Open boat no shows.....

[TAGGED FISH]

Since this website has a lot of people who fish Open Boat. What should be done when someone doesn't have the common decency to make a simple phone call an say they cant make the trip ????

[shrimpman steve]

Charge them for the spot. If they don't pay, ban them until paid.

No excuse for not making a phone call unless there was a medical emergency.

Can u take deposits?

[cool hand fluke]

I agree with Steve. They owe you for the spot. If they don't pay, they'd be on my banned list.

Al

[CAPT PETE]

Take credit card info before the trip. If not set up for that have them mail you a deposit. You can also do a deposit through PayPal.

[DonJose]

Protect yourself & your business. Take deposits via paypal. It's the easiest way to do it.

[MohawkJD]

You can set up to take CC # over the phone. Charge the CC for no shows but ask for cash at the dock if you don't want CC surcharge. Personally, I think CC via phone is better & safer than cash at the dock.

[slammer]

You should charge them full fare.
They didn't even give you a chance to back fill there spot by not calling.

[MVP]

Chad it is very simple. Same rules apply when setting up charters or going on someones charter. If guy backs out for whatever reason. They either have to find a replacement if charter master can not find someone or pay for their spot. Their is no grey area here. I set up a few charters and am invited on many. If you break this simple rule you are blackballed and never invited again.

[TAGGED FISH]

I would like to see a no show list on this website

[kmaty]

Unfortunately its the risk captains take without a deposit was it a dirtbag move of course but now ya live and learned and a no show list would go nowhere itd be right up with the buthurt and whambulence list with 3/4 of the people in this world however if there member on here and don't give a deposit have then post in your open boat thread like (kmaty in) when one guy don't show up and no kmaty on the boat then you publicly blast kmaty

[ytuna]

If you don't show you pay. If you don't know the person get the full fare on a cc when they book.

Its a good idea to post your no show policy on your web site and facebook page.

[Mike S.]

What ever happened to a man's word? I certainly take pride in mine.

Collective no show list may be the way to go.

[rumster]

Ban the guy until he pays. We all understand that emergencies do occur, but when someone doesn't even have the common courtesy to make a phone call to provide an explanation or offer to cover some part of the fair. That is a dick... If his position is that he`s not paying blast him on the site and obviously cut your ties with ***hole.

[tautog]

Charge them unless they have a hell of an excuse, like serious car accident on the way down in the morning, and can provide proof.

[Rottilover]

I was scheduled to be on a open boat Mud Hole trip with Capt. Chad last July 4 th. My dog got real sick the night before and I called Chad to tell him I couldn't make the trip. He understood . The next day I sent a check for the full fair which he never cashed. These guys work hard 8 months a year you'll be surprised how far a little integrity and honesty will take you.

[PAMonger]

Capt., how do you feel about a cancelled charter? I had to cancel a full charter with a sponsor boat 3 weeks in advance because I had a serious ankle injury and my crew was too loyal (in my mind, stupid) and didn't want to go without me. Would you be upset with that or is that enough notice?

[Harpoon]

Jason again?

[tropics]

What ever happened to a man's word? I certainly take pride in mine.

Collective no show list may be the way to go.

Honestly Chap Chad I backed out on a open boat trip and made sure I was at the boat to pay, tip included I thank You again for generosity and not taking my money. I worked deck out of Keypork and got stiffed on a charter. take PayPal and let them learn.

[chuckieb]

agree with the foregoing. when you say you're coming that's a contract. when you break a contract you have to pay damages.

[Take a kid fishing]

Im kinda new at this open boat thing but open boat means walk ons accepted. Have only walked on a few times but always called and always showed with the fares I reserved. The problem I see is if you stand a skipper up and no-show there are plenty other boats to choose from with the open boat option. Post the names of the no shows on this site. It may not stop them from standing you up but it does get there name out there.

