Bottom fishing tuesday 7/2

[bulletbob]

Despite the dire forecast may son and I made the long drive down to Point...
I thought it was going to be a horrid day when the pretty hispanic girl a few feet away turned green and started puking on the cabin floor before we got even halfway out to the fishing area.. Once on anchor however, it was really not bad, and conditions were better than I anticipated.. btw,The drive through the mountains in Pa around 4 am was horrible with lightening and driving sideways rain for an hour. Couldn't see 10 feet.Didn't slow the 18 wheelers down at all.. They threaded in and out of the slowed down cars at 70 mph...

Fishing for sea bass was pretty slow and the captain didn't spend much time with them, knowing they wouldn't cooperate with the south winds and swell that has been steady for days[weeks?} Some guys only got one, some none.. High hook got 5 I think, mostly bare keepers.
I got 3 nice ones including a big humpback that was a pool contender.. My son only got a few shorts... It was to be a ling day, I knew that early on... Ling fishing was pretty good , not spectacular.. My son and I got 16 -mixed sizes, mostly mediums, with 2 or 3 pretty nice ones.. No little ones for us today.. We did better than a few folks, but worse than several.. I am very observant, and noticed the guys a foot right of me, and a foot to the left were bailing the ling pretty good as we fished deeper drops as the the day wore on.. No mystical technique really.. In the shallow water I matched them fish for fish, but started to find we kept bringing up clean hooks. Both those guys were using braid, and I think they could feel the fish better.. I am certain braid makes a big difference when bottom fishing in deep water, but I don't like handling the stuff, and we kept hooking braid lines that guys had to cut when snagged because they couldn't break it... I need to find a good stiff, very low stretch mono of some kind.. Out the two guys near me that caught more fish than we did, one used Gulp along with his clam globs, and one didn't.. Not sure if the Gulp was the key, but he did catch more than most.. However other guys using Gulp caught less then most.. It is a weird looking mess. A big glowing green twister with a glob of clam snot the size of a tennis ball... Looks like nothing a Ling has ever eaten before, but they didn't seem to mind.. We used to catch them by the hundreds on a little piece of mackerel, or any other fish you had.. Ah well, times change...

So we brought home 16 Ling, and 3 nice C bass, which isn't a great tally, but it wasn't a "lock and load" day. You fished pretty hard to bring home fish ..
I brought Shop Rite Squid and whole smelts, but it was a waste of money, the fish wouldn't touch them.. I caught one small Ling on the squid/ smelt..
Other guys used bergall strips for ling and did ok.. I couldn't get a sniff with them, Probably because the guys using Bergall had Gulp on as well... All in all, we have had better days, but with the sea conditions, I can't complain. We brought home some nice fish, I had the biggest sea bass on the boat, and realize that I really need to get this cheap ultra stretchy $1.99 line off these reels, and find something that will allow for better hook sets, and better sensitivity in deep water...
Last week I fished the Navesink in a rental skiff, first fish of the day was a nice 19' keeper, and several throwbacks that were 16-17, So my first trips down to NJ this year have been OK.. Not great, but we'll get there when I get my tackle straightened out... The crew got an anchor snagged and broke the anchor line , something I have never seen before.. They had a spare, but I'll bet an anchor that can hold a packed head boat in strong wind costs a lot of money... Can't wait to get back to the NJ shore, wish I still lived there .... bob

[shrimpman steve]

bob
try switching to braid, you will get used to it and you cant beat the no stretch and sensitivity. give it a shot for bottom fishing, but give yourself a few trips to get used to it and you will never go back!

glad you didn't make the long drive for nothing, sounds like you and your son had a good time!

[bulletbob]

bob
try switching to braid, you will get used to it and you cant beat the no stretch and sensitivity. give it a shot for bottom fishing, but give yourself a few trips to get used to it and you will never go back!

glad you didn't make the long drive for nothing, sounds like you and your son had a good time!

SS.. I have it on a jigging rod I use up here for jigging lakers... They have mouths like cast iron, and when fishing 10 pound test mono with a 1 oz jig, in 100 FOW, many hook sets fail using mono.. Braid helps a lot with bite detection and hook sets, but to me its like razor wire... If I keep getting my ass kicked however, every time we fish deeper than 80 feet or so, I may go to braid... The main reason I don't use it when bottom fishing is that if you are on a sticky wreck, and keep snagging[like yesterday], you have to cut it each time.. You just can't break the stuff.. I may try flouro, or a flouro blend.. Thats pretty stiff, and doesn't stretch much.. and yes, we had a good time, thanks!
.. My son is 27, he and his wife recently had their first son, so its not easy for him to get away these days. I hope I can drag him down one more time this year.. bob

[hartattack]

Thx for the report, happy to see you fared well.

