A good read on Fluke

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Since we all haven't been out much lately, enjoy the read.

http://www.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2014/06/summer-flounder-moves-north/

[shrimpman steve]

Good read. Thanks for posting. Sounds like another civil war is brewing :eek:

[Reel Class]

Don't have time to read the whole thing, but already one point stands out and it's BS.

The reason fluke populations are "moving north" is because the BIOMASS IS GROWING. There are fluke everywhere!

And... They've been catching fluke in New England as long as we've been catching them here.

More political nonsense spewing an agenda to spurn "climate change." More from me on this later when I get a chance to read the whole thing. :rolleyes:

[1captainron]

Just a little further today folks....!

[Taxman]

Don't have time to read the whole thing, but already one point stands out and it's BS.

The reason fluke populations are "moving north" is because the BIOMASS IS GROWING. There are fluke everywhere!

And... They've been catching fluke in New England as long as we've been catching them here.

More political nonsense spewing an agenda to spurn "climate change." More from me on this later when I get a chance to read the whole thing. :rolleyes:

25 years ago when I went to Cape Cod in August, the party boats would sail for Tog and sea bass with some porgies. Nobody fished for fluke

Now it is all fluke and porgies

[Gerry Zagorski]

25 years ago when I went to Cape Cod in August, the party boats would sail for Tog and sea bass with some porgies. Nobody fished for fluke

Now it is all fluke and porgies

Yep - they have to fish for something given the Cod Closures.

They close down one fishery and people target and put pressure on other stocks.

But hey, that's not the case here.... It's obviously Global Warming :rolleyes:

[shrimpman steve]

It's no longer global warming it's now climate change. And according to some the number one threat to our national security

Wanna buy a bridge?:D

[bunker dunker]

Arizona just up the bag limit to 8 fluke at 14 inches.

[RussH]

I'm confused, are you guys arguing that Climate change isn't real? Or that it isn't man made? One of those is arguable the other is not. The climate IS changing. Climate always changes. Whether it's man made or not is the question I thought. So if we can agree that the climate is changing, is it not then reasonable that the fish are moving because of it?

Isn't that the whole reason invasive Lion Fish are doing so well where they never did before? They require warmer temperatures and as the oceans warm, and acidify fish that didn't do well before, now are.

I "personally" believe that man made climate change is real, and that there are things that can be done about it. I believe the Occam's Razor of climate change is that burning all the oil and coal is releasing carbon which is causing an acceleration of a change that would happen regardless. It's the simplest answer for the current speed. But that doesn't matter, carbon taxes and wind power are outside the scope of the Fluke Fishery. What matters is the question of ARE they moving north and if so, what can be done about it that is fair to everyone involved.

[bender]

[QUOTE=Reel Class;433382]

The reason fluke populations are "moving north" is because the BIOMASS IS GROWING. There are fluke everywhere!



100% agreed.
stock is as healthy as it has ever been.
the whole thing is a debate over an allocation of funding with a political spin.

[Almaink]

New info on why the ice is melting in Greenland. Turns out Joni Mitchell was right, it's clouds not climate change.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/12/scientists-just-found-an-unexpected-factor-that-could-be-driving-greenlands-ice-loss/

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Another news article from SNJ -

Posted: Thursday, January 7, 2016 11:21 pm
By: RICHARD DEGENER, Staff Writer



STAFFORD TOWNSHIP _ Southern New Jersey anglers gave hearty support this week to a plan that would boost fluke fishing in the Delaware Bay.
A crowd of about 50 anglers showed up at the Thursday night meeting here at the municipal building on East Bay Avenue to give opinions on 2016 regulations for black sea bass, scup and fluke, which is also called summer flounder.

The most important question of the night was whether to support Option 2B of the fluke plan that would allow the New Jersey side of the Delaware Bay to compete with Delaware. This support now goes to the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council when it makes decisions on 2016 fluke regulations in March.

The 2015 regulations for the New Jersey side of the bay included a minimum fish size of 18 inches, five fish per day, and a 128-day season.

In Delaware, Maryland and Virginia anglers were allowed a 16-inch fish, four fish a day and enjoyed a 365-day season. Option 2B would allow the New Jersey side to have a 17-inch fish, four fish a day and the 128-day season. It’s not equal to Delaware, but it is closer to parity.

A straw poll drew 37 votes for the option, including many anglers who don’t fish the Delaware but wanted to support fellow Garden State anglers to the south.

Frank Virgilio of the New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs, said marinas, bait & tackle shops, party boats and charter boats are going out of business on the bayshore because anglers fish out of Delaware instead of New Jersey. He said business is down 30 to 40 percent.

“This option is very important to the survival of the Delaware bayside,” said Virgilio.

Mike Rothman, a boat captain in Fortesque, Cumberland County, also pushed for the option noting anglers were crossing the bridge to Delaware to fish under more lenient regulations.