[njfisherman1975]

Is he a member of this site? If a guy bails...he should pay you. If the guy doesn't even offer...never take a call again from the guy. No show and no call is ridiculous. No honor...

[Fish Stix]

This is an excellent post Chad. Taking deposits on OB is tough. It's already a pain in the nuts to put the trips together, let alone figure who paid and didn't blah blah blah. If you say your coming, THEN COME OR MAKE GOOD. It's simple. We aren't all in this business as a "tax write off". Some of us actually do this for a living and it's hard enough.

I've been stiffed luckily only a couple of times. It hurts. Especially when you know the spot could have been filled. Charter, open boats whatever. If it's a legitimate excuse, then so be it. But all the other BS has got to go.

Maybe this post will accomplish something....

Probably not .. But it's worth a shot!

[shrimpman steve]

If one has no honor there is nothing you can do (Unless you took a deposit).

[The Sinker Man]

Post the names. If he did it to you he might be doing it all the time to other OB. At least the other charter Capts. will know not to book him.

[joe987654321]

Many OB postings on this website do not provide sufficient detail to inform the customer what is expected of them when they make a reservation. I'd recommend adding "fine print" to each posting for an OB.



How about appending some boilerplate fine print to all OB postings such as:

**Kindly give 24 hours notice for all cancellations. If a cancellation is made less than 24 hours from scheduled departure time, every effort will be made to fill the spot. However, full payment is expected if the spot does not get filled.

[bulletbob]

Look, I have woke up dead sick as a dog and didn't even think about the fishing trip I was supposed to be at.. These things do happen.. Sure, Chad could black ball the perp, post his name and embarrass him, but what if the guy is a semi regular patron, and has friends that are patrons??.. Is it worth losing business over one no show??.. There is a LOT of jumping to conclusion here, without us knowing the specifics.. I am NOT a charter captain, so i am not an expert, but if I were capt Chad, I would talk to the guy that bailed, let him know in a civil manner that this sort of thing kills his business, is not appreciated,and that in the future he needs to know beforehand if someone can't make it so he can fill the spot.

The guy might have a legit reason he didn't show.. Emergencies happen to each one of us..
Let the guy know he did the captain wrong,but also let him know you would appreciate his business in the future.. If it happens again, then by all means he's not trustworthy... Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, forgive his indiscretion if he has a reasonable excuse, but also implement a policy of taking credit card sales with refunds ONLY at the captains discretion.. No good captain would expect a guy to show up to fish if he had a kid that had to be rushed to the hospital at 3 am. However. a captain also should have the right to charge a guy for a spot that he kept for him, and the guy didn't show cause he was drunk out of his mind and couldn't get to the boat... Circumstances dictate captains decision.
I say take card reservations, charge no shows when appropriate, and refund the charges when the situation calls for it.. Good will, and dealing squarely with customers is a given for charter captains..
A guy that gets a refund check from a charter captain when he has an emergency and simply cannot make the boat, WILL be on that boat again, and WILL bring others... Revenge is not a good way to sustain a business, compassion tempered with common sense is... bob

[reefsquater]

You might consider taking a pay pal deposit for new customers, first time out. After that, if you get stiffed, put him/her on the "sorry full" list.

[bulletbob]

Why is it always an essay?

I have nothing better to do. However,you certainly didn't have to read it if the length of my response was a problem.

[Taxman]

What good is posting names or a no show list when most people use screen names?

[stevelikes2fish]

Screen names, real names & number from caller id, post them. Common sense and courtsey go a long way. If they haven't got it, show them the same. Others will recognize the person in question, embarrass the hell out of them!

[Captain Rich]

I currently have a situation where 2 gentlemen had a 3rd person call me at 2:45 for a 5 AM departure and said they had an "auto accident" for a mid-range trip. I ran the trip with the two anglers who did show up. That night the credit card declined the charge, was either maxed out or fraudulent. Haven't heard from them since, despite several calls from me,just filed in Civil Court against them.

[BCinerie]

I think you are damned if you do or damned if you don't. You do not want to piss off a potential customer but you have to pay your bills. I think there has to be a reservation system out there that would be perfect for charter boats. Make a reservation, pre authorize the card charge after the trip or take cash etc. It is a necessary evil and a PIA. Or real simple get full payment via paypal before trip and if they no show or no call you have the money!! The black list is tough, and might have some legal BS involved etc. Why can't people just man up and have some self repect!!! If you say you are going to go , GO!!!!

I do wish more open boats would take Credit cards!!!

[Captain Rich]

I think you are damned if you do or damned if you don't. You do not want to piss off a potential customer but you have to pay your bills. I think there has to be a reservation system out there that would be perfect for charter boats. Make a reservation, pre authorize the card charge after the trip or take cash etc. It is a necessary evil and a PIA. Or real simple get full payment via paypal before trip and if they no show or no call you have the money!! The black list is tough, and might have some legal BS involved etc. Why can't people just man up and have some self repect!!! If you say you are going to go , GO!!!!

I do wish more open boats would take Credit cards!!!

I will take a card in a pinch, but we lose the card % and our charter rates are already some of the lowest in the country. Per trip it doesn't sound like much, but over the course of the season those percentages add up. My full day rate here is $650, in Fl it's $1000, with a lot less mileage involved down there. We are fishing on great fishing grounds within a mile or two of the inlet, up here we do 15 to 20 mile runs and accept it as normal. Fuel and time = money. :(

[Grateful Dad]

I know a charter captain in NC who has a "Wall of Shame" on his website. He lists the real names and addresses (Just cities, not street addresses)of the guys that stiffed him. He takes the names down when people pay up.

I fell victim to a charter no-show for a tuna overnighter. I wound up paying for the guy's spot, that one stung. He's not been invited on any of my charters since, nor would he be welcome.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Figured I'd weigh in here.....

Chad should be angry that he is out the money when he reserved a spot for this person in good faith. Posting it on the Internet here or any place else is a personal choice. There have been pleanty of times I've been screwed out of money here and although I've been tempted and it would be easy for me to black ball list these businesses here, I choose not to.

The way I figure it is they are eventually going to reap what thew sew. Futher, I'm not going to waste my positive energy on something negative and what happens between you and someone is between the two of you... But that's just me....

I try and give eveyone the benefit of the doubt and slack when they need it to a point but "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me".

[Captain Steve]

I won't hold the boat without deposit

[stevelikes2fish]

I try and give eveyone the benefit of the doubt and slack when they need it to a point but "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me".

Kind of reminds me of a recent charter I just organized and ran. Had 1 No Call, No Show. Wound up paying the individuals fare myself, just to keep the other fares at the price I quoted them. Not sure how I would handle it if I had to rely on it if I was a business owner. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Joey Dah Fish]

Let's face the facts shall we. As a business owner you take the risks and the rewards. That goes hand in hand in owning your own business. I have been screwed a few times but that does not change my attitude towards others. The minute you change because of people like this they have won by default. My advice continue to do a great job and the chips fall where they will. To put out a list of black balls makes you the same or even worse than them

[chefsamg19]

Just a person being called out and his name being thrown out there is enough damage to anyone's ego.. I agree... The deposite thing deters some people IMO it's ashame it can't b go on ur own good word cause people do stiff people...

[Urban Angler]

I would like to see a no show list on this website

OHH! Now that's what I'm talking about!!! YES!!! One vote Here

[seazu]

Look, I have woke up dead sick as a dog and didn't even think about the fishing trip I was supposed to be at.. These things do happen.. Sure, Chad could black ball the perp, post his name and embarrass him, but what if the guy is a semi regular patron, and has friends that are patrons??.. Is it worth losing business over one no show??.. There is a LOT of jumping to conclusion here, without us knowing the specifics.. I am NOT a charter captain, so i am not an expert, but if I were capt Chad, I would talk to the guy that bailed, let him know in a civil manner that this sort of thing kills his business, is not appreciated,and that in the future he needs to know beforehand if someone can't make it so he can fill the spot.

