Blackfishing Rods

[Gerry Zagorski]

I know everyone has their own preferences as far as rods are concerned. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer by any means and compared other toggers I suck. I have however noticed that while fishing inshore a lighter rod (lighter in weight) makes a big difference for me in detecting bites, especially the more subtle ones.

I think a big part of that when coupled with a lighter reel is the fact that it requires a lot less effort and a less firm grip to steady a lighter set up. This is especially true when you are at the rail, dipping and raising your pole tip to meet the up and down movement of the boat and seas. Since the set up is lighter and you are not griping it as tightly you get more sensativty.

That being said I've seen some guys with much heavier rods and reels that fish mono put on a clinic when everyone else is struggling. I happen to think some of that is they are not feeling all the bites. Instead, they are only feeling the right bites and therefor are not tempted to swing at the wrong ones.

Anyone have any opinions on this???

It guess it all depends on your style of fishing but for me, the lighter the rod and reel the better.

[hammer4reel]

I like feeling all the nibbles and scratches. using a sensitive tip.

I just had an 1143 made and went one size up from the normal tip size I use.
It only lets me feel the right tugs, but I dont like it as I want to feel ALL the stuff going on before the right tug happens.

I think it keeps you more ready to pull the trigger when you should be swinging

[Joey Dah Fish]

My opinion is this. Fish the way you like. I disagree with only some of what my larger less handsome brother has to say. I agree with lighter rod and reel. But yes huge giant but here. Light in the sense to rod weight in your hands not light action. But do disagree totally with the lighten sink comment. I seem to find that heavier weight definitely help me to be sure I'm A on the bottom and B when the bite comes it's tugging on my line harder because it's less apt to move my weight and my line will feel the bite better. Just my thoughts. To each his own just my 25 cents here. I'm no sharpie either but I have been taking lessons and getting better :D

[Gerry Zagorski]

Yes my older and less handsome brother, a light rod as far a weight is concerned, but it has to have a good solid backbone to get the fish up and out of the snags once you set the hook or you're done.

For once, we finally agree on something, I think ;)

[Joey Dah Fish]

Yes my older and less handsome brother, a light rod as far a weight is concerned, but it has to have a good solid backbone to get the fish up and out of the snags once you set the hook or you're done.

For once, we finally agree on something, I think ;)

Hallelujah

[RussH]

I'm a fan of heavy for blackfish. Heavy line, heavy leader, heavy sinkers, heavy reel. I use one of Bogans Fish poisons with an Avet MXL on it as my main stick. I also have a Lamiglass with a Daiwa 300 I don't like nearly as much.

I see the guys fishing noodle rods for blackfish and yeah it looks fun, but it also goes against everything I ever learned. With the 40# braid and the 60# flourocarben leader I don't feel as much as the guys fishing 20# braid and 30# leader and I get less fish, but I'm also not swinging every single time I feel a scratch.

What I will say is it's a LOT easier to cast with one of those fast action super light rod setups. I'm absolutely terrible casting with the Avet. It's heavy, clumsy, and I end up getting minor amounts of backlash that cut my cast short anyway. Fortunately you don't usually have to cast black fishing. And it could just be me being a crappy caster with no anti-reverse.

To me blackfish is so good because it's so simple and yet deviously complex. I also don't need my rod to bend in half on every single fish I reel up.

[frugalfisherman]

On the NK3 last week I was using my heavier 7 1/2 Fish Poison rod with 50lb braid and 40lb mono shocker. Got stuck in the rocks numerous times and bounced out almost all of them losing one rig and a sinker. The 2 guys next to me had light rods with I think was 25lb braid and no shocker. Each one must have busted off 15-20 times because they couldn't whip out the rigs from the rocks and the alterative is putting the tip down and pulling which usually never turns out well. I think this is also something to consider when choosing your set-up. Of course I did get skunked on the trip and one of the 2 guys had about a 4 pounder.

