Big Jamaica fiasco

[Gerry Zagorski]

The initial post was taken down because it was turning into a circus.

TD feel free to assert your concerns here again on this post and Tony, feel free to address them as well.

All others, if you weren't there then let the people who were sort this out.

[Capt Joe]

Was a circus when it started, Gerry, shouldnt have taken 18 hours to be taken down!

[jwstand]

Was a circus when it started, Gerry, shouldnt have taken 18 hours to be taken down!


Could not disgree more. Censor the A$$hole$ not the information. I am a big J2 fan, but this forum is to provide information to the fishing community that utilizes it and supports, hopefully, the sponsors. Agree or disagree postitive and negative reports apply. If people take it to an inappropriate level censor them, do not enforce the penalty to everyone else who may actually gather what they deem to be valuable information from a forum post.

Capt Joe - you are well spoken and outspoken. Take the opportunity to set the record straight about the post and those on the site who value the honest input of the capt. will know what rings the truest.

Removal of the post only enforces the notion that negative posts will be pulled if it affects someone in the "club". Not implying, in any way, that to be true, but the perception is difficult to overide, as perception is reality to many.

[Joey Dah Fish]

I will say one last thing being a business owner myself. You can't please all the people all of the time. But it seems to me with a packed boat they are pleasing most of the people most of the time. That's good business and he won't lose my fare for one post.

[CaptTB]

Could not disgree more. Censor the A$$hole$ not the information. I am a big J2 fan, but this forum is to provide information to the fishing community that utilizes it and supports, hopefully, the sponsors. Agree or disagree postitive and negative reports apply. If people take it to an inappropriate level censor them, do not enforce the penalty to everyone else who may actually gather what they deem to be valuable information from a forum post.

Capt Joe - you are well spoken and outspoken. Take the opportunity to set the record straight about the post and those on the site who value the honest input of the capt. will know what rings the truest.

Removal of the post only enforces the notion that negative posts will be pulled if it affects someone in the "club". Not implying, in any way, that to be true, but the perception is difficult to overide, as perception is reality to many.Were I or someone else from the boat able to reply early on I would agree (and have never shied away from posting my own opinions for sure!) but this was a flat out lie from minute one. Not 60 people on board, not 58 people, NOT EVEN A FULL TRIP OF 55!! (let alone "closer to 100" like was LIED about in the original thread) Only FIFTY people on a FIFTY FIVE PERSON TRIP and this guy just keeps on lying and the haters pile on throughout the thread. The best thing was take it down. If I had been around today I could have nipped this in the bud much earlier (could have called Howard on the single side-band early today like I did and asked for the count but did not know this thread existed)

The truth is now known and there are people on board who post here that can confirm that there were only FIFTY people on the boat. This was a joke with wild assumptions, people jumping on a topic (which would be fine if it were true) without actually knowing what was going on.

Thank you Gerry for doing the right thing and allowing us to start from a position of FACT and not unfounded accusations that prove to be 100% FALSE.

[TDaly25]

Wow,

Gerry just posts that we should continue the discussion here and now my post gets pulled?

Money talks.

Good thing the thread only had 4,000 views so no one will know what goes on lol ;)

[PaBeerGuy]

TD feel free to assert your concerns here again on this post and Tony, feel free to address them as well.

Gerry, you invited TD to respond, he did, then you ripped it down. wtf?:confused: I was looking forward to this getting settled.

[jwstand]

Wow,

Gerry just posts that we should continue the discussion here and now my post gets pulled?

Money talks.

Good thing the thread only had 4,000 views so no one will know what goes on lol ;)


My second point played out here. Do not know the full drama, I gave up on the post early this morning, but the perspective of those who read now is tainted.

Capt Joe - perfectly stated... BS is BS those who read the Capt's post can not make a judgement. I for one have my faith in the owner and his crew, no benefit to lying about it...too easy to get called out. Thanks for the info, I for one appreciate it.... The truth is always the truth and F*(* the idiots who choose to blur reality with only partial facts. The fact he never bothered to communicate with the crew is his perogative, to not do so and express and opinion jaded with half truths is a totally different critter!

Thanks for all you do Capt. Joe!

[TDaly25]

Gee I was just stating how surprised I was that there was a headcount that showed such a small number of fisherman on the trip.

