Whiting @ Wegmans= disgrace...

[bulletbob]

I walked through the Wegmans seafood dept here in Ithaca NY this morning .. Just to see what they had.. Find weird stuff there at times like skate, monk, Hake in varieties I am not accustomed to seeing, they even had Lane Snappers today.. You know, Wegmans.. Home of the $15 a pound Black Sea Bass, which is in the round, not fillets... Live lobster today was $10.99 a pound..
I came up to a display of 6 to 7 inch fish.. about the size of the smelt we would use for fluke or bluefish bait.. Display read thusly
* FRESH WHITING $4.99 a pound...
To my disgust i found they were indeed "our" Whiting, aka Silver Hake,aka
Merluccius Bilinearis... Easily the smallest thinnest, juvenile , most pathetic whiting I had EVER seen.. I had in the past seen 9-11 inch "spikes", but never tiny bait size fish that would barely interest a good size fluke.. No exaggeration at all.. They were all smelt sized.. TINY!.. I walked out annoyed, disgusted, and to be honest a bit frightened.. Is THIS really what boats are netting these days to sell?.. Have the draggers decimated these fish so badly that yearlings or younger are the "catch of the day"?.... I dunno, nothing anyone can do I suppose, but I was just shell shocked.. Are we that hungry for "fresh fish" that we will really buy Whiting that go 6 -7 inches, and will require a dozen to make up a one pound package???.. Sorry for the rant, I am just really pissed off... bob

[frugalfisherman]

I've seen them smaller in the Asian markets.

[dakota560]

This is exactly why every regulation they put on the books will be ignored. Wegman's, Whole Foods, King's all the high end retailers who charge outlandish amount for their products. We suffer the seasonal and daily indignities of keeping an honest day's catch and throw back fish so commercial and corporate concerns can pilfer the ocean and profit from our quota reductions. As far as I'm concerned, I'll regulate what is acceptable and not acceptable aboard my boat which I pay like many probably $13k to $15k a year to operate. Will certainly not keep small juvenile fish but quality fish for the table whether they meet the bureaucrats criteria of legal or not will be filleted and enjoyed as diner at my home as opposed to being thrown back to subsidize the stock so the aforementioned commercial and corporate concerns can charge outrageous prices to consumers for fish at our collective expense. As always this is about profits. OUR resource is being taken away from us so government, large private commercial and Corporate interests can take more of that resource for themselves and make massive amounts of money in the process. Recreational anglers carry the economy on their shoulders yet we get the short end of the stick year in and year out. As long as atrocities like 4 or 5 inch whiting being sold at retail continue, in my opinion there are no justifiable regulations to be observed. When the powers to be start fairly representing recreational concerns and take our interests into consideration then I'll be more than happy to be governed by their legislation. Until then I'll take my chances back at the dock.

Dakota

[Capt. Lou]

May not be ethical but it's seems to be perfectly legal! Oddly enough last year in GOM big whiting catches @ times , like here 40 years ago to some degree!
The way it's trending up there might be one of the few fish you 'll be allowed to catch this coming season !! :mad:

[dakota560]

May not be ethical but it's seems to be perfectly legal! Oddly enough last year in GOM big whiting catches @ times , like here 40 years ago to some degree!
The way it's trending up there might be one of the few fish you 'll be allowed to catch this coming season !! :mad:

Not if they keep selling 4 or 5 inch fish in the markets!

[bulletbob]

Not if they keep selling 4 or 5 inch fish in the markets!

agreed.. Look, I am 60 and have seen a lot of fish on ice over the decades. Usually whiting are a foot each at least..What the hell can you possibly do with a Whiting the size of a big spearing??..
Do they just fry them up in the "whitebait" style, and eat them head fins, ass, gills etc??.. It doesn't make sense.. hell, My $250 FF can distinguish a school of fish that are 5 inches each from one thats a foot each.. I assure you these commericials KNOW damn well whats down there, and have NO compunction about sucking it off the bottom or encircling it.. Its all poundage to them I guess...
I am really disgusted.. bob

[Capt Sal]

The Belford boys net spike whiting because they can. They depleted the whiting to almost extinction and now they net the babies. Very hard to have any respect for these guys.

[bulletbob]

The Belford boys net spike whiting because they can. They depleted the whiting to almost extinction and now they net the babies. Very hard to have any respect for these guys.

