Dichotomy among njfishing members

[bulletbob]

Noticed something here that would make an interesting discussion topic..
Not arguments, not anger, not accusation please..
I am NOT trolling, just interested in a good discourse..
I have noticed that the guys that post mostly in fresh water are adamant C&R advocates,all about not keeping fish, and discourage it for the most part. They sometimes complain bitterly about guys that make a habit of keeping most of their catch to eat, and often use the term "bucket brigade".. I understand their consternation, and often [not always] agree.

however on the salt water side of this same excellent forum, we see pics of "mass slaughter", decks full of fish, and most [not all] keeper size fish are taken home to eat.
If anything is said to those that catch lets say their limit of big stripers every day for a week, there is a lot of defensive and offensive banter back and forth among the advocates of C&R, and those of Keep it to eat..

I often wonder which side I am on.. I do take some fish home to eat, but often release everything as well.. This year I caught my personal best SMB, and wasted her by taking it home.. I still feel awful, I never should have killed that big old girl.. It was stupid..
Few weeks later i caught my PB Walleye, and never even thought about keeping... I let her go instantly...

Is it strictly a fresh water/salt water thing??
The mindset that FW fish are "harder to replace",and that SW fish are there in such numbers that they are harder to deplete??
I dunno, we have all seen SW fish depleted, and FW fish that are always there yar after year despite heavy pressure...
Again, just want reasonable thoughts and opinions on the topic.. Lots of nice guys here, no need to argue..
Just wondering why it seems more acceptable to kill SW game fish than it is to kill FW game fish... bob

[JBird]

I think as long as you aren't breaking the law or wasting fish than take what you want. Personally, I let most big fish go, especially striped bass but that is my personal choice. I don't see how a guy could justify keeping 2 40 lb cow bass in one day the spring but maybe he has a vacuum sealer and a big freezer and he's going to feed his family for weeks with the meat. Maybe he doesn't have a lot of money and fishes to put food on the table. Just as long as it doesn't go to waste than have at it!

[bunker dunker]

Groundhog Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeteyHD]

I release all freshwater fish with the exception of a few legal trout for dinner. Saltwater I keep what I am entitled to legally and have NEVER wasted any fish. I package properly and have a stand up freezer for fish and meats. I have many friends and family members that enjoy the fish we harvest and therefore do not feel guilty keeping them because they are never wasted. I never keep small fish or above my legal limit so I abide by all laws. The huge striped bass cows Jbird refers to should go back since they are few to come by and they taste awful anyway! :D

[AndyS]

I pay $150.00 to catch and release trout on the upper Delaware with a guide.http://http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w626/AStill/IMG_6942_zps935111f0.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/AStill/media/IMG_6942_zps935111f0.jpg.html)

[chrislars]

i have a feeling some of it has to do with money spent to fish. i believe most people who freshwater fish generally stay local to their homes and can often fish from shore and not spend much money more than on gas, so the release doesn't hurt as much. plus, how many fresh water fish in NJ are really worth eating? I personally don't really care for freshwater fish besides an occasional trout.

saltwater tends to cost more for a lot of us. the cost of gas to and from the boats, the cost if you charter (especially) or go on a party boat or the cost of gas to get to the fishing grounds if you have your own boat. spending all that money makes keeping a catch to eat more worthwhile in my opinion. i personally only get on the ocean 10-15 times per year and my wife and i eat the fish i catch or i am able to spread the fillets to family and friends. i seem to get skunked on half of those trips when i should have been there the day before, haha! so, when i finally catch an edible fish, I'm keepin' it!!

it has really come down to obey the laws and eat what you catch on this site. don't waste killing fish you aren't going to eat. but, there is always debate on just HOW much fish one person can really eat... haha! :D

[bulletbob]

[QUOTE=chrislars]i have a feeling some of it has to do with money spent to fish. i believe most people who freshwater fish generally stay local to their homes and can often fish from shore and not spend much money more than on gas, so the release doesn't hurt as much. plus, how many fresh water fish in NJ are really worth eating? I personally don't really care for freshwater fish besides an occasional trout.

saltwater tends to cost more for a lot of us. the cost of gas to and from the boats, the cost if you charter (especially) or go on a party boat or the cost of gas to get to the fishing grounds if you have your own boat. spending all that money makes keeping a catch to eat more worthwhile in my opinion. i personally only get on the ocean 10-15 times per year and my wife and i eat the fish i catch or i am able to spread the fillets to family and friends. i seem to get skunked on half of those trips when i should have been there the day before, haha! so, when i finally catch an edible fish, I'm keepin' it!!