I guess if there is any testimony from any truly independent fares stating how comfortable they were on the trip and how much room they all had that will be a big surprise too.

Who knows, maybe another complete stranger will express surprise at how few people there were on board for such a beautiful day. Cant see that coming either.

It's ok, there is such a thing as Karma and I'm a firm believer that everyone and everything eventually gets what's coming to them.

The whole thing would actually be funny if it didn't involve people being pis*d on and then being told it was raining.

Let's see how long this takes to be pulled

[Gerry Zagorski]

The truth talks TD.... Are you still asserting there were " closer to 100 people on board". If so then either you can't count or you are accusing Tony Bogan of lying. Pick one and state your case with facts.

As far as people smoking in the cabin including the crew, if this was the case, I would assume Howard and Tony want to know about this sort of stuff and address it.

Let's stick to the facts here.

[Gerry Zagorski]

TD feel free to assert your concerns here again on this post and Tony, feel free to address them as well.

Gerry, you invited TD to respond, he did, then you ripped it down. wtf?:confused: I was looking forward to this getting settled.

Just trying to get this resolved with facts PA, not emotions.

[SaltLife1980]

Lots of crying going on here.. Some boats its ok to smoke in the cabin.. so whats the big deal.. as far as amount of people.. Im sure they did not over crowd the boat.. im sure every person had 10 rods and 5 coolers.. thats how it goes.. so ill bet it looked like a 100 people..

[blkbear]

If Tony stated 50 then I believe him 100%. I know Tony and he will not BS
I have been hoping he would reply and get out the true facts on the count.
That was why I said call and ask when you book,and they will give you all the info to plan your trip.
And I find it nice that they where not even taking deposits and trusting the customer to show up.

[CaptTB]

Gee I was just stating how surprised I was that there was a headcount that showed such a small number of fisherman on the trip. Why? It snowed up to 30 inches in some places in NY on Saturday. CT transportation was shut down. Many of our customers could not switch to Sunday from Fri and Sat trips being sold out. So now you think you know how our business goes and when there should or should not be a certain number of people on board? You sir posted a false statement. I showed you copies of the reservation book. Notice the last page stops at 42? You KNOW when you booked and you were only number 37.

If the trip had been full and they screwed up the count and there were a couple extras on board (we have made mistakes at the office and put someone down for the 18th when they wanted to leave the 18th and fish the 19th...example dates) then I would post it. But the FACT remains that YOU came up with some wild ass claim that was COMPLETELY FALSE. 50 passengers and you could not even count them.

It's ok, there is such a thing as Karma and I'm a firm believer that everyone and everything eventually gets what's coming to them. Damn straight. Now we know you were not just off with your estimates, we know you posted false information, plain and simple. I have no problems taking the offensive now that I know you were not being honest. I call it like I see it. You want to try and post false claims about my business? Then I will call you out for type of person you are sir.

The whole thing would actually be funny if it didn't involve people being pis*d on and then being told it was raining. Except you were the one doing the pissing and now the truth is out. Thank god I won't have to deal with any more false statements about our business from the likes of you since you already posted you won't be back. Not that I'd let you on one of our boats anyway.

Have a complaint so be it. Post false information on the internet about a business and it is a different story.

[TDaly25]

Gerry, here are a few facts for you:

Fact: I never stated that I counted 100 people, I guessed that there were “closer to 100 than to 55”, which statistically means 78 or more. Again, I didn’t count. Could I have been mistaken by some degree? Sure, it’s possible, I told you I didn’t count.

Fact: I also stated that there were people, including crew, that were smoking in the cabin. For this I was dismissed as a liar. Tony didn’t suggest he would look into it – you did, though, in your defense of him – he accused me of being a liar.

Fact: I did not call the Captain a liar, he did the name calling. I showed offense at his eager reflex to dismiss and disparage me rather than consider the possibility that a paying fare might have a legitimate gripe.

Fact: There were other posters that also made valid points about excessive amounts of gear that was brought on board and number of coolers, etc. This, too, could have contributed to the feeling of being overloaded. I will be the first to admit my own fallibility.

Fact: I made a calm and reasoned post last night stating my disappointment with my experience and I explicitly stated what it was that I was disappointed in. I made no personal attacks and acknowledged that I expected the captain to comment on my post when he returned and that I was confident that his response would be reasonable and commensurate with furthering the long-term success of his business.

