Who was surveyed for their fluke catch?

[Angler Paul]

The MRIP survey currently shows that NJ over fished its fluke quota for 2013.
This is despite the fact that there was far less participation in the fishery this year due to the effects of Hurricane Sandy. I am trying to find flaws in how the survey was conducted with hope that we might be able to have their numbers revised. The survey is supposed to be random. However, I have one friend who was surveyed numerous times at the same dock, around the same time and on the same day of the week. He usually came in from fishing a little before the surveyors showed up. He and his crew are experienced fishermen who frequently caught their limits. Further, rather than surveying other boats that were at the same dock, the surveyors would go right to my friend’s boat as they saw them on the dock filleting fish. Taking surveys like this certainly skewed their data. If this happened to my friend, I am sure it happened to others at various locations as well. If you were surveyed in a manner similar to this or are aware of other flaws in the way the survey was conducted please PM me and/or write a response to this thread.

Thanks,
Paul Haertel – JCAA President Elect

[RussA]

Well that's easy... They were made up.


This game that you guys are playing is getting old.

Everyone is trying to help and well intentioned, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It really is simple to say Thanks for your opinion fisheries people but mind your own ****ing business.


I feel better thanks!
:)

[Gerry Zagorski]

I was surveyed once at the dock but it was Striper season then.

[Fish Stix]

All the numbers are made up. They watch allllll these internet sites and add whatever % needed to crush the quota. I hope I can get a job at a fast food joint, cuz by the time I'm 35 there will be no fishing!

[tuna john]

never surveyed, maybe set up a poll? would be pretty hard to dispute the results

[Sharkyispy]

The MRIP survey currently shows that NJ over fished its fluke quota for 2013.
This is despite the fact that there was far less participation in the fishery this year due to the effects of Hurricane Sandy. I am trying to find flaws in how the survey was conducted with hope that we might be able to have their numbers revised. The survey is supposed to be random. However, I have one friend who was surveyed numerous times at the same dock, around the same time and on the same day of the week. He usually came in from fishing a little before the surveyors showed up. He and his crew are experienced fishermen who frequently caught their limits. Further, rather than surveying other boats that were at the same dock, the surveyors would go right to my friend’s boat as they saw them on the dock filleting fish. Taking surveys like this certainly skewed their data. If this happened to my friend, I am sure it happened to others at various locations as well. If you were surveyed in a manner similar to this or are aware of other flaws in the way the survey was conducted please PM me and/or write a response to this thread.

Thanks,
Paul Haertel – JCAA President Elect



Paul, never saw one survey taker polling anyone this year. I fish frequently and from several different areas but do fish one port more than another and never took one. I had even asked some this summer if anyone had seen surveys taken when I was not there, the answer for all was never. When and where were these surveys taken? Would love to see that information disclosed too to validate the findings.....

[Gerry Zagorski]

Do we think maybe they go to places and events where Fluke are caught like tournaments and get many at once and use that as the "average day"?

This would make sense for them... One place easy pickings and there work is done.

Have any of you that fished the Fluke Tournaments this year seen them??

If so and they use that as a typical catch this could scew the numbers big time.

Could it be they also show up on a Sat or Sun at a target rich environment like a Party Boat and use those numbers and make assumptions based on that?

[dales529]

My personal Opinion and only that. I think we all know that the science is flawed. Who remembers the older "clipboard data" where they would approach one boat or Capt with fish ask what they caught, how many times a week they fish and then multiply that catch by all the boats in the marina per week.:eek: The saltwater registry was actually an attempt to survey actual fishermen and we fought it , we failed, they failed, so the story goes.

The science is flawed, the fight is on. It needs All of us via ALL groups to stay together. All the draconian regulation / speculation at this point for 2014 is just that. Many unanswered issues its early in the game, being worked on and there is not any regulation or options yet.

Paul important data Thanks for your efforts

[tjd24]

Never since the Saltwater registration was imposed.

[Fishin Dude]

Never spoke to anyone on this. I did get surveyed via letter, then phone call, in reference to my catches under my HMS permit, but that's another issue.