Good reply, and its pretty close to what I feel for myself...
It costs me a fortune to fish for lets say Porgies, Seabass, or tog or ling.. Because of distance more than anything.. I take most of what I am allowed.. However, local SMB ,Walleyes, or Lakers cost only a fraction, and are more readily available, and most go back into the drink these days.,,
Stripers??.. IMHO that aren't that great eating, I have caught and eaten them in years past,and always sensed a kind of old burlap sack taste.. Don't know that I would go out several times a week, and always take my limit of big Stripers.. How much meat does anyone need???. After a while it would simply seem greedy to me.. Even with Walleyes which are good eating, the majority go back in.. Typically I keep panfish if i must have fresh water fish to eat.. Nothing better to eat than yellow perch.. I like them as much as Sea Bass or ling... bob

[Mikey topaz]

Thers no wrong or right answer all i know myself evreything freshwater is always thrown back i used to keep my legal limit on trout years ago it got old quick i fish alot upstate for steelhead an browns many i catch trophy sizes they all go back to live another day let them grow and if they dnt grow let them give the joy of someone else to catch them one day perhaps a kid or someones first time fishing etc.... Saltwater wise it depends on species of the fish and size most of the time keepin my legal limit, i dkn myself id rather throw it back let it grow think thats a big problem in the state freshwater fishing wise people not letting them grow i dkn myself personally as long as its not wasted and was legal size /season/ and was killed to eat is one thing but if it was wasted or not sealed right and freezer burnt or whatever is another thing, what kills me is all big fish in all the tca areas stocked in the fall livin through the winter til april then opening day guys are allowed to take 6 so they go in there and clean house lol

[gwl2oneida]

I'd have to say is related to money spent. I can only speak for myself but shelling out a few hundred dollars tends to make me like to have something to show for it. However I'd also be very happy taking pics and measurements and let a trophy go back to water as I can just as easily have a foam replica made if it came to it. I kept all my kings, released all trout. I love blues but they meat turns me off so I don't go much anymore, also most boats gaff their blues which is certain death. That's my 2 cents.

[Fin Reaper]

Grew up on lake Musconetcong and fished every damn day but we only ever kept / ate perch caught thru the ice. Everything else tasted like the lake smelled which wasn't always a good thing (especially in August). We also had family with boats in Point P so we did a lot of Fluke fishing and kept everything we were legally allowed to...I think it comes down to not just taste or an investment of time / money I think there is this subconscious thing that a bunch of fish from the ocean wont be missed but a bunch from the lake will...can't defend it, just saying

[RnK]

Grew up on lake Musconetcong and fished every damn day but we only ever kept / ate perch caught thru the ice. Everything else tasted like the lake smelled which wasn't always a good thing (especially in August). We also had family with boats in Point P so we did a lot of Fluke fishing and kept everything we were legally allowed to...I think it comes down to not just taste or an investment of time / money I think there is this subconscious thing that a bunch of fish from the ocean wont be missed but a bunch from the lake will...can't defend it, just saying

Having done a lot of fresh and salt, I think that is a very good summation.

Besides the resource seemingly so much more limited in fresh water, plus with the exception of a few fresh water fish (perch, walleye) they simply are not good table fare. Native trout are delicious, but hatchery fish leave a lot to be desired from what they are fed. I'd venture to guess there many fishermen of largemouth bass that have eaten one.

Everything that comes out of the ocean is excellent table fare, with very few exceptions and some of us would argue even what most turn their noses up at, like blues, can be delicious if prepared in a compatible manner, like smoking blues. Additionally, salt water fish freeze very well short term and that shelf life can be extended 3-4x by vacuum sealing.

[catfishonthelake]

I'm almost a total 100% catch and release but, but I keep a few fish every year. I caught a couple good eating size walleye on Greenwood Lake last December and cooked them, they were pretty good. The next day I drove down to Sea Isle and caught a pile of tog and then cooked them. I'll never waste my time with another walleye.

[GetANet]

I'm NOT FOR OR AGAINST taking fish to eat! I don't have a problem with anyone taking some fish to eat, to each his own.
I fish both fresh and salt water and Do occasionally take fish to eat but normally always release them.
I understand both sides of the coin. My issue is people who load their BUCKETS with anything and everything they catch totally disregarding the law and people who take TROPHY FISH just because they caught it and wanna to parade it around and then it ends up in a trash can! I agree with one of the previous posts I think catch and release is practiced more in fresh than salt and I think that is what helps keep the fishery going. I think that a lot of anglers think that saltwater fish are a never ending source and that is definetly not the case, any fish can be harvested to near extinction especially when your taking the breeders!!! How much you spend shouldn't determine whether you eat it or not! Not looking to preach just my opinion!

