Help Needed Please Read

[Pride Fishing Tackle]

If you like fishing, clean water, swimming and boating, I strongly suggest you help in getting this proposed project stopped.

Massive Liquid Natural Gass Tanker Port proposed off
Sandy Hook, NJ and Jones Beach, NY

http://cleanoceanaction.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-project-that-rose-from-dead-to.html

[Pride Fishing Tackle]

If your are a business owner and have a Facebook Page for said Business could you please re-post and better yet pay to boost this info. Our shop page has all the info pinned to the top and we paid to get the message out there. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Capt. Debbie]

I don't agree. That transfer location should be done.

More baseless hysteria feeding ignorance. Like the nuclear demons are being cut loose again.

BUILD IT! THEY WILL COME...

[pulltaug]

A few points:
This is a similar proposal that was vetoed by Christie in 2011

Now I don't know if I support this project or not...but here is my perspective on the issue...
there are some good things here if you are a capitalist/business owner/fisherman.

just hear me out....(or read below)

1. It would be about 45 ships a year - pumping LNG through a pipeline to the NY/NJ Market - what does that mean for you??? Lower Nat Gas Prices! Home heating bills, cooking gas and other nat gas users will see prices drop in the area...that's a good thing! Will keep costs for business owners down and put money back into the pockets of homeowners - who may be able to go fishing a little more often rather than worry about their energy bill.

2. JOBS - the construction of the pipeline would connect to a pipeline that already exists just 15 miles off Sandy Hook. The new pipeline or Port Ambrose would actually be 20 miles off Jones Beach and 28 miles east of Long Branch. To build it - you need people and that means JOBS. Take a look at what's happened in areas of the country like Pennsylvania and North Dakota where Nat Gas finds and facilities have created thousands of jobs and a boom in local economies. Nat Gas is growing rapidly. Buses, garbage trucks and other rigs are already starting to use it as fuel instead of Gasoline. Demand is only going to grow and considering the dense population in the area - you can bet there will be a price spike if they don't figure out a way to get more nat gas here.

Now on the other side - Environmentalists are concerned about ocean pollution and the use of the port for exporting gas to foreign countries.
i get it - it's important and the tourist industry (including our fishing boats)
are concerned about leaks or problems etc.

but here again...Look at the gulf of mexico - the number of rigs there are astonishing. well over 700 rigs pumping oil to pipelines in the gulf of mexico...and if you ever fished there - you would'nt even know they are there (many are hundreds of miles offshore - others are just 10-12)
and some of them provide great areas to fish!

So the impulse here is to say "not in my backyard" - or ocean for that matter...and I get it....
but looking years out - this could be a boon for your business, the party boats, the charter captains and more.

Simple math -
Jobs + Lower Gas Prices = More Money for people to use for fishing and local business.

[Flukinator]

A few points:
This is a similar proposal that was vetoed by Christie in 2011

Now I don't know if I support this project or not...but here is my perspective on the issue...
there are some good things here if you are a capitalist/business owner/fisherman.

just hear me out....(or read below)

1. It would be about 45 ships a year - pumping LNG through a pipeline to the NY/NJ Market - what does that mean for you??? Lower Nat Gas Prices! Home heating bills, cooking gas and other nat gas users will see prices drop in the area...that's a good thing! Will keep costs for business owners down and put money back into the pockets of homeowners - who may be able to go fishing a little more often rather than worry about their energy bill.

2. JOBS - the construction of the pipeline would connect to a pipeline that already exists just 15 miles off Sandy Hook. The new pipeline or Port Ambrose would actually be 20 miles off Jones Beach and 28 miles east of Long Branch. To build it - you need people and that means JOBS. Take a look at what's happened in areas of the country like Pennsylvania and North Dakota where Nat Gas finds and facilities have created thousands of jobs and a boom in local economies. Nat Gas is growing rapidly. Buses, garbage trucks and other rigs are already starting to use it as fuel instead of Gasoline. Demand is only going to grow and considering the dense population in the area - you can bet there will be a price spike if they don't figure out a way to get more nat gas here.

Now on the other side - Environmentalists are concerned about ocean pollution and the use of the port for exporting gas to foreign countries.
i get it - it's important and the tourist industry (including our fishing boats)
are concerned about leaks or problems etc.

but here again...Look at the gulf of mexico - the number of rigs there are astonishing. well over 700 rigs pumping oil to pipelines in the gulf of mexico...and if you ever fished there - you would'nt even know they are there (many are hundreds of miles offshore - others are just 10-12)
and some of them provide great areas to fish!

