value of all the seafood imported, thus the commercial impact is only 20 billion dollars. That's the government for you, treating everyone fair and equally,and it will only get worse.

[bulletbob]

Bullet Bob - The problem in NJ is that hardly anyone knows which end of a hammer to hold.

Everyone that is laid off went to college and worked for ATT or Verizon or J&J and they were Directors of Hand Holding, Meetings, and Coddling. They lost those cushy jobs and now they are "overqualified"

Got it,, I can accept that... I was'nt trying to be a prick toward Blackfish Doug.. Just expressing my feelings that if the commercial guys are struggling, there are other options for hard working, resourceful guys.. If they stick it out year after year, they MUST be making money,. In this day and age, in a modern cosmopolitan place like NJ, I don't buy the "love of the sea" thing.. A man[or woman] has to eat and pay bills, for himself and his family. These guys are scraping the sea bottom to death because there is still money in it.. If there really isn't money in it, and they are going broke, they really can't be very bright... bob

[Capt Sal]

Fact is that when the"commercial" bunker boats devastate our menhaden in the bay there is big money made. I give two shits what the mates get! Anyone could be a mate on a purse siener. If there was no money in it they would not be doing it. Killing stripers,weakfish and god only knows what else. Gill netters set up on Shrewsbury Rocks and kill stripers that are thrown back dead. All of this to bring a few blues to market and some skates. I should have respect or feel sorry for these people? Millions of juvenile ling and whiting floating in the mud hole? These are the people i should feel sorry for? Hook and line or cast nets will never deplete any fishery!
The reduction boats are also making a killing. Killing the menhaden and lining there pockets! Fact is they have more power and money. Who cares what the mates or let us call them deck hands make per hour. They are raping the fish stocks and getting rich in the process! The local Commercial fishermen use to blame all this on foreing countries fishing as close as 12 miles. Well now we have a 200 mile limit and no Russians or Japanese. Who do we blame now? There are some younger people on this site that will never have the opportunity to experience what us '' older guy'' had.We have to fight for the right to harvest a few fish for our use. Can't make 15$ an hour in NJ commercial fishing??? Illegal aliens make that as day laborers in NJ.

[Togfather2530]

All this talk about wages lol. It's supposed to be about fishing. I made 81$ an hour on contract last week lmfao. JOB stands for just over broke. If you really want to make money and are ambitious enough you can. A job is usually not the best approach though. There is money in any business including charter boats, party boats, and commercial fisherman. Some do better than others though. :cool: funny to read though

[Blackfish Doug]

Got it,, I can accept that... I was'nt trying to be a prick toward Blackfish Doug.. Just expressing my feelings that if the commercial guys are struggling, there are other options for hard working, resourceful guys.. If they stick it out year after year, they MUST be making money,. In this day and age, in a modern cosmopolitan place like NJ, I don't buy the "love of the sea" thing.. A man[or woman] has to eat and pay bills, for himself and his family. These guys are scraping the sea bottom to death because there is still money in it.. If there really isn't money in it, and they are going broke, they really can't be very bright... bob

Bob I don't think that you were being a prick to me. Just that it hit me at home when you made the statement about how good the job market was out there & it's not. When I first lost my Job everybody told me the same thing you were saying go to home depot,Lowes etc. I don't know if you noticed lately not as many older people are being hired there anymore.They have guidelines to the amount of people in the age group they have to hire.Also the hours that are being given out are not enough just so they don't have to offer you the medical benefits, paid holidays plus vacation.This practice is going on in a lot of company's that hire the entry level employees. The older you get the less opportunity is out there. Age discrimination is going going on in a major way now. Most of the people who work in my age group are doing it to make up for the supplemental insurance we have to pay for & that's not cheap. I know that there is money in the commercial fishing industry. But it's not as great as people think & the people in the middle are the people making the money not the actual people who catch the fish. Some of what I don't like is the pinhooking for Fluke. The 14" Fluke was meant for the offshore Fluke fishery not the inshore rod & reel commercial fishery. The pinhookers can release 14" Fluke to live another day. I believe the inshore fishery should be the same as ours. If we can only keep 18" fish for rod & reel they should as well. I'm not in favor of the abuse in that industry as well. But there are plenty of fish for everyone to share these days. It's the regulations that are hurting everyone plus the areas we no longer can fish in that hold the fish. Here in the great USA we have no go zones for fisherman something that I guess were going to have get used to.