[NoLimit]

What Fin said and you should have kept the walleye and released the smallmouth.

Freshwater fish taste like mud compared to saltwater (except walleye and perch and crappie through the ice) and our kids were raised on a fair amount of fish and game because you know it is not loaded with crap.

Flyfishing is fun but who has time for fun anymore - I like filling the freezer with the best food on earth.

[Capt Derek Fisher Price 3]

All i can say is that i personally don't like freshwater fish to eat. I fish freshwater for both bass and trout and don't really care to eat them. As much as I am out fishing, i eat striped bass on occasion, (maybe 3 times a year), I love fluke and flounder, and blackfish and ling are at the top of my list.

[papabear2611]

All i can say is that i personally don't like freshwater fish to eat. I fish freshwater for both bass and trout and don't really care to eat them. As much as I am out fishing, i eat striped bass on occasion, (maybe 3 times a year), I love fluke and flounder, and blackfish and ling are at the top of my list.

Agree with above, and most posts. I live by at least 5 streams and lots of lakes here at the base of the poconos, I dont care for most FW, some walleye or perch, sometimes a few salmon, as for me, nearly everything FW gets C&R, (The "bucket brigade" here mainly refers to hatchery trout that are stocked in places that many wont live to a year, still I release them myself, or hand the pole to the dad with kid who isnt catching any.

I have been on 6 packs and PBs where we had a (legal) pile of fish, as for me, every one of mine I consider a blessing from above and treat it as such, bled, final finish dressed at home, v bloodline removed, packed to death if not eaten right away. In fact I have been meaning to ask why no one seems to save cheek meat out of stripers? Seems like a lot wasted? If it is half as good as other fish cheek meat? Never understood that one, anyone try it?

I don't get to fish the salt much but love well cared for striper and tog and will keep what few I do get, Unless its a breader/cow etc. Every bite is up there with a lobster dinner for us, special occasion dinner.

WHAT I DO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT: Not doing more for my part to stop the slaughter with netting commercially that goes on down south for stripers or them being killed as bycatch, just the pics of the hundreds floating the other year still makes me sick. If I knew more what I could do, I surely would.

[Capt Sal]

First of all stripers do not taste like a burlap bag.If they did the commercial worth would be zero$.Most of the pictures posted are for the purpose of making a living on a for hire boat.I do agree action pics are way better.I eat a few bass a year but that is because I catch tuna,fluke,sea bass etc.Not everyone has that opportunity.I also fresh water fish in Florida.When there I only keep crappie.A good day of fishing is about having a good time and if you get a couple of meals out of it consider it a bonus.We all need to practice conservation so only keep what you need.Most fish do not freeze well and fresh is best.:)

[Duffman]

di·chot·o·my
dīˈkätəmē/
noun
1.
a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different.
"a rigid dichotomy between science and mysticism"
synonyms: contrast, difference, polarity, conflict;

Don't lie.... Some of y'all had to look it up too.....:p

[bulletbob]

First of all stripers do not taste like a burlap bag.If they did the commercial worth would be zero$.Most of the pictures posted are for the purpose of making a living on a for hire boat.I do agree action pics are way better.I eat a few bass a year but that is because I catch tuna,fluke,sea bass etc.Not everyone has that opportunity.I also fresh water fish in Florida.When there I only keep crappie.A good day of fishing is about having a good time and if you get a couple of meals out of it consider it a bonus.We all need to practice conservation so only keep what you need.Most fish do not freeze well and fresh is best.:)


You're right.. Burlap bag is not correct.. More like a kerosene rag...
Its been a while but I just was never crazy about them...
Maybe the ones I ate were fresh out of the hudson... It was a long time ago that I last kept one, back when any striper was a rare catch in the 80's...
When I lived in union Beach and caught them I usually released them...
I may try another smaller one some day...

In any case, I get distressed seeing the pics of all those big girls laying in bloody piles... IMHO they are a noble fish, and we forget how they were pretty much absent for decades... I say a little self restraint goes a long way, and I give a lot more credit to the guys that keep a keeper size schoolie to eat, and release the big cows... I like fish too, but keeping all those big stripers every spring and fall to eat??.. Just doesn't bode well for the future... I hope i'm wrong, and those big stripers keep showing up every spring and fall..