The best braid I've used for bottom-fishing is FINS Shock Absorber
FINS SHOCK ABSORBING Braid is designed to offer a little stretch for those fishing situations where a little give is helpful. SAB is well suited for trolling, bottom fishing, and when using topwater action baits. SAB is 75% spectra and 25% Dacron; this blend allows the line to stretch 8 to 10 percent when under a load. We are frequently surprised by the many applications anglers are finding for this style line.

http://www.finsfishing.com/sab.aspx

Try it, you'll like it :)

[SaltyAngler]

Gotta say, nothing really beats braid for bottom.

I usually stick to 30lb, and never have a problem, really. Rarely do I snag anything other than the sinker, and a good breakaway knot keeps me from losing my entire rig. (I usually use 30lb braid alberto knotted to my hi low rig (about three feet long) made out of 25lb mono)

One thing I learned: no jewelry. No beads. No barrel swivels. Nada. You feel the taps and catch more fish. (and attract less dogs..I think barrel swivels and snap swivels in particular create alot of noise underwater

Also, I've found big ling adore Gulp Ghost Shrimp...both chart and pink.

Tight lines.

[shrimpman steve]

bob
use a top shot of mono, ten feet will do. use a top shot with a lighter breaking strength. for example, use 40 pound braid and 30 lb mono leader. you wont be dissapointed.

[the1jonc]

Glad you got out. This report from you seems better than most of yours from the past year. And you got to spend the day with your son.

Try braid and your haul will definitely improve.

[bulletbob]

Glad you got out. This report from you seems better than most of yours from the past year. And you got to spend the day with your son.

Try braid and your haul will definitely improve.

I was a regular on the party boats in NJ, in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.. Always got my share, won pools, high hooks etc.. Then as time went on, things changed.. I noticed I always lagged behind in numbers and size.. I though i was "losing my touch"... I think its because the game has changed, and I haven't kept up with technology.. I am using the same tackle and tactics that served me well 30 years ago... I used to think it was just me getting older[59], but after seeing how always do pretty well until the water gets deep, I am changing my thinking... Those guys with braid were at 3 or 4 to 1 over me a foot away.. Their bait looked no better than mine, just a big glob of stinky clams, looking nothing like anything a fish would normally eat.. It simply has to be the inability to detect bites, and the inability to set the hook as well.
In the shallower water, each and every time, my boy and i did well.. The deep water we fell way behind..

If I use a 40 pound braid, and use a slightly lighter leader, say 30 pound mono, [short,maybe 5 feet], the leader should break first, correct??.. If thats the case, why do so many guys using braid cut the line when the snag the wreck?? We were snagging the braid that guys cut and was still stuck on bottom..bob

[PocketFisherman]

I find it ridiculous to hear someone say that braid needs to be cut instead of broken out of the bottom when a rig gets stuck.

If you are bottom fishing, spool with 40lb braid with 20' of 40 or 50lb mono topshot. Tie the topshot to the swivel of whatever rig you are using.

Bring a piece of broom stick or wooden dowl and wrap the braid around it several times to pull out of the bottom when you get stuck. If you are of normal strength it is done very easily. If you are a sissy ask the mate to help.

I've never cut braid because it was stuck nor have I ever seen anyone that I fish with do so. Again, just ridiculous and anyone that does so should educate themselves on the proper use of the line.

[jmurr711]

I find it ridiculous to hear someone say that braid needs to be cut instead of broken out of the bottom when a rig gets stuck.

If you are bottom fishing, spool with 40lb braid with 20' of 40 or 50lb mono topshot. Tie the topshot to the swivel of whatever rig you are using.

Bring a piece of broom stick or wooden dowl and wrap the braid around it several times to pull out of the bottom when you get stuck. If you are of normal strength it is done very easily. If you are a sissy ask the mate to help.

I've never cut braid because it was stuck nor have I ever seen anyone that I fish with do so. Again, just ridiculous and anyone that does so should educate themselves on the proper use of the line.

agreed 100% dude not to mention I aint affording to waste 100feet of it lol UlletBob go with the braid my man especially for them lings. Use a topshot of 10-1 feet the mates can show ya how to tie it or tie to a swivel the ,lead will break off or you will straighten the hooks but u get out

[Gerry Zagorski]

Albright knot is good for joining the braid to your top shot
http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/

Also keep in mind it's a good idea to put some mono backing on the spool under the braid for 2 reasons.