[Blackfish Doug]

[QUOTE=pectoralfin;439782]The 14" commercial size has been the same for more than 10 years. Why?
Because the filets are just the correct size for the food service industry.
That may sound true but this size limit was not designed for that it was for mortality. The offshore people should be able to keep whatever they get nothing survives that goes back. If they could just catch their weight quota & go back in it would serve everyone better. Read my post about Pinhooking rod & reel commercial fishing that's where it needs to be corrected. 14" fish should not be allowed to be kept by commercial pinhookers. The 14" fish can be released & survive to live another day. I also believe that the live fish should not be able to be kept. Look at Capt Monty all the blackfish caught & being kept on his boat must be bled. I also believe he does not allow any live fish to be kept for consumption. Bait fishing is different that can be kept alive. Cut out the live fishing altogether & just see how much everything improves.

[NoLimit]

Fact is that when the"commercial" bunker boats devastate our menhaden in the bay there is big money made. I give two shits what the mates get! Anyone could be a mate on a purse siener. If there was no money in it they would not be doing it. Killing stripers,weakfish and god only knows what else. Gill netters set up on Shrewsbury Rocks and kill stripers that are thrown back dead. All of this to bring a few blues to market and some skates. I should have respect or feel sorry for these people? Millions of juvenile ling and whiting floating in the mud hole? These are the people i should feel sorry for? Hook and line or cast nets will never deplete any fishery!
The reduction boats are also making a killing. Killing the menhaden and lining there pockets! Fact is they have more power and money. Who cares what the mates or let us call them deck hands make per hour. They are raping the fish stocks and getting rich in the process! The local Commercial fishermen use to blame all this on foreing countries fishing as close as 12 miles. Well now we have a 200 mile limit and no Russians or Japanese. Who do we blame now? There are some younger people on this site that will never have the opportunity to experience what us '' older guy'' had.We have to fight for the right to harvest a few fish for our use. Can't make 15$ an hour in NJ commercial fishing??? Illegal aliens make that as day laborers in NJ.


Worth Repeating! and anyone that sides with commercial draggers deserves to catch nothing.

[seazu]

worth repeating! And anyone that sides with commercial draggers deserves to catch nothing.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!amen!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bhackemup]

It seems a little harsh to wish something bad on anyone who happens to have a different view on something that IS, perfectly legal. Commercial fishermen actually feed people and I would certainly prefer a fluke fillet when I go out to eat rather than a poison piece of TALAPIA!

[NoLimit]

It seems a little harsh to wish something bad on anyone who happens to have a different view on something that IS, perfectly legal. Commercial fishermen actually feed people and I would certainly prefer a fluke fillet when I go out to eat rather than a poison piece of TALAPIA!

Sorry but you are wrong. Commercial fishermen destroy fisheries and habitat.

And there is nothing wrong with farm raised fish if it follows basic rules. Considering the prices they charge, there is no reason why they cant make perfectly edible food and they do.

[bhackemup]

I know people who show complete disdain for commercial fishermen insist that the ocean bottom is destroyed whenever a net is dragged over it. Please explain to me then why, since drag nets were first used, has the area south of the Hudson Canyon between 45 and 60 fathoms been so productive till this day during the winter months? The Klondike and Manasquan ridge get dragged every fall yet the fluke seem to hit those same spots every year. (Don't misunderstand me ...I am not a fan of roller rigs on rough bottom)

I think you might be wrong about the Talapia being safe to eat. It has been reported many times about fish food that Canada bought from China was indeed contaminated and the Talapia that comes from Vietnam is raised below the chicken coops so the waste from the chickens helps feed the fish and saves them from having to dispose of that waste. (did not figure out how to attach article from the Post yet, but I'll work on it some more?)

[NoLimit]

I know people who show complete disdain for commercial fishermen insist that the ocean bottom is destroyed whenever a net is dragged over it. Please explain to me then why, since drag nets were first used, has the area south of the Hudson Canyon between 45 and 60 fathoms been so productive till this day during the winter months? The Klondike and Manasquan ridge get dragged every fall yet the fluke seem to hit those same spots every year. (Don't misunderstand me ...I am not a fan of roller rigs on rough bottom)I think you might be wrong about the Talapia being safe to eat. It has been reported many times about fish food that Canada bought from China was indeed contaminated and the Talapia that comes from Vietnam is raised below the chicken coops so the waste from the chickens helps feed the fish and saves them from having to dispose of that waste. (did not figure out how to attach article from the Post yet, but I'll work on it some more?)


1) Off shore dragging is productive? Nothing has happened to whiting and ling or fluke or flounder? If you believe that, I have a nice new bridge in Highlands to sell you.

