Fishermen's Surveys

[Billfish715]

Was anyone recently surveyed about his saltwater fishing activities? The reason I'm curious is because part of the NMFS's formula for determining the status of fish stocks and quotas and limit sizes comes from survey information from fishermen. I have a problem with the "science" that is being used because it fails to take into account many variables. One of those variables is how few surveys were actually taken. From the minimal amount of information that was collected, the scientists "estimated" (their words) final figures that will affect us all. The only real data they have about fish landings is from the commercial catch which has to be logged in every week.

The NMFS does admit that the fluke fishery has increased sixfold. It does not say when they feel the fishery will be restored to their satisfaction. They say that the migration of fluke has been more northward into our region and that is why we are catching more fluke than the states to our south. But from whom are they getting their information? Have the party boat captains been submitting their logs? Has their been a substantial number of fishermen who have submitted survey information?

Most of the fluke stock is made up of 14 to 17 inch fish which we throw back. Those fish and other larger ones are then harvested by the draggers leaving a few of the larger fish for us to keep. This pressure on the majority of the fluke stock (the 14-17inch fish) will never allow enough of them to reach the 18" size limit for us take home. The fluke population will remain steady at those same 14 - 17 inch fish and we won't be able to keep any of them. If more fluke are thrown overboard (like in the video) because the commercial limits were met, we will lose even more. I don't expect the limits to become more liberal anytime soon. Since when have the size limits decreased? We need a slot limit or we will all be buying our fresh fluke from a fish market.

[frugalfisherman]

I think it's been determined most on the board are just keeping shorts.

[Billfish715]

I agree that some short fluke will be kept but I wouldn't talk it up too much on this board or anywhere. The party boat captains might be hard pressed to monitor their fares to avoid being labeled as pirates. This has always been a sport in which fishermen regulate themselves and I expect it to stay that way. There aren't enough CO's to patrol everywhere and enforce all of the restrictions that are placed on fishermen, so we patrol ourselves.

My issues are with the science of all of these regulations. There seems to be no "sense" in science. Catching 17.5" fluke was difficult enough for most people. How many will go home without fillets now that the siize limit is up to 18"? Is the idea to have fishermen keep fewer fish? It sure sounds that way. Where will the size limits end? How much impact will keeping 17.5 " fish have on the total fluke stocks? Really?

N.Y. has had a size limit of 19" for a few years. What happened to them? They got an increase in their possession limit and a decrease in their size limits because they were under their quota. So, were the NMFS regulations successful? They might say, "Yes"; otherwise why would they give a larger share of the pot to N.Y.? Why did they catch fewer fish? They caught fewer fish because the size limits were unreasonable. That's where we're headed. The NMFS sets the limits and we are expected to click our heels and fall in line.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Only experience I had with a survey was back at the dock.... We were interviewed and they did one smart thing so the interviewers could not fabricate interviews. They called me about a week later to verify that I was actually interviewed.

[Wilson]

Only experience I had with a survey was back at the dock.... We were interviewed and they did one smart thing so the interviewers could not fabricate interviews. They called me about a week later to verify that I was actually interviewed.
They should of surveyed a fisherman who actually caught something:p

[Captain Rich]

Only experience I had with a survey was back at the dock.... We were interviewed and they did one smart thing so the interviewers could not fabricate interviews. They called me about a week later to verify that I was actually interviewed.

The whole system is screwed up, a private company is paid to survey "For Hire Captains" three or four times a season. A local individual is hired to do a dock interview. Then another indiviual is paid to do phone confirmation that the dock interview was accurate. This is all done on the same trip that I fill out a Federal Vessel Trip Report. So now one trip now has had 4 reports generated about it. Wonder why the numbers are off ?? I try not to do the dock interviews and hang up on phone confirmations, why are other people being paid for my work?? Let them pay me for the Federal reports that are done for each trip.