1) Some braids tend to slip on the spool if not backed with mono.
2) Unless your are fishing in the deep, you are only going to need 200 or so feet of braid and it will be expensive to fill the entire reel with it because of the smaller diameter. Fill the reel with mono first then top it off with braid.

[bulletbob]

I find it ridiculous to hear someone say that braid needs to be cut instead of broken out of the bottom when a rig gets stuck.

If you are bottom fishing, spool with 40lb braid with 20' of 40 or 50lb mono topshot. Tie the topshot to the swivel of whatever rig you are using.

Bring a piece of broom stick or wooden dowl and wrap the braid around it several times to pull out of the bottom when you get stuck. If you are of normal strength it is done very easily. If you are a sissy ask the mate to help.

I've never cut braid because it was stuck nor have I ever seen anyone that I fish with do so. Again, just ridiculous and anyone that does so should educate themselves on the proper use of the line.
Thats what guys were doing.. We were bringing it up with the rigs that were tied to it still on the bottom..
Why 20 feet of mono, I would think 10 would be plenty, no?

In any case, I have observed that only deep water presents a problem in me getting numbers.. I do fine in shallower water, my son too..You must remember that this 200 +fow thing i summer is new to me.. We used to ling fish in much shallower water than that, and thats what I got used to.. It was nothing to fill a bucket or two up any time I went, .. In the 80's I do not remember ever ling fishing in water that deep.. Ling were spring fall winter, except for a few that were taken while sea bass/porgie/black fishing here and there in summer.. The few boats that did that type of fishing back then in summer were always lightly attended when fluke were around anyway.. Everyone wanted the fluke, not ling and sea bass.. Times have changed, and I need to realize that if I bottom fish in summer, I WILL be spending time fishing in deep water,, The days of drifting the rocks off Deal and Elberon for sea bass in 60-70 FOW during summer might be a thing of the past.Probably not keeper sea bass there to support all the people that want them these days.. Lots of tiny ones. The pressure on bottom fish has increased 10 fold it seems since the days of no limits on fluke... It has changed the way we fish, and I need to change as well, or just not go when the boats need to fish in the Mud Hole for ling...bob

[bulletbob]

Albright knot is good for joining the braid to your top shot
http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/

Also keep in mind it's a good idea to put some mono backing on the spool under the braid for 2 reasons.

1) Some braids tend to slip on the spool if not backed with mono.
2) Unless your are fishing in the deep, you are only going to need 200 or so feet of braid and it will be expensive to fill the entire reel with it because of the smaller diameter. Fill the reel with mono first then top it off with braid.

Understood.. thats what I did on my sweet water jigging rods.. just have to get around to doing it to my bottom fishing sticks..
I can't find that stuff anywhere in this area, thats another problem.. this is fresh water only, and getting salt water gear is tough... I will have to find it online... bob

[Ol Pedro]

I'm with Jerry . I like a 20' top shot of 30 lb. mono. I just tie a dropper loop for the sinker another a couple of inches up and loop to loop for the hook/leader . The Albrite gives you better feel and goes through the guides easily . You can break out by sleeving your line or the dowel wrap mentioned earlier . The possible reason that you are getting hung up in braid left on the bottom is people are tying braid straight to their Mono rigs and they are of higher poundage . Also some people don't dispose of Braid and mono correctly . It should always go in the trash . when thrown over the side it sinks to the structure and gets hung up in it . Braid lasts a lot longer than mono.

[tautog]

Half of why I use braid is that it is so much easier to break off in deeper water. Last time I broke off 30ln mono in 250 feet it was so stretchy and so hard to break that my shoulder was messed up for a month.

[waynedane]

Whatever braid you want to use, just go with 5 lb test lighter leader material and should never have to cut braid... Just saying.:rolleyes:

[jmurr711]

reason i go 20 feet is due to abrasion resisitance when fishing sticky stuf ya may have to cut off a foot ro 2 here n there

[PocketFisherman]

20' is nice in that you get abrasion resistance and can break off a few rigs without having to replace the topshot. A little stretch is also good in the event you pickup a nice cod or pollock. Lastly, you'll have a few turns of the mono around the spool when lifting fish into the boat and lastly lastly you're more likely to have mono to braid tangles or mono to mono tangles if other anglers are rig similarly.