I guess my problem with all of this lies in the general nature of many human beings..
A lot of us appreciate the resource and want to preserve it.. A lot simply want to exploit it... Some simply don't care either way, and sadly there are some that would be more than happy to catch the worlds last 40 pound striper and eat it, or shoot the worlds last 10 point buck and mound its head in their living room... This is a good and respectful discussion,, thanks to all.. bob

[PAMonger]

I think a lot of it has to do with how you were raised. For instance, my dad always taught me not to do something that would injure an animal just for "sport". If there is an injured animal or if you are hunting or fishing, everything possible gets used as a manner of respect for that animal's life.

With that said, I don't like to fish for species that I won't use because of the amount of stress you put on the fish through the fight, the handling, etc. and the chance of a swallowed hook or foul hook. If I am fortunate enough to be at my limit of fish or if I have all that I can use/handle, I stop fishing, unless there is a reasonable chance that I can get something else (i.e. striper limit, I switch to bluefish). I only get out 2-3 times per year on the ocean, so with the vacuum sealer at home, I will take home anything I'm legally allowed to for the freezer.

But, that's just my personal experience.

[bulletbob]

Personally, I simply don't need that many fish.. All my boys are long since gone, wife and I are alone, and my family are all in NJ 250 miles from here.
I keep a few fish here and there.. Caught 3 nice keeper blacks last Sunday, gave my son and his wife some, and i kept the rest.. It was really too much.. My wife won't eat fish.
I will be eating tog every night for a week.

I suppose if I were the type to give tons of fish to everyone around me, I would be more prone to keeping fish when I caught big numbers/..

I suppose individual circumstances sometimes dictate how many fish you kill.

[Denlon]

Up until the time I went to college, my family was very needy and my Dad and I always kept all the trout we caught to eat. Same for Fluke (never called them Flounder) and Blackfish (Never called them Tog!). As things got financially better, all trout were released. The only freshwater fish I keep now days are the Yellow Perch and Calico Bass (Never called them Crappies) and sometimes big Sunfish that I catch through the ice. I really love the perch caught through the ice.

Now days, I still will keep a reasonable number of Fluke, Blues, Stripers, Weakies, Seabass to eat that day only. All the rest are released. I never freeze fish anymore.

The only fish I ever regret keeping was an 11 pound Fluke that I caught in Barnegat Bay on the first trip out in my first new new boat in about 1980. I guess I just wanted to show my Father what a great fisherman I was or something like that. I still regret it and I have never kept a large Fluke like that since. Anything over about 4 pounds goes back alive.

Denny

[Gerry Zagorski]

Nice to see everyone stating their opinions respectfully and brushing up on their vocabulary words. :D

[GDubya07]

Nice to see everyone stating their opinions respectfully and brushing up on their vocabulary words. :D


Until this post - :D

As long as you stay within the law/ regs your good . . Some peeps are just in different places/ parts of there life. I have a different view now than I did 10 years ago let alone 10 minutes .

Fresh Water I release everything

Salt water is different - I eat what I catch so I love it and try not to waste and yes I do freeze my catch.

I really dont know what I would do with a 10lb + fluke - it is one of my favorite fish to fish/eat and have been looking for my Doormat for years -

10 + Blackfish I would release since it takes so long to get that big

But I do not have to worry about this since I havent even have gotten anything even close

Now lets keep playing nice

Happy Holidays

GDubs-:cool:




GDubs- :cool:

[jmurr711]

I THROWBACK everything i catch in freshwater except yellow perch, crappies,catfish & big bluegills if i am up the mountains...

Salwater well i keep everything that I am allowed even fluke i just give that trash away. I keep my 2 big bass in may or june & eat em all summer & nothing goes to waste.i am lucky to be able to get out once every couple of months anymore & have a freezer that i keep all my stuff vaccuum sealed in.

[HydraSportsPT]

Here is a dichotomy -
Tourneys - Esp Fluke, my fishing partner had just got back from serving over seas, 1st trip he pulls a 26 inch fluke out of SH. We kiss it, photo it and release thanking the fish gods for rewarding us and hoping carma pays off.

We enter a tourney - he pulls a 9.75 lb r out of the same hole, we debate, kill it and motor to weigh it. I hated bringing that fish in but really wanted to win the prize, brag rights, etc......never felt good about it.

No good answer for catch n release during tourneys, but for sure another type of dichotomy

[bulletbob]

Here is a dichotomy -
Tourneys - Esp Fluke, my fishing partner had just got back from serving over seas, 1st trip he pulls a 26 inch fluke out of SH. We kiss it, photo it and release thanking the fish gods for rewarding us and hoping carma pays off.

