Sea Bass Update 3/5/13

[Angler Paul]

I thought I would start this new thread because the sea bass situation is being discussed in other threads and is mixed in with the fluke so it becomes confusing. Here is the latest I have but we might get an update from the NJBMF at the council meeting on Thursday.

The sea bass regs are still up in the air. The options will probably not be ready for this Thursday's meeting as originally anticipated. This is due in part to the recent 1/2 million lb. increase that was approved by the ASMFC for the recreational sector less than two weeks ago. We were looking at a 42-53% reduction but now it will be a 32% reduction. That will cause us to have a greatly reduced season unless the size limit is raised to 13". My best gues is that there will be a mid season closure either way. It will be much shorter if we raise the size limit though. Most of the advisors and council members seem to support the mid-season closure so that it can re-open and we will be able to fish for sea bass after fluke season closes

[SaltLife1980]

Why is there going to be a 32% reduction..? Does not make sense.. We already took a cut on limit and the season.. So how come they are making more cuts when we bearly have a season to begin with.. Something is not right there.. Maybe its time to find a new way to collect the data because the way they use now does not work...

[RnK]

Why don't they just open it 2-3 weeks later, and give us that time at the back end? protect the spawn. last year when they opened it May 25 (I think I recall the date), and for 3 more weeks, the females had not spawned. The fish we were catching from No. Jersey to Cape May were full of roe, bulging. And there consistently were limits up and down the NJ coast with a majority unspawned females.

Where are the marine biologists who supposed to know these things? This is basic stuff. No wonder the regulators get no respect.

[Jay]

Couldn't agree with you guys more! These guys that make these decisions probably never held a rod and reel in their life! :mad: I appreciate the information as usual.

[Angler Paul]

I fully agree with you guys. In my opinion the sea bass population has been exploding and because of that their range is increasing. This caused an excessive overage of the total allowable catch along the mid-atlantic coast which has resulted in New Jersey and the states north of us having to take a signifcant reduction. In reality the problem is not that there are not enough sea bass out there but rather that the total allowable catch that is set by the MAMFC is far too low.

[Angler Paul]

To answer RNK's question I too would much rather see a later start so that I would not have to throw back all the big sea bass I catch while fluking in the summer. However, the party and charter boat industry usually lobbies for an early start as the fluke are not biting to well in May and June.

[CaptTB]

One reason some people (it is not just the partyboats mind you) don't want a later start could be:

A later start gives you less savings. You need to close far more days in the early part of the year to achieve the same reduction as closing fewer days later. The majority of landings do not come in May and June, therefore when you give up May and/or June days you get less value for them then days from summer and fall when more Sea Bass are caught, primarily due to more people fishing overall.

It is like bag limit in some fisheries. When you drop from 20 fish to 10, people think "Hey, we took a 50% reduction!"

However, since the vast majority of anglers rarely catch 10 (making this up for an example, not saying these numbers apply to sea bass) when you drop from 20 to 10 you really gave up almost nothing. You gave up fish that are almost never caught, therefore it does next to nothing in reducing your landings the following year.

Same goes with season. Giving up days from a time of year where a small percentage of the fish are caught does not yield as much reduction as giving up days from a time when most of the fish are caught.

610 fish caught in May and June = an average of 10 fish per day.

6100 fish caught in September and October = an average of 100 fish a day.

A day in May does not have the same reduction value that a day in September does.

This is but one reason people have fought in the past to not lose a month to save a week or two.

[tautog]

Plus mid May to mid June is some of the best inshore fishing of the year. Usually plenty of keepers, many of which are 15"-17". No blackfish or porgies can be kept. Keeps some pressure off the ling.

[GDubya07]

What I have learned about reductions and the government - Why do they do it ? because they can adn somebody got paid , it doesnt have to make sense they make the rules as they go along - It Sucks

Using science and intelligence - NOT

Salt I agree a 32% reduction when the population is clearly rebuilt - I dont think so

Somebody is getting paid somewhere for this / lobbyist

G-

[Blackfish Doug]

Most of the advisors and council members seem to support the mid-season closure so that it can re-open and we will be able to fish for sea bass after fluke season closes[/QUOTE]

Remember last year we closed mid-season & it never got reopened because Mass. filled the quota:mad: . If it filled last years quota what makes you think it wont fill this years quota again being ther's less fish allowable:confused: These states were open while we were closed just watching them fill the quota we had no fall season:mad: . As long as NJ is counted in with the northern region we will never see a fall season again.

[Angler Paul]

Doug, you are mistaken. There was talk of closing the season but it never happened. Here are last year's sea bass seasons for New Jersey.

Open season: May 19 - Sept.3
Sept.23 - Oct.14
Nov.1 - Dec.31

We closed for 19 days (9/4-9/22) so that we would have something to fish for after fluke season ended on 9/28. We chose to close from 10/15 - 10/31 because federal waters are closed then. There were some who wanted to give up November and December so that we could have more days during the earlier part of the season. As Tony previoulsy explained far less fish are caught at certain times of the year. If we gave up all of October and November we would have only gained 5 or 6 days to use during September.

[Blackfish Doug]

Your really confusing me now we were closed last year from Nov.1-Dec 31 it was not talk it happened. We never opened last year because Mass over fished it's quota & we had a emergency closing. That's what I'm talking about Add the 19 days to the Nov.1- Dec. 31 closure & that's how many more days we lost last year.

[Blackfish Doug]

A post from last year remember this & this is what I'm talking about. Go for that fall season & see if this does happen again. I'm all for the fall season it makes sense but the NMFS will come out with this again & you can count on it like death & tax's.

Here is the official notice from NMFS:

Effective Date: November 1, 2012
The 2012 black sea bass recreational harvest limit has been reached. Effective 0001 hours,
November 1, 2012, no one may fish for or possess black sea bass in Federal waters for the
remainder of the 2012 calendar year, unless issued a commercial moratorium permit and fishing
commercially. This closure also applies to vessels issued a Federal party/charter permit fishing
in state waters.

[Angler Paul]

Doug, I suppose we are both partially correct and it is confusing. I was referring to the sea bass season set by our NJMFC which is for state waters. You are correct in what you said about the season being shut down in federal waters. State waters remained open for sea bass during the seasons I had mentioned. State waters were also closed to party and charter boats who had been issued a federal charter/party boat permit. This year the federal regualtions are supposed to be as follows:
20 fish bag limit at 12.5" with a seasons of January 1 through February 28, May 19 through October 14, and November 1 through December 31.
Our state has to reduce it's catch by 32% so our regulations will have to be much more stringent than those. However, the NJMFC needs to develop regulations that will allow us to fish for sea bass during the times federal waters are open. This way we can fish in federal or state waters for sea bass during the same time. For instance if we choose to have our state waters open between 10/15 and 10/31 we won't be able to keep any sea bass from outside the 3 mile limit. Also those with a federal charter/party boat permit won't even be able to fish for them in state waters. Yes, we got screwed by the federal shut down last year and it could happen again. Still the NJMFC has to develop the best regulations they can based on the information they have at the time.
Lastly at the NJMFC meeting tonight they informed us that they are still working on options for this year. The regulations are now expected to be set at their meeting on 5/2.

[SaltLife1980]

I just hope we have a season! Lots of fun catching sea bass!!

[Blackfish Doug]

Until we have state by state quotas it makes sense for us to have the same opening & closing dates as Mass & NY & CT. It makes no sense at all for us to be closed while Mass & NY & Ct. reap benefits from our closure. Those states are opened while we are closed & it counts against the Quota & we get screwed. Trust me we will never see the Sea Bass opening on Nov.1 not the way this is set up.

[Angler Paul]

Persoanally, I would not mind doing that. Below are the Mass regs. for sea bass last year. I certlainly like the season length but most people in NJ would go crazy if we suggested rasing the size limit from 12 1/2" to 14 " and reducing the bag limit as well

May 11 - June 24 - 14" - 10 fish
June 25 - October 31 - 14 " - 20 fish

[italianfisherman]

Until we have state by state quotas it makes sense for us to have the same opening & closing dates as Mass & NY & CT. It makes no sense at all for us to be closed while Mass & NY & Ct. reap benefits from our closure. Those states are opened while we are closed & it counts against the Quota & we get screwed. Trust me we will never see the Sea Bass opening on Nov.1 not the way this is set up.
AGREE..

[RnK]

Persoanally, I would not mind doing that. Below are the Mass regs. for sea bass last year. I certlainly like the season length but most people in NJ would go crazy if we suggested rasing the size limit from 12 1/2" to 14 " and reducing the bag limit as well

May 11 - June 24 - 14" - 10 fish
June 25 - October 31 - 14 " - 20 fish

With a 14" limit, probably 80-90% of what are keepers now would have to be thrown back, and 10 fish limits at 14" would be rare.

[joeya78]

Why don't they just open it 2-3 weeks later, and give us that time at the back end? protect the spawn. last year when they opened it May 25 (I think I recall the date), and for 3 more weeks, the females had not spawned. The fish we were catching from No. Jersey to Cape May were full of roe, bulging. And there consistently were limits up and down the NJ coast with a majority unspawned females.

Where are the marine biologists who supposed to know these things? This is basic stuff. No wonder the regulators get no respect.
Amen!