Spikes are one thing Capt Sal.. The fish I saw were a lot smaller than spikes.. They were the size of your average fluke bait...
They net these babies because there is a market I guess.. somewhere..... WHO the hell actually buys stuff like this??? You need 5 of them to put between 2 slices of white bread, but only if you leave the head, fins and tail on... bob

[Joey Dah Fish]

I for one could give 2 Sh*ts what any regs says. I will do my thing as I like. I have a much better plan in my head than any government reg. it's only a matter of time before they ban all commercial fishing or the industry kills itself. Greed will do that

[shrimpman steve]

Put me on a commercial boat. They'll never catch another fish. :)

[bulletbob]

Here's what WE would do..


Set up on pile of rubble.. Drop rigs down.. Small tog.. One after another.. We move, or let everything go..

Porgies, sea bass.. same deal..

Fluke in the rivers, bays beachfront.. Most too small?.. We leave and go find bigger ones, or stay, and let what we catch go...

Draggers set up on small fish??.. Dead stinking masses piled 6 feet high.... bob

[courbeco]

The Belford boys net spike whiting because they can. They depleted the whiting to almost extinction and now they net the babies. Very hard to have any respect for these guys.

Capt. Sal,

You are right on the money. The Belford and the Point Boys wiped the stocks out. Agreed, it is difficult to have respect for these guys.:(

[Capt. Debbie]

Wegman's is considered a high end grocer? Really?



This is exactly why every regulation they put on the books will be ignored. Wegman's, Whole Foods, King's all the high end retailers who charge outlandish amount for their products. We suffer the seasonal and daily indignities of keeping an honest day's catch and throw back fish so commercial and corporate concerns can pilfer the ocean and profit from our quota reductions. As far as I'm concerned, I'll regulate what is acceptable and not acceptable aboard my boat which I pay like many probably $13k to $15k a year to operate. Will certainly not keep small juvenile fish but quality fish for the table whether they meet the bureaucrats criteria of legal or not will be filleted and enjoyed as diner at my home as opposed to being thrown back to subsidize the stock so the aforementioned commercial and corporate concerns can charge outrageous prices to consumers for fish at our collective expense. As always this is about profits. OUR resource is being taken away from us so government, large private commercial and Corporate interests can take more of that resource for themselves and make massive amounts of money in the process. Recreational anglers carry the economy on their shoulders yet we get the short end of the stick year in and year out. As long as atrocities like 4 or 5 inch whiting being sold at retail continue, in my opinion there are no justifiable regulations to be observed. When the powers to be start fairly representing recreational concerns and take our interests into consideration then I'll be more than happy to be governed by their legislation. Until then I'll take my chances back at the dock.

Dakota

[dakota560]

Wegman's is considered a high end grocer? Really?

Capt. Frank,

That was your take away from my entire post? REALLY? I was referring to the comment about the high price Wegman's was charging for whiting and other seafood as mentioned in the original posters thread. Does high price sit better with you?

Dakota

[Capt Joe]

capt. Sal,

you are right on the money. The belford and the point boys wiped the stocks out. Agreed, it is difficult to have respect for these guys.:(

100% correct!

[bulletbob]

100% correct!

Can these netters REALLY make money on tiny fish like the whiting I saw??.
Seems to me, if thats what they must bring to market these days, it might be time to move on to other employment... bob

[jigman90]

and you wonder why I didn't go to Washington because I wasn't walking next to commercial fisherman allowed to rape our oceans!

[FASTEDDIE29]

I grew up caching Whiting off a few choice beaches in NJ, mind you I'm only 38 years old. They were a blast to catch and I believe my father and I used to call the bigger ones BATS as in baseball bats. All I remember is some good times catching these fish off the beach in the mid 80's and enjoying a great meal. One of our family staples at Yankee game was bringing a 2 pack of smoked Whiting to the game to snack on with some pretzels. Great memories! They'll be whipped out in no time the way things are going now! Another great memory, another huge loss!!!

[Reel Class]

Bob,

All a product of NE commercial boats vaccuming them up like they did here 30 years ago.

Whiting are making an ever so slight comeback (at least there are a few being caught down here again) but to ever have this fishery get where it was, for so long, is a pipe dream.

Their commercial value is over the top and for comm's, they are easy to locate and even easier to catch.