2) That Tilapia scare mongering is BS. Half a billion pounds of Tilapia is consumed every year and it has the commercial fishing industry running scared because it is so successful. 99.9% is perfectly good for you and some say it is the perfect farm fish.

Scaring people about Tilapia might increase the demand for commercially dragged fish but not for long. The draggers are putting themselves out of business and farmed fish will more than take up the slack. Hopefully it will allow whiting, ling, fluke, flounder, weaks, etc to come back from near extinction.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/science/earth/02tilapia.html?pagewanted=1&ref=science&adxnnlx=1304344806-AnPvA9RwAeaNNo7xY1PGqQ&_r=0

[Blackfish Doug]

1) Off shore dragging is productive? Nothing has happened to whiting and ling or fluke or flounder? If you believe that, I have a nice new bridge in Highlands to sell you.

. Hopefully it will allow whiting, ling, fluke, flounder, weaks, etc to come back from near extinction.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/science/earth/02tilapia.html?pagewanted=1&ref=science&adxnnlx=1304344806-AnPvA9RwAeaNNo7xY1PGqQ&_r=0

First lets start with Whiting the biggest problem is cannibalism about the same time the Whiting disappeared is when Giant Tuna fishing was reduced to the levels they are today. The Whiting we catch used to show up at Scotland & Ambrose channels during December taking the Labrador current south right into the heart of Giant Tuna,Dogfish big huge southbound Bluefish. & please don't forget the Whales they are good for how many pounds a fish a day & there's no balance of nature for the big predators. Big fish eat small fish & when there's no more bait they eat whatever is in their way. Even the Mackerel used to be chased up north by the Bluefish only to settle in to be Tuna,Whale,Seal & dogfish bait. Ask anybody who fish's up north they will tell you the Herring are wiped out in about a month by the predators then they seek out whatever is in their way.
The Ling are no longer a winter fishery but a summer one. I have no problem getting my fill of Ling fishing during the summer months. Even the Flounder as well The last couple of summers I had the best Ling & Flounder fishing I had in quite some time. This is my opinion but I'm going on a theory I feel it has a lot to do with our storm drain runoffs. Our fertilizers are much better today growing up as a kid all we used was horse manure now we use chemicals.Did you ever notice how bad our Algae blooms are after a runoff. Plus Calcium Chloride it began to be used during the late 70's when I was a kid all we used was rock salt. Once our snow melts off & goes into our bays the bottom temps get outright frigid. That's why the bay Flounder fishing does not get real good until late April into May.
As far as Fluke is concerned it's NJ size limit if it was 17" nobody would be crying over how many fish they got & would be bragging about getting limits again. Yes we do get a good share of 18" fish or better but our average size fish is about 17". Going by your screen name it seems that Limits are very important to you. Maybe you should fish with some of our many fine sponsors who will increase your chances of getting your limits. I'm not trying to knock you in any way but if it's limits your looking for that's the way I would go.
I honestly feel the fishing has improved quite a bit & last year was one of my best years down here in NJ. I don't Fluke fish anymore but I did see quite a few 10lb plus fish that were caught & released by our sponsors.

And if your looking to buy a bridge I got the Brooklyn Bridge for sale being I'm originally from Brooklyn. Plus the Striper fishing under that bridge is off the charts I even caught quite a few Fluke & Flounder nearby as well.

[RussH]

I can't find it now and honestly it may have been produced by terrorist group like PETA but I once watched a before and after video of what a trawler does to the bottom and even if it was one hundred percent exaggerated it still would be absolutely horrible.

[bulletbob]