So the impulse here is to say "not in my backyard" - or ocean for that matter...and I get it....
but looking years out - this could be a boon for your business, the party boats, the charter captains and more.

Simple math -
Jobs + Lower Gas Prices = More Money for people to use for fishing and local business.

Natural Gas pipeline access has almost nothing in common with oil rigs. Juxtapose the economic boost natural gas fracking gave to areas with the lack of clean drinking water/air and lower quality of life for people in those areas. This isn't a simple case of "drill, baby, drill!"

[pulltaug]

While oil rigs are different from nat gas. The means of getting the oil and LNG on land is the same. It's a pipeline. And there will be no rigs off the coast. So that's a plus. Ask the people in North Dakota if they mind the nat gas pipeline or drilling there. They've made millions and towns that were once belly up are thriving. People all over the country are moving there to make tons of money. It's an economic boom. I don't know anyone who lives 20 miles out at sea so I don't really think its going to hurt quality of life...only improve it.
It's not about drill baby drill but pump baby pump!

[pulltaug]

While oil rigs are different from nat gas. The means of getting the oil and LNG on land is the same. It's a pipeline. And there will be no rigs off the coast. So that's a plus. Ask the people in North Dakota if they mind the nat gas pipeline or drilling there. They've made millions and towns that were once belly up are thriving. People all over the country are moving there to make tons of money. It's an economic boom. I don't know anyone who lives 20 miles out at sea so I don't really think its going to hurt quality of life...only improve it.
It's not about drill baby drill but pump baby pump!

[Pride Fishing Tackle]

what happens to the land that was fracked when all the gas is gone, will it be as pristine as it was prior to the fracking, and when the "gold rush" is over where will the people go, who's going to employ them. I am sure the pipeline couldn't explode either, and I am sure it will only be 45 ships per year because big corporations never lie or bend the rules, I am sure there ships will never sink, leak oil/gas, explode, run a ground etc. Will fishermen have access to fish near the terminal or will homeland security stop me from getting within 2 miles because ya never know a terrorist attack could happen. As mentioned this area is 20 miles out to sea but things like currents, wind, tides and storms could never possibly bring any pollutants to our beaches??? I am sure these companies just want your heating bills lowered, pay people a decent wage with great benefits and a pension. Regardless that I own a fishing related business, I would still be opposed to this project as I like where I live, I like clean water and air and I like to fish and surf in clean water. what makes this country great is that we all can share our ideas and beliefs.

[NoLimit]

Pride,

Somebody needs to do some homework.

1) There is not one single case of fracking fluid ever contaminating a single well. Yes, there are nasty pictures of stuff in peoples wells but that is what you get when you drill a well where gas and oil have been in shallow deposits for millions of years.

2) Natural gas and oil seep to the surface and seabed in thousands of places and have been doing so for millions of years. Each year these natural seeps leak more into the environment than all the drilling spills put together from day one. The stuff actually degrades into fertilizer over time

3) Drilling rigs and offshore stations actually have a net benefit to wildlife - its like any other bottom structure that harbors life as opposed to open bottom which is largely lifeless.

4) This state above all others needs more industry - not less.
That means paychecks for residents and tax receipts for the state. We cant even afford to light our highways anymore. It is insane to continue to stop every project because of hypothetical fear mongering.

[GDubya07]

Personally I dont know - dont like fracking one bit - -there are pluses and minuses and nobody tells the truth - it is all abot money and thats it. I dont trust corporations. As far as the tree-huggers - dont trust them either - both sides fear-monger , both sides complain - the hard part is determining the truth .

Never believe everything you hear and only half of what you see

Trust no-one Skully - The truth is out there ???

Gdubs-:cool:

[fishguy]

Fracking doesn't cause environmental damage? How do you know? This shoddily regulated method that uses chemicals nobody really knows about is scary to me. Why won't these corporations tell the public what, exactly, these chemicals are is proof enough to me that they're no good. I'll tell you this: I wouldn't swim right by the old Dutch Boy Paint factory outfall pipe on the Raritan River and I sure as s**t wouldn't drink water that had fracking chemicals in it.

This pipeline would increase the desire to frack in our region and why the f*** would we wan't to export any of that gas anyway? Shouldn't we keep all that gas here in the good old USA to make our energy costs lower? Oh, right. If we export it to Europe or somewhere the corporations who don't give a rats ass about you or me will make more profit.

This whole thing is no f*****g good. Plain and simple. "Offshore structure" my ass. Homeland security wouldn't let you within 5 miles of that thing.

