Cormorants

[Boston Pete]

What do you guys think of cormorants hurting our fluke/small fish stock? I see more and more each year, I've seen them come up with blackfish in 30' of water and small small flounder/fluke. These things are always in the water and always seem to be diving for food.

I'm really not abount shooting/hunting but I wouldn't mind seeing an open season on these bastard birds. IDK if fluke or blackfish spawn here but I do know these things are eating alot of small/Juvenile fish and was wondering if they are hurting our future fish.

[Capt Joe]

Eating/Shitting machines - a good cormorant is a dead cormorant!

[bunker dunker]

x2 w/ capt joe.they are bad!!!!read some of the article about them and the great lakes.big problem

[Capt. Debbie]

They may feel that way about us too. LMAO

Eating/Shitting machines - a good cormorant is a dead cormorant!

[JIMMY L]

I,ve been complaining to Fish And Wildlife for years.They stock 400 trout and the the devil birds eat 200.Same reply every time. 'We're studying the problem." These birds are reproducing like rabbits and its so obvious to fresh and salt water anglers that the stocks of fish are affected.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Big problem in Lake Ontario and 1000 Islands region. More and more of them every year and the clear water allows them to hunt more effectively and are being blamed for the fall off of the Small mouth fishery.

Here it seems like any buoy on the water has one on it and on the towers there are 20 or more. They are definitely taking a lot of fish.

[nutleysigns]

i took this picture ... bullhead catfish

[bunker dunker]

they say they can eat up to 6lbs of fish per day.thats a whole lot of baby fluke.

[Joey Dah Fish]

There you guys go trying to control Mother Nature. It seems to me if the food stock was low many would die or in nature the offspring would control itself by having less. I think though sometimes they are a PIA they prove there is a healthy food supply.

[Boston Pete]

But Joey, if that is correct (6lbs. of fish) that is alot of baby fluke/blackfish. 20 years ago I don't remember seeing them around.

According to reports fluke fishing is way down, with reports like this from the partyboat capts. ----"some had 3 fish and almost everyone went home with a fish for dinner"...... this is a good day on the water.

When I 1st moved here I used to fish a 1/2 day boat and would always come home with at least 3-4 keepers and would limit a few times -8 fish.

The back of Raritan used to be loaded with fluke, now you can do a 20 min. drift without a bite or a short.

I'm not saying these birds are the cause of the decline but they definitely are hurting the stocks.

[Joey Dah Fish]

But Joey, if that is correct (6lbs. of fish) that is alot of baby fluke/blackfish. 20 years ago I don't remember seeing them around.

According to reports fluke fishing is way down, with reports like this from the partyboat capts. ----"some had 3 fish and almost everyone went home with a fish for dinner"...... this is a good day on the water.

When I 1st moved here I used to fish a 1/2 day boat and would always come home with at least 3-4 keepers and would limit a few times -8 fish.

The back of Raritan used to be loaded with fluke, now you can do a 20 min. drift without a bite or a short.

I'm not saying these birds are the cause of the decline but they definitely are hurting the stocks.
I've been wrong before :D just my opinion. I think it's the regs that are the problem though

[Jersey Charlie]

They are protected, on the no shoot list. Until F&G changes that, they will grow in greater numbers.

[Jarhead]

Cormorants fish by sight. I'm pretty sure they're taking fish near the surface that are easy, plentiful and they can see (like bunker), not the bottom dwelling fish that they can't see.

[captmark]

Maine and Mass has opened up Commarandt hunting since they know what they are doing to their fish population, maybe one day NJ will wake up and at least open a partial season to knock down the population

[dakota560]

Cormorants fish by sight. I'm pretty sure they're taking fish near the surface that are easy, plentiful and they can see (like bunker), not the bottom dwelling fish that they can't see.

With all due respect you couldn't be more wrong. Cormorants do I guess fish by sight but they take many fish from the bottom, maybe even more than from the top of the water column. I've seen quite a few flounder, small to fairly large, become their dinner in shark river this spring and have seen many small black fish be swallowed on the surface in 30 to 40 ft of water. I've never seen them with a bunker, it actually seems like they prey more on bottom dwellers than fish higher up in the water column. Either way, they HAVE to be having a negative impact on fluke, flounder, blackfish etc.

[Capt Joe]

Cormorants fish by sight. I'm pretty sure they're taking fish near the surface that are easy, plentiful and they can see (like bunker), not the bottom dwelling fish that they can't see.

Incorrect!

[Jarhead]

I may be wrong... it's happened before

[NJ219bands]

www.thestate.com/news/local/article13846073.html

[Duffman]

Wonder what they taste like?....and don't say chicken!!!

[Boston Pete]

Thank you NJ210bands, that's a great read and pretty head shaking. Definitely worth the read.

A few things I found surprising ::
496 hunters killed 11,653 cormorants in a month on 2 lakes.
A study revealed average cormorant had 8 fish in it's belly.
2008 there were an estimate of 6000 cormorants in recent years it's ballooned to 25,000.

[FishnChips]

I fish the newark watersheds for the last 25 years .up until 3 years ago never seen them . Now were competing with them. Talk to f&g he said was not aware of a problem i said to look at tree see them he said so there birds! Kn0w you what we are up against. I say we need a committey to state. To kill the birds

[Capt Sal]

When they stock the smolts in the Lake Ontario the comorants have a feast. The locals shoot them.r

[Capt Joe]

Talk to f&g he said was not aware of a problem ....... kill the birds

That pretty much sums up F & G!!!!;)

[Quanman]

Wonder what they taste like?....and don't say chicken!!!

rumor is they taste like duck!!!!

Coming soon to a market near you......

[laketrout]

Cormorants killed the fishing at round valley. Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise. I was a Rvta member for 25 years and they decimated the alewife population in that lake. I have personally hooked them as they attempted to take my live bait on my trolling rigs down 35 feet. They are doing the same on Lake Ontario and their population is exploding despite the attempts of reduction in that area.

[FishnChips]

Didn't they feed black pellets that poison them up there!

[laketrout]

Didn't they feed black pellets that poison them up there!

They spray vegetable oil on the eggs.

[Wilson]

Wonder what they taste like?....and don't say chicken!!!
The taste is between a California Condor and a Spotted Owl with a hint of Bald Eagle:rolleyes:

I hate those effing Cormorants.

[skate king]

They spray vegetable oil on the eggs.

Anybody have any comments about Gannets?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Anybody have any comments about Gannets?

They usually don't hang around too long... Early Spring and the again late fall when the herring are around and they split. The Cormorants are here practically all year and I believe are much better swimmers and more effective hunters.

[Delawareriver]

There you guys go trying to control Mother Nature. It seems to me if the food stock was low many would die or in nature the offspring would control itself by having less. I think though sometimes they are a PIA they prove there is a healthy food supply.

So we should let them deplete their food source, kill fisheries then starve to death? How bout just make a management plan to keep their population at healthy level? That's the whole idea of conservation is to keep populations at healthy sustainable numbers without having populations crash

[skate king]

Thanks for the fast response Gerry! Love to watch them diving. Had a few take a fish from me but nothing large. I have seen the Cormorants take bigger.

[june181901]

Andrew Zimmern of the Travel Channel ate one in Vietnam and said they were god awful. "One of the worst things he has ever had". As you may or may not know that guy literally has eaten S**T.

[Joey Dah Fish]

So we should let them deplete their food source, kill fisheries then starve to death? How bout just make a management plan to keep their population at healthy level? That's the whole idea of conservation is to keep populations at healthy sustainable numbers without having populations crash

Sorry you disagree Delaware River. I believe Mother Nature will handle her own way. Man has fkd up e erything it touches. I understand your point of view and can appreciate it as well. But remember this. It would be handled by the government making the rules. They have yet to succeed at anything except corruption and wasteful spend while screwing up what they are supposed to fix. If you out them in charge of the dessert their would be a sand shortage in a year.

[Capt Joe]

hmmm, sand for dessert, thats a new one;)

[flyersnfluke]

The breeding population of Double-crested Cormorants has greatly increased in the NY/NJ area. The larger colonies are on hoffman and swinburne islands (off of staten island, near the verazzano), derelict barges along the kill van kull (south west of the bayonne bridge), and a few islands in and around jamaica bay. The nests you see on bug lights and other water structures pale in comparison to the large colonies. One issue with the cormorants is that they will often nest in the higher trees where heron/egret/ibis colonies are (such as hoffman island), but their guano is so nitrogen rich that it kills the trees. The cormorants will nest in the open, but the wading birds require some vegetation/shade, and are often displaced once cormorants become abundant within the wading bird colonies.

