Weakfish Whereabouts

[Billfish715]

Just a few years ago my friend and I were able to entertain ourselves with some outstanding weakfishing late in the summer. We caught fish from Sandy Hook down to Asbury Park during several days of fishing during a two to three week period. The fish were only 10 to about 13 inches but they were all along the beaches for miles. We fished with freshwater outfits and had a ball. Thinking this was the start of a great future for the fishery, we have been absolutely baffled by their disappearance since then. While those fish were being caught (and released) north of SRI, they were also being caught south of MI. It was an enormous body of small fish. Where are they now, four years later? Predators might have taken a small amount but what about the rest? The fish were too small for the market so I can't believe the netters caught them all. This year, some showed up in the stomach contents of some blues and stripers but the number of small fish from a few years ago was staggering. Does anyone remember the body of fish to which I'm referring? I don't want to get started on the outstanding weakfishing back in the 80's. I thought the body of fish from about 4 years ago really had a chance to replenish the stocks of those fish. How could so many fish just disappear? We need them to make a comeback to give us all some variety and a change of pace. Any comments?

[WhaleFart]

I hear you man and I got into that same body of fish on the surf off of pt pleasant, it was a ton of fun and also gave some promise that these fun to catch fish were on the rebound. I noticed that along with weakfish, croakers have been pretty non existent. I use to be able to go up to the beach with a dozen clams and battle monster double header croakers till I was satisfied. I am with you though having a nice spread of species to target keeps things interesting.

[Dino]

no one really knows.. they are definitely a boom and bust fish but they really havent been cycling back very strongly. all I know is that more than any other inshore species we have in the mid-atlantic, the weakfish really depend on healthy back bays filled with lots of healthy eelgrass beds..and that has been a challenge. its possible the new norm for weakfish based on the amount of healthy back bay habitat is just never going to be as many fish as the east coast used to support.. but then again maybe its just a cycle and one year they will show up in big numbers..

[Capt. Debbie]

It's been more than a few years in north NJ.

NJ Fisherman had weakfish as a fish of the month in its annual boat contest, A fews years not one could make the 6 pound minimum. It's off their list the last two summers. I think the past two years south NJ, Barnie and such were getting smaller ones.

Maybe they grow and come back. We are in a weird cycle. Getting fish that were rare in north NJ (e.g. trigger fish, drums, etc) and losing fish that were common like whiting , weakfish, etc.

Not sure how long this cycle lasts. 5 years, decade, 50 years?




Just a few years ago my friend and I were able to entertain ourselves .... How could so many fish just disappear? We need them to make a comeback to give us all some variety and a change of pace. Any comments?

[pgoins]

I would love to know the answer to this one. I used to have a lot of fun targeting the large tiderunners in the rivers up here. I had my spots and almost always caught. Over the last several years something has changed. They are no longer around like the used to be in the rivers and the bay fishery is nonexistent.

[Billfish715]

My confusion is about the obvious successful spawn of young weakfish several years ago. The number of small,spike weakfish was extraordinary during that year. I'm not too sure we can blame any environmental abnormalities (even Sandy) on the disappearance of that extremely large body of fish. They should have been the basis for a major resurgence of that species. Are they being caught anywhere......Delaware Bay, Peconic Bay, Barnegate Bay, Maryland, Virginia? If you were not around during the weakfish runs of the '80's you don't know what you are missing. I had my hopes up for a resurgence but now I don't know.

[Capt. Lou]

BB still produces weakfish , nothing like years back ! A good friend charters in the bay & when I fished with him we had decent days with fish up to 4#'s ! No Tiderunners but on FW tackle u can have a fun day .
Spots, fluke, tailers & blowfish can be had as well . :cool:

[hammer4reel]

here is a decent article on them

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2010/digmar6-10.pdf

what I dont see in the article is for years there were alot of claims that shrimpers in NC targeting shrimp in the back waters put a bad hurting killing hundreds of thousand of spikes

[Billfish715]

Thanks for linking us to the article. I'm glad that I'm not the only one asking questions. The article seemed to ask more questions than to give answers. Loss of forage is something I'll agree to. Water temps? I'm not sure about that one. Predation? There would have to be untold numbers of them to deplete the spikes so much. If I were to lean toward a major factor, it would be the absence of the lowly sand eels. When they are prolific, the fish which prey on them are abundant. Inshore tuna, bluefish, stripers, cod, even the legendary frost fish and other predators are attracted to them. In their absence, we have to look far and wide to make a catch. I can't explain the decline in winter flounder catches or the missing schools of peanut bunkers that would hug the beach in the fall. Cycles? Probably, but the highs and lows of those cycles is very wide.