[Cuz]

Having hunted in Bradford County, Pa. for many years where fracking ran rampet I know many people whose wells are contaminated with natural gas. Some of the streams I fish smell of natural gas. My friends well cap, submersible pump, all the piping, shot out of the well casing like a rocket one afternoon. The spark from his pump which was 200+ down ignited the gas in his water. Fracking five miles away caused this to happen.
All the roads are chewed up badly from 24 hour usage. They have now stopped most of the work until the gas companies pay an added tax for road repairs. There is damage on every single highway in the county. New York state is following the same suit.
Tried staying in a hotel one night. I was awaken all night by the constant sound of trucks jake brakes.
The first people to sign up for fracking got a good shafting financially. Now people have learned from all the stories retold and are a lot wiser.
The bottom line, the utility companies are the winners making millions every day. A very, very small percentage of consumers are capitalizing on fracking. All the gas is shippped to the east coast. My bill is the same every month. Before fracking and after.
After seeing this for myself, I am not in favor of any new enviromental docks, shipping platforms etc. We have survived without it this long why BS people into how it's going to help our lives. Another long term money maker for the gas companies. It will not effect the consumers bill.

[Dino]

a natural gas terminal in sandy hook bay... perfect ! might save everyone 14 dollars a year in gas bills ! lets do it ! lets make sure its installed and gas is flowing in time for the next super storm !

[pulltaug]

this has nothing to do with fracking
they are not fracking oil off the coast of new jersey!
they are pumping LNG into a pipeline to another pipeline - THAT IS ALREADY THERE!!!!
DID YOU EVEN KNOW THERE WAS A PIPELINE THERE ALREADY???
PROBABLY NOT.

Dino - This is not Gasoline and you won't be around for the next SuperStorm Neither will I for that matter.

Cuz - I don't think a pipeline in the Ocean is going to make more waves or your ride on a boat bumpier...

Again this is not Fracking...this is pumping.

[Pride Fishing Tackle]

Pulltaug,

I respect you as a fellow fishermen but common sense and logic are things your argument is lacking. Pipelines can explode right and accidents do happen? Just ask the towns folks up in Canada that didn't get blown up by a run away train but why would you care you live in the states. Fracking pollutes but your basically saying since you don't live near it then its ok with you. According to No Limit not one well has EVER been polluted by fracking. You sure, I guess the oil company sent someone out tocheck EVERY well in the US. I guess Cuz is making up what he witnessed personally in PA? What about our fellow fishermen who's streams, lakes and rivers have been polluted by fracking. What about the watershed? I guess you don't have a problem with little Sally drinking tainted water. According to you fracking doesn't pollute and another gentlemen thinks oil rigs are great natural fish structure, except when they blow up and millions upon millions of gallons flow into the ocean. I am sure the folks in Louisiana were psyched when that thing blew up and I am sure BP made everything right with folks that lost there livelihoods and took care of the families that lost loved ones. Can you please look into your crystal ball and tell me tonight's winning lottery numbers? I assume you have one because you are predicting there will not be another superstorm in our life time. That's what people said about that nasty storm that hit 20 years ago, what was it called a 100 year storm. I hope your right but when one hits when I am dead and gone then I guess my kids will have to clean up the mess. Makes perfect sense to me and a logical argument. Please send me the GPS numbers to your favorite togging spot and I will forward those numbers to the folks at LNG and have them set up the station there. I am sure that will be fine by you as then you can just tie up to the pipeline. They will welcome you with open arms and maybe give you a hot cup coffee.

At the end of day, I am a fishermen not a scientist. All I ask is that people and our elected officials use a little common sense when making an argument or decision in life. This project makes no sense to me and that's why I am against it.

[pulltaug]

Pride,

I respect you as a fisherman, but your business sense and your knowledge of what already exists is lacking.
Pipelines can explode...yes. There is over 2.5 million miles of pipeline in the U.S. and of course there will be accidents. But they are far better alternative and safer way to transport LNG or any other fuel than a tanker or freight trains. Just ask Canada. There are risks in everything we do - Planes and car accidents kill more people than pipelines....do we stop using them?

Statistics from 2005-2009 show that a pipeline is 70 times as safe as trucks, which killed 4 times as many people during those years - despite only a tiny fraction of fuel shipments.

As for where I live - I am close to a power plant that uses Nat Gas, Hydro electric power and we all live within a nuclear zone if - god forbid there was ever a nuclear disaster - we would all be toast. So we are all subject to the "pollution" of oil and gas.

