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View Full Version : Future of Fluke Fishery and SSFFF Update


Gerry Zagorski
09-28-2015, 12:32 PM
Please share this with anyone you know that has an interest in our Fluke Fishery. You can click on Thread Tools and Email this page or to share on Facebook, go up to the very top of the page and click on the Blue F.


I was invited to attend the Save the Summer Flounder Fishery Fund meeting on 9/25 and wanted to share with you some insights on this organization and what they are trying to accomplish. Let me first apologize in advance for the length of this post. There is a lot of information here that is important to understand so please bear with me as I try and boil it down for you all.

First of all, for those of you not familiar with the Save the Summer Flounder Fishery Fund (SSFFF) it’s a group of east coast anglers, Professional Captains and fishing tackle industry members who banded together when drastic cuts in the quota were announced and it was all but certain that the season would be a short one.

The SSFFF was founded with the sole purpose of insuring continued public access to a fully restored Summer Flounder (Fluke) Fishery. Back in 2007 SSFFF raised significant privately donated funding which was used to pay for independent population studies and eventually the inclusion of the SSFFF scientific team into the stock assessment process. SSFFF Scientists were at that time able to avert significant quota cutbacks and insure that the fishery continued to be accessible to all anglers, no matter where they lived or fished!

No one in the SSFFF has ever taken a salary. None of the monies contributed, almost $130,000 to date, goes to pay expenses cell phone bills, dinners, travel etc. 100% of the donations go directly to the cause at hand and that is to improve the science associated with assessing Fluke / Summer Flounder Stocks. In the end, the stock assessments results in the quotas we get and that in turn drives the regulations we have in terms of the length of the season, the size and how many fish we can keep.

It's important to note the SSFFF is not lobbying for a particular size limit or season length, any regional advantage or disadvantage ….Rather, their goal is to assure that regulators use the best available science when determining the stocks sizes. The currently used stock modeling tool isn't taking into account a number of key factors like length and sex, which can cause significant error in the model.

Right now, many of the scientists involved believe that the current stock science assessments are flawed, but it's the best they have due to limits in budget resources and Federal funding.

Recently the SSFFF formed a partnership with other stake holders to build the model that will best identify the health of this fishery. This is being done in cooperation with scientists at Cornell and Rutgers University and funding contributed by a number of different sources ,including a commercial Fishermen’s Association, a number of private and professional boat owners, recreational fluke anglers, the ASA which is a tackle industry association, local organizations like the Long Island Sport fishing Federation, RFA NJ chapter, and an assortment of other interested parties all who've come together to help pay for this very expensive, but much needed initiative.

Make sense so far??

OK let’s talk some science:

- Unlike many other species, Fluke are unique because female Fluke are the larger of the 2 sexes
- The larger the female the more eggs they produce
- Female fish can live up to 20 years and males only 10
- In the current model used to access stocks and predict future stocks, the sex of the Fluke are not taken into account.

What does this tell us?? Like us humans, men usually die before their wives but in our case, it’s because we want to (sorry just trying to keep this light and make sure you are paying attention :)

All kidding aside, the current model being used is based on surveys which contain the data of length and age but not sex. What the SSFFF is trying to do, in cooperation with the scientists and other interested parties, is to adopt a sex based model. This will be a far better way to assess the stocks because as mentioned above, female populations are very important and need to be considered for better management.

All the scientists present and everyone at the SSFFF were careful to say that there is no guarantee that what we are doing here is going to positively impact our short term regulations. In fact, based on the latest assessment methods, it appears we are in for a significant 2106 quota reduction. It will not be until the following years that the new model to use sex and the surveys taken to include sex, can have any effect in better assessment and management of the fishery.

So a few key points here:

- Better Science = Better Regulations….This is not an exercise to allow us as fisherman or business people to selfishly exploit a fishery for our short term personal or economic benefit. It’s about doing better job assessing the stocks which drives the long term sustainability of the fishery and sensible assessments which leads to sensible regulations.
- This also means the SSFFF is choosing to deal with this issue based on science, not politics. The monies are being used to fund science, not to give money to a politician in hopes of future political favors. That route is a slippery slope, requires a lot more money than we could ever raise and for me, goes against every moral fabric in my body and last but not least, does nothing to benefit and sustain the fishery.
- 2016 we are looking at a quota reduction and based on the current science, models and methods, there is no way around it. This is an investment in the future.
- In spite of what the regulations are and although you might have the legal right to, if you are a conservation minded fisherman, you might consider releasing big females.