Back to Fluke:

When there was an 18" size limit on Fluke, we were able to keep 8 fish. Those who did not fish rough stuff or big bucktails with a nice tempting strip in secret locations, welcomed a 17 1/2' size limit for a reduction in bag limit. Now, the government wants it back up to 18", but f*%# us on the bag limit. It was common knowledge at the time that we WOULD NEVER GET THOSE FISH BACK, well, welcome to reality guys. Speak up now!

[Blackfish Doug]

I was surveyed I told them I got 5 million Lbs. of Fluke & 6 million lbs of of winter Flounder. They worry about fish & not Terrorists? Drug Dealers, corrupt Politicians. All I know is I'm getting in my delorean & I'm going back to 1959 & I'm going to go by those days regulations. There is no regulatory board as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist . I lost all respect for them & don't give damn anymore.

[SaltLife1980]

They pull the numbers from outta the air.. Worked all fluke season and we never go surveyed.. So who knows where they come up with these numbers..

[Reelron]

Haven't seen or talked to one of these survey people in 3 years. The last time I did it was after a Monger trip. There were two of them asking us questions as the fish were being cut. I believe they were there every day for two weeks. When asked why they didn't go to other boats, their response was because this boat does so good! Tell me that won't screw the numbers!

[Reel Class]

Surveyors came to my dock twice this fall while we were either bottom fishing or bass fishing (don't remember).

They were looking for private boat guys, not charter or for hire guys to interview. Never saw them all summer long at Clark's, and I'm there almost everyday. F&G was there more then they were!

The only guys we see regularly at our marina are the guys that do the pelagic data - we know most of them since they are there 4-5 days a week. I made it a point to ask one of the guys this summer where the inshore guys taking fluke/seabass data were - he laughed, and said (in effect) they really don't care about the inshore stuff.

LOL

And we overfished. :eek: :rolleyes: :cool:

[GDubya07]

The numbers are made up for political connections and the cross-over to catch shares , getting every rec. fisherman/ charter/party boat captains off of the water , make it fishing for profit ( Big Money ) and wipe out species much more quickly .

The numbers are totally wrong and inaccurate and they are impossible physically after what I saw last year .

How much more are you going to take ,

BTW I have never been asked what I caught and were except when rutgers did there study and I was taking my Fluke racks to the freezer in atlantic highlands and bagging and lableing my catch

GDubs-

[Solemate]

Paul, I no longer really fish for fluke since the regs went past 16 in. Personal preference to eat smaller fish. I agree with your attempt to get the fisherman involved with finding out this info but my opinion is that you won't get any better info than they would. The fact remains that unless a true data collection system is rolled out that does not include the posibility of political referendums than no one should give a shout what the regs are. Fillet and release. In the box. Have a good day and Merry XMas

[Capt Sal]

We were picked as a for hire boat.Numerous calls and always the sane thing.How many trips and how many tuna did you land?Answer-we do not have a HMS permit and do not charter for tuna.Did not matter and they would call every two weeks.Never were we asked about fluke or stripers!Flawed,you bet.

[Detour66]

Fluke fishing was terrible this year. I went at least 5 times and only took home fish one trip. And it wasn't only me that had a bad day. The whole party boat with maybe 40 people on it caught maybe 30 keepers and the rest throw backs.
And this was out of more than one port. I don't know where they are getting there info from but it's totally bogus and a scam. If anything we where way under our limit. Also what about weekdays when there are hardly any boats out on the water. Saturday and Sunday are the main days to fish for the working guy. Maybe that's the day's they are getting this info from. It just keeps getting worst and worst. If recreational fishing goes belly up it will have a HUGE impact on the shore economy! Pearls before swine!

[CadiShackFishing]

Have never been surveyed but if I ever do I'll tell them I got the skunk. Seems like they just make this stuff up. Next they will make us by a bonus tag for our third fluke. :mad:

[Gerry Zagorski]

The MRIP survey currently shows that NJ over fished its fluke quota for 2013.
This is despite the fact that there was far less participation in the fishery this year due to the effects of Hurricane Sandy. I am trying to find flaws in how the survey was conducted with hope that we might be able to have their numbers revised. The survey is supposed to be random. However, I have one friend who was surveyed numerous times at the same dock, around the same time and on the same day of the week. He usually came in from fishing a little before the surveyors showed up. He and his crew are experienced fishermen who frequently caught their limits. Further, rather than surveying other boats that were at the same dock, the surveyors would go right to my friend’s boat as they saw them on the dock filleting fish. Taking surveys like this certainly skewed their data. If this happened to my friend, I am sure it happened to others at various locations as well. If you were surveyed in a manner similar to this or are aware of other flaws in the way the survey was conducted please PM me and/or write a response to this thread.