[scanman5]

I wonder were they went as well, it was at least 3 years when there were clouds of spike weakfish around at about the same time false albacore were feeding on rainfish. Haven't seen those same schools of weakfish for 3 years.

[Billfish715]

http://kensdock.com/2014/04/22/the-amazing-weakfish-come-back-on-the-water-magazine-may-issue/

I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Did the weakfish never make it north of Cape May? There was another article that blamed unrestricted netting both off NJ and North Carolina. There seems to be a loophole which eliminates weakfish regulations for netters to a certain degree. More things are becoming clear the more I read.

[sternline]

There's really no great mystery. The main nursery for Atlantic weakfish is the Chesapeake. Those juvenile weakfish in the Chesapeake MUST have juvenile bunker to feed on. But Omega Protein is devastating the population of these juvenile bunker in the Chesapeake. So now picture young weakfish going up against the stripers (a.k.a. rockfish) in that bay. The resident stripers in the Chesapeake, that is the males, are themselves starving and diseased because of the scarcity of bunkers. Those young weakfish end up in the stomachs of the hungry stripers. Read THE MOST IMPORTANT FISH IN THE SEA: MENHADEN AND AMERICA if you want to understand how the ecosystem works and why we have to stop Omega Protein before that small company, which has a monopoly on the reduction fishing for bunker, wrecks that ecosystem.

[jmurr711]

check the striped catfish's stomachs.
october 12th we had triple header weakies of south of manasquan with the fish monger majority were 10-14inches but we all kept a 15+ for the table as whole broiled trout is amazing. we must of caught 200 between 9 of us in 3 hours beofre the ocean calmed enough to go offshore for blues & lings

[Reel Class]

EVERYTHING eats baby weakfish. Fluke, seabass, bluefish, and of course striped bass.

This fall, one of the few good jigging days we had off Lavalette and Ortley, out of the 8 bass we kept 7 of them were either spitting up juvenile weakfish (some still kicking!) OR had a few in their stomachs.

That "large" school of jiggable weakfish was around last October (10/2013) - we got into them off Bradley Beach/Avon/Allenhurst and were able to jig a few dozen. This past fall, I don't recall catching any but we did see them on the machine. Of course 2012 was the year of Sandy, and in early October, there were miles of them up and down the beach, and they were also there in 11' and 10' as well as 08 and 09.

The sheer NUMBER of them the last 2 falls, following Sandy has certainly decreased - my guess is predators have wiped out a lot of the ones that were <10" and maybe in pure volume, their #'s have decreased.

Just have to wait to see what this year brings...

I did hear there were good amounts of them taken in Barnegat Bay this summer, where they were caught on traditional methods of shrimping, sandworms, and fin-s fish/rat'l'trap type plugs...

[Billfish715]

Allen, thanks for your updates. You are out there enough to be a reliable source of accurate information. You should really feel the decline of weakies especially the consistent fishery that used to be so popular around the old hospital, Treasure Island, the bridges and upper bay. If anyone caught them there this past year, they were understandably tight lipped about it.

[blindalfred]

There's really no great mystery. The main nursery for Atlantic weakfish is the Chesapeake. Those juvenile weakfish in the Chesapeake MUST have juvenile bunker to feed on. But Omega Protein is devastating the population of these juvenile bunker in the Chesapeake. So now picture young weakfish going up against the stripers (a.k.a. rockfish) in that bay. The resident stripers in the Chesapeake, that is the males, are themselves starving and diseased because of the scarcity of bunkers. Those young weakfish end up in the stomachs of the hungry stripers. Read THE MOST IMPORTANT FISH IN THE SEA: MENHADEN AND AMERICA if you want to understand how the ecosystem works and why we have to stop Omega Protein before that small company, which has a monopoly on the reduction fishing for bunker, wrecks that ecosystem.