Fact: The Captain came on this board and immediately sought to discredit me and my experience by calling me a liar.

Fact: I am in a service business and have a certain standard by which I do business. My reputation in my industry is all I have and there is nothing more important to me than to do what I can to keep my clients happy. I have found the Captain’s arrogance, indifference and inability to accept any reasonable criticism or blame here is offensive.

Fact: The BJ clearly has a terrific and devoted following that will continue long after this thread is forgotten. Having said that, I would tell the good Captain that based on commentary I’ve received from MANY SOURCES that my experience, as isolated as it may seem, is not unique and he would do himself and his business a favor by paying a bit more attention to some of the issues that have been raised on this and related threads.

Fact: I have fished A LOT of your sponsor boats and just about all of the crews who know me are happy to have me come aboard. I fish hard, tip well and require little to no attention. I have never had an agenda with anyone other than to have a good, comfortable, safe and law-abiding experience.

[CaptTB]

Gerry, here are a few facts for you:

Fact: I never stated that I counted 100 people, I guessed that there were “closer to 100 than to 55”, which statistically means 78 or more. Again, I didn’t count. Could I have been mistaken by some degree? Sure, it’s possible, I told you I didn’t count.

And yet you claim that there were at least over 50% more people on the boat than a normal full trip. (your 78....statistically speaking of course:rolleyes:


Fact: I also stated that there were people, including crew, that were smoking in the cabin. For this I was dismissed as a liar. Tony didn’t suggest he would look into it – you did, though, in your defense of him – he accused me of being a liar. Wrong again, I most certainly did say I would loomk into it but that i did not initially comment on it since I was not there to see it myself. After your initial comment that was totally false (the number of people) I wanted to make sure I did not make any false statements like you did.

Fact: I did not call the Captain a liar, he did the name calling. I showed offense at his eager reflex to dismiss and disparage me rather than consider the possibility that a paying fare might have a legitimate gripe. Of course you did not call me a liar, I did not lie. You did. And since there was NO WAY that there was even remotely close to 100, 90, 80, 70 or 60 people on board why would I think your complaint was anything other than what it obviously was? A total fabrication.

Fact: There were other posters that also made valid points about excessive amounts of gear that was brought on board and number of coolers, etc. This, too, could have contributed to the feeling of being overloaded. I will be the first to admit my own fallibility. Interesting you waited till 4000 views and dozens of comments and several threads before you decide to "admit your own falibility" and yet your posts right in this thread show you still stand behind your false claims of passenger count...... your "admission" is a joke sir.

Fact: The Captain came on this board and immediately sought to discredit me and my experience by calling me a liar. FACT: you lied about the number of people on board. More to your line of talking (now, after the fact of course) you exaggerated by a factor of nearly 100%:rolleyes:

Fact: I am in a service business and have a certain standard by which I do business. My reputation in my industry is all I have and there is nothing more important to me than to do what I can to keep my clients happy. I have found the Captain’s arrogance, indifference and inability to accept any reasonable criticism or blame here is offensive. Reasonable criticism? You claim there are nearly twice as many people on a boat than there actually was and you call that reasonable? Please, keep continuing to make my point for me. Continue your posts again and again, it only proves you were posting false information since you continue to do so.

Have a nice day.

[Lou]

Tom, don't waste your breath. You're never gonna win an online war with the almighty capttb. I know you, your a good friend, I do the majority of my fishing with you and I know when you have a genuine gripe with somebody that something was obviously wrong because you are not the kind of guy to just flat out lie and bash somebody's business. Seems like capttb cant deal with a little criticism. O well tommy boy, plenty of other boats to fish on and not have to deal with bs.

[Jay]

Gerry, you'll be up all night! They both said what they had to say. END! Life goes on! Just saying....:D

[bigjamaica]

I returned home a little while ago. My only comment on this issue. Mr. Daly sent me an email, a private message, voice mail , and I even spoke with him prior to the trip. I went to the boat early last night, left and returned about 45 minutes prior to departure. He was not present when I was there.
He says he is in a service business but, did not make any attempt to speak with me about his issues last night, prior to his internet report (which I did not see). I checked our answering machines, emails, private messages, there was nothing.
If I have a problem with any business I patronize, I usually speak with the boss, manager, or whoever is in charge. If I am not satisfied with their response than I do not patronize them any longer. He did not give me that chance.