Thanks,
Paul Haertel – JCAA President Elect

Paul - If you think it would help you gather some stats, you have the ability to put up a pole.... It's an option down under the box where you type in your post and it can only be done by the person who starts the post. If you need some help with this let me know.

[frugalfisherman]

I didn't report the shorts I kept. Is that good?

[reefsquater]

When I was young...... I will give you a second to laugh at that....... I worked the surveys for Katherine chandler and associates supply the recreational data. I thought I was doing good work but after a few months I realized that the data could not be accurately collected.


I was assigned a spot/boat to gather the data. I was to speak to as many anglers as I could, measure and record any fish I got to see and record reported catches. It usually went like this.

Anyone who didn't catch anything didn't want to talk about fishing at all and walked right by being counted as a fisherman at the spot with no response. The guys who out fished everyone had their chests out and would ramble on and on showing you the fish and telling you all kinds of tales. Some others would tell you what they caught honestly but at least as many lied (both ways some said there were none others said they had many.) Boat captains didn't want you speaking with their customers about catches. All of this going on and I had no choice but to report it.
In speaking with other interview surveyors back then many of them just made the reports up. Some would never even go to the survey spot they would report fake catches using friends names and numbers if they were checked up on.

I got fed up really quick with the survey process.

I was surveyed two years ago after a tuna trip in July where we had a few rats. In speaking with the interveiwer I found the process was pretty much the same.

[Sharkyispy]

Do we think maybe they go to places and events where Fluke are caught like tournaments and get many at once and use that as the "average day"?

This would make sense for them... One place easy pickings and there work is done.

Have any of you that fished the Fluke Tournaments this year seen them??

If so and they use that as a typical catch this could scew the numbers big time.

Could it be they also show up on a Sat or Sun at a target rich environment like a Party Boat and use those numbers and make assumptions based on that?

Gerry, Fished many of the tournaments and never saw a survey taken, also fished many weekend dates this year as I had those dates available, didn't see one survey at Belmar or Point Pleasant docks...

[Detour66]

I wonder if the party and charter boats keep info on how many people fished on the boat and how many keepers where kept per day. If they do pool all of this info together and divide it by the days in a open season including days you can't go out due to bad weather you will get a good idea if we "overfished". I am sure the numbers will indicate we where way under!

[tautog]

Partyboats all have trip sheets with numbers and catches that are documented and then sent to the government. Once they get to the government they are promptly put into crates and put into that warehouse with the Arc of the Covenant.

[stevelikes2fish]

2012: Total of 52 trips(party, charter & private)
2013: So far total of 51(party, charter, private & inlet)

Over a hundred trips in 2 years, never once seen a fish counter!

[CaptMarc]

Charter boats are suppose to keep a log. For me, this season fluke fishing wasn't great. I was never surveyed. The only survey I get is for tuna.

[bunker dunker]

"get Your Fillet Knives Here"...."real Sharp Dexters Here",,,

[makosnax]

Salt water registry was never intended to collect data, it was merely a headcount so they can calculate how much to charge for a saltwater fishing license.

[Angler Paul]

Thanks for the input guys. I was really looking for any information to help prove that the MRIP survey was not conducted properly. I could do a poll about our fluke catch but they would never accept the results. Anyway here is a link about the survey. They make it sound good but we all know it is highly inaccurate. In addition to phone calls there are dockside surveys taken at various locations. The list of where they take the surveys in our state is probably on their web site somewhere.

https://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/mrip/aboutus/statistics.html

[Taxman]

On the opposit end of the spectrum, I have made 4 trips to California to fish thru the years. I purchased the one day license before getting on Party Boat

I was called twice to do a survey. When I told them I lived in NY they told me it didnt matter so I took the survey

[stevelikes2fish]

They watch allllll these internet sites and add whatever % needed to crush the quota.

Just why I don't post reports or pics..................

[Offshoreafflicted]

I have never been surveyed, ever. Get the word out that when a surveyor comes along just tell them you caught nothing. Fished all day and not a fish in the past 10 trips.