I am not saying that fracking is the answer - but THIS IS NOT ABOUT FRACKING. THIS IS ABOUT A PIPELINE TO IMPORT LNG.

As for Louisiana - BP paid BILLIONS in damages and cleaned up every part of the beaches along the gulf. The fisheries there are thriving...hardly affected.
There were 14 people killed in that explosion - not hundreds like in a train accident or plane accident.

Now...as a "business man" - I think you would want to grow your business.
I would think more money in people's pockets would be better for you.
More people buying your tackle, your merchandise etc.

I would love to hear your plan for growing your business when people are paying more for gas, energy costs etc. Consumers are not dumb - they will cut the things the "like" to do rather than things they "have" to do.
Hence - recreational fishing.
So when little Sally is all grown up (and in good health) and her husband wants to go fishing - but can't because it's too much in gas for him to drive from the fracking fields of Pa. to the Jersey Shore (not to mention his heating bill which is already overdue and he has to pay it or else little Sally will freeze) ...to buy tackle from you and then go on a fishing boat which all has to be paid for stops showing up...how do you plan on growing your business?
How will you heat your shop when the price of nat gas triples because regulation and no pipelines can get LNG to power plants fast enough to meet demand?

If this project happens - it eases the burden on MILLIONS of people in our area...maybe even some potential new customers.
According to your website - you've been in business for over 30 years Congrats on that. But if you think the world economy isn't changing and Natural Gas isn't going to be thee next big thing we use for powering America...good luck sticking around for another 30.

As for my GPS numbers - I don't have any. My boat isn't big enough to get to those spots - especially in November. I take a party boat like many other fisherman - who probably buy tackle and rods from you. So if I can't get there - I am not going and that my friend, does not bode well for your business or the party boats or charter captains.

By the way when was the last time any elected official used any common sense?

This project makes total sense and that's why I have decide that I will support it.

Jobs, Lower energy costs and more business for the jersey shore.

[ColdFoot]

I'd rather be BROKE and not have to worry about LNG contamination then save a few bucks a year and risk the health of the sea, it's wildlife and myself. I don't see the world in dollars and cents, maybe that makes me ignorant, but every dolphin I see, or fish I catch, brings me more happiness then any amount of money. Or build the damn thing, and wait for the Sea to show her strength, and throw that thing all over our beaches. Don't worry though, other Clean Ocean Action volunteers like myself will spend hours cleaning it up.:)

[pulltaug]

unreal...

I'm not sure if anyone really understands this project

If you are just trying to "make waves" to save our seas....you can keep up the rhetoric.

I love the website by the way - with the words in uppercase
HAZARDOUS
JONES BEACH
SANDY HOOK
EXPLOSIVE
OVERSEAS
EXPORTS
FRACKING
STAND UP TO BIG ENERGY
SAY NO TO LNG

Stand up to BIG ENERGY...
I guess you use zero gasoline or electricity.

[paulyfish]

unreal...

I'm not sure if anyone really understands this project

If you are just trying to "make waves" to save our seas....you can keep up the rhetoric.

I love the website by the way - with the words in uppercase
HAZARDOUS
JONES BEACH
SANDY HOOK
EXPLOSIVE
OVERSEAS
EXPORTS
FRACKING
STAND UP TO BIG ENERGY
SAY NO TO LNG

Stand up to BIG ENERGY...
I guess you use zero gasoline or electricity.


I didn't want to get into this, but what the heck. You call yourself a fisherman? Any idea where this project is planned for? Hint: The new name is "Port Ambrose". Anybody remember what happened to Ambrose Light? Talk about taking a stand without doing your homework. Our area needs this project like a freekin hole in the head. Mr. Christie needs to listen to fisherman, both commercial and recreational and veto this again, just like he did the first time.
Paul

[ColdFoot]

unreal...

I'm not sure if anyone really understands this project

If you are just trying to "make waves" to save our seas....you can keep up the rhetoric.

I love the website by the way - with the words in uppercase
HAZARDOUS
JONES BEACH
SANDY HOOK
EXPLOSIVE
OVERSEAS
EXPORTS
FRACKING
STAND UP TO BIG ENERGY
SAY NO TO LNG


Stand up to BIG ENERGY...
I guess you use zero gasoline or electricity.



Since you seam to be such an expert, please tell me one positive thing the LNG station would bring, other then money. And none of this new fishing spot nonsense, everyone k ows you wont be able to get anywhere near that thing, not that I would ever want to.

[Capt. Debbie]

Let's get past hystronics and flawed logic to reality.