While the SSFFF has raised enough funds to support this project through donations from all of you and other recreational organizations, additional funding is going to be needed to continue the work in 2016. We recreational people, businesses and organizations are not the only source of funding either. The Commercial side is supporting this effort as well and the Scientific Community is trying to secure government grant money too. It's also thought that once we prime the pump with private funding, government funding will follow.

I’m really glad I went to this meeting. I've always been a strong proponent of the SSFFF, what their mission is and how they go about trying to effect change. They are not trying to boil the ocean here or buy Politicians…. Instead they are taking the high road and are laser beam focus on one specific species that is important to us all and trying to make a difference with better Science.

Better Science = Better Regulations and a long term sustainable Fluke fishery that benefits us all.

Thanks for bearing with me here and for all the generous donations you've made in the past.

I hope you will all consider financially supporting the SSFFF as the needs arise for additional funding in 2016.

For more information on the SSFFF and to donate please visit www.ssfff.net

Gerry Zagorski
09-28-2015, 01:43 PM
ASA Donation to the SSFFF

FishAmerica Foundation Awards $10,000 to Support Summer Flounder Science

To help advance fisheries science and promote improved fishing access to
summer flounder, the American Sportfishing Association has awarded $10,000
through the FishAmerica Foundation to support the Save the Summer Flounder
Fishery Fund (SSFFF). The foundation’s grant will be leveraged with $50,000
in additional matching funds from other organizations and agencies.

“The FishAmerica Foundation is proud to support SSFFF on their initiative to
advance fisheries science and promote improved fishing access to summer
flounder for those who enjoy it and depend on its survival,” said Mike
Nussman, president and CEO of the American Sportfishing Association (ASA).
“The recent decision by the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council to
significantly cut the summer flounder recreational harvest in 2016 makes
this all the more important.”

The SSFFF is working with scientists from Cornell, Rutgers and other
universities, along with the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), to
develop a more comprehensive summer flounder model that more accurately
portrays the size and composition of the fishery. Dr. Pat Sullivan from
Cornell University is leading the effort on developing the new stock
synthesis model, which he hopes will be ready for review by the summer
flounder stock assessment scheduled for 2016. The new model, if accepted by
NMFS, will lead to better, more accurate fisheries management.

“ASA has, from day one, been in the forefront of supporting this effort for
better science, and on behalf of the SSFFF board, I extend my appreciation
to the foundation,” said Nick Cicero, SSFFF board member . “With luck, this
may be the start of a new way of dealing with NMFS and the beginning of a
more cooperative relationship between all user groups.”

As ASA’s research and conservation foundation, the FishAmerica Foundation
empowers local communities to invest in improving sportfishing opportunities
and habitat conservation through matching funding and volunteer support

Rubberhead
09-28-2015, 07:37 PM
Thanks for sharing Gerry. Very informative. I'm on board

MVP
09-28-2015, 07:58 PM
Thanks Gerry for sharing info

MudCat08
09-28-2015, 08:14 PM
Is it true that most of the 18" and larger fish that are taken are females?

If so then a lot of the shorts are males, and the shortage that this causes will mean diminishing fluke populations over time (regardless of increasing the size regulation).

Based on all the scientific research, do any males reach 18" or larger in their lifetime?

If you know the answers to these questions, please let us know!

Gerry Zagorski
09-29-2015, 07:52 AM
I didn't know but I found this on the NOAA site.

Females grow faster than males; males attain a maximum age and length of about 7 years and 24 inches respectively, as compared with 12 years and 32 inches for females. Summer flounder are sexually mature by age 2.

Gerry Zagorski
09-29-2015, 10:23 AM
Most Fluke over 24 inches are very likely to be Female and the bigger the fish the more eggs they will lay.

I don't have any issues with people keeping their legal limits, but I'll certainly be a bit more likely to be releasing the bigger ones and keep the smaller ones for the table.

That's just me and to each his own.

CadiShackFishing
09-29-2015, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the information Gerry, I guess in the future we need to do more C&R when it comes to catching the big ones. Of course snap a few pictures quickly before returning them to the water. :D

MudCat08
09-29-2015, 12:57 PM
Ok thank you for the info. it does look like we should release the biggest fish.
I'm in no danger since I've never caught a keeper fluke at 18" or more yet!