[Kevin Bogan]

Gerry, here's my opinion.
I would like to touch off on a couple topics that do not apply to rods first, then get to rods.
A good fisherman: I'm sure we see a sharpy now and then kickin ass and we assume, "hey this guy is a 'good fisherman'. Being a good fisherman requires that you are "focused", and practice the sport regulary. You eventually develop a "confidence" that helps you know what to do in certain situations. How to work drag and rod taper, when to strike, how to fight bottom feeders, versus topwater fish.
Luck: This is a small but important part of it. I have seen numerous times where one angler catches three in a row, starts to shoot his mouth off, and for some reason gets cold. What happened, he was good ten minutes ago, but now the other guys are catching.:confused: Don't worry about the otjher guys. Just fish.
Now the rod. The most common argument is Graphite versus glass, or composite, a mixture of the two. Industry advertising makes it sound like graphite is "lighter, stronger and more sensitive".
Lightweight: A graphite rod blank weighs maybe an ounce or two less than a glass blank. If that little weight concerns someone, they should join the senior women's sewing club. How are you going to catch the BIG FISH if you are worried about something as little as a couple of ounces.
Stronger: I have never in my life seen a graphite rod that is stronger than glass. This "FACT" has been pushed on us for years and it's just not true. In fact not even close. How many broken graphite rods do you have?
Sensitive: Another advertising HOAX. Sensitivity is an ABILITY. You learn from experience I have fished the Mud Hole for many winters in around 200' water. Glass rod/mono/all the wrong stuff. Go out in a stiff Northwesterly in January, on a cold deck and you learn real quick how to "Feel". It has been, and always will be an Ability. Yes the graphite material is "more sensitive" but, is it an advantage? NO! Keep in mind that any one, of any skill level can say, "I use braid, I use Graphite, I feel the fish fart", but if that guy has that much confidence he will catch, he is focused.
Gerry, good question, but the question should be "how do I catch a Blackfish"?
Here are a few tips that will make most guys more productive.
Flat footed: You can tell when an angler doesn't have a prayer when they stand looking at the horizon. You want to stand sideways to the rail, rod tip low, towards the water. This allows a strong 'PIVOT' when lifting the rod tip. You are able to use your wrist action to lift FAST and more importantly FOLLOW THROUGH. Follow through is the key. No different than swinging a baseball bat or golf club, or throwing a ball.
Check Swing: This is the failure of most anglers. They get a bite and they lift up HALFWAY, and drop the tip. What they did was pull the BELLY out of their line, and just let the fish know there is trouble above. They chased the fish away. Keep the tip low, when you think it's the right time to strike the fish, lift hard and follow through. As the tip bends while the fish is being hooked, you have the momentum on your side. Keep the tip up, start cranking, and slowly lower the tip when you feel he is far enough off the wreck. This is where I like the use of E-glass. It has a softness to the shaft that acts as a shock absorber that helps to control the fish, and helps prevent line breakage, or a lip hooked fish from coming dislodged.
3-6': when you have the fish about 6' off the wreck you can keep the rod a bit more level and when the fish surges you can give and take as you see fit. I do like to use a bit of slippage on my drag, again to act as a shock absorber. Never drop the rod tip quickly.
FOCUS: Don't worry about the other guys. Watch the tip, if you get the slightest bite, you will both feel it, and SEE IT.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Thanks for taking the time and giving the detailed explanation Kevin....

[SplitShot]

Yeah.... Thanks Kevin! :)

[bunker dunker]

that's what I did.walk into kevins and asked for a good rod for blackfish.now I own 2,enough said

[Garone Custom Rods]

Gerry,

As far as guys fishing mono goes some guys who use mono are just great blackfish fishermen and know what to swing at, however at times I have seen times when you are just getting scratch bites with braid and you put mono in the water and the rod will literally jump up and down 3'. I have also seen sinker weight make a huge difference in the bites you get. 8 oz may hold just fine but you are getting scratch bites, put on a 10 or 12 oz and drop it down. Next thing you know those scratches turn into monster bites. Do these things work every time, but sometimes it makes a huge difference.

Now when it comes to rods everyone has their personal preference. I know one rod isn't right for everyone or every situation. There are great blackfishing blanks made from graphite, glass and composites. It's all about finding the right blank to fit what the customer wants. A big part of that is the angler actually has an idea of what they are looking for and when they do it makes my job a lot easier.

For some guys who don't have a lot of experience or just haven't gotten the hang of it yet I think a rod that will handle the weight but has a soft enough tip so they aren's swinging at the wrong bites, that is why for most guys an all graphite rod is not the way to go because it transfers too much of the bite from the tip to the hands. I also think a moderate fast bend is usually the right fit for most anglers because it will absorb the shock then a fish surges, but still have the power to lift the fish away from structure when you swing and also to stop a fish when it tries to run back into the structure. Being able to absorb the shock is important because it allows you to fish higher drag without worrying about breaking fish off.