We enter a tourney - he pulls a 9.75 lb r out of the same hole, we debate, kill it and motor to weigh it. I hated bringing that fish in but really wanted to win the prize, brag rights, etc......never felt good about it.

No good answer for catch n release during tourneys, but for sure another type of dichotomy

In the words of the great outdoors writer Frank Woolner..
"Fishing should be a contemplative sport, not a competitive one..|
I could not agreed more..
Up here, there are CONSTANT tounaments.. Trout in all the Finger Lakes, Bass in many upstate lakes like Cayuga, Catfish right here in the susquehanna.. We even have a Crappie Derby on Whitney Point Reservoir, that usually draws 2000 people...
Needless to say Crappie fishing is tough there now .. Too many people taking too many fish on a small lake.. No lake can withstand the pressure of modern tourneys.. Actually I'll say the same thing about the ocean.. Too many good fisherman with great gear these days.. It isn't like it was 50 years ago... The pressure is relentless, and at least here in NY, the mortality rate is huge.. Hundreds of dead bass at the weigh in station at the launch at Cayuga Lake State Park..,, Even worse on a major Potomac River tourney..
I realize I am in the minority here, but I personally feel tournaments are shameful, and participants should re examine their need to "compete"... I view game fish as a noble adversaries, worthy of respect... Just seems a shame to kill them for a dopey competition, or abuse them until they die when released. They aren't even eaten.. They just die... really sad..bob
http://www.flwoutdoors.com/community/talk/forum/messageview.cfm?FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Threaded&catid=23&threadid=2349

[HydraSportsPT]

I appreciate your view, the tourney was a charity fund raiser for female b cancer cause, good cause not so good results.

[rumster]

Great topic Bullet Bob and it was presentation of the topic that lead to a very good discussion.

[bulletbob]

Great topic Bullet Bob and it was presentation of the topic that lead to a very good discussion.
Thanks..

I used the term "dichotomy" because I am double minded myself.. On one hand, I almost always throw back my best and biggest fish.. Yet not long ago, I kept a giant SMB.. For WHAT???.. I have no answer... I have felt awful ever since.. The big old girl should still be swimming in Keuka lake...

I hate tourneys, yet i always enter the pool on a head boat.. Even split a pool last sunday.. Its a competition right???... Same as a tourny.

I am a conservationist, but yet I have had many full cooler/full bucket days over the decades, and was looking for people to take fish from me.. Not often, but still guilty nonetheless.

I am part of the double mindedness, and not proud of it.. I throw a lot of fish back, most fish actually, but still have the need to drag tails home sometimes..... I guess I am trying to find out if there's something wrong with me, or if its a common theme a lot of us share... bob

[HydraSportsPT]

Bob - Nothing wrong with you.
The tourney that was sighted was a fresh water most redicoulous waist of resource the guy could find - it had not comparitive threads to what I was talking about - compare a 12 boat tourney keeping 3 fish each to a fresh water kill with 316 boats, 1000 LMB, 3200 fish entries and then quote(Bulletbob) "Just seems a shame to kill them for a dopey competition, or abuse them until they die when released.". Its like saying in we should clean up the Raritan Bay because in China they are really polluting their eco system with industry. They are both on target but neither really have any thing to do with each other!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Could not pass this one up and lifted it off Facebook.

[SaltLife1980]

Could not pass this one up and lifted it off Facebook.


LMAO:D

[Ol Pedro]

To each his own. I eat Crappie / Sunfish(need to take them out or they will stunt the lake), Yellow Perch , Trout , and Channel Cats from fresh water. Bass I now release. Saltwater I eat what ever is in Season . Tuna and Stripers on the top of the list. The only fish we eat is what we catch or canned Tuna when we are desperate.

[Offshoreafflicted]

It's pretty simple for me. I like eating saltwater fish, I just think they taste better. Freshwater fish taste like bugs so I set them free.

[Denlon]

...Salt water is different ....... yes I do freeze my catch.

Gerry,

I still may freeze a few Fluke fillets or Blackfish, but never any oily fish such as Bluefish, Stripers, Weakfish or Mackerel.

Even if these fish are in the freezer for only a short period of time (A week?), the fish that comes out of the freezer is NOT the same as the fish that went into the freezer.

Eat them fresh the day you catch them, give a few excess to family or friends if they will eat them immediately, and release all the rest.

Denny

[unclegary47]

Don't eat any freshwater fish. And the really big tog and stripers that I do hook USUALLY play C&R with me!:D

Great Holidays ALL UNC