I did not have my computer on the boat today so I will post a full report tomorrow.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Closing this thread so we don't need to monitor it all night and will open it back up in the AM.

[Islander II]

I think a lesson has been learned here. Don't post anything negative about a business on the Internet if you don't have the facts. It would have been a good idea to contact the business owner and talk to them privately about your complaint first, before posting your complaint. Technically this was a defamation of character. :mad:

[shrimpman steve]

obviously the offending post was removed. what were the facts? were there more than the limited 55 on board?

[shrimpman steve]

never mind. I see they left the dock with 50. within the 55 limit.

the truth shall set you free!

[Harpoon]

I think a lesson has been learned here. Don't post anything negative about a business on the Internet if you don't have the facts. It would have been a good idea to contact the business owner and talk to them privately about your complaint first, before posting your complaint. Technically this was a defamation of character. :mad:

Wow...a lawyer and a moderator!

[seazu]

What I Want To Know Is What The Big Deal Is About One Persons Personal Gripe? You Say You Have 100's Of Customers Capt So Whats The Big Deal About 1 Complaint,. Im Sure You Wount Loose Your Loyal Follower's Over It.

Ever Time There Is A Post That Ends Up In A Huge Controversy And Has To Be Taken Down, And Jerry Feels He Needs To Defend And Protect Them, It Has Something To Do With The Bogan's ???????????
Wow Effin Cares, It' Redicules.
And Do Not Say It's Not True, This Is The 3rd One That I Know About.

[Capt. Debbie]

Capt Tom's response should have been put at the top of the thread.

Problem is who ever shouts the loudest, sometimes is believed for only that reason.

I'm not a big fan of censoring, but a person can spend all day responding to crack pots and know-nothings (who weren't even there) adding to it. But that's the nature of a blog. The more people involved the more diverse and sometimes wrong it gets.

Gerry can't pick through each message in a thread to determine if wildly exagerated, flat out lies, or honest truth. Or just clean house- GONE!

JUST REMEMBER- don't believe everything you read.

The Internet is full of phonies, posseurs, whackos, and liars mixed in with the "normal" ones.








Were I or someone else from the boat able to reply early on I would agree (and have never shied away from posting my own opinions for sure!) but this was a flat out lie from minute one. Not 60 people on board, not 58 people, NOT EVEN A FULL TRIP OF 55!! (let alone "closer to 100" like was LIED about in the original thread) Only FIFTY people on a FIFTY FIVE PERSON TRIP and this guy just keeps on lying and the haters pile on throughout the thread. The best thing was take it down. If I had been around today I could have nipped this in the bud much earlier (could have called Howard on the single side-band early today like I did and asked for the count but did not know this thread existed)

The truth is now known and there are people on board who post here that can confirm that there were only FIFTY people on the boat. This was a joke with wild assumptions, people jumping on a topic (which would be fine if it were true) without actually knowing what was going on.

Thank you Gerry for doing the right thing and allowing us to start from a position of FACT and not unfounded accusations that prove to be 100% FALSE.

[Capt. Debbie]

100% CORRECT.

And now the reputation of the complainer (and all his future posts) are now in question.




What I Want To Know Is What The Big Deal Is About One Persons Personal Gripe? You Say You Have 100's Of Customers Capt So Whats The Big Deal About 1 Complaint,. Im Sure You Wount Loose Your Loyal Follower's Over It.

Ever Time There Is A Post That Ends Up In A Huge Controversy And Has To Be Taken Down, And Jerry Feels He Needs To Defend And Protect Them, It Has Something To Do With The Bogan's ???????????
Wow Effin Cares, It' Redicules.
And Do Not Say It's Not True, This Is The 3rd One That I Know About.

[bigjamaica]

Capt Tom's response should have been put at the top of the thread.

Problem is who ever shouts the loudest, sometimes is believed for only that reason.

I'm not a big fan of censoring, but a person can spend all day responding to crack pots and know-nothings (who weren't even there) adding to it. But that's the nature of a blog. The more people involved the more diverse and sometimes wrong it gets.

