Top shot for tog fishing

[Islander II]

Just curious what is used most by toggers. Mono, mono leader, or fluro leader, and how long? I was on a charter last week and the mate re tied my top shot for me, which was different from what I'm used to, and the bite changed for me.

[jlrotary]

Did the bite change for better or worse and how was your top shot different from what you normally do?
I personally use regular mono line, about 30 feet. This will usually last the entire day.

[Roman' Round Charters]

Hey islander two. Everyone fishes differently. I personally don't like that 30' of drop shot. I am still fishing 50' of water and use 40 lb mono with a 6' drop shot. This to me maximizes my feel with the no stretch braid and a simple triple loop connection from braid to mono is used with theses shorter leaders. Try different approaches til you find what works for you. Good luck.

[MrAC1980]

I was out this weekend and tried mono again for the first time in awhile and was actually surprised how well I liked it. Especially in a big swell the stretch helped me keep the sinker on the bottom. But to answer your question, I normally use 15-20ft of 50lb mono tied with a modified alberto knot, i do 10 down and 8 up.

[shrimpman steve]

Kevin, ten feet of top shot. I use mono with a uni to uni

Whart are you doin New Years day. I'm goin out on the mimi

[Islander II]

I would say the mate put 30' of 40 lb mono. I'm used to 10'-12' and from there down. I think it was just one of those days. I was just curious what everyone else was using. Thanks for the replies!

[hammer4reel]

Much more than 10' and you lost all the purpose of having braid.
Could just fish mono entirely if have 30 foot or more

[Islander II]

Much more than 10' and you lost all the purpose of having braid.
Could just fish mono entirely if have 30 foot or more

I have a feeling that might have been the issue.

[Adrenalinerush]

Okay, not trying to jump on your thread but I have a question regarding top shot and the rod you use. I usually use about a 15' top shot with a fast action rod. If I used a longer top shot say 25 or 30 feet would the extra stretch in the longer mono top shot turn the fast action rod into more of a medium/fast action?

[hammer4reel]

Okay, not trying to jump on your thread but I have a question regarding top shot and the rod you use. I usually use about a 15' top shot with a fast action rod. If I used a longer top shot say 25 or 30 feet would the extra stretch in the longer mono top shot turn the fast action rod into more of a medium/fast action?


you would get a little more cushion due to the stretch of the mono.

[Adrenalinerush]

That's what I am hoping for, my thought was fast action with a shorter top shot when I need it and slightly slower action with a longer top shot when I want to fish the rod that way

[MVP]

That's what I am hoping for, my thought was fast action with a shorter top shot when I need it and slightly slower action with a longer top shot when I want to fish the rod that way

Going to try to answer this question and the ? about what blackfish rod in one post for you.
Everyone has there own opinion and you need to find out what works for you.
Once you have confidence in the set up you are using you will find that you will catch more fish consistently. When targeting Big fish fast action graphite rods and braid in my opinion are not a good combination.

If you are stuck fishing one rod that is graphite and fast action you will be much better off either fishing straight mono or longer top shot of at least 20 ft.
To much sensitivity with fast action braid set up i think is a bad thing especially on days when bite is scratchy. Being you have very little give or cushion with that set up the fish feels that resistance and will drop your bait rather than finishing it off and giving you a bite worth swinging at. Try not to fish so tight to your line and give yourself a little slack or what some like to call Belly in your line. You can just watch your line jump without fish feeling any resistance. Once you master that feel you will become a much better blackfisherman or in your case blackfisherwomen.
Women sometimes actually make better blackfisherman as they are more patient and will not swing at every little bump or scratch they feel. Once you get that feel you will be able to know the difference between a bergal or scratchy bite and wait for the Right bite to swing at. Not only will you catch more fish but the quality and size of the fish you catch will improve.

I use to fish G loomis, Lamiglass, st Criox and all high end graphite blanks.
Add braid to the equation and now you have almost no give. Did i use to catch fish. Hell Yeh. But what i did find out is that i also was loosing big fish to pulled hooks due to lack of stretch in line and no cushion from my rod when blackfish started bulldogging his way to the bottom.

About ten years ago i came across an old Austrailian blank that many of the Blackfish sharpies from Belmar would use. I later came to find that the rod builders name was Al and had passed away probably about 20 years ago. Not sure exactly when. If you walked on the Mohawk or Explorer they would know right away that it was an Al rod as he had a distinctive band wrapp he we put on rods that where at a certain height on blank that when leaned on rail it would hit that wrapp. Basically an old fiberglass blank that is super light yet very durable. Rod actually bends throught the whole entire blank without any shut off point. When i originally picked it up i thought to myself this will make a great bait rod for fluke which it turned out to be. Being it bent so much i thought it would never be able to be used for blackfish. I tried it out one day blackfishing and was amazed as to how much lead it can hold and how it transmitted the bite to me that was totally different feel than the graphite rods i was use to. I also noticed after several trips that i was not dropping any fish due to pulled hooks as the rod would absorb all that shock. The rest is now history as that rod has changed how i blackfish and has made me a better fisherman. Of the 40 blackfish over 10 pounds that i have caught more than 30 of them have been caught on that blank.
There is no such thing as the perfect blackfish rod as if you ask 10 people you will get 10 different opinions. I would not recomend the rod i primarily use but it works for me as i am tuned into what it is telling me on the other end of the line. When people pick up my rod they find it hard to believe that that rod can catch double digit tog as there is the misconception that you need a heavy stiff rod with fast action to pull fish out of the wreck. Well pictures do not lie

If you are seriously looking to get into blackfishing i would get myself 2 rods
preferably the same blank with different size tips. This way your interpretation of the bite will be similiar based on which rod you are using.

Soft tip moderate bend glass or composite blank. something in the 7-8 ft range based on private or partyboat fishing. I personally like 7.6 ft rod as it allows me the length i need not to have my rod tip pointed straight to the water so i can fish slack in my line as well as giving me the extra length i need when setting the hook being rod has so much give.

My go to set up is my 7.6 australian glass blank
55 lb Diawa Boat braid with 20Ft of Andy mono top shot connected by FG Knot. Smoothest knot i have found to date.
As for rigs i will fish anywhere from 30-80 lbs based on where i am fishing, conditions and bite. If fishing DE, MD, VA i will bump up my top shot to 60-80 lbs and my rigs at 60-80 lbs when i am trophy hunting.

Second rod of similar blank i would cut to somewhere between 10-12 tip based on action and how much weight you want it to handle. This can either be your straight mono rod or you or fish your braid set up with top shot especially if you need rod to handle heavier sinker weight of 10-14 oz.

Probably way to much info but when it comes to tog fishing there is really no right or wrong answers but there are some principles that seperate the 20% of fisherman that catch 80% of the fish. If you can stack the deck in your favor and reduce the learning curve why not listen to what others have to say and take bits and pieces to incorporate into your style of fishing. I have been tog fishing for almost 30 years now. I am always trying to learn new things to help me and others around me become a better angler. Luckily i get to fish with some of the best blackfisherman from RI down to VA and can say that a trip does not go by where i do not learn something. Just over the past 2 years i have picked up several tips that I can honestly say has taken my blackfishing to another level. One of the great things is about this site is that you have good people willing to share info. You can read as much as you want but nothing can substitute being out on the water and putting all that info to hands on use. Best of luck to you on your blackfish Career.

Hopefully some of this will help

Alex
MVP

[kurtisb]

Every time I fish with Alex, I am amazed at how that rod bends all the way to the handle and he never drops fish. I am becoming a believer.

[SaltLife1980]

40lbs mono.. around ten feet long.. Tied with an albright.. Does me well!

[Adrenalinerush]

Going to try to answer this question and the ? about what blackfish rod in one post for you.
Everyone has there own opinion and you need to find out what works for you.
Once you have confidence in the set up you are using you will find that you will catch more fish consistently. When targeting Big fish fast action graphite rods and braid in my opinion are not a good combination.

