question for fluke bucktailers

[watchman]

I've been bucktailing/jigging off the back of party boats for a number of years now and have a problem maybe you guys can help me with. It always seems the bigger a fluke the further from the boat it will surface outside the mates reach. I usually end up with my tip high, reeling and backing up trying slide it in the net, keeping as much pressure on the fish as I dare. How do other bucktailers deal with this problem? I was wondering if maybe putting the tip down near or in the water might keep him from coming up so far away. It drives me nuts when a big one shakes off . thanks watchman

[Reel Class]

Having not bucktailed or fluke fished on a party boat for 11-12 years, my expertise on this topic is not where it was a decade ago, but I'll try to answer this question!

Big fluke do weird stuff. Sometimes they come up and surf the top, other times they stay down or even go under the boat. On the 6 pack boat we've seen both of those instances many times and the ones that "come up" after a run are always the ones that are the most challenging to get to the net or gaff.

Here are 2 things that might help:

1)I know when we used to fish the party boats frequently a decade + ago, the bucktailers would stick to the bow. You got more room, and you can work a fish with a little more flexibility as long as the boat is not railed.

2)One other thing that does help when landing bigger fluke is the tackle - the heavier the leader and terminal gear the better shot at landing that fish since you have more control of the situation. When you use super light tackle (I'm talking 10# braid, ultra light leader material, and a TROUT rod in bigger water) the bigger fish dictate the fight. You basically give up control when you're fighting the fish. I see so many guys fishing super light stuff for "sport" and then losing better fish because the hook pulls or something else goes wrong - HOLLYWOOD fishin don't cut it when you're trying to put meat in the box. If you just bump up the gear a tad, fish braid that's 20-30# and fish gear that's in the medium range, you always have a better chance at landing those fish.

Hope this helps :D

[Sharkyispy]

All great advice from Allen on this. I've personally learned from that over the years. The one big mistake I also see many times is people not calling for the mate/net soon enough. When you're reeling in, you will develop a sense on whether the fluke is of decent size( normally-there are those sleepers:D ). Call for the mate to get the net as soon as you get the feeling of a nice fish so when the fish does surface, you're getting a better shot at it vs. having to leave it hang in the water until the net gets there.....IMO

[italianfisherman]

when fishing a party boat, you can't call for a net until you see the fish just about to surface.

[stevelikes2fish]

When you use super light tackle (I'm talking 10# braid, ultra light leader material, and a TROUT rod in bigger water) the bigger fish dictate the fight. You basically give up control when you're fighting the fish. I see so many guys fishing super light stuff for "sport" and then losing better fish because the hook pulls or something else goes wrong - HOLLYWOOD fishin don't cut it when you're trying to put meat in the box. If you just bump up the gear a tad, fish braid that's 20-30# and fish gear that's in the medium range, you always have a better chance at landing those fish.

Hope this helps :D

Exactly!

[Sharkyispy]

when fishing a party boat, you can't call for a net until you see the fish just about to surface.

Normally I would agree, but if you have built up a relationship with the mates and you and they know your own skill sets well enough to judge the fish on the way in, it's usually not an issue. In fact some that I fish with encourage it rather than waiting....JMO

[jigemup]

Been bucktailing fluke on party boats since captains Dom and Mark encouraged bucktailing fluke on the Skipper in the 90's. All the above is good advice. In short, concerning tackle, most important thing is to make sure the drag is set properly to allow the fish to run, and when the fluke is within sight, even on the surface far from the boat, slow down the retrieve but keep enough pressure to stay hooked and to allow the fish to swim towards the net (fish cannot swim backwards).

[Life's A Beach]

Been bucktailing fluke on party boats since captains Dom and Mark encouraged bucktailing fluke on the Skipper in the 90's. All the above is good advice. In short, concerning tackle, most important thing is to make sure the drag is set properly to allow the fish to run, and when the fluke is within sight, even on the surface far from the boat, slow down the retrieve but keep enough pressure to stay hooked and to allow the fish to swim towards the net (fish cannot swim backwards).



maybe it's not "swimming" but............:confused:

[1captainron]

when fishing a party boat, you can't call for a net until you see the fish just about to surface.
Come on now.........maybe on the boats you fish. A good crew and Captain will know if you have a big fish right from the start and will most certainly be at your side way before that fish comes up.
The way fishing is today and normaly 2 mates on the boat, when is the last time you saw that many Big Fluke coming up at once were the Captain and crew couldn't handle it.:D

[jigemup]

Been bucktailing fluke on party boats since captains Dom and Mark encouraged bucktailing fluke on the Skipper in the 90's. All the above is good advice. In short, concerning tackle, most important thing is to make sure the drag is set properly to allow the fish to run, and when the fluke is within sight, even on the surface far from the boat, slow down the retrieve but keep enough pressure to stay hooked and to allow the fish to swim towards the net (fish cannot swim backwards).



maybe it's not "swimming" but............:confused:

Stand corrected, should have said hooked fish usually swim forward

[frugalfisherman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-SbF0awXrQs

[PALMERS TACKLE]

I really disagree with the bumping up of the line rating--no offense.And don't use clips swivels or anything else. Line to line using your preferred choice knot is the best way. If you are using straight mono tie a dropper at the end and come up 15" for a second dropper loop attach jig or top hook to each dropper.
I fish mainly the Ocean Explorer and the BM in Belmar and i think Capt Bobby would agree he has the best fluke fisherman and the guys who put more meat in the box using lighter line and the lightest jig weight possible. I use 15-20# test period..
Even when fishing down off cape may in 90' of water and 8 oz. jigs i use 20 # and my hooKup rate is better than those using 30-50#
guicker sink rate, better jig twitch which entices the strike.
The key is to adjust the drag and line pull on the reel and watch the water and listen to and work with the mate. Most good mates will tell you when to lift and when to direct the fish into the net rather than just stabbing at the fish..although i have seen both. Mates on the OE will drop the net into the water and have you bring fish into net while they scoop it ..The best way
Also if your standing back too far and can't see fish adjust your leader length
(assuming You are using a mono shock leader and braid setup) mono length around 3' will help
Just a humble opinion and a way that works well for me.
Hope i helped
Tony

[anchor joe]

Well said Capt. Ron. I've never been let down on the Fishermen. The Capt. makes sure the mate is there for all possible big fish.

[Sharkyispy]

I really disagree with the bumping up of the line rating--no offense.And don't use clips swivels or anything else. Line to line using your preferred choice knot is the best way. If you are using straight mono tie a dropper at the end and come up 15" for a second dropper loop attach jig or top hook to each dropper.
I fish mainly the Ocean Explorer and the BM in Belmar and i think Capt Bobby would agree he has the best fluke fisherman and the guys who put more meat in the box using lighter line and the lightest jig weight possible. I use 15-20# test period..
Even when fishing down off cape may in 90' of water and 8 oz. jigs i use 20 # and my hooKup rate is better than those using 30-50#
guicker sink rate, better jig twitch which entices the strike.
The key is to adjust the drag and line pull on the reel and watch the water and listen to and work with the mate. Most good mates will tell you when to lift and when to direct the fish into the net rather than just stabbing at the fish..although i have seen both. Mates on the OE will drop the net into the water and have you bring fish into net while they scoop it ..The best way
Also if your standing back too far and can't see fish adjust your leader length
(assuming You are using a mono shock leader and braid setup) mono length around 3' will help
Just a humble opinion and a way that works well for me.
Hope i helped
Tony

Tony fish the bow quite often with my bud and Bobby, Jeff and Mike will give us an earful if we're not calling early on! They don't like to lose the JUUUUUMMMMBBBOOOO'S LOL

[HDMarc]

I fish mainly the Ocean Explorer and the BM in Belmar and i think Capt Bobby would agree he has the best fluke fisherman and the guys who put more meat in the box using lighter line and the lightest jig weight possible. I use 15-20# test period..
Tony

I fish the OE too and can say that mates Jeff and Mike will ask if seeing your rod doubled over if you have a keeper while rushing to grab the net for you. I think they'd much rather have the net ready and available than lose a good fish. Bobby talked me into switching to 20 lb tackle with great results, conditions permitting

[LegalEyes]

My issue would be keeping the drag set were it is and focus on fighting the fish. Not rushing it.