[PocketFisherman]

20' is nice in that you get abrasion resistance and can break off a few rigs without having to replace the topshot. A little stretch is also good in the event you pickup a nice cod or pollock. Lastly, you'll have a few turns of the mono around the spool when lifting fish into the boat and lastly lastly you're more likely to have mono to braid tangles or mono to mono tangles if other anglers are rig similarly.

[vinntastic]

Get A Couple Bags Of Gulp And Dont Leave Home Without It;)

[Blackfish Doug]

[QUOTE=bulletbob]I was a regular on the party boats in NJ, in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.. Always got my share, won pools, high hooks etc.. Then as time went on, things changed.. I noticed I always lagged behind in numbers and size.. I though i was "losing my touch"... I think its because the game has changed, and I haven't kept up with technology.. I am using the same tackle and tactics that served me well 30 years ago... I used to think it was just me getting older[59], but after seeing how always do pretty well until the water gets deep, I am changing my thinking... Those guys with braid were at 3 or 4 to 1 over me a foot away.. Their bait looked no better than mine, just a big glob of stinky clams, looking nothing like anything a fish would normally eat.. It simply has to be the inability to detect bites, and the inability to set the hook as well.
In the shallower water, each and every time, my boy and i did well.. The deep water we fell way behind..


I remember when we used Dacron & Mono was first introduced to the market. Does anybody remember Ande line coming on wooden spools? There are some very good Mono's out there with very little stretch. I have used Cajun Red, Hi Seas Quatro & a few of the P lines with very good results. I know of some very good Blackfisherman who use Mono exclusively I prefer Mono for Blackfish as well. The only time I like using Braid is when I'm fishing plus 100' depths only because of the stretch factor. Plus usually when you get stuck with Mono you usually loose more Mono so re spooling is necessary. It seems to me that when you break your line it never breaks closely to the bottom of the rig. I still have my love for Mono as you do but everybody gets accustomed to braid so it's hard to change.

[Chico]

Most of us definately DO NOT cut our braid off! Costs way too much $$. Since most braids will break way above their stated rating, I use the same strength rated mono. A uni to uni knot works great. I like 15 to 20', this way if I break some off, I can just keep going. If you do get into a tough snag, just palm the spool and hold on! Another advantage of the mono leader is that it is more abrasion resistant than the braid, if you get a big fish that goes under the boat, etc. You will be better off if the mono touches a rough surface. Another advantage of a longer mono leader is that in a tangle, the mono leader will be much easier to untangle than the braid. You should have pliers with braid cutters built in, safer than using a knife!

[bulletbob]

vinntastic]Get A Couple Bags Of Gulp And Dont Leave Home Without It;)[/QUOTE]
I had several bags with me but not the green curly tail stuff.. I had some minnow shaped Gulp in natural and chartreuse/white, and some red wormy looking ones... To be honest, some guys using it weren't doing all that great... There was a guy near me using plain clams that did very well, but he did have braid. My son and i were getting cleaned out a lot without ever feeling a hit or that telltale "weight" on the line.. On this day with the ground swell and non aggressive fish, it was the ability to detect bites or weight that separated average catches[ me] from good catches [Guy next to me].. there are some guys that swear by gulp, and some swear at it.. Two guys at the stern with me used it, and we outfished them.. They had mono on their reels, and lighter tackle as well... I don't think they felt their hits that well either.. They were cleaning up on Pout however.
I use it regularly in my home sweetwater, but am not yet 100% convinced its all that much better than a well presented Mr Twister, Sluggo, Fin S, etc.. I have found that when SMB and Walleye fishing here in NY state, that it might catch me an extra fish at times, but I just have not seen the big difference.. To be fair, when SMB fishing, I have noticed I catch a lot more fat Rock Bass when using gulp on a jig head than I would on any other jig tail, so it has scent appeal I guess.. When fluking last week, I never got a fish on Gulp nor did my brother.. I had one tap on it.. As soon as a spearing baited hook hit the water however, it was grabbed quickly while grub tipped jigs went without a sniff.. I know Gulp works, but I guess I need more convincing that its a miracle fish catcher.. When I have my first really big day with it, I will join the club.. First fish I ever caught on Gulp was Channel Cat... Thought I had found that miracle bait... Now after a lot more use, I am still not on board, but am open to the possibility...

oh yeah, forgot to mention my boy caught a massive Winter Flounder.. There were several caught.. it fought like hell, and boy was he was pissed when I told him it had to go back, especially when one of our neighbors at the stern through one he had caught into his cooler. bob