Here are a list of some of the most popular blanks customers have been choosing and a little bit about each. These are all either graphite or graphite E-glass composites. For those of you guys who want to try fishing mono try something a little stiffer than the rod you fish braid with. You need a stiffer tip to pick up the added belly in yout line when fishing mono.

United Composites Challenger Elite 700L
7' Composite construction rated 15-30# Moderate fast action that bends like glass but at a fraction of the weight (the blank weighs under 4 oz) handles 6-12 oz with ease. This is my favorite rod for fishing braid inshore shallow water on a charter or small boat.

United Composites Challenger Elite 700M
7' Composite construction rated 20-40# Moderate fast action a step up in power from the L with a slightly stiffer tip and more power but still in a lite weight package. Handles 8-16 oz and is perfect for fishing deeper water big fish or for those guys who like a stiffer feeling rod. I will fish this one with both braid and mono on the charter and private boats.

United Composites Challenger Elite 800 mega
8' Composite construction rated 25-40# Longer length and has a deeper bend than the 700's. Great all around rod for the party boat or guys who like longer rods. Excellent all around rod for braid both inshore and in the deeper water with 6-12 oz.

United Composited US 70MH, 76MH, 80MH
7', 7'6", or 8' Graphite construction rated 15-30# Fast action with a soft tip great for shallow water early season tog with 6-10 oz. it is available in 7', 7'6" and 8' lengths. Our fearless leaders brother Joey Da Fish landed his personal best 13-3/4# on this rod a few weeks ago. For those of you that like the Seeker Inshore Lite this blank is very similar but lighter in weight

United Composites US 78 mega, 80 mega
7'8" or 8' Graphite construction rated 20-40# This one has a faster tip that becomes a bit more moderate when the rod loads up with a big fish. Great for those guys who like a little crisper feel than the composites but don't want a stiff baseball bat. This is a great rod for both inshore and in the deep, 8-14 oz sinkers and has the power to land big ones. This blank has landed fish over 20# (NY state record Gregg Nardiello) and works well with both braid and mono.

United Composites US 80 mega-bass
8' Graphite construction rated 15-40# with a moderate glass bend and the light weight of graphite. If you are a fan of glass but want to check out a lighter weight option this might be the blank for you. Handles 6-12 oz sinkers

Black Hole Challenger Bank 731M
7'3" Graphite construction rated 20-25# Another great option for those guys who like a crisp feeling graphite rod with a moderate fast action. Light weight and great for inshore drops with 4-8 oz.

Black Hole Challenger Bank 761MH
7'6" Graphite construction rated 20-40# step up from the M and a bit longer light weight. This is great for both inshore and deeper water drops with 6-12 oz.

There are still some great glass blanks but they are getting harder and harder to come by (Lami 1143F ect) and these new composites are able to do the same job at a fraction of the weight. Although you can do the job with a heavier outfit it is a lot more fun and easier to do it with something thats a fraction of the weight. A lot of these rods finished come out of the shop under 10 oz and paired with todays new light weight reels like the new Daiwa Saltiga and Shimano Torium they are half the weight or the stuff available just a few years ago.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Thanks Mike. I'm too am a firm believer, especially Blackfishing, it's not a one size fits all proposition. A lot of it has to do with your fishing style, personal preferences and if you're fishing shallow or deep and and last but not least what you are confident in.

Some great advise Mike.

[kurtisb]

Gerry,

As far as guys fishing mono goes some guys who use mono are just great blackfish fishermen and know what to swing at, however at times I have seen times when you are just getting scratch bites with braid and you put mono in the water and the rod will literally jump up and down 3'. I have also seen sinker weight make a huge difference in the bites you get. 8 oz may hold just fine but you are getting scratch bites, put on a 10 or 12 oz and drop it down. Next thing you know those scratches turn into monster bites. Do these things work every time, but sometimes it makes a huge difference.

Now when it comes to rods everyone has their personal preference. I know one rod isn't right for everyone or every situation. There are great blackfishing blanks made from graphite, glass and composites. It's all about finding the right blank to fit what the customer wants. A big part of that is the angler actually has an idea of what they are looking for and when they do it makes my job a lot easier.