Sad stuff!

[Capt. Debbie]

Obviously not all you said. But the only part that was not already known.

You dont frequent Asian food markets much? In north NJ there are LOTS!! Their stuff is frequently patently illegal. So no surprise that baby fish are being sold.

NJ has a crab limit of 4.5 inches and they have 1/2 a bushel of 3- 3 1/2inchers all year long. TOTALLY illegal to possess them in NJ no matter where caught. But done EVERY DAMN DAY.

Unfortunately I guess I have gotten used to "Special" rules with illegal fish and crabs sold every day in legitimate super markets. .. Hence Wegman being a high end place was the news to me.

But I do appreciate what you're trying to do by pointing this outrageous crap out ( not about Wegmans:) ).



Capt. Frank,

That was your take away from my entire post? REALLY? I was referring to the comment about the high price Wegman's was charging for whiting and other seafood as mentioned in the original posters thread. Does high price sit better with you?

Dakota

[Capt. Lou]

How do u thinkI feel , I lobbied hard for the two hundred mile limit in the 70's !
We won got all the foreign fleet out of the mud hole etc, BUT what very few of us realized our own fleet would now be turned loose to finish the decimation of these stocks .
When this law was enacted there was virtually no limits on commercial fisheries.if u were a giant tuna fisherman in those days u witnessed as I have on many occasions literally miles at times of floaters. Whiting / ling by the thousands dead floating throughout the mud hole!
By catch dead ended up destroying a viable fishery , most local draggers , cause all the foreign fleet was now gone !

[Capt Sal]

I grew up caching Whiting off a few choice beaches in NJ, mind you I'm only 38 years old. They were a blast to catch and I believe my father and I used to call the bigger ones BATS as in baseball bats. All I remember is some good times catching these fish off the beach in the mid 80's and enjoying a great meal. One of our family staples at Yankee game was bringing a 2 pack of smoked Whiting to the game to snack on with some pretzels. Great memories! They'll be whipped out in no time the way things are going now! Another great memory, another huge loss!!!

It was even better in the sixties and seventies. I am almost thirty years older than you and started my salt water fishing career with my dad and grandfather in the late fifties. Back then the party boats fished all year because we had whiting and ling. It was a hell of a lot easier to make a years pay when you could get in at least ten months of fishing. Now the bulk of the patronage is in six months. Although there is competition amongst the for hire boats,our main competition is fisheries management. Tough business to say the least!

[the1jonc]

I, too, am upset seeing all of the small fish for sale in the markets, Asian, Seabra and otherwise.

As far as Wegmans, I think they are a cut above most of the markets in NJ. They definitely try to attract a more affluent clientele, IMHO.

from Wikipedia- "Most of Wegmans' newer stores are of the "superstore" or "megamarket" type, with a large area, a variety of foods aimed at an upscale clientele, and in many stores, Market Café in-store dining areas."

[Dino]

what did Wegman's say when you let them know about your concerns? ....Or do you just complain to other cranky fisherman on the internet during the 1 month of the year we can't go out and kill fish.

[bulletbob]

I don't go out much and ""kill fish""... I live 225 miles away from the closest salt water.. Most years I kill and eat just a few sunnies and yellow perch, maybe a walleye or two. Caught in local lakes. On a good year I get down to the Shore maybe twice.. .. If I am lucky I take perhaps 2 dozen salt water fish home in a year these days.. Mostly ling sea bass and porgies.. Last year I also caught 2 flounder, and no fluke.. Don't try and paint me as a rabid dog " gotta have MEAT!" type of fisherman.. Its not reality..
In any case did you really expect me to complain to a $9.00 an hour counter clerk about the bait size fish they were selling??.. He/she would have no clue... They have NO reference point as we fishermen do... bob

[Reelron]

Perhaps people can go to this page and let Wegmans know what you think about thier "sustainability" program

http://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10052&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&identifier=CATEGORY_2321

[Dino]

I don't go out much and ""kill fish""... I live 225 miles away from the closest salt water.. Most years I kill and eat just a few sunnies and yellow perch, maybe a walleye or two. Caught in local lakes. On a good year I get down to the Shore maybe twice.. .. If I am lucky I take perhaps 2 dozen salt water fish home in a year these days.. Mostly ling sea bass and porgies.. Last year I also caught 2 flounder, and no fluke.. Don't try and paint me as a rabid dog " gotta have MEAT!" type of fisherman.. Its not reality..
In any case did you really expect me to complain to a $9.00 an hour counter clerk about the bait size fish they were selling??.. He/she would have no clue... They have NO reference point as we fishermen do... bob

my bad !