Love fishing for them in the surf.

FISHGERE
09-29-2015, 04:18 PM
Sounds all to crazy for me, fishing should not have to be so hard. Gonna sell all my stuff and go to whole foods.will post the yard sale date soon.

CCMPmonmouth
09-29-2015, 04:27 PM
Size limits have very little to do with science. It is just easier to pass to the recreational fishermen than creel limits. Why do think the commercial size is still 14 inches?

snapperbluefish101
09-29-2015, 05:16 PM
I like the sound of a slot limit. 17"-23" or 24" 5 fish, etc. Anyone feels that would work?

Cuz
09-30-2015, 12:03 AM
Gerry, Thank you for spending the time and energy writing to us all this information. Great read.
But I was told by JCAA and SSFFF members that all the data presented doesn't do a bit of good if those making the rules don't want to co-operate or listen. That's the REAL problem. The fishing community needs to know who, by name, are the problem members on each law making committee. Then we all should complain to our politicians to replace that person with a 'qualified' replacement.
I never knew how someone gets appointed to any of the fishing committees. Please fill me and our members in on that subject. How many comittees are making the rules? Please name them all. From the government to the state levels.
Like I said before, fishing is suppose to be a fun sport. It has turned into a frustrating sport with all bag limits, size limits, time limits. How did we get to this point? I can only guess. No one was watching or 'caring' not too many years ago when the fishing was really good. Now we're paying the penalty for not being on watch. I hope everyone who reads this takes it to heart and contributes in some way to show those who are making the rules we really do care.

mike1010
09-30-2015, 08:08 AM
Thanks for the information. Donation made, but why is it not tax deductible? Does the state view SSFF as a trade group rather than a non-profit?

Gerry Zagorski
09-30-2015, 03:04 PM
Mudcat and Cuz I wanted to take a crack at answering your questions:

Mud Slot Limit – While I think the slot fish could help on the recreational side, slot limits are not practical on the commercial side since their catches and what they can keep can’t be controlled to release fish of certain larger sizes…. As you might know, right now commercials are allowed to keep smaller they we recs are to fill their quota. I think that is the way we want it since we don’t want their quota to be filled by targeting larger fish because once again, the larger fish are females and the larger the female fish more eggs they produce.
-------------------------

Cuz Those Making the Rules Don’t want to Cooperate – Yes and that was in fact the case the last time the SSFFF presented the data from the study we funded and the information was presented by Dr. Mark Maunder at the Peer Review.

Presenting that study and data at the time was like you and I crashing a teenager’s party, stopping their music and putting on an oldies record. As a result, it was obviously was met with resistance because they were not prepared for it and we did not fit in. That has since changed and the committee and their Scientists are now exchanging information with our Scientists for the first time. So, the next Peer Review we will not have to crash, we will be an invited guest.

As far as the political powers, does it make sense to try to influence them? Well yes and no. The Magnuson Stevens act has some very clear laws where fisheries management is forced by law to take action when certain fish stocks are deemed to be in trouble. This results in stricter regulations by law and in some cases could result in the closure of a fishery. Look what happened to the Cod Fishery up in New England.

We've seen recently where some Political pressure was brought to bear and we now have Politicians leading the charge to try and modify Magnuson Stevens to allow for some Flexibility. That is great since it could temporarily help avert short term stricter regulations and or closures. However, at the end of the day everything comes back to stock assessments and the science behind those assessments. That is to say, if a certain stock is deemed to be in trouble, flexibility or not, it’s eventually going to mean lower quotas which lead to stricter regulations.

The SSFFF is not about bringing political pressure to bear, it’s about having the right science in place to do a better job accessing the stock for the long term sustainability of the fishery.

I think this is the high road for a variety of reasons.
- It’s a long term fix, not a short term political tactic for short term gain
- It has the best interest of the fishery in mind
- You can argue all day long about the flawed assessment methods but until they are changed nothing will change. (RIP Yogi)

Take a look at the Sea Bass Fishery…. This is a perfect example where the assessment science is flawed which drives the regulations. You or I would be hard pressed to drop a bait down on any rock or reef and not catch a Sea Bass… Yet here we are with restricted regulations that assume this fishery is in trouble.