“You mention Delaware Bay fishing. I am Delaware Bay fishing. This is my livelihood and it’s catastrophic. We recently lost two (party) boats and three or four charter boats,” Rothman said.

A number of large fishing groups including United Boatman and the Jersey Coast Anglers Association gave their support.

“In 2015 people in southern New Jersey were treated unfairly. They were fishing the same waters as the people of Delaware yet we have an 18-inch size limit and they have 16 inches. We’re losing business to Delaware,” said JCAA President Paul Haertel.

Overall the fluke harvest is being reduced 29 percent due to poor recruitment of juvenile fish. The harvest is going from 23 million pounds to 16 million pounds. This is expected to mostly hurt the commercial fishing industry as their quota will be cut by that amount.

Recreational anglers in New Jersey did not come close to their harvest target last year. They were allowed 942,401 fish and only landed 485,170. The cuts would mean anglers could only land 738,404 fish this year but since that is above last year’s catch the same regulations will stay in place.

This includes an 18-inch fish, five fish a day and a 128-day season. The only exceptions would be the Delaware Bay if Option 2B is put in place and Island Beach State Park where surfcasters are allowed smaller fluke.

Anglers voted to support this management regime for 2016 only and want to revisit the issue before 2017. New Jersey under an earlier set of regulations where each state was managed separately got 39 percent of the East Coast fluke harvest. The new regime, with stocks managed on a coast-wide basis and New Jersey lumped in with New York and Connecticut, has reduced it to 33 percent.

Tom Fote, a representative on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission from New Jersey, said it would be unrealistic to change back to the old system this year but he supported at least creating the Delaware Bay as a separate management region.

Toni Kerns, a manager with the ASMFC, said this year there is a Recreational Harvest Limit of 1.6 million fish for the whole coast and states are not managed individually.

“If the (ASMFC) goes back to state-by-state management in 2017 New Jersey would still have its 39 percent,” Kerns said.

Black sea bass catches were set to go up 20 percent this year from 2.33 million pounds to 2.8 million pounds but harvests through October were 1.19 million pounds over target and right now a 23-percent cut is called for against the 2.8 million pound quota.

The concern is anything landed in November and December will increase the cuts, and it was unseasonably warm those two months with a lot of fishing. Some fear cuts as high as 35 percent when those numbers come in.

Adam Nowalsky, a New Jersey representative on the ASMFC, said the final numbers will be out before a decision is made in February.

The scup catch limit is being reduced slightly but is still higher than recent landings.

Time to start thinking of whats coming down the pike in the weeks to come. This option 2B is BS . A few years back we gave up a few fish for a lower size limit mainly due to SNJ complaining. Fast forward, they are still asking again for a lower size limit to be sort of on par with Delaware. AGAIN BS. If we are going to play the dividing game, let the SNJ quota count against the Delaware allotment. I refuse to allow my allotment for the STATE OF NEW JERSEY to be filled faster by a lower size limit for my friends down south. I have no issue with the lower size limit for IBSP. These are families who vacation or visit and surf fish.


When NY had their higher size limit than NJ, did they make Raritan Bay one size? No, so lets not start this shyt now.

[1captainron]

ALL of NJ should be 16 inches!!!!
Guys up here are going out of business also.......:mad:

[Fish The Drop Off]

Another news article from SNJ -

Posted: Thursday, January 7, 2016 11:21 pm
By: RICHARD DEGENER, Staff Writer



STAFFORD TOWNSHIP _ Southern New Jersey anglers gave hearty support this week to a plan that would boost fluke fishing in the Delaware Bay.
A crowd of about 50 anglers showed up at the Thursday night meeting here at the municipal building on East Bay Avenue to give opinions on 2016 regulations for black sea bass, scup and fluke, which is also called summer flounder.

The most important question of the night was whether to support Option 2B of the fluke plan that would allow the New Jersey side of the Delaware Bay to compete with Delaware. This support now goes to the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council when it makes decisions on 2016 fluke regulations in March.

The 2015 regulations for the New Jersey side of the bay included a minimum fish size of 18 inches, five fish per day, and a 128-day season.

In Delaware, Maryland and Virginia anglers were allowed a 16-inch fish, four fish a day and enjoyed a 365-day season. Option 2B would allow the New Jersey side to have a 17-inch fish, four fish a day and the 128-day season. It’s not equal to Delaware, but it is closer to parity.

A straw poll drew 37 votes for the option, including many anglers who don’t fish the Delaware but wanted to support fellow Garden State anglers to the south.

Frank Virgilio of the New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs, said marinas, bait & tackle shops, party boats and charter boats are going out of business on the bayshore because anglers fish out of Delaware instead of New Jersey. He said business is down 30 to 40 percent.

“This option is very important to the survival of the Delaware bayside,” said Virgilio.