[Scrubby]

I was in Wegmans this past weekend and saw they had packs of smoked whiting, 2 per pack. I didnt even notice a price beacuse i was so disgusted that we no longer have these fish in our local waters. I just walked out of the store.. The memories of my dad and uncle smoking whiting after a good trip on the long branch pier are exactly that, memories.. It doesnt look good for me to take my kids fishing for whiting any time soon or ever... Sad..

[shresearchdude]

It seems like "Whiting" and really a Silver Hake are part of a "multi-species" trip area for commercial guys. The fish really are collected in most bottom trawls since they tend to be around the bottom area and from my own personal experience they seem to be the most common fish sometimes. Keep in mind that I'm not on the survey boats all the time, yes there are many other numerous species as well so I hope the fans of the spiny dogs don't take offense.
I'm asking around about how the tiny ones get to the markets. There are no restrictions on the size from what I have found so far- there are mesh requirements for the multi-species trips thought-but I'm looking for some more precise info and will check back.:):)

[bulletbob]

It seems like "Whiting" and really a Silver Hake are part of a "multi-species" trip area for commercial guys. The fish really are collected in most bottom trawls since they tend to be around the bottom area and from my own personal experience they seem to be the most common fish sometimes. Keep in mind that I'm not on the survey boats all the time, yes there are many other numerous species as well so I hope the fans of the spiny dogs don't take offense.
I'm asking around about how the tiny ones get to the markets. There are no restrictions on the size from what I have found so far- there are mesh requirements for the multi-species trips thought-but I'm looking for some more precise info and will check back.:):)

Excellent!... Really would like an answer..
. Maybe those baby Whiting are just dead "net trash", and the commercial guys sell them for whatever the market will bear, instead of shoveling them overboard... bob

[shresearchdude]

Hey Bob.

That may just be the case. Utilizing what they have caught and trying to make a few $$.. I suppose that the sized fish you saw could be used in soups????

someone must be buying them....

[Little Sister Charters]

Hey Bob.

That may just be the case. Utilizing what they have caught and trying to make a few $$.. I suppose that the sized fish you saw could be used in soups????

someone must be buying them....

Since the late 70's when there were still BIG whiting, the draggerds in the tri state area discovered a huge market for tiny whiting overseas. The big stuff got marketed in NYC (Fulton) and the small stuff got shipped to Spain where it is still very popular. Since they were getting as much or often more for the small stuff, they started concentrating on it and soon enough, thats all there was as they didn't ever give them a chance to grow. The same has been happening in Point Judith and Gloucester though in Gloucester thereare still some patches of large left (but not for long).....JC

[bulletbob]

Thanks for that excellent and enlightening reply capt. Jason..
So its actually making them money catching and selling Whiting the size of Smelt??.. Scary to say the least.. However there might be a tiny cause for optimism.. maybe.. If there are marketable numbers of those small Whiting around, there must be some breeders as well... Maybe if the commercial pressure on them eased up for a few years.... I know, dreaming...... bob

[shresearchdude]

There are more big ones Bob. On the trawl survey I was on this year the NOAA survey boat kept bringing up the "NEW" record size of all time, it was cool to see. That means that they do get through to that size class.

[bulletbob]

Was that trawl survey done in the NY/NJ area or was it further north??.. Just wondering.
We just don't see many "baseball bats" among the few we see every year in NJ.. Mostly less than a foot, or spikes... bob

[philnichols]

When I started fishing in the 50's there were 180 million people in this country. There were no Asian markets like there are today. Today the population of fish eating humans has doubled with Asians, Hispanics and other fish eating cultures growing every day. Not to mention the proliferation of other fish eating mammals - seals, sea lions, etc. I think that an out of control population that likes to eat fish has a lot to do with the problem. With current administration policy, it will only get worse. All the seafood stores here cater to Hispanics, signs in Spanish, employees Hispanic.

[bulletbob]

yup... very simple.. We killed and ate too many. Doesn't really matter where or how they were caught.. We ate too many, and now there just aren't near as many left. bob