Although cormorants have certainly increased in marine waters in this region, I doubt they have as much of an impact on fish populations as the number of us fishing day in and day out in these waters (recreational and commercial). Cormorant numbers decrease in winter (double-crested corms migrate, with local birds replaced from birds migrating from the north, and we get a small inclux of great cormorants) but populations of several species of cold water fish (winter flounder and whiting) are way down, that's not from cormorant pressure. Check out the waters in sandy hook bay, the reach channel, and all along sandy hook, sometimes it's like a parking lot with boats out there, do you think the thousands of people fishing off these areas on weekends/weekdays have less of an impact than the few hundred cormorants feeding there? In fresh water the cormorants have a much greater negative impact because they deplete the fish populations faster than they can reproduce and mature; these populations are smaller than marine fish populations and do not benefit from the recruitment of new fish through migration/dispersal.

As for Gannets (Northern Gannet), they are highly migratory, with larger numbers observed here in spring (april is peak) and fall. In Spring they are migrating to the breeding grounds (largest colonies in the eastern north atlantic, others in gulf of st lawrence and off newfoundland). The large migrating groups of gannets are generally feeding on herring and bunker in these areas, and if sand lance (sand eels) are abundant they'll feed on those as well.

[Boston Pete]

flyernsfluke --- I totally disagree with your statement that there are hundreds of cormorants:: I would say there are thousands in our waters.




Did you read the article NJ210bands posted?

496 hunters killed 11,653 cormorants in a month on 2 lakes.
A study revealed average cormorant had 8 fish in it's belly.
2008 there were an estimate of 6000 cormorants in recent years it's ballooned to 25,000.

I don't know any fisherman that goes out every day and catches/keeps 8 fish.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Based on what I see I'm thinking more then a hundred in the NY bite area too... There are 30 or more on just on each of the range towers off of Sandy Hook at any given time. Only reason there are not more is because there is not more room on the towers.

If it's correct that they are killing 8 fish per day, then they are killing a lot more fish then recreational fisherman do.

Lets play this out with some assumptions for a day.

200 Cormorants x 8 fish per day is 1600 fish.

Same day lets say on the high side there are 400 fisherman and they each keep 2 fish so that's 800 fish....

[Bass Kicker]

I hate those birds. I trout fish a lot by my house and i see them eating these beautiful trout all the time. There are so many in the lake that if you have one on you might catch a cormorant as well. Those birds definately hurt the fish populations in lakes and especially the oceans. I would love to see an open season on them but im not about hunting the birds.

[flyersnfluke]

Hi Gerry and others,

There are over 1300 breeding pair of cormorants in the ny bight area. The closer colonies are in Jamaica bay and Hoffman and Swinburne islands, there are 2 others on the western edge of long island sound (I assume these birds are feeding in long island sound).

I did read the article, and I am certainly in favor of controlling cormorant populations (breeding colonies) that are near lakes (they're a huge problem in northern NY, and the DEC does not issue enough permits or have a high enough cull rate with the permits they give out). The colonies the article mentions are much much higher than what we have around here. Fish populations in lakes are much more susceptible to crashing due to cormorant feeding because recruitment into lakes is pretty much only possible by stocking them, and with high cormorant numbers stocking doesn't do much.

Locally, in the NY bight, cormorants are spread out where they're feeding; what's the largest number of cormorants you've seen in one area feeding? While they are certainly efficient predators they don't really specialize/target particular species of fish (which we do) , they're very opportunistic. Cormorants are feeding on all kinds of things: crabs, amphipods, spearing, killies, cunner and of course some of the fish we go after (tog, sea bass, fluke etc...). If you're fishing sandy hook bay, the reach channel, or off sandy hook, you'll see cormorants, but the number of people fishing far surpass the number of feeding cormorants, and although we don't always catch as many fish as we'd like, there are times when the bite is on and a lot of the boats do quite well in catching a bunch of fish (and are all of the shorts surviving once we release them). I just don't believe the cormorants are the boogeyman that many make them out to be, I do agree with controlling their populations though, in both fresh and saltwater colonies.

cheers and have a safe Labor Day Weekend

[shresearchdude]

it looks like Flyersnfluke knows his birds.