[Billfish715]

Gerry, Were you ever surveyed again? Did the surveyors ever return to the dock to interview anyone else? I just don't think the data that is collected is enough to call any conclusions scientific and yet, it is.

If the Feds. we're really concerned about increasing the fluke stocks, then they would close the commercial season from Nov. thru Jan. so the fluke can spawn. Then, restrict them to fishing outside of 3 miles for the rest of the year. Since the majority of the commercial catch is made far offshore and their quotas are much more liberal during the winter, closing the season for awhile will increase the spawning success and thereby increase the number of available fluke. Let them keep their yearly quotas. The draggers might have to work a bit more but I'm sure they will survive. It seems fair and, maybe, we won't be crossing swords with each other.

[Capt Sal]

I think it's been determined most on the board are just keeping shorts.

Not true.Many people venting but I think it is a bad idea to post about keeping short fluke.It is not good for the site and makes us look bad.I do not like what happened but I will not keep any short fluke on my charters!

[Gerry Zagorski]

They should of surveyed a fisherman who actually caught something:p

Well Wilson... You will be happy to know that on the day I reported catching nothing :) At least I'm consistent :D

[frugalfisherman]

Not true.Many people venting but I think it is a bad idea to post about keeping short fluke.It is not good for the site and makes us look bad.I do not like what happened but I will not keep any short fluke on my charters!

Au contraire. It shows that we have had enough. This is the only way to send a message. A reasonable attitude toward recreational fisherman from noaa or an unreasonable response in return.

[Foul Hook]

I think it's been determined most on the board are just keeping shorts.

Frugal You nailed it! Bait,gas,boat,slip,beer/drinks, repairs, ect.,ect.ect, I think I've paid for the right to keep what I want. As crazy as it sounds I'll keep only 18in. fish but, as far as the bag limit, that will be up to me. This may not sound like the "right" thing to do, but for me it levels the playing field in my small mind. They don't seem to want to listen to the people who are on the water every friggin day so why should I have to listen to them.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry, Were you ever surveyed again? Did the surveyors ever return to the dock to interview anyone else? I just don't think the data that is collected is enough to call any conclusions scientific and yet, it is.

If the Feds. we're really concerned about increasing the fluke stocks, then they would close the commercial season from Nov. thru Jan. so the fluke can spawn. Then, restrict them to fishing outside of 3 miles for the rest of the year. Since the majority of the commercial catch is made far offshore and their quotas are much more liberal during the winter, closing the season for awhile will increase the spawning success and thereby increase the number of available fluke. Let them keep their yearly quotas. The draggers might have to work a bit more but I'm sure they will survive. It seems fair and, maybe, we won't be crossing swords with each other.

Bill - They interviewed several people at the docks that day. A very nice day perfect for fishing so a target rich environment. I think maybe the problem is they only come out on nice days when people are likely to be fishing.... DO they then then assume that every day has as much fishing pressure as the nice days??

BTW - They even tried to interview one of the cranky Commercial Clammers that was just happened to be walking down the dock at the time. Wish I had a Video of that... When he was asked if he was willing to be interviewed he shot the Fish and Game guy a look like he just asked him if he would mind if he dated his 16 year old daughter.... You don't mess wit Clammers :D

[RussA]

Not true.Many people venting but I think it is a bad idea to post about keeping short fluke.It is not good for the site and makes us look bad.I do not like what happened but I will not keep any short fluke on my charters!

Wink Wink

[Wilson]

Well Wilson... You will be happy to know that on the day I reported catching nothing :) At least I'm consistent :D
And how did I know that:D

[Joey Dah Fish]

I think all the surveyors interviewed Gerry every day and came to the decision that there are no fish in the ocean to catch :) ones that can't fish write about it :p oh on a closing note I did see him catch a fish once, only once :).

[mopie 25]

lets not rob a bank with frugal loose lips sink ships

[mopie 25]

Lets not rob a bank with frugal remember LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS