Point Pleasant Canal??

[Fluken-Around]

Wanted to take me kiddos down next week to play with the toy tautog's. They absolutly have a blast catching those little buck tooth's outa there. Any word if they r catching them in the canal yet? Thanks.

[Scotty]

may even see a few short seabass around. I was using clams on a sabiki and pulled up 3 at once in the shark river, near the bridge. recommend hitting the canal at slack tide (+/- 3 hours from Manasquan Inlet high tide) to prevent lsos of tackle. good luck!

[teddysclaw]

I don't really recommend keeping any from the canal. The upper barnegat bay was declared highly contaminated following the hurricane. And while the water current in the canal has a very fast flow rate, the total volume of water washed in and out is not that great relative to the amount of dirty water in the Barnegat.

Give it at least another year to let the fish filter out the toxins a bit more before considering consuming fish from there.

[Reel Class]

I don't really recommend keeping any from the canal. The upper barnegat bay was declared highly contaminated following the hurricane. And while the water current in the canal has a very fast flow rate, the total volume of water washed in and out is not that great relative to the amount of dirty water in the Barnegat.

Give it at least another year to let the fish filter out the toxins a bit more before considering consuming fish from there.

Huh?

I guess we're in trouble with the fluke we caught in upper Barnegat bay and the manasquan river this summer LOL.

There have been NO restrictions on harvesting fish or shellfish in upper Barnegat bay (none that I'm aware of!) and the bay was deemed "safe" early on in the spring after debris and whatever else was removed from the bottom.

Teddy, Before you post something like this support your "claim" with real data or something that backs what you said. If you have something that clearly states that there are restrictions on keeping and consuming fish from upper Barnegat bay, post it, and no one will doubt you - including me! Otherwise, please don't post outrageous things here like that that will turn off people from fishing in our area.

[teddysclaw]

Just because there isn't scientific data regarding something doesn't mean that it's safe.

Example. Vioxx a Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory used for pain relief, that was supposed to have all kinds of benefits for patients with medication induced ulcers. Clinical trials all showed how it was better for u. Yet, post-marketing information 3 yeras down the line showed much higher risk of cardiovascular death.

So, in the 3 year span between Vioxx's release and the post-marketing information release, I guess you should just automatically assume that the drug was safe? No.


I'm just giving a word of caution to people. Pollutants and toxins build up in the body of marine animals. Especially more so in places where the water isn't quite as free to move. I.e. bays, rivers, lakes, etc.

Secondly, condemning an area to fish is something that isn't taken too lightly with the local governments as well as state. It puts economic and social pressure on the area and no one wants to see that.

Another example that will hit closer to home. Preliminary findings show that the radiation and nuclear wastes from the Japanese Nuclear plant explosion has started to reach California coasts and fish in the eastern pacific are starting to be found with higher levels of poisoning. Yet, our wonderful california government still has yet to issue a statewide warning regarding seafood, because that would destroy the pacific seafood industry.


Our governments generally wait until all data is conclusive and then wait a bit more, before releasing warnings to the general populace. ESPECIALLY when it's regarding issues liek this, where eating polluted fish will not cause an immediate rise in illness. Most pollutant related illnesses take years to develop, and generally policy makers don't look at it as their responsibility since the consequences won't occur till they're gone.


I understand you want to protect the fishery and increase the number of fisherman and fishing related businesses. That's respectable and understandable. Unfortunately, when I see something that might be harmful, I point it out and try to warn people. I'm sorry if that will cause a small downturn in business.

If I see a new drug and some parts of the clinical trials and safety profiles look a little iffy, I advise my patients to wait another 5 years before deciding to try this new medication, unless it's for an orphan disease state that has no other therapies available. Will I cost the drug company a lot of money by advising my patients against this therapy? Perhaps. Most likely not, considering I am only a single practitioner. But I could honestly care less if i'm costing you money, if i'm looking out for the wellfare and health of the general populace.

Sorry if this upsets you, but I will continue to point out potential sources of danger. I'm not saying I will always be right, but I never stated I was a 100% trusted authority on the matter either. I gave my opinions and advice, which is allowed on this board last I checked.


And logically speaking, pollutants in the water, less than a year ago. involving a body of water that is fairly stagnant for a saltwater collection. Advising people to wait a year to consume fish from that area seems to be the safer route, than to just assume that it's safe. Blind faith and trust in our environmental groups and policy makers who determine what is safe and what is not has caused numerous problems for people in the past. You can't blame yourself for them making mistakes. But you can blame yourself for continuing to trust them. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice......

[Ismellfishy]

The question remains....are any of the toggies snappin yet??

[Reel Class]

Just because there isn't scientific data regarding something doesn't mean that it's safe.

Example. Vioxx a Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory used for pain relief, that was supposed to have all kinds of benefits for patients with medication induced ulcers. Clinical trials all showed how it was better for u. Yet, post-marketing information 3 yeras down the line showed much higher risk of cardiovascular death.

So, in the 3 year span between Vioxx's release and the post-marketing information release, I guess you should just automatically assume that the drug was safe? No.


I'm just giving a word of caution to people. Pollutants and toxins build up in the body of marine animals. Especially more so in places where the water isn't quite as free to move. I.e. bays, rivers, lakes, etc.

Secondly, condemning an area to fish is something that isn't taken too lightly with the local governments as well as state. It puts economic and social pressure on the area and no one wants to see that.

Another example that will hit closer to home. Preliminary findings show that the radiation and nuclear wastes from the Japanese Nuclear plant explosion has started to reach California coasts and fish in the eastern pacific are starting to be found with higher levels of poisoning. Yet, our wonderful california government still has yet to issue a statewide warning regarding seafood, because that would destroy the pacific seafood industry.


Our governments generally wait until all data is conclusive and then wait a bit more, before releasing warnings to the general populace. ESPECIALLY when it's regarding issues liek this, where eating polluted fish will not cause an immediate rise in illness. Most pollutant related illnesses take years to develop, and generally policy makers don't look at it as their responsibility since the consequences won't occur till they're gone.


I understand you want to protect the fishery and increase the number of fisherman and fishing related businesses. That's respectable and understandable. Unfortunately, when I see something that might be harmful, I point it out and try to warn people. I'm sorry if that will cause a small downturn in business.

If I see a new drug and some parts of the clinical trials and safety profiles look a little iffy, I advise my patients to wait another 5 years before deciding to try this new medication, unless it's for an orphan disease state that has no other therapies available. Will I cost the drug company a lot of money by advising my patients against this therapy? Perhaps. Most likely not, considering I am only a single practitioner. But I could honestly care less if i'm costing you money, if i'm looking out for the wellfare and health of the general populace.

Sorry if this upsets you, but I will continue to point out potential sources of danger. I'm not saying I will always be right, but I never stated I was a 100% trusted authority on the matter either. I gave my opinions and advice, which is allowed on this board last I checked.


And logically speaking, pollutants in the water, less than a year ago. involving a body of water that is fairly stagnant for a saltwater collection. Advising people to wait a year to consume fish from that area seems to be the safer route, than to just assume that it's safe. Blind faith and trust in our environmental groups and policy makers who determine what is safe and what is not has caused numerous problems for people in the past. You can't blame yourself for them making mistakes. But you can blame yourself for continuing to trust them. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice......

Wow

Conspiracy theorist I see?

Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Of course you can state it, but making outrageous claims with nothing tangible to support them is an attempt at raising the ire of people that read this board, like me!

There have been countless people harvesting shellfish and migratory species from the upper bay, canal, and river all season long, and no issues have been reported whatsoever. You want to put fear into these people now with your "gut" feeling? Come on.

As I said, do your research, post something that is tangible and factual, and then go from there.

[teddysclaw]

Hey man, I understand that research states definite results always right? No. Even research isn't completely right. We routinely find new data every year that negates older data.

IF i see a fire on a boat, I'm going to tell people that fire is harmful if it spreads on a boat. I'm not going to wait for a research article definitively showing that fire on a boat is a bad thing...

And it's not just a "gut" feeling. You use your own logic and personal education when making decisions and opinions. If you see 8 bodies of water, and 7 of them are contaminated, but you never got around to testing the 8th body of water, are u going to automatically assume the 8th body of water is clean based on LACK OF RESEARCH? No.

I get your constant need for research, but like I said, a lack of a reputed research study doesn't mean that things are safe. Did you know that all herbals and supplements do not need to be approved by the FDA for efficacy/safety? Many common over the counter supplements such as st. john's wort, valerian root, etc are highly toxic in the recommended doses and can cause many different side effects. Yet....our wonderful FDA allows them to pass through unregulated. Why is that? You think that because i see real-world examples of our government failing us repeatedly and our health agencies failing us that I'm a conspiracy theorist? Please educate yourself on how the real-world works and how policy and politics factor much more heavily than any real concern for the general well being of the public.

You are great at what you do. You're a fisherman. You're a captain. You are not a healthcare professional. I know what I am talking about regarding general issues pertaining to health. I know first-hand the failures that our policy makers have ensuring the citizens health. I could give you 100 real-world examples of this, but i'm not sure it would convince you in anyway.

Please do not try to be condescending and throw out terms like conspiracy theorist and "gut feeling". I was polite in all of my previous posts stating my personal opinions on the matter. Return the courtesy.

I made a recommendation that eating a slow-growing fish that lives in a area of water that was highly contaminated after the hurricane is not a great idea. Especially in a relatively stagnant body of water. I didn't state that it causes cancer, death, fetal abnormalities, high blood pressure, etc. It's not a terrible thing to caution people and state that there might be a ill-effect on health. The fact of the matter is, neither one of us knows for sure what that effect is, or if there is any at all. But it's a reasonable assumption to make, and since he said it's his CHILD, who are much more susceptible to toxins accumulated in fish, as compared to a full grown man, I made my recommendation. Pregnant women, children, and the elderly generally need to err on the side of caution when consuming potentially contaminated seafood.

So sorry I was looking out for the welfare of his child? I'll never make a recommendation again without 10 differnet examples of state-funded research showing the detrimental effects of eating post-hurricane contaminated fish 10 years down the line with a complete profile and breakdown of cancer, death, teratogenicity, and other negative effects.

Give me a break. I get that this is your life and source of income, but don't get on my case for placing a child's well-being above your business.

[Skolmann]

The question remains....are any of the toggies snappin yet??


Yes. I know someone who went yesterday and had about 40 up to 15.5"s.

[sea hunt bob]

I was there two weeks ago an it was good. Green crabs worked fine

[tautog]

I ate several fluke from the river this year. Is horniness caused by Sandy pollution?:eek:

[Flukenstein]

Ok Ted, you're a doctor. Maybe you can afford to have some of your income threatened by others opinions. Most people in the fishing industry can't. Your long, defensive answers referring to the FDA, research studies, dangerous drugs, etc. are very impressive but we can take care of our own children.

[PocketFisherman]

I like Teddy. Stated his OPINION and why he would have concerns eating fish from the bay and supported it with insight into a similar situation where trust in government advisories - or lack of, should be taken with a grain of salt.

If one guy posting an opinion on an open message board is a threat to your business, it might be time to do something else. But, that's just my OPINION.

[Reel Class]

If one guy posting an opinion on an open message board is a threat to your business, it might be time to do something else. But, that's just my OPINION.

Tim,

Teddy, said that, I didn't :D

Teddy,

you made your points and we can agree to disagree here.

Give me a buzz sometime we can discuss further :)

[Harpoon]

Guys remember not to eat anything from the ocean because of Mercury...
Don't drink bottled water since the plastic might make you sick....
Don't eat red meat since there might be antibiotics in the meat....
Probably avoid all wheat products since bad for your colon....
Sugar...for get about it!
Bacon????? Lets not even go there.

We all have more of chance dying on the parkway on the way to the fishing grounds then eating the bag limit of 1 tog per angler!

Catch em up!!!

[darrenflynn]

Guys remember not to eat anything from the ocean because of Mercury...
Don't drink bottled water since the plastic might make you sick....
Don't eat red meat since there might be antibiotics in the meat....
Probably avoid all wheat products since bad for your colon....
Sugar...for get about it!
Bacon????? Lets not even go there.

We all have more of chance dying on the parkway on the way to the fishing grounds then eating the bag limit of 1 tog per angler!

Catch em up!!!
Agreed

[HDMarc]

I ate several fluke from the river this year. Is horniness caused by Sandy pollution?:eek:

That's funny as hell!!:D

[blkbear]

waiting a year like he stated will not reduce the Mercury ,PCP or other heavy metal. once its in the fish it in the food chain.

I see no problems eating the fish from there as recommeded by the state .
but thats just my opinion

[BigBassJim]

I swam in the bay this year.
Ate the crabs
Ate the clams
Ate the fish
I haven't noticed a big difference in the way I am except now sometimes i can see things happen before they actually happen. But hey were all a little crazy. :D

[mahigold]

Didn't the original post just ask if there were any "toy togs" around for some fun with the kids ? I missed the part where he was sashimi-ing them up for youngsters.

[irishc]

I made a recommendation that eating a slow-growing fish that lives in a area of water that was highly contaminated after the hurricane is not a great idea. Especially in a relatively stagnant body of water.

A relatively stagnant body of water? Have you ever swam in the Manasquan River or Upper Barnegat Bay when the tide is running?

As for tog in the canal.... Haven't shown up yet :D !

[hookset]

Fished the canal on Monday with good results! A dozen green crabs got me 24 hits as usual missed some landed some good way to kill and hour and a half. Smallest around 9 inches biggest 14.5 inch!

[bunker dunker]

The Strugon General Has Reported That Water Is Wet,details At 11.

[HDMarc]

Fished the canal on Monday with good results! A dozen green crabs got me 24 hits as usual missed some landed some good way to kill and hour and a half. Smallest around 9 inches biggest 14.5 inch!

Good goin', that sounds around the same size as the tog I've caught in the canal last fall pre-Sandy. Where are you getting the green crabs?

[teddysclaw]

Sigh...

I was going to let this lie as it was such a waste of time trying to preach to those who don't care.

To Flukenstein,
I'm sure you can take care of your own children. Yet i'm sure you also take recommendations on vaccinations, what foods to feed, what medications to give, etc by your health care providers. Stating something like "i can take care of my own children" is nice? But the truth is, there are some aspects that you really can't. If your kid has an infection, you gonna take care of that yourself? Or are you going to go see someone to write you a piece of paper with a medication on it. Then take that piece of paper to a pharmacist to have that person document and dispense your medication. But whatever, you can take care of your own kids and you don't need no help. Got it. Secondly, just cause your a healthcare provider doesn't mean we have disposable incomes we can throw out. Pediatric doctors in a hospital make less than 95k and graduate with 300k in loans. 8 years of schooling, 4 years of low-pay residency. Plus all the hard work that you have to put in doing high-stress schooling, high-stress internship environments, high-stress residencies. Please let's not get on a soap box about who has a harder life. As tough as you think it is to succeed in the fishing industry, it's just as tough to suceed in life anywhere else. Everyone has problems. Stop trying to minimize mine. And this is before the whole Obama about to just ram every healthcare provider with a low-compensating public insurance policy that we will be forced to take. So that salary figure i just quoted? Yeah it's about to drop another 10-15%. Hmm....12 years of education to save lives, end with 300k debt, and make the same salary as a teacher in a nice highschool. Yeah, man my life is going to be real cushy. WHoooooo.

To Pocketfisherman,
Thank you. Finally someone who sees my point. Blindly trusting our government and policy makers to look out for ur best interests always is foolhardy.

To Harpoon,
it's nice that you like to ignore all the advisories by well-trained professionals and research studies that show that everything u stated so sarcastically is in fact true. Seems kind of weird that I'm arguing that our policy makers don't care about us enough to give our warnings in a expedited manner. And here you are, telling me to ignore what our policy makers are saying. I'm not exactly sure what point your trying to prove. So do we listen to the policy makers or not? Cause on one hand, they are seaying the fish in our waters is ok to eat. But on the other hand, you're tellling me to ignore what they're saying and just go eat red meats, drink bottled water, and eat mercury ridden fish. So which is it?


To BlkBear,
Not sure why you don't think that waiting a year won't reduce the pcb and mercury levels in a fish. Most animals have a filtration system in their body, whether it's a hepatopancreas or a liver. Generally, what happens over time is that the toxins accumulate in these organs and while there won't be a significant drop in total level of toxins in the fish, there will be a lower concentration in the meat and areas we generally eat. So, the real-world level of exposure to toxins is lowered if u do wait. As long as another crazy polluting natural disaster doesn't occur.