Lastly, it’s important to note again that this is not an attempt to exploit a fishery for our short term economic or personal gain. It’s about the long term sustainability of the Fishery by using better science.

Having said that, will what the SSFFF is attempting to do with better science get us more favorable regs?? Maybe, maybe not. It will however allow us to make more intelligent assessments of the stock and therefore be given the right regulations to manage it.

This is my mind is the right thing to do and why I says it the "high road". If based on new and better science, the stock really is in trouble, we may have to suck it up with stricter regulations. Fact is we need better science to make those assessments and not go the way of the Sea Bass.

Hope this make sense.

reason162
09-30-2015, 05:09 PM
Sounds all to crazy for me, fishing should not have to be so hard.

Fishing is hard, and so is science.

Cuz
09-30-2015, 09:11 PM
Gerry, Most people know nothing about the fishing advisory boards that enforce our regulations. Can you explain to everyone who they are, what name they use. (Like the NMFS) And lastly what role they play. Start with the international, then national then lastly the state board.
Do you know how many voting members are on each board?
Believe me, when I try to speak to someone about how the system works I get blank looks. And I only know a little about them. Thanks. -Cuz-

Dave A
10-01-2015, 06:03 AM
Thanks for the information. Donation made, but why is it not tax deductible? Does the state view SSFF as a trade group rather than a non-profit?

SSFFF is a non-profit 501C-4 organization. That means we have the ability to lobby in Washington if we need to. So far, we have never done that but we wanted to keep that option available to us. That is why donations are not tax deductible.

Gerry Zagorski
10-01-2015, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the information. Donation made, but why is it not tax deductible? Does the state view SSFF as a trade group rather than a non-profit?


Thanks for the donation Mike and see Dave A's reply above about Non Profit status.

Gerry Zagorski
10-01-2015, 09:43 AM
Gerry, Most people know nothing about the fishing advisory boards that enforce our regulations. Can you explain to everyone who they are, what name they use. (Like the NMFS) And lastly what role they play. Start with the international, then national then lastly the state board.
Do you know how many voting members are on each board?
Believe me, when I try to speak to someone about how the system works I get blank looks. And I only know a little about them. Thanks. -Cuz-

Here is a brief synopsis I found on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Marine_Fisheries_Service

Cuz
10-01-2015, 04:58 PM
Here is a brief synopsis I found on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Marine_Fisheries_Service

Good reading. Thank you. Too bad you can't send everyone this website.
There are quite a few other websites people can check though this one to fully understand the whole picture. At least fifty. -Cuz-

Gerry Zagorski
10-01-2015, 05:09 PM
Good reading. Thank you. Too bad you can't send everyone this website.
There are quite a few other websites people can check though this one to fully understand the whole picture. At least fifty. -Cuz-
Not sure what you mean by "send everyone this website"

If what you mean is send this post to people's email addresses, all you need to do is click on Thread Tools above.

dales529
10-01-2015, 06:02 PM
Gerry,
Great job on this, very informative without the drama (so far). You have been onboard since the beginning and now taken another step to help the cause in a clear and knowledgeable manner. THANKS. Its very important we keep the focus of making sure these studies are funded regardless of the outcome so at least the regulations have some real scientific basis.
See you soon

Gerry Zagorski
10-01-2015, 10:48 PM
Gerry,
Great job on this, very informative without the drama (so far). You have been onboard since the beginning and now taken another step to help the cause in a clear and knowledgeable manner. THANKS. Its very important we keep the focus of making sure these studies are funded regardless of the outcome so at least the regulations have some real scientific basis.
See you soon


Thanks Dave. Just trying to support the people doing all the real work and that have a lot more time, effort and sweat into this then I do. Not sure what keeps them going but they deserve all the support we can muster.

Capt Sal
10-04-2015, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the information. Donation made, but why is it not tax deductible? Does the state view SSFF as a trade group rather than a non-profit?

Ask governor Christie. He probably never heard of it.

SNAPS
10-10-2015, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the claricication seems simple to me throw the bigguns back they are the female breeders keep couple smaller ones they are males .

So the science the govt is usin is flawed hilarious in this day and age surrounded by technology they didnt know ?

joetheplumber
11-08-2015, 09:59 AM
have you heard what the regulations will be next year? 2016 fluke fish??