An excellent book about bunker by a fellow fisherman and historian. I had the pleasure of fishing with H. Bruce Franklin on the old Sea Pigeon out of Perth Amboy some years back. His knowledge of the fishery and his passion for fishing were obvious. His conclusions are as pertinent now as they were in 2007.

[Capt. Lou]

There has always been loopholes in R weak fishing but during the 50's, 60' 70's & early 80's it was good to excellent ,most years! The fishing early season up in Peconic Bay was super & Delaware Bay had some of the biggest weakfish I've ever caught !
Very rare to not get several 10# plus fish any day u fished down their in spring.
Even nSandy Hook had great runs for many seasons!
Fishing at. Other on the old LB Pier u could fill a burlap sack with weakness of all sizes on the tide.
During late eighties the commercials in various east coast locations netted huge amounts , couple this to the bunker boats decimating the population along R coast of bunkers , lake of habitat = fishery collapse .
When the bunker fleet was located in Belford Creek & a wide range of netters operated out of this port as well . I believe this all contributed to their decimation & eliminated them from R fishery today .
Unfortunate for today's anglers to not have the opportunity to fish for a splendid gamefish like I did .
PS don't forget doggies as well their now in all R bays , never saw them except offshore years back in fall months not today they R all over & eat everything .

[Billfish715]

Thanks for the memories, Lou. I feel for the younger contributors and readers on this forum who may never get to appreciate those days in Raritan Bay, Sandy Hook Bay, Peconic and Delaware Bays not to mention the great ocean jigging during the fall. The Manasquan River and upper Barnegate Bay were great spots for light tackle action. A generation ago, our parents were still living with the effects of the Depression. Food was a commodity that was not taken for granted. Little was wasted. For those who grew up with little, a chance to catch and keep a bag of fish was not turned down. Conservation was seldom practiced. It was a mindset that was hard to break given the trauma of growing up with little and having to live off the land or water. It's hard to explain to anyone today about how things were back then and I don't expect anyone to understand but I'll put it out there. We are paying for those mistakes now. Overfishing was not even considered back then because in the minds of those Depression Era survivors, it was subsistence fishing. The commercial fishermen were no better. When prices came down, it meant they had to catch more. Houses were built; marshes drained; sewage dumped; oysters overharvested; industrial waste flushed; fishing tackle and techniques improved and forage and brood stocks decimated. So, stories about the good old days will just be that......stories to be told about a time that used to be. We all are suffering from the sins of our fathers. Let's hope our sons and daughters don't have to say the same thing about us.

[Reel Class]

Allen, thanks for your updates. You are out there enough to be a reliable source of accurate information. You should really feel the decline of weakies especially the consistent fishery that used to be so popular around the old hospital, Treasure Island, the bridges and upper bay. If anyone caught them there this past year, they were understandably tight lipped about it.

I didn't hear of a single weakfish caught in our river this year. But that's just me. With a 1 fish limit, not many guys target them.

However, the Manasquan river has always been a real "boom or bust" weakfish fishery -- some years it was insane, and then they'd disappear for 3 years for no reason. Same thing with kingfish and spots (???)

The upper Barnegat bay/Metedeconk weakfish fishery we had about 10 years ago, to my knowledge, was/is basically non-existent...

As I said in my original post, there certainly were weakfish taken down near BI, but we didn't see the #'s in the ocean this year like we did the last few years. But this fall, with the bass spitting them up so frequently, I'd imagine we just weren't looking in the right spots for them.

We'll see what happens this year.

[Reel Class]

Sternline great post connecting the bunker to the weakfish and EVERYTHING. This is why we have to focus our efforts on protecting the bunker -- not putting draconian regs on our recreational species that are ruining all of our fisheries!!!!

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

An excellent book about bunker by a fellow fisherman and historian. I had the pleasure of fishing with H. Bruce Franklin on the old Sea Pigeon out of Perth Amboy some years back. His knowledge of the fishery and his passion for fishing were obvious. His conclusions are as pertinent now as they were in 2007.

Bruce has sailed with us numerous times in 2014. A true gentleman, his knowledge is second to none and his willingness to share is priceless.

[Capt. Jerry P]

It is clearly evident that we don't have the weak fish we had during other years esp in the past and of course there is reason for concern. But where do the 15 miles of 10-16 in weak fish that we now regularly see all fall ocean side come from if there are no bigger fish. Do they just fall out of the sky? Weakfish amonsgt other fish has been known as a cycle fish. No doubt there stock is prob lower than the past but with the way the government counts fish who really know. Do they just not come to where they used to? Does a cycle last longer than we can understand. Do they not come in the spring /early summer bc the amount of stripers or blues... bc of bait... bc of changes in the bay.