If you are stuck fishing one rod that is graphite and fast action you will be much better off either fishing straight mono or longer top shot of at least 20 ft.
To much sensitivity with fast action braid set up i think is a bad thing especially on days when bite is scratchy. Being you have very little give or cushion with that set up the fish feels that resistance and will drop your bait rather than finishing it off and giving you a bite worth swinging at. Try not to fish so tight to your line and give yourself a little slack or what some like to call Belly in your line. You can just watch your line jump without fish feeling any resistance. Once you master that feel you will become a much better blackfisherman or in your case blackfisherwomen.
Women sometimes actually make better blackfisherman as they are more patient and will not swing at every little bump or scratch they feel. Once you get that feel you will be able to know the difference between a bergal or scratchy bite and wait for the Right bite to swing at. Not only will you catch more fish but the quality and size of the fish you catch will improve.

I use to fish G loomis, Lamiglass, st Criox and all high end graphite blanks.
Add braid to the equation and now you have almost no give. Did i use to catch fish. Hell Yeh. But what i did find out is that i also was loosing big fish to pulled hooks due to lack of stretch in line and no cushion from my rod when blackfish started bulldogging his way to the bottom.

About ten years ago i came across an old Austrailian blank that many of the Blackfish sharpies from Belmar would use. I later came to find that the rod builders name was Al and had passed away probably about 20 years ago. Not sure exactly when. If you walked on the Mohawk or Explorer they would know right away that it was an Al rod as he had a distinctive band wrapp he we put on rods that where at a certain height on blank that when leaned on rail it would hit that wrapp. Basically an old fiberglass blank that is super light yet very durable. Rod actually bends throught the whole entire blank without any shut off point. When i originally picked it up i thought to myself this will make a great bait rod for fluke which it turned out to be. Being it bent so much i thought it would never be able to be used for blackfish. I tried it out one day blackfishing and was amazed as to how much lead it can hold and how it transmitted the bite to me that was totally different feel than the graphite rods i was use to. I also noticed after several trips that i was not dropping any fish due to pulled hooks as the rod would absorb all that shock. The rest is now history as that rod has changed how i blackfish and has made me a better fisherman. Of the 40 blackfish over 10 pounds that i have caught more than 30 of them have been caught on that blank.
There is no such thing as the perfect blackfish rod as if you ask 10 people you will get 10 different opinions. I would not recomend the rod i primarily use but it works for me as i am tuned into what it is telling me on the other end of the line. When people pick up my rod they find it hard to believe that that rod can catch double digit tog as there is the misconception that you need a heavy stiff rod with fast action to pull fish out of the wreck. Well pictures do not lie

If you are seriously looking to get into blackfishing i would get myself 2 rods
preferably the same blank with different size tips. This way your interpretation of the bite will be similiar based on which rod you are using.

Soft tip moderate bend glass or composite blank. something in the 7-8 ft range based on private or partyboat fishing. I personally like 7.6 ft rod as it allows me the length i need not to have my rod tip pointed straight to the water so i can fish slack in my line as well as giving me the extra length i need when setting the hook being rod has so much give.

My go to set up is my 7.6 australian glass blank
55 lb Diawa Boat braid with 20Ft of Andy mono top shot connected by FG Knot. Smoothest knot i have found to date.
As for rigs i will fish anywhere from 30-80 lbs based on where i am fishing, conditions and bite. If fishing DE, MD, VA i will bump up my top shot to 60-80 lbs and my rigs at 60-80 lbs when i am trophy hunting.

Second rod of similar blank i would cut to somewhere between 10-12 tip based on action and how much weight you want it to handle. This can either be your straight mono rod or you or fish your braid set up with top shot especially if you need rod to handle heavier sinker weight of 10-14 oz.

Probably way to much info but when it comes to tog fishing there is really no right or wrong answers but there are some principles that seperate the 20% of fisherman that catch 80% of the fish. If you can stack the deck in your favor and reduce the learning curve why not listen to what others have to say and take bits and pieces to incorporate into your style of fishing. I have been tog fishing for almost 30 years now. I am always trying to learn new things to help me and others around me become a better angler. Luckily i get to fish with some of the best blackfisherman from RI down to VA and can say that a trip does not go by where i do not learn something. Just over the past 2 years i have picked up several tips that I can honestly say has taken my blackfishing to another level. One of the great things is about this site is that you have good people willing to share info. You can read as much as you want but nothing can substitute being out on the water and putting all that info to hands on use. Best of luck to you on your blackfish Career.