First lets start with Whiting the biggest problem is cannibalism about the same time the Whiting disappeared is when Giant Tuna fishing was reduced to the levels they are today. The Whiting we catch used to show up at Scotland & Ambrose channels during December taking the Labrador current south right into the heart of Giant Tuna,Dogfish big huge southbound Bluefish. & please don't forget the Whales they are good for how many pounds a fish a day & there's no balance of nature for the big predators. Big fish eat small fish & when there's no more bait they eat whatever is in their way. Even the Mackerel used to be chased up north by the Bluefish only to settle in to be Tuna,Whale,Seal & dogfish bait. Ask anybody who fish's up north they will tell you the Herring are wiped out in about a month by the predators then they seek out whatever is in their way.
The Ling are no longer a winter fishery but a summer one. I have no problem getting my fill of Ling fishing during the summer months. Even the Flounder as well The last couple of summers I had the best Ling & Flounder fishing I had in quite some time. This is my opinion but I'm going on a theory I feel it has a lot to do with our storm drain runoffs. Our fertilizers are much better today growing up as a kid all we used was horse manure now we use chemicals.Did you ever notice how bad our Algae blooms are after a runoff. Plus Calcium Chloride it began to be used during the late 70's when I was a kid all we used was rock salt. Once our snow melts off & goes into our bays the bottom temps get outright frigid. That's why the bay Flounder fishing does not get real good until late April into May.
As far as Fluke is concerned it's NJ size limit if it was 17" nobody would be crying over how many fish they got & would be bragging about getting limits again. Yes we do get a good share of 18" fish or better but our average size fish is about 17". Going by your screen name it seems that Limits are very important to you. Maybe you should fish with some of our many fine sponsors who will increase your chances of getting your limits. I'm not trying to knock you in any way but if it's limits your looking for that's the way I would go.
I honestly feel the fishing has improved quite a bit & last year was one of my best years down here in NJ. I don't Fluke fish anymore but I did see quite a few 10lb plus fish that were caught & released by our sponsors.

And if your looking to buy a bridge I got the Brooklyn Bridge for sale being I'm originally from Brooklyn. Plus the Striper fishing under that bridge is off the charts I even caught quite a few Fluke & Flounder nearby as well.

I dunno BD... With all due respect, I must say, I don't buy any of that... Ling numbers are WAY down.. Yes they have become a summer fishery, but when I was in my 20's and 30's we caught them all year and they were always abundant in the extreme whenever you wanted them.. just had to fish deeper in mid summer and dead of winter some years.. I can see your theory and I think I understand where you are going with it, but I guess can't think in color the way you can.. My theory is more in black and white-, The species mentioned have become less numerous because people have caught and eaten too many for too long, and have killed too many of their young "incidentally" by dragging weighted nets across their habitat mile after mile year after year, decade after decade..bob

[Ry609]

You couldn't pay me enough to eat tilapia. Google the conditions they're raised in, the amount of antibiotics they pump into them to keep them disease free, and you won't eat it anymore either. Disgusting conditions.

[Rightaway III]

gentlemen,I have been fishing these waters for over68 years and have a great memory.I could bore all of you with many examples of waste and overkill,instead i will give you one example that many of you can recall.Not to many years ago when the whitting fishing was super ,there were days when we could see dead ling floating as far as the naked eye to see.All this to box a few hundred pounds of whitting.The ling would be shoveled off the decks like some kind of garbage.wonderful way to treat a great eating fish.ENOUGH SAID.CAPT.TOMMY JOSEPH

[bulletbob]

gentlemen,I have been fishing these waters for over68 years and have a great memory.I could bore all of you with many examples of waste and overkill,instead i will give you one example that many of you can recall.Not to many years ago when the whitting fishing was super ,there were days when we could see dead ling floating as far as the naked eye to see.All this to box a few hundred pounds of whitting.The ling would be shoveled off the decks like some kind of garbage.wonderful way to treat a great eating fish.ENOUGH SAID.CAPT.TOMMY JOSEPH

What really is ridiculous is the fact that Ling are way better eating than Whiting.. both are very good of course, but I think most will agree that Ling is better.. Whiting "look" better on ice, and probably keep a little better I would imagine.. yes, i remember the days of thousands upon thousands of dead ling of all sizes after the "fishermen" came through with their damn nets.

[Blackfish Doug]

Only the old timers would remember this I remember customers complaining that they didn't want the ling all they wanted was the Whiting.

[bulletbob]

Only the old timers would remember this I remember customers complaining that they didn't want the ling all they wanted was the Whiting.

Pretty accurate actually... As a younger man, when the whiting and ling fishing was great, I recall getting sick of looking at a bag of slimy,poopy ling, wishing I had less ling and more whiting.. the whiting were sleeker, looked more like a game fish, somewhat better fighters, more aggressive, would slam artificials etc,,, Today I realize the ling were better eating... Still wish the Whiting would return... I miss them..... bob

[Rightaway III]

Ling are the rodney dangerfield of the ocean,get no respect.Its true,they wont win any beauty contests but fry up a BATCH AND THEY DISSAPEAR LIKE POTATO CHIPS.tommy joseph

[Charlie B]

I remember ling being called sewer trout I think there were other slang names for them too back then. They said if you don't gut them soon enough they would spoil fast. Well I heard that and always gutted mine right away and iced them down. Never had any spoilage and they were great eating...Charlie