Where did all the blowfish come from the past two years?They were somewhere else or in a natural rebuilding cyule but everyone said it bc people caught em all. Stocks don't just rebound in a year. u look back to the past historicaly we also went many years without bluefish for what ever reason.

Point being it's a lot easier for people to say a stock is in decline or no good ( which may very well b with weakfish) if something changes. If u don't catch something where it was good in the past there is none left and this is just not true with alot of species.

Two perfect example of how people make false assumptions are ling n flounder.

Ling used to b a winter time fishery which u could enjoy during the coldest months... so nowadays don't catch nearly as many during the winter... like they vanished... so it would b easy to say there are no more ling bc BUT WAIT... now u go out from may to October and it all the ling u want in the deep. So the fishery has changed... no shortage of ling. If we didn't see this or catch them it would b easy to say it overfished or blame commercial guys for a declining stock that is still very healthy.

Winter flounder is another perfect example... they used to b as far south as cape may ( now south of barney they don't see many) and very plentiful in our northern bays n estuaries. So an older gentleman sits on a bucket in south jersey where he caught them for years and now says there is none left bc he doesn't see them where they once where. A research boat tows in the rivers n comes up with the same low #s stock must b no good right?

Well where does the 20 mile line of winter flounder ( yes the same blackbacks) on the edge of the mud hole for 3/4 of the year come from? Many will tell they see more there now then they ever did. Of course we can't enjoy it or take more than two bc the stock is no good and on the decline... Are these fish counted toward the biomass of the stock?

Sorry for the rant just trying to show there is clearly ALOT more to the stocks n population of species. And how it's alot easier to assume than see that small changes make a big difference in effecting a fishery. I'm by all means not saying certain stocks aren't bad or havent been overfished just trying to show people there is more to look at.

[Capt Sal]

A little over a decade ago Raritan Bay produced the world record weakfish. Caught from shore by a customer of Capt and guide Rich Swistack. The next day on our charter in Princess Bay we had three weakies over 16lbs. all on live bunker. We had tremendous runs in late summer of 14-23" weakfish all over the bay. They came all the up the Arthur Kill river to Sewaren. Peanut bunker was what they wanted although sand worms were deadly also. Great charter fish because they were plentiful and rather easy to catch. Took a lot of pressure off the fluke also. In my opinion as I saw the bunker population decline so did the weakfish.There was no back bay run in Raritan bay in quite a few years and hardly any in front of the Verrazano Bridge.
When we had school after school of peanut bunker spread out all over the bay the fishing was superb for both weakfish and fluke. With the cut back of the commercial harvest of bunker now implemented maybe we will see the weakfish make a comeback. PS. My grandfather told me they were a cycle fish as far back as the twenties and thirties.

[tautog]

A great partyboat fishery in Raritan Bay too. I had many trips of having my 14 fish limit and being in C and R mode on a half day trip. Decent lil fighters too if you used 12-15lb casting gear, especially if you got a hold of a tiderunner among all the 17"-22" fish.

[Capt. Debbie]

That's a connection but not a guaranty. In the Raritan Bay in 2012 there were bunker schools EVERYwhere and still no weakfish of size or numbers in Raritan Bay or any connecting river.

Everything has a connection. But how direct was it is is another issue.

Sandy re-aranged alot of inshore bottom and got blamed for everything 2013 and even some stuff in 2014. But how direct is that to a cold Spring? Or a wet rainy Spring to summer fishing? It isnt all that simple or this would be easy to predict.

We had a noticeable absence, if not historic absence of sea robbins up north in 2014. I'm sure that fits in some food chain too. Speculate? Or Guess? I don't know. And I would not invest in prediction made based on it either.

Bottom line- fisheries are not all that predictable and simple to predict year to year.



Sternline great post connecting the bunker to the weakfish and EVERYTHING. This is why we have to focus our efforts on protecting the bunker -- not putting draconian regs on our recreational species that are ruining all of our fisheries!!!!

[Grateful Dad]

I don't think these guys make much of a dent in the population...