The guy might have a legit reason he didn't show.. Emergencies happen to each one of us..
Let the guy know he did the captain wrong,but also let him know you would appreciate his business in the future.. If it happens again, then by all means he's not trustworthy... Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, forgive his indiscretion if he has a reasonable excuse, but also implement a policy of taking credit card sales with refunds ONLY at the captains discretion.. No good captain would expect a guy to show up to fish if he had a kid that had to be rushed to the hospital at 3 am. However. a captain also should have the right to charge a guy for a spot that he kept for him, and the guy didn't show cause he was drunk out of his mind and couldn't get to the boat... Circumstances dictate captains decision.
I say take card reservations, charge no shows when appropriate, and refund the charges when the situation calls for it.. Good will, and dealing squarely with customers is a given for charter captains..
A guy that gets a refund check from a charter captain when he has an emergency and simply cannot make the boat, WILL be on that boat again, and WILL bring others... Revenge is not a good way to sustain a business, compassion tempered with common sense is... bob

wow you are realy kind, i had someone bounce a check gave them 4 very nice understanding phone calls and still did not make good on it, so i hung it up and wrote dead beat under it so all my customers could see. all her friends pointed and laughed and told her, even though she never made good, i only had 5 people bounce checks in 13 years, and they made good on them right away. so i say throw him under the bus he deserves it.

[skate king]

Since this website has a lot of people who fish Open Boat. What should be done when someone doesn't have the common decency to make a simple phone call an say they cant make the trip ????

Been there and know what it does to the person that made the initial contact. Hard call to make unless you or the Captain knows and trusts who responds to the post

[Captain Rich]

Look, I have woke up dead sick as a dog and didn't even think about the fishing trip I was supposed to be at.. These things do happen.. Sure, Chad could black ball the perp, post his name and embarrass him, but what if the guy is a semi regular patron, and has friends that are patrons??.. Is it worth losing business over one no show??WHY SHOULD THE CAPTAIN LOSE ANY MONEY ?.. There is a LOT of jumping to conclusion here, without us knowing the specifics.. I am NOT a charter captain, so i am not an expert, but if I were capt Chad, I would talk to the guy that bailed, let him know in a civil manner that this sort of thing kills his business, is not appreciated,and that in the future he needs to know beforehand if someone can't make it so he can fill the spot.

The guy might have a legit reason he didn't show.. Emergencies happen to each one of us..
Let the guy know he did the captain wrong,but also let him know you would appreciate his business in the future.. If it happens again, then by all means he's not trustworthy.WHY WOULD WE GIVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE IF HE DIDN'T MAKE GOOD ON THE FIRST TRIP??.. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, forgive his indiscretion if he has a reasonable excuse, but also implement a policy of taking credit card sales with refunds ONLY at the captains discretion.. No good captain would expect a guy to show up to fish if he had a kid that had to be rushed to the hospital at 3 am. However. a captain also should have the right to charge a guy for a spot that he kept for him, and the guy didn't show cause he was drunk out of his mind and couldn't get to the boat WHAT ANGLER WOULD TELL YOU HE DIDN'T MAKE IT BECAUSE HE WAS DRUNK ??... Circumstances dictate captains decision.
I say take card reservations, charge no shows when appropriate, and refund the charges when the situation calls for it.. Good will, and dealing squarely with customers is a given for charter captains..
A guy that gets a refund check from a charter captain when he has an emergency and simply cannot make the boat, WILL be on that boat again, and WILL bring others... Revenge is not a good way to sustain a business, compassion tempered with common sense is... bob

How did this all fall on the charter captain's shoulders ? How about the angler taking responsibility for reserving the spot and paying no matter what the excuse. Then he has earned a second chance. Bullet- you don't have a clue about how tough the charter business is.