Hopefully some of this will help

Alex
MVP



Thanks for the detailed reply Alex, actually I am a 50 year old man not a women, lol. The avatar is my daughter with a steelhead. I wouldn't post a picture of my ugly mug. I'm trying to take my black fishing to the next level which is the reason for all my questions. I am going to try a few types of rods to find out what I like, thanks again.

[MVP]

Hope info provided helped. As for picture you are right as picture of pretty young girl is always more diserable than picture of 50 year old Man.:D
Feel free to keep asking questions. The more you fish for them the better you will get as you will get a feel for the right bite to swing at once you are in tune with yur tackle. Once you think you have it all figured out you will have days that they will humble you. One of the reasons guys love to fish for them.
I am always willing to share info as well as many of the great members we have on this site that are some great blackfisherman

[PaBeerGuy]

Going to try to answer this question and the ? about what blackfish rod in one post for you.
Everyone has there own opinion and you need to find out what works for you.
Once you have confidence in the set up you are using you will find that you will catch more fish consistently. When targeting Big fish fast action graphite rods and braid in my opinion are not a good combination.

If you are stuck fishing one rod that is graphite and fast action you will be much better off either fishing straight mono or longer top shot of at least 20 ft.
To much sensitivity with fast action braid set up i think is a bad thing especially on days when bite is scratchy. Being you have very little give or cushion with that set up the fish feels that resistance and will drop your bait rather than finishing it off and giving you a bite worth swinging at. Try not to fish so tight to your line and give yourself a little slack or what some like to call Belly in your line. You can just watch your line jump without fish feeling any resistance. Once you master that feel you will become a much better blackfisherman or in your case blackfisherwomen.
Women sometimes actually make better blackfisherman as they are more patient and will not swing at every little bump or scratch they feel. Once you get that feel you will be able to know the difference between a bergal or scratchy bite and wait for the Right bite to swing at. Not only will you catch more fish but the quality and size of the fish you catch will improve.

I use to fish G loomis, Lamiglass, st Criox and all high end graphite blanks.
Add braid to the equation and now you have almost no give. Did i use to catch fish. Hell Yeh. But what i did find out is that i also was loosing big fish to pulled hooks due to lack of stretch in line and no cushion from my rod when blackfish started bulldogging his way to the bottom.

About ten years ago i came across an old Austrailian blank that many of the Blackfish sharpies from Belmar would use. I later came to find that the rod builders name was Al and had passed away probably about 20 years ago. Not sure exactly when. If you walked on the Mohawk or Explorer they would know right away that it was an Al rod as he had a distinctive band wrapp he we put on rods that where at a certain height on blank that when leaned on rail it would hit that wrapp. Basically an old fiberglass blank that is super light yet very durable. Rod actually bends throught the whole entire blank without any shut off point. When i originally picked it up i thought to myself this will make a great bait rod for fluke which it turned out to be. Being it bent so much i thought it would never be able to be used for blackfish. I tried it out one day blackfishing and was amazed as to how much lead it can hold and how it transmitted the bite to me that was totally different feel than the graphite rods i was use to. I also noticed after several trips that i was not dropping any fish due to pulled hooks as the rod would absorb all that shock. The rest is now history as that rod has changed how i blackfish and has made me a better fisherman. Of the 40 blackfish over 10 pounds that i have caught more than 30 of them have been caught on that blank.
There is no such thing as the perfect blackfish rod as if you ask 10 people you will get 10 different opinions. I would not recomend the rod i primarily use but it works for me as i am tuned into what it is telling me on the other end of the line. When people pick up my rod they find it hard to believe that that rod can catch double digit tog as there is the misconception that you need a heavy stiff rod with fast action to pull fish out of the wreck. Well pictures do not lie

If you are seriously looking to get into blackfishing i would get myself 2 rods
preferably the same blank with different size tips. This way your interpretation of the bite will be similiar based on which rod you are using.

Soft tip moderate bend glass or composite blank. something in the 7-8 ft range based on private or partyboat fishing. I personally like 7.6 ft rod as it allows me the length i need not to have my rod tip pointed straight to the water so i can fish slack in my line as well as giving me the extra length i need when setting the hook being rod has so much give.

My go to set up is my 7.6 australian glass blank
55 lb Diawa Boat braid with 20Ft of Andy mono top shot connected by FG Knot. Smoothest knot i have found to date.
As for rigs i will fish anywhere from 30-80 lbs based on where i am fishing, conditions and bite. If fishing DE, MD, VA i will bump up my top shot to 60-80 lbs and my rigs at 60-80 lbs when i am trophy hunting.

Second rod of similar blank i would cut to somewhere between 10-12 tip based on action and how much weight you want it to handle. This can either be your straight mono rod or you or fish your braid set up with top shot especially if you need rod to handle heavier sinker weight of 10-14 oz.

Probably way to much info but when it comes to tog fishing there is really no right or wrong answers but there are some principles that seperate the 20% of fisherman that catch 80% of the fish. If you can stack the deck in your favor and reduce the learning curve why not listen to what others have to say and take bits and pieces to incorporate into your style of fishing. I have been tog fishing for almost 30 years now. I am always trying to learn new things to help me and others around me become a better angler. Luckily i get to fish with some of the best blackfisherman from RI down to VA and can say that a trip does not go by where i do not learn something. Just over the past 2 years i have picked up several tips that I can honestly say has taken my blackfishing to another level. One of the great things is about this site is that you have good people willing to share info. You can read as much as you want but nothing can substitute being out on the water and putting all that info to hands on use. Best of luck to you on your blackfish Career.

Hopefully some of this will help

Alex
MVP

I just learned more from this one post from Alex than I could have by actually fishing (like I have been) 100 times in a row. Thanks Alex for your insight.:D

[meesterkim]

Does anyone use flouro for their top shot? pros and cons? thank you. :)

[Gerry Zagorski]

Mono top shot and floro for hook leaders. Part of the reason for floro is its stiffer then mono and therefore better at keeping your hook away from your line and tangling back up on it.

[Islander II]

Does anyone use flouro for their top shot? pros and cons? thank you. :)

I usually use fluro top shot. Everyone seems to say it's a waste but I think it has less stretch than mono, less visible and more abrasion resistant. I buy it in 100 spools so it's not as expensive as buying 25 yard spools. I'll be comparing today to see if one is better than the other, just shorter, around 10'.

[mike1010]

I usually use fluro top shot. Everyone seems to say it's a waste but I think it has less stretch than mono, less visible and more abrasion resistant. I buy it in 100 spools so it's not as expensive as buying 25 yard spools. I'll be comparing today to see if one is better than the other, just shorter, around 10'.

I agree those are good reasons to use fluoro, but found "Ande leader material." It is stiff and hard like fluoro, but about half the price, or less. I'll see how it goes.

[meesterkim]

I usually use fluro top shot. Everyone seems to say it's a waste but I think it has less stretch than mono, less visible and more abrasion resistant. I buy it in 100 spools so it's not as expensive as buying 25 yard spools. I'll be comparing today to see if one is better than the other, just shorter, around 10'.

i buy in 100 yd spools as well. i will be going back to what i am comfortable with in using flouro rather than mono. as long as drag is set correctly, pulling in the pigs should not be a problem.

[kurtisb]

I switched to 80# mono this year after breaking off a couple slobs last year using 60# mono. I used it everywhere I have fished this year from RI down to VA. I have had no problems getting bit and catching fish with 80#. I bring along a 50# mono set up also. When the fishing was tough, I have switched to the 50# rod and found it makes no difference at all. If the fish aren't biting it doesn't matter what size line you have. I'm thinking about buying a spool of 100# Ande to try out down south.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I switched to 80# mono this year after breaking off a couple slobs last year using 60# mono. I used it everywhere I have fished this year from RI down to VA. I have had no problems getting bit and catching fish with 80#. I bring along a 50# mono set up also. When the fishing was tough, I have switched to the 50# rod and found it makes no difference at all. If the fish aren't biting it doesn't matter what size line you have. I'm thinking about buying a spool of 100# Ande to try out down south.

So you use this on your top shot, what are you using for hook leaders, the same??

[kurtisb]

So you use this on your top shot, what are you using for hook leaders, the same??

I use the German perlon mono sold by Trik Fish or Triple Fish in 80# for the snelled hooks. I like the softness, stretch and abrasion resistance.

[hartattack]

I use the Perlon (ultra stiff) leaders too. Our own Richie Tropics ties & sells Perlon-snelled Tog hooks (Snafu, Sliders, Single) and Perlon leader material - highly recommended !

[bulletbob]

I use the German perlon mono sold by Trik Fish or Triple Fish in 80# for the snelled hooks. I like the softness, stretch and abrasion resistance.

80 lb mono for the hooks??. wow.... Its funny, to me that seems perfectly fine for a fish that bites its food out of tangled wreckage thats festooned with cables, wires, and junk.. However a lot of good fishermen including some very fine charter/party boat captains would say thats way too heavy and you won't get bit on slow days.. The "new norm" for slow pick days is 30 lb, max flouro... To me it sounds ridiculous, but I have read it right on these pages a bunch of times. glad you do well with heavy mono leaders.. This past year a charter boat mate on a sea bass trip retied my rigs saying they were too heavy at 40 lbs.. He went down to 30... i kept switching the 2 rods I brought one with his rigs and one with mine.. Not a rats ass worth of difference in the strike rate.. Personally, I think you could use wire line for hook snells and catch tog...bob

[MrAC1980]

All depends where you're fishing. Northern NJ esp inshore where its mostly rock piles you can get away with the light stuff. But once the bite moves offshore or southerly where you're fishing all wreckage, then heavy is the way to go. I know a capt that has broken off 65lb pp and 80lb leader on fish that was taking drag!! :eek::eek::eek:
Who's going to break the 30lb record??? :D

[bulletbob]

All depends where you're fishing. Northern NJ esp inshore where its mostly rock piles you can get away with the light stuff. But once the bite moves offshore or southerly where you're fishing all wreckage, then heavy is the way to go. I know a capt that has broken off 65lb pp and 80lb leader on fish that was taking drag!! :eek::eek::eek:
Who's going to break the 30lb record??? :D

That line was probably badly frayed, or rubbed against something during the battle... I can't imagine a tog big enough to break 65 PP line.. However I DO hope to hang one like that someday. I was thinking more about the fact that some very good, very knowledgable, tog fishermen are now saying 30 lb max is whats needed on some days to get tog to bite,, The concept sounds alien to me, but those guys know a lot more, and catch a lot more than I will.. Yet other guys use 80 lb, and are happy with their catch rate. Seems like a dichotomy..... bob

[MrAC1980]

I was on the OE this past fall fishing northerly and I'll admit, there was a particular asian gent (he knows who he is, lol) fishing to the left of me with 30lb floro and outfished me. So I wont count it out that some days the line choice does make a difference.

[SaltLife1980]

Top shot I run 40# mono but my leader I went as low as 25# floro and as high as 50# floro this season. The one trip i went light and I out fished pops who was using the 50#. So idk.. its hit or miss.. I have tied rigs with the whole range of floro for any situation

[MVP]

I have noticed also that under certain conditions and days guys who fish lighter leader will get bit more. Tommy Joseph proved it to me about 3 years ago as we were grinding to put a decent catch together one day. He fished a total of about 40 minutes that day using a light rod that had 20 lb test mono on that reel and doubled my catch for the whole day in that short of time.
That being said when heading down south or targeting a trophy you will get your heart broken fishing the light stuff as i have had 60-80 lb leader broken fishing further south especially when they are fishing wrecks as they do not have that much natural bottom we have here in our area. I am not looking for numbers when i head down south and now only fish 80 top shot and 80 lb leader.