For some guys who don't have a lot of experience or just haven't gotten the hang of it yet I think a rod that will handle the weight but has a soft enough tip so they aren's swinging at the wrong bites, that is why for most guys an all graphite rod is not the way to go because it transfers too much of the bite from the tip to the hands. I also think a moderate fast bend is usually the right fit for most anglers because it will absorb the shock then a fish surges, but still have the power to lift the fish away from structure when you swing and also to stop a fish when it tries to run back into the structure. Being able to absorb the shock is important because it allows you to fish higher drag without worrying about breaking fish off.

Here are a list of some of the most popular blanks customers have been choosing and a little bit about each. These are all either graphite or graphite E-glass composites. For those of you guys who want to try fishing mono try something a little stiffer than the rod you fish braid with. You need a stiffer tip to pick up the added belly in yout line when fishing mono.

United Composites Challenger Elite 700L
7' Composite construction rated 15-30# Moderate fast action that bends like glass but at a fraction of the weight (the blank weighs under 4 oz) handles 6-12 oz with ease. This is my favorite rod for fishing braid inshore shallow water on a charter or small boat.

United Composites Challenger Elite 700M
7' Composite construction rated 20-40# Moderate fast action a step up in power from the L with a slightly stiffer tip and more power but still in a lite weight package. Handles 8-16 oz and is perfect for fishing deeper water big fish or for those guys who like a stiffer feeling rod. I will fish this one with both braid and mono on the charter and private boats.

United Composites Challenger Elite 800 mega
8' Composite construction rated 25-40# Longer length and has a deeper bend than the 700's. Great all around rod for the party boat or guys who like longer rods. Excellent all around rod for braid both inshore and in the deeper water with 6-12 oz.

United Composited US 70MH, 76MH, 80MH
7', 7'6", or 8' Graphite construction rated 15-30# Fast action with a soft tip great for shallow water early season tog with 6-10 oz. it is available in 7', 7'6" and 8' lengths. Our fearless leaders brother Joey Da Fish landed his personal best 13-3/4# on this rod a few weeks ago. For those of you that like the Seeker Inshore Lite this blank is very similar but lighter in weight

United Composites US 78 mega, 80 mega
7'8" or 8' Graphite construction rated 20-40# This one has a faster tip that becomes a bit more moderate when the rod loads up with a big fish. Great for those guys who like a little crisper feel than the composites but don't want a stiff baseball bat. This is a great rod for both inshore and in the deep, 8-14 oz sinkers and has the power to land big ones. This blank has landed fish over 20# (NY state record Gregg Nardiello) and works well with both braid and mono.

United Composites US 80 mega-bass
8' Graphite construction rated 15-40# with a moderate glass bend and the light weight of graphite. If you are a fan of glass but want to check out a lighter weight option this might be the blank for you. Handles 6-12 oz sinkers

Black Hole Challenger Bank 731M
7'3" Graphite construction rated 20-25# Another great option for those guys who like a crisp feeling graphite rod with a moderate fast action. Light weight and great for inshore drops with 4-8 oz.

Black Hole Challenger Bank 761MH
7'6" Graphite construction rated 20-40# step up from the M and a bit longer light weight. This is great for both inshore and deeper water drops with 6-12 oz.

There are still some great glass blanks but they are getting harder and harder to come by (Lami 1143F ect) and these new composites are able to do the same job at a fraction of the weight. Although you can do the job with a heavier outfit it is a lot more fun and easier to do it with something thats a fraction of the weight. A lot of these rods finished come out of the shop under 10 oz and paired with todays new light weight reels like the new Daiwa Saltiga and Shimano Torium they are half the weight or the stuff available just a few years ago.


Mike I think you under rate the Black Hole Challenger Bank 731M. I fish 10 to 12 oz with mine all the time, not a problem.

[Mono Guy]

I'll keep it simple as fishing should be
Inshore Tog
mono 30#
Light glass rod
And plenty of belly in the line
The more slack the better
Tight Lines fella's

[SaltLife1980]

Thats for the advise mike im in the market for a new Tog rod and that def gave me some ideas

[rubberheels]

St Croix Musky rod 7'6'' Nice rod and won't break the bank.