Mike Rothman, a boat captain in Fortesque, Cumberland County, also pushed for the option noting anglers were crossing the bridge to Delaware to fish under more lenient regulations.

“You mention Delaware Bay fishing. I am Delaware Bay fishing. This is my livelihood and it’s catastrophic. We recently lost two (party) boats and three or four charter boats,” Rothman said.

A number of large fishing groups including United Boatman and the Jersey Coast Anglers Association gave their support.

“In 2015 people in southern New Jersey were treated unfairly. They were fishing the same waters as the people of Delaware yet we have an 18-inch size limit and they have 16 inches. We’re losing business to Delaware,” said JCAA President Paul Haertel.

Overall the fluke harvest is being reduced 29 percent due to poor recruitment of juvenile fish. The harvest is going from 23 million pounds to 16 million pounds. This is expected to mostly hurt the commercial fishing industry as their quota will be cut by that amount.

Recreational anglers in New Jersey did not come close to their harvest target last year. They were allowed 942,401 fish and only landed 485,170. The cuts would mean anglers could only land 738,404 fish this year but since that is above last year’s catch the same regulations will stay in place.

This includes an 18-inch fish, five fish a day and a 128-day season. The only exceptions would be the Delaware Bay if Option 2B is put in place and Island Beach State Park where surfcasters are allowed smaller fluke.

Anglers voted to support this management regime for 2016 only and want to revisit the issue before 2017. New Jersey under an earlier set of regulations where each state was managed separately got 39 percent of the East Coast fluke harvest. The new regime, with stocks managed on a coast-wide basis and New Jersey lumped in with New York and Connecticut, has reduced it to 33 percent.

Tom Fote, a representative on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission from New Jersey, said it would be unrealistic to change back to the old system this year but he supported at least creating the Delaware Bay as a separate management region.

Toni Kerns, a manager with the ASMFC, said this year there is a Recreational Harvest Limit of 1.6 million fish for the whole coast and states are not managed individually.

“If the (ASMFC) goes back to state-by-state management in 2017 New Jersey would still have its 39 percent,” Kerns said.

Black sea bass catches were set to go up 20 percent this year from 2.33 million pounds to 2.8 million pounds but harvests through October were 1.19 million pounds over target and right now a 23-percent cut is called for against the 2.8 million pound quota.

The concern is anything landed in November and December will increase the cuts, and it was unseasonably warm those two months with a lot of fishing. Some fear cuts as high as 35 percent when those numbers come in.

Adam Nowalsky, a New Jersey representative on the ASMFC, said the final numbers will be out before a decision is made in February.

The scup catch limit is being reduced slightly but is still higher than recent landings.

Time to start thinking of whats coming down the pike in the weeks to come. This option 2B is BS . A few years back we gave up a few fish for a lower size limit mainly due to SNJ complaining. Fast forward, they are still asking again for a lower size limit to be sort of on par with Delaware. AGAIN BS. If we are going to play the dividing game, let the SNJ quota count against the Delaware allotment. I refuse to allow my allotment for the STATE OF NEW JERSEY to be filled faster by a lower size limit for my friends down south. I have no issue with the lower size limit for IBSP. These are families who vacation or visit and surf fish.


When NY had their higher size limit than NJ, did they make Raritan Bay one size? No, so lets not start this shyt now.



If you were at the meeting you would know that this is the only way that we can get back to NJ being its own area and getting out of being group with NY and CT.

You also say it is All of south jersey that would get this and that is not the case it would be just the DEL Bay fisherman. Not all of South Jersey

Also this is not a north and south thing that you are trying to make this about.

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Agreed Ron, but when we go backwards they look for give backs. How much more can we give back as we approach zero. Fran, you were in agreement to give back fish for a lower size limit the last go around. Well stocks are rebuilt and did we get the fish we gave back returned to up our bag? So don't go asking me be in favor of something that will decrease my shortened season and lessen our total bag again. Enjoy your Drum fishing. Come north and catch Fluke.

[Fish The Drop Off]

But it does not change your season. We are looking at almost the same season as last year.

Yes I did vote for the smaller fish three years ago. I also have been voting for the season to go longer in the fall rather then start earlier for the last 12 years. I do fish north since I sit in the middle of the state.

I think your missing the point. There is a big push trying to not be grouped with NY and CT and if they approve this change to get the Del bay guys a smaller fish we will be grouped by ourselves. What I what is to get back to state by state with regs. NJ landings on fluke where one half of what they projected. Just think if we did not have to cover NY and CT Overage we would be looking better for next year. Instead we are sitting with the same season.

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

But it does not change your season. We are looking at almost the same season as last year.