[PALMERS TACKLE]

Tony fish the bow quite often with my bud and Bobby, Jeff and Mike will give us an earful if we're not calling early on! They don't like to lose the JUUUUUMMMMBBBOOOO'S LOL
Bobby is one of the nicest Generally respectful guys on the dock--but if you wanna really piss him off :eek: Yep call for a net on a jumbo after it surfaces..boy you will hear the steam shooting out his ears!!! AND RIGHTFULLY SO!!

[PALMERS TACKLE]

My issue would be keeping the drag set were it is and focus on fighting the fish. Not rushing it.
I agree 100% and i actually realized i didn't specify at the dock in my originall post about adjusting drag. corrected that i 99% of the time will never adjust drag during a fight...and if i do never when a fish is taking drag..

[PALMERS TACKLE]

Tony fish the bow quite often with my bud and Bobby, Jeff and Mike will give us an earful if we're not calling early on! They don't like to lose the JUUUUUMMMMBBBOOOO'S LOL
Hey mike i've met you before--not sure if you remember but i was a few down in the 4/5 spot and took the pool that day..Think my family has known bobby for at least 25 yrs--Good Guy/Great Captain Even if he is vertically challenged :eek: Ok this is starting to sound like a love fest :D

[makosnax]

Dont be afraid to call net early. Too many times ive seen fish lost at the boat because the fisherman wanted to see the fish before making the call. And for gods sake keep the fishes head under water. Better to have a false alarm than a lost doormat.

[Sharkyispy]

Hey mike i've met you before--not sure if you remember but i was a few down in the 4/5 spot and took the pool that day..Think my family has known bobby for at least 25 yrs--Good Guy/Great Captain Even if he is vertically challenged :eek: Ok this is starting to sound like a love fest :D

I hear ya., Bobby is awesome, ev en when he calls you a LOOOOOOOSER..I remember you. Fished the BM too last year...compared bucktails:D
Seriiously, some good advice provided in your post

[seazu]

as caption.ron, robbie, and chris.g has always said, never lift the fish out of the water, never give it slack, and never ever back up from the rail.:eek:

[acl1075]

Could the current be the reason for your fish coming up away from the boat? Were you fishing the side with your line away from the boat? For some reason I seem to do better bucktailing under the boat. Had a few large fish past couple years and they all hit when drifting under the boat. Actually thought I was hung up on the bottom and they came straight up and right into the net thankfully.

Anthony Liscio
Brick NJ

[SaltLife1980]

Dont forget to make sure your drag is set right.. Dont try to moose them in.. Also seen a lot of big fish dropped because people "panic reel". Steady retrieve is key..

tight lines

[aduma1107]

Dont be afraid to call net early. Too many times ive seen fish lost at the boat because the fisherman wanted to see the fish before making the call. And for gods sake keep the fishes head under water. Better to have a false alarm than a lost doormat.
I totally agree with you although on the flip side i have seen people lose bigger fish when mates are waiting beside someone reeling up a 16 inch fish.

[NoLimit]

I have never seen a line break when fluke fishing so it doesnt matter whether you have 10 lb or 80 lb.

Fluke are lost when they shake and the only way to keep that from happening is to never stop their forward motion, never lift them, and never let the net touch the tail.

If you have to wait a few seconds for the net, I have found that you should keep them moving forward in a lazy 8 pattern in front of you from side to side. So if you are bringing them in - dont stop when you reach the hull. Slowly turn them to one side and use the pole to move them round, out and back in in a wide radius.

[watchman]

thanks guys, I'm fishing 30# braid with 20# leader, no snaps or hardware. Been sitting in same corner every sunday for 15 years on the capt. cal and the mates are great. The problem I can have is with fish that surface outside the reach of the net, big fluke go where they want. What do you do when this happens, pull? give them slack? put your tip under the water? This is what has me stumped. watchman

[jigemup]

Don't panic, if your drag is set, keep enough pressure on the fluke, keep it below the surface, swim it around and lead it head first into the net.

[Reel Class]

There's a good amount of debate over the use of "heavier" braids vs. lighter braids here, all great points.

I do understand using the lighter gear to get away with the lightest bucktail you can possibly use, but my theory and the guys that have fished with me for years, at least most of them, are in the school of thought that they want to be as VERTICAL as possible on the smaller boat which tends to drift better than a 100' headboat, even in "zero-drift" conditions when I just have to pop the motors in gear to get some movement.