To BigBassJim and to Tautog,
It's very nice that you got to eat and swim in our NJ waters without any adverse effects. Two things for u though. First is that most adverse effects aren't seen until decades down the line. Secondly, just because you personally didn't have any adverse effects doesn't mean others will not. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as research studies. We'd all just ask u two how u react to certain chemicals. Oh, a new drug released on the market? Let's just ask these two, because if they don't react negatively.....well that's all the evidence u need. Two personal anecdotes does not make a conclusive result. People eating crabs out of Newark Bay were fine for a couple years too. 10 years down the line, health officials did a study to find out why people living along the newark bay had much higher rates of cancer. Guess what they found?

Now, PPC, and our bays aren't all as contaminated at Newark, so that was just an example. But it goes to show u that there are correlations between polluted waters and health effects down the line. And just so u know, a less polluted body of water would most likely take longer time to show effects.


To IrishC,
When I stated "relatively" stagnant body of water, did u read the rest of my explanation? I stated it has a high flow rate, but it's not a lot of volume moving in and out into the ocean. So while the water is fast in the canal, you're not really diluting the pollution all that quickly. And the water levels may be clean now, 10 months after sandy. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't dirty for a couple months after sandy and the fish had time to accumulate garbage then.


Last point, and i'm not going to post in this thread again cause half of you don't seem to read the entire posts. He said he was taking his KIDS fishing. It's nice to say "I can tkae care of my kids" or "I ate this, i'm fine" but once you undersatnd how kids metabolize chemicals and are not basically just little adults, you will understand. Children have the highest negative effects to pcbs and mercury. So a level of mercury in a fish that is OKAY FOR YOU, will not necessarily be okay for a child.

KIDS=be careful. The rest of you adults can gorge on fish for all I really care. You're adults and you can take care of yourselves. If you don't want to heed my advice, that's fine. Its just kind of dumb for people who don't really know what they're talking about to come on here and try to trash me with sarcastic comments. I've refuted all your points and if you don't like it, that's okay you're allowed your opinions. Just show some class next time. It's okay to have discussions without getting snotty like we're a bunch of school children.

[Harpoon]

I guess I'm saying pick your poison...cause apparently everything we do from the minute we fall out of our mothers vajay jay is wrong. So we might as well just get on with livin and enjoy life...cause you never know whats gonna happen. Look at today's date as a reference.

[Fluken-Around]

Guy's just wanted to find out if the toy tautog's are chewing to have some fun with the kids. Didn't want this to turn into a political war on who and who should not eat the fish.

Thank you for all who responde about the tautog chewing in the canal...were going to give it hell this week

[mlp1986]

Fluken- let us know how you do please I'd like to hit the canal too if the fishing's heating up. Good luck buddy

[Ismellfishy]

I was there monday morn with 2 dozen greenies, had go make several calls on my way to find themand fished til they were all gone. they were def snappin, no keeps. also make sure to bring a rod with a diamond jig, swimming plug, swimbait or popper cause blues were around and all hell even broke loose for about 30 seconds. shame on me for traveling light. rummaged through my car and found a 4" mirr-o-lure and got one blue in the 2-3 lb class

[Flukenstein]

Ted, We get it. Your years of training and dedication have made the world a better place for those of us who live in ignorance. Thank God for people like you. You don't seem to want any discussion but would rather deliver lectures. When someone doesn't agree with you, you seem to think it's only because they don't understand the situation and need further clarification. Your arrogance is amazing.

[tautog]

People are so afraid of everything these days. How many thousands of fish would you have to eat before you say an effect? Most farm raised fish is full of antibiotics and fish crap, but millions of people eat them with no effect.

[Skolmann]

People are so afraid of everything these days. How many thousands of fish would you have to eat before you say an effect? Most farm raised fish is full of antibiotics and fish crap, but millions of people eat them with no effect.


BINGO !!!!

[chef bet]

I agree w/ Teddy your opinion is real and you have that right to voice it any way you want

[jmurr711]

first canal post & Mikey isn't here to say

THERE ARE NO FISH IN THE CANAL!

:( :(

[Captain Ahab]

Hold on a minute - there are fish in the canal? I am gonna invite everyone ! :)