I can just imagine buck fever on the water!!!!

[FishnChips]

your totally right bass kicker i once caught one trout fishing on a jerk bait . i tried to kill it but somebody told me its a federal offence. p.s lets go fishing up here .rob

[Gerry Zagorski]

Hi Gerry and others,

There are over 1300 breeding pair of cormorants in the ny bight area. The closer colonies are in Jamaica bay and Hoffman and Swinburne islands, there are 2 others on the western edge of long island sound (I assume these birds are feeding in long island sound).

I did read the article, and I am certainly in favor of controlling cormorant populations (breeding colonies) that are near lakes (they're a huge problem in northern NY, and the DEC does not issue enough permits or have a high enough cull rate with the permits they give out). The colonies the article mentions are much much higher than what we have around here. Fish populations in lakes are much more susceptible to crashing due to cormorant feeding because recruitment into lakes is pretty much only possible by stocking them, and with high cormorant numbers stocking doesn't do much.

Locally, in the NY bight, cormorants are spread out where they're feeding; what's the largest number of cormorants you've seen in one area feeding? While they are certainly efficient predators they don't really specialize/target particular species of fish (which we do) , they're very opportunistic. Cormorants are feeding on all kinds of things: crabs, amphipods, spearing, killies, cunner and of course some of the fish we go after (tog, sea bass, fluke etc...). If you're fishing sandy hook bay, the reach channel, or off sandy hook, you'll see cormorants, but the number of people fishing far surpass the number of feeding cormorants, and although we don't always catch as many fish as we'd like, there are times when the bite is on and a lot of the boats do quite well in catching a bunch of fish (and are all of the shorts surviving once we release them). I just don't believe the cormorants are the boogeyman that many make them out to be, I do agree with controlling their populations though, in both fresh and saltwater colonies.

cheers and have a safe Labor Day Weekend

Hats off to you Flyer for making this a logical argument and keeping it civil.

I've been fishing for many more years then I care to mention here but in the last few, I can't remember going out on the bay in the Sandy Hook area and not seeing 1 or 2 actively fishing in every spot I go to. In fact, I was out to lunch the other day and saw 2 actively feeding inside the Atlantic Highlands Marina right in front of me.

I was also in Florida recently fishing the Pine Island Sound and every time we caught a Sea Trout and release it, there were several Cormorants laying in wait for us to release the fish so they could eat it.... It got so bad that we'd stop, catch a fish or 2, they would show up and we'd move to keep them off our trail and from eating what we released.

I think we can agree that these birds need to be kept in check... They are not only great hunters, they are smart, not shy and very opportunistic and will definitely effect fishing in an area if not controlled.

You have a safe and great Labor Day Weekend too and I mean that with all sincerity.

[Delawareriver]

Sorry you disagree Delaware River. I believe Mother Nature will handle her own way. Man has fkd up e erything it touches. I understand your point of view and can appreciate it as well. But remember this. It would be handled by the government making the rules. They have yet to succeed at anything except corruption and wasteful spend while screwing up what they are supposed to fix. If you out them in charge of the dessert their would be a sand shortage in a year.

Whitetails, turkeys, ducks, geese, small game, and bears are all managed in this state, not to mention all the fish species. In modern times no species has ever gone extinct from today's conservation techniques. Maybe poaching and loss of habitat but never from hunting. In fact most game species populations are at or near peak levels, the ones that are not such as whitetail were extremely overpopulated. Yes we have screwed up ecosystems across the world just means we need to manage them for a better balance.

[rumster]

Cormorants fish by sight. I'm pretty sure they're taking fish near the surface that are easy, plentiful and they can see (like bunker), not the bottom dwelling fish that they can't see.

They may fish by sight but they certainly are devouring a lot more than fish that are near the surface. I fish often and have personally seen them with tog, sea bass and fluke/flounder in their mouth.