[dakota560]

Since this website has a lot of people who fish Open Boat. What should be done when someone doesn't have the common decency to make a simple phone call an say they cant make the trip ????

Chad,

In the world we live in today it's unfortunate but people do this stuff every day! Some bad people in the world and as Gerry said they will get their due at some point in life. The story Capt Adler told about the two guys who actually went fishing with him and provided a bad cc would put me over the edge. I don't think there's anything wrong with telling customers all fares have to be paid in full up front. If they cancel for a good reason, as decided on ONLY by you, you can either refund their payment or apply it to a future trip. I know charters who do this with a no return policy. If the Captain cancels due to weather, the customer can reschedule at any future time at the same price as the initial trip which was cancelled. Personally I would include a time period with that, maybe two years or something along those lines or the advance payment is forfeited. If the customer cancels, again no refund and the customer has the right to reschedule within a period of time, again maybe two years, but the price charged since the customer cancelled would be the full price at the date rescheduled. In this way you provide flexibility to customers who experience unforeseen difficulties, but never sail with someone who hasn't paid or never book a charter or spot on an open charter unless someone has paid in advance and problem solved. This will certainly weed out anyone who takes advantage of your current policy and will prevent bad cc's or bounced checks.

Something to think about and for those who really want to fish with you it this should be an acceptable policy.

Dakota

[Captain Rich]

Dakota- Good points, let me clear up one area, in my case the 2 anglers didn't show and never called to square their bill. The credit card given to me at booking, declined the charge.

[bulletbob]

How did this all fall on the charter captain's shoulders ? How about the angler taking responsibility for reserving the spot and paying no matter what the excuse. Then he has earned a second chance. Bullet- you don't have a clue about how tough the charter business is.


you didn't read my post.. I stated that things do happen, and perhaps the guy really could not make it.. just a benefit of the doubt thing..
You are a charter captain.. If someone got deathly sick at 5 am, or one of his kids had to be taken to the hospital, or his wife, and the guy really could NOT fish that day, would you charge him for the no show??..
If you had his deposit and his no show was 100% valid, would you keep it??.. You might, but the guy might look at another boat next time as well..

If the guy really stiffed Chad, he's a prick.. However that does need to be determined.. Things HAPPEN , is the point I was trying to make.. I really don't know the charter boat business you are 100% correct.. However, I DO know that jumping to conclusions and blacklisting people is not a great way to build a business..
Should Chad refuse to let him on the boat if he has cash in hand next time?? Thats the captains call of course, but again, business is business..

No one knows what happened, or its just not been revealed in this thread..
I just feel that "blacklisting" customers is not a great way to do business, even when a guy does you wrong... Repeat problems are another thing of course.. Then you KNOW the person can't be trusted.. Not enough info in this particular case... bob

[reefsquater]

Sorry Rich that you got stiffed. I would think you would be hard pressed to get the money unless they signed something. Policy's on websites (by the way, I built your first one) have been disputed and from my understanding have only held up when the transaction was online. Phone conversations and payment via that method are easy for a dirtbag to dispute.

Rediculous that anyone would enter into an agreement and then bail, especially with how hard the charter industry is.

Let us know if your successful in your attempts to get the money clearly owed you, and good luck in sunny FLA.

[bunker dunker]

Chad,
I know ya to long and been through way worse than this with ya.you have a good biz and name for yourself.go fishing

[Capt. JJ]

Ive worked on a busy charter boat for years....chartered many a boat...joined in on open boats....if we truly enjoy fishing, its what we do!

Been on both sides of the equation, from every angle possible, and it sucks.

Period.

But talking about starting a list on this, or any other, site....even if its just "no shows"?????!!!! That could create a very serious (even if silly) legal issue and NJ Fishing would have to pay a lawyer a lot of money to stave off Defamation lawsuits, no matter how irresponsible they might be.