Yes, assuming we remain with the current tri-state regulations. So lets assume we break away and become an independent region again. Will we get back the 6% reduction we took when we were lumped together tri-state? I highly doubt it. So to appease Del. bay fisherman this time, under option 2B, they will be their own region. So the regulations for Del. bay will be closer to the Delaware state regs. but will come out of the State of New Jersey overall quota. I'm not for it. One state, one size.

Herman Cain had a plan, 9-9-9.

Pretty soon everyone in our state can be as one. Rename their boat Noahs Ark. This plan is heading to be the new 2-2-2.
2 Stripers - 2 Winter Flounders - 2 Fluke.

No thanks.

[Fish The Drop Off]

No, For option 2b to happen NJ will become its own region. It was already Stated that we are looking at 128 day with a bag of 5 at 18 inches for the 2016 season or something very close to that.

This has to be Approved and then NMFC would have to offer it to be an option. What we should be more worried about is the part you just over looked in that NJ only land 1/2 of their quota if we were going state by state. So in a sense we are covering NY and CT on their overage. So if you like give NY and CT your fish Go with your option. I personal do not want to cover there mistakes like we are seeking with Sea bass now.

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

What we should be more worried about is the part you just over looked in that NJ only land 1/2 of their quota if we were going state by state.

Yes, we should be worried, worried about who will speak on behalf of what is good for fisherman in the State of New Jersey. I did'nt miss it at all. I'm just tired of giving more to get less, and I'm still against a two size limit for one species in one state. When uncle Chucky spoke, they caved. How do N.J. representatives allow other states to take a stake in what was ours? We in this industry have lost faith in the higher ups who represent fisherman in N.J. We are WAY over due for a change here. Thank you for your answers and shedding some light on these issues, maybe it will help to understand what is going on here. Good luck to you in 2016.

[NoLimit]

I "personally" believe that man made climate change is real, and that there are things that can be done about it. I believe the Occam's Razor of climate change is that burning all the oil and coal is releasing carbon which is causing an acceleration of a change that would happen regardless..

1) the global warming hysteria is flawed and based on obsolete weather stations that used to be in open space but are now surrounded by parking lots, runways, etc

2). Satellite thermal scans are far more accurate and prove there is no global wArming

3) Yes there are periods of warming and cooling and it happens on all planets. It's caused by solar flare activity

Those are the facts and not the smoke and mirrors used to create yet another tax

[RussH]

1) the global warming hysteria is flawed and based on obsolete weather stations that used to be in open space but are now surrounded by parking lots, runways, etc

2). Satellite thermal scans are far more accurate and prove there is no global wArming

3) Yes there are periods of warming and cooling and it happens on all planets. It's caused by solar flare activity

Those are the facts and not the smoke and mirrors used to create yet another tax

Fine but you seem to have missed my overall point that the cause doesn't matter in terms of the subject. The effect is happening regardless of your beliefs.

[reason162]

The effect is happening regardless of your beliefs.

Exactly. Reality is not beholden to someone's incredulity. I think it's pretty funny that in this country (so far anyway), the climate change deniers are the ones most affected by...climate change. You can choose to ignore the findings of those studies mentioned in the article, but in a few more years things will be crystal clear.

[RussH]

Exactly. Reality is not beholden to someone's incredulity. I think it's pretty funny that in this country (so far anyway), the climate change deniers are the ones most affected by...climate change. You can choose to ignore the findings of those studies mentioned in the article, but in a few more years things will be crystal clear.

Wow... and here I thought I was completely alone in that line of thinking. When the center of the Biomass is in New Hampshire and we're all spearfishing for Lion Fish people will say, "hmmm I wonder if we were wrong".

[shrimpman steve]

I could be wrong but I thought the lip fish problem was from escaped fish going back to Andrew. Fish that escaped from a damaged fish store supplier or something

Like I said. I could be wrong

[RussH]

I could be wrong but I thought the lip fish problem was from escaped fish going back to Andrew. Fish that escaped from a damaged fish store supplier or something

Like I said. I could be wrong


I watched a very in depth documentary on them recently. It's because of water temperature and little else. They survive crazy depths. They enjoy warm acidic water. So as temperatures rise they're going to keep coming north. I'll see if I can find the documentary about it and post it. Was very in depth. Apparently there's coops selling them as food now to try and put commercial pressure on them but they're almost exclusively fished for with Spears.

But back on topic if the biomass is moving then states do need to figure out what to do about that.

[shrimpman steve]

Many articles about how they were introduced. They didn't just make their way here naturaly. Man made problem.

http://sailorsforthesea.org/resources/ocean-watch/lionfish-invasion

[RussH]

Many articles about how they were introduced. They didn't just make their way here naturaly. Man made problem.

http://sailorsforthesea.org/resources/ocean-watch/lionfish-invasion

I was just coming here to correct myself. They WERE introduced to Florida either by hurricane or by negligent owners. 100% correct. Their spread however not only here but around the world IS being attributed to climate change.