I think the one thing that I didn't mention in my original post and I ignored was that on a headboat, if you use the light spinning rods and the light jigs, you can cast it out and work the jig more effectively - from my perspective, on the 6 pack boat, that's basically null and void because A) a 31' will drift when a 100' will not, and B) there aren't 50-60 fares you have to contend with when tangles occur. This is indeed one reason to use the lighter gear - and if it works for you - so be it!

If I created any confusion w/ what I said (Tony - Palmer's tackle and others!) - I didn't intend to do so. Great discussion!

[PALMERS TACKLE]

These are the topics that make boards like this so great..Lots of info from some really qualified folks and The pro's who do it every day and see it all..
Couldn't agree more on the difference between a drifting 75' or bigger head boat versus a charter in the 30' range totally different movement and drifting conditions.
I fish the A Bomb in cape may --he has a 28' center console with a hard top he drifts fast but we do fish as vertical as possible. It is hard sometimes to adjust from casting out and bouncing back--like we do in belmar--to the straight up and down fishing down south for me..i much prefer working the jig back.
Now for surfacing fluke so far from the boat i think your tail walking fluke and a slower retrieve may help keep the fish under the water. Then a steady constant pressure with the tip up, no pumping of the rod..god i can't tell you how many guys think they are bluefishing!!!and loose good fish to pumping. Each time they drop back the give the fish a chance to shake a hookset
Second__Great discussion thread!!

[snapperbluefish101]

I really disagree with the bumping up of the line rating--no offense.And don't use clips swivels or anything else. Line to line using your preferred choice knot is the best way. If you are using straight mono tie a dropper at the end and come up 15" for a second dropper loop attach jig or top hook to each dropper.
I fish mainly the Ocean Explorer and the BM in Belmar and i think Capt Bobby would agree he has the best fluke fisherman and the guys who put more meat in the box using lighter line and the lightest jig weight possible. I use 15-20# test period..
Even when fishing down off cape may in 90' of water and 8 oz. jigs i use 20 # and my hooKup rate is better than those using 30-50#
guicker sink rate, better jig twitch which entices the strike.
The key is to adjust the drag and line pull on the reel and watch the water and listen to and work with the mate. Most good mates will tell you when to lift and when to direct the fish into the net rather than just stabbing at the fish..although i have seen both. Mates on the OE will drop the net into the water and have you bring fish into net while they scoop it ..The best way
Also if your standing back too far and can't see fish adjust your leader length
(assuming You are using a mono shock leader and braid setup) mono length around 3' will help
Just a humble opinion and a way that works well for me.
Hope i helped
Tony

I was wondering, I have used 30lb braid and have caught plenty of fish buck tailing. Big fish as well. I have used 20lb as well and done well. I can't say there is much difference. Can you agree?

SNAPPERHEAD

[PALMERS TACKLE]

In braid i think the line diameter difference is not such a big deal, it's the 30 lb shock leader versus 20 lb shock leader you will see the difference. Both work don't get me wrong..i just have seen the lighter line work better over the last 5 yrs or so. There are so many differant ways to fish for any species none per se are wrong --some just seem to produce better than others. There are so many variables, tide, current, depth drift speed, etc. So nothing is set in stone as the only way . Adapting to what works each time out is the key.
The lighter line will also allow you to use a smaller weight bucktail
Sometimes the difference between using a 2 oz versus a 3 oz. jig can reallty increase you catch

[reason162]

If you have to wait a few seconds for the net, I have found that you should keep them moving forward in a lazy 8 pattern in front of you from side to side. So if you are bringing them in - dont stop when you reach the hull. Slowly turn them to one side and use the pole to move them round, out and back in in a wide radius.

This is winning advice.

You can fight the fish perfectly, constant pressure, steady reeling, but that pause when the fish is right under the surface can be a killer. You can completely lose pressure at that point, since you can't reel up anymore and the fish isn't exactly trying to head to bottom. You must keep that fish's head moving, or the headshakes/backward swimming commences (followed by cursing, foot stomping, and sometimes tears).

-roger

[arat]

invest in a trevalla S rod. light rod great for bucktailing with loads of power you can move that fish anywhere you want him. best advice i can give one trevalla S for light bucktails one for heavier jigs.
tight lines
arat