It sucks.....it happens...there are legitimate reasons, and not-so-legitimate reasons, and its not worth the extra effort to try and figure out which is which. Just move forward and fish, and hope that Karma will kick in at some point and pay you off for doing so.

Gerry....aint it time to close this down while its still benign?

JJ

[Capt. Debbie]

That happens to me in boating classes. Especially early season where the rental cost must be barely covered. And no shows happen and the event ends up costing you money.

Get a PayPal account. Easy to do w/ 3% service charge. Charge a nominal deposit. Even $10 or $50 deposit. Even if it's only a small percent of your fee. They will respect that and not want to lose their pittance.

Another measure is have them call you to confirm. If you do not hear from them assume NO GO. It's easier with these inconsider SOBs to do nothing. By requiring them call (or text ) you to confirm they have to do something extra. They people that will call will show. The no call is the on the fence no show types.

Hope that helps?



Since this website has a lot of people who fish Open Boat. What should be done when someone doesn't have the common decency to make a simple phone call an say they cant make the trip ????

[w_b]

wow great post.

yes emergencies happen, but cell phones still work thru most emergencies. If you can't make it, and can't call, you are a dick.

at least call, don't be a dick. These guys are counting on you.

How would you like it when you got to the boat and the Capt, bailed on you? or had a full boat without you seeya!

[Offshoreafflicted]

Is there any reason captains do not require payment in full to reserve a spot? Credit cards can be taken over the phone or on line. It's standard practice and people are accustomed to paying in advance for reservations in every other industry. Why should the charter business be any different?

[Joey Dah Fish]

Is there any reason captains do not require payment in full to reserve a spot? Credit cards can be taken over the phone or on line. It's standard practice and people are accustomed to paying in advance for reservations in every other industry. Why should the charter business be any different?

That's a pretty simple answer. There are just as many ******* Capts as there are fares. I pay for my spot whether I go or not. I feel for the Capts trying to make a living as well as the mates they depend on fares showing up too. We are very fortunate to have some of the best Capts and Mates in the entire country here in NJ. These guys show up everyday rain, shine and snow. My hat is off to them. Please support these folks by doing the honorable thing. Show up, or pay up including the tip for the mates. PS I haven't seen any industry that you pay in full in advance for products or services not rendered. I you do I think you got a daddy named Forrest too.

[Ryelof]

I will give one from the other side, I fish a lot of open boats, because I too have had no-shows where I paid for them. What do you do when you show up 10 minutes early ( granted I try to show up earlier) and you watch the boat sailing away?
I will tell you what I did, I called the Capt. and said don't try to tell me I was late. He laughed and said he would turn around. I said don't bother. I have never fished with him again.

[Solemate]

I only fish open boat charters now. I always call well ahead at least a week if I need to cancel. I always offer to pay if the captain cannot fill the spot. My thought on a no show is that when it happens the Capt should contact the patron first to be sure there was no miscommunication. If there is no reconciliation on this then the patron should be expected to pay. No pay then no more trips on this boat.

[Capt. Debbie]

Yes confirm & remind everyone 2 days in advance is common practice too.


I only fish open boat charters now. I always call well ahead at least a week if I need to cancel. I always offer to pay if the captain cannot fill the spot. My thought on a no show is that when it happens the Capt should contact the patron first to be sure there was no miscommunication. If there is no reconciliation on this then the patron should be expected to pay. No pay then no more trips on this boat.

[SR60]

Chad

you know my outlook on ignorance/inconsideration... take them to the Hell hole.....

#2

[EEL killer]

Ban them for no show ,unless they r dead no excuses

[njadam]

I usually don't comment on this stuff but it's business and in this day and age it's so easy to make a call or text there are no excuses to leave a captain hanging.

Man up, settle your debts, and move on. If you can't afford to pay up or at least offer some cash to a captain if you "can't" make a trip that you booked you shouldn't have booked in the first place.

Captains - it's unfortunate but you need to start taking deposits for non-regulars (those who have sailed with you less than 5 times). Protect yourselves.