A LNG pipe line can not expode. #1 LNG will NOT BURN. Of course you knew that- right. #2 Even if someone drills a hole in it ... what exactly what will ignite the Liquid when it cools to gas state under the water? Pilot-light fish? And will there be LNG in the pipe when this happens? Remember a ship must be unloading for that to happen.

The pipe line is used to UNLOAD ships. This is not the Trans-alaska pipe line or TRANSCO. It's not a steady flow. It's a use(unload ship) and shut it down. There's NOTHING in them when a ship is not unloading!

Let's talk about nuclear power while we talk about fracking. They both have the same relevance to this pipe line.



Pulltaug,

I respect you as a fellow fishermen but common sense and logic are things your argument is lacking. Pipelines can explode right and accidents do happen? Just ask the towns folks up in Canada that didn't get blown up by a run away train but why would you care you live in the states. Fracking pollutes but your basically saying since you don't live near it then its ok with you. According to No Limit not one well has EVER been polluted by fracking. You sure, I guess the oil company sent someone out tocheck EVERY well in the US. I guess Cuz is making up what he witnessed personally in PA? What about our fellow fishermen who's streams, lakes and rivers have been polluted by fracking. What about the watershed? I guess you don't have a problem with little Sally drinking tainted water. According to you fracking doesn't pollute and another gentlemen thinks oil rigs are great natural fish structure, except when they blow up and millions upon millions of gallons flow into the ocean. I am sure the folks in Louisiana were psyched when that thing blew up and I am sure BP made everything right with folks that lost there livelihoods and took care of the families that lost loved ones. Can you please look into your crystal ball and tell me tonight's winning lottery numbers? I assume you have one because you are predicting there will not be another superstorm in our life time. That's what people said about that nasty storm that hit 20 years ago, what was it called a 100 year storm. I hope your right but when one hits when I am dead and gone then I guess my kids will have to clean up the mess. Makes perfect sense to me and a logical argument. Please send me the GPS numbers to your favorite togging spot and I will forward those numbers to the folks at LNG and have them set up the station there. I am sure that will be fine by you as then you can just tie up to the pipeline. They will welcome you with open arms and maybe give you a hot cup coffee.

At the end of day, I am a fishermen not a scientist. All I ask is that people and our elected officials use a little common sense when making an argument or decision in life. This project makes no sense to me and that's why I am against it.

[CatchEmUp]

Pride,

Somebody needs to do some homework.

1) There is not one single case of fracking fluid ever contaminating a single well. Yes, there are nasty pictures of stuff in peoples wells but that is what you get when you drill a well where gas and oil have been in shallow deposits for millions of years.

2) Natural gas and oil seep to the surface and seabed in thousands of places and have been doing so for millions of years. Each year these natural seeps leak more into the environment than all the drilling spills put together from day one. The stuff actually degrades into fertilizer over time

3) Drilling rigs and offshore stations actually have a net benefit to wildlife - its like any other bottom structure that harbors life as opposed to open bottom which is largely lifeless.

4) This state above all others needs more industry - not less.
That means paychecks for residents and tax receipts for the state. We cant even afford to light our highways anymore. It is insane to continue to stop every project because of hypothetical fear mongering.

Probably the most misinformed, inaccurate posts I have ever read on this site. Either you work for one of these companies or you're getting paid by them. :rolleyes:

[CatchEmUp]

Let's get past hystronics and flawed logic to reality.

A LNG pipe line can not expode. #1 LNG will NOT BURN. Of course you knew that- right. #2 Even if someone drills a hole in it ... what exactly what will ignite the Liquid when it cools to gas state under the water? Pilot-light fish? And will there be LNG in the pipe when this happens? Remember a ship must be unloading for that to happen.



Just to put that statement into some context - diesel fuel/No. 2 fuel oil doesn't burn when you put a match to it either. You can pour a glass of it & drop a lit cigarette right in & that cig will go out every time. That doesn't mean it's not hazardous & won't do any harm when it's released into the environment.

[Icfos]

Build it!

[bigchefguy710]

While oil rigs are different from nat gas. The means of getting the oil and LNG on land is the same. It's a pipeline. And there will be no rigs off the coast. So that's a plus. Ask the people in North Dakota if they mind the nat gas pipeline or drilling there. They've made millions and towns that were once belly up are thriving. People all over the country are moving there to make tons of money. It's an economic boom. I don't know anyone who lives 20 miles out at sea so I don't really think its going to hurt quality of life...only improve it.
It's not about drill baby drill but pump baby pump!
Ha my wife said the same thing when we were trying to have our son pump baby pump. Lol