Gerry can't pick through each message in a thread to determine if wildly exagerated, flat out lies, or honest truth. Or just clean house- GONE!

JUST REMEMBER- don't believe everything you read.

The Internet is full of phonies, posseurs, whackos, and liars mixed in with the "normal" ones.

Capt. Frank:
In my previous post I said that was all I had to say but, when I returned home last night my son asked me if I saw the post on here.
I did not, because it was already taken down. He asked me how many people I "really" had on the boat (he should know better).
I asked him how many do you think I had? He answered, "well, when I read the thread, I thought because the other boat canceled, all of his people showed up and you took them giving you 72 people".
I told him no, only one passenger from the other boat came out with us and we didn't have 100 people, or even 72. We do not take that many (although I would like to).
Sometimes it's just like that commercial on TV where people believe if it's on the internet it has to be true. "That really is a French model you are talking to".
I always try to do my best for our customers, and they know it. I do not consider satying out later, or going a little further to catch fish, "going the extra mile" but something I owe them. If there is a problem (there are not very many) They should talk to me. If they are not satisfied with my response, then vote the way most americans do, with their pocket book.
Don't go crying on the internet until you at least give the person in charge a chance to address your issue.

[TDaly25]

100% CORRECT.

And now the reputation of the complainer (and all his future posts) are now in question.

Captain Frank, please feel free to question whatever and whoever you like. I don't post here for purposes of obtaining anyone's approval or satisfaction.

I've spoken my peace on the situation and have said all I feel the need to say. It really is not possible for me to care less what you or anyone else who has commented here thinks of me - it simply has no impact on my life. Those people that do know me know "where I come from" and know what they can expect from what I say.

Tight lines to you and have a good day.

[RnK]

...
I always try to do my best for our customers, and they know it. I do not consider satying out later, or going a little further to catch fish, "going the extra mile" but something I owe them. If there is a problem (there are not very many) They should talk to me. If they are not satisfied with my response, then vote the way most americans do, with their pocket book.
Don't go crying on the internet until you at least give the person in charge a chance to address your issue.

I/we do a lot of fishing, 6 packs and PBs. I once had a concern on the BJ and got in touch with Capt Howard who addressed it and expressed gratitude that I called it to his attention, which he was unaware. That is the way issues should be handled by customers and owners of any business.

The Big J, of all the other PBs I fish, by far gets the most of my money, because of great service of their well trained crew, the dedication and knowledge of Capt Howard and the speed and room of the Big J.

That will remain the case in 2013, as all that adds up to great value and a very good fishing experience.

Russ

[Jay]

What I Want To Know Is What The Big Deal Is About One Persons Personal Gripe? You Say You Have 100's Of Customers Capt So Whats The Big Deal About 1 Complaint,. Im Sure You Wount Loose Your Loyal Follower's Over It.

Ever Time There Is A Post That Ends Up In A Huge Controversy And Has To Be Taken Down, And Jerry Feels He Needs To Defend And Protect Them, It Has Something To Do With The Bogan's ???????????
Wow Effin Cares, It' Redicules.
And Do Not Say It's Not True, This Is The 3rd One That I Know About.


Well said! My same sentiments. Life goes on....

[AviD]

Hard to believe TDaly can go from this report in Best Of a week ago to however this all went down the other day. I can't comment on the accuracy of anyone's statements, but it's clear something changed and it had nothing to do with the trip outcome (since he didn't sail with the boat).

http://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56028&page=11

[TDaly25]

Hard to believe TDaly can go from this report in Best Of a week ago to however this all went down the other day. I can't comment on the accuracy of anyone's statements, but it's clear something changed and it had nothing to do with the trip outcome (since he didn't sail with the boat).

http://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56028&page=11

Avid, thanks for posting. What a difference a week makes

[broken bobber]

FACT : This thread iS A JOKE YET..... VERY ENTERTAINING :D

[jerseyhunter]

And now the reputation of the complainer (and all his future posts) are now in question.

Not by those who know him.

[Gerry Zagorski]

This post is now closed..... Way too much drama...

Funny how people want to cling to all the drama and when it starts to fade they want to stir it all up again and roll arounfd it some more.


Very tiring......... I got better things to do and hopefully so do all of you.