Looks Like Fluke Option 5 Passed

[jmurr711]

according to social media 5 fish at 17.5". May 5 to sept 28. looking forward to an early closure and getting royally screwed in 2013 and never ever getting those fish back. yay!!!!!!!:mad:

[njfisherman1975]

Guys in the bay will love it...but I smell an early closure too...2013 is not going to he pretty...

[Reelron]

FIve it is. I just got home from the meeting a short time ago. Actually it seemed the committee was in favor of option 2 at the start of the public comment period. The comments ran pretty close between option 2 & option 5 with maybe 2 or 3 more infavor of 5. I would say those that spoke for option 5 seemed a bit more eloquent and persuasive and I guess that swung the thinking. Maybe a few more in attendance would have swung it the other way.

As I always say, it would be nice to see these meeting packed.

I think LAB took better notes than me so maybe he will add to this?

[Gerry Zagorski]

LAB just texted me from the meeting to say that option 5 passed, which if I have my facts straight, is 5 fish at 17.5 inches from May 5th - Sept 28th. In terms of our pole that ranked 2nd.

I will let Mike "eLABorate" but he said the "for hire" and "southern guys" were in favor of option 5 and the Board reccomendation went from 2 to 5 after hearing public opinions.

[broken bobber]

Sux

[broken bobber]

according to social media 5 fish at 17.5". May 5 to sept 28. looking forward to an early closure and getting royally screwed in 2013 and never ever getting those fish back. yay!!!!!!!:mad:

BOHICA

[Irish Jigger]

Sux is right. Be striper fishing by mid July.

[Sharkyispy]

WTF? Very few in favor initially...southern boys influenced this? Seriously? A shorter season for a half inch......I'll be throwing back the 17 1/2ers for the bigger fish.....F 5 :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[fin_s_guy]

Sucks ballz!

With the invention of the intertube, how about a saltwater register with your licence and an online vote on fishing regs?! Working 12 hours a day make it tough to get to meetings.

[bigjamaica]

This "for hire" guy voted for #2.

[LongBallLarry]

That sucks...

[Foul Hook]

I would like to see the party boat Capts. weigh in on the "new rules", smaller size, less bag, earlier end to season (here). Personally I was OK with the 18" number, I just think that we may be heading towards an "overfishing" call. Just my 2 pennies

[SaltyAngler]

That is just plain sad.

[JerseyHooker.Com]

Bsssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[bigjamaica]

BOHICA
I had to google that one. You are right. I voted for #2. I would have been "a bit more eloquent" if I actually spent more time fishing for fluke.
I thought there would be a few more "for hire" guys there that would vote for #2.

[DMac]

Kiss those fish goodbye forever. After we overfish this yeah by their calculations it will be back to 18 if not 18.5 at five fish or less for 2013 season.

[Life's A Beach]

I had to google that one. You are right. I voted for #2. I would have been "a bit more eloquent" if I actually spent more time fishing for fluke.
I thought there would be a few more "for hire" guys there that would vote for #2.


I thought THE swaying argument WAS delivered, quite eloquently by a "for hire" charter boat captain?

The southern fishermen wanted the smaller size and spoke (and clapped) to that end.

I just went up, told them I came with info from njfishing.com and gave them the numbers. I also expressed that the For Hire votes seemed to lean more towards 5 while the private fishermen leaned more towards 2.

Like I was told after the meeting "NOW they'll complain that all they are catching is 17" fish" and I tend to agree.

[Life's A Beach]

This "for hire" guy voted for #2.


Yes you did Howard. And Dave A spoke passionately about liking a smaller size BUT why he didn't think it was the right option.


I thought THE swaying argument WAS delivered, quite eloquently by a "for hire" charter boat captain?

The southern fishermen wanted the smaller size and spoke (and clapped) to that end.

I just went up, told them I came with info from njfishing.com and gave them the numbers. I also expressed that the For Hire votes seemed to lean more towards 5 while the private fishermen leaned more towards 2.

Like I was told after the meeting "NOW they'll complain that all they are catching is 17" fish" and I tend to agree.

[BigBassJim]

I'm fired up now I'll limit on every yak trip in the river lol.

[bigjamaica]

Like I was told after the meeting "NOW they'll complain that all they are catching is 17" fish" and I tend to agree.[/QUOTE]

That is the same thing my son said when we got home.

[Sharkyispy]

Kiss those fish goodbye forever. After we overfish this yeah by their calculations it will be back to 18 if not 18.5 at five fish or less for 2013 season.


Dennis, you are Soooooooooo right with this. Willing to bet the house in Vegas on the outcome. What an F'in set up to say that next year we overfished the species and killed the population with our rods and reels so they increase the limits?????. Yeaaaahhh OK.

[Reelron]

And all based on Admittedly BAD Science. You can sit here and complain about it till the cows come home. Or, you can get on the bus.

[Loudsprtfsh1]

Kill Em All!!!!!!!!!

[Leif]

Great, we can keep less and they are smaller and the season is shorter??

That makes sense.

Leif

[Rich Pfish]

I can see the PB and 6 pack reports already.

"Come on down, limits all around the boat, over 200 keepers landed today. The bucktailers in the bow limited out in the first hour. We were back at the dock early."

What B.S.

[Angler Paul]

I feel like we were beaten up in our own back yard. The council did in fact initially favor option 2 and it was even highlighted as their favored option. However, the majority of those present favored option 5 and it swayed the council. There were more tackle store, party and charter boat representatives there from south jersey than from central and northern NJ. Most but mot all favored the smaller size limit. I know for a fact that many of the stores, and captains in our area favored the longer season but unfortunately they did not show up at the meeting. The council vote was 5-3 with the chairman abstaining once there was a majority. I am certain that with just a little more support for the longer season that the outcome would have been different. Lets all remember that for next year.

[Dave A]

So let me get this straight...nobody seems to have wanted option 5 but except for a few of us, nobody thought it was important enough to take off time and go to the meeting. A few more in favor of 18" and the longer season would have made the difference. And while I'm at it, SHAME on all of my fellow industry members that did not go. For those who don't know, I have a "non-sponsor" tackle shop in Brielle. Where were all the other tackle shop owners, sponsors and non-sponsors? From what I saw, there were 2 other non-sponsor tackle shops represented. Also, there were only 3 pb captains from between Atlantic Highlands and Barnegat Light and 2 of them don't even fluke fish. Where were the rest of you? I am sick and tired of attending meetings and then listening to or reading gripes and complaints from all of you that never take the time to try and make a difference.

[Ryan W]

I can see why people are mad, but I think we should see what happens before we start assuming these doomsday scenarios. This may not be as bad as some think it is.

I will point out once again that all of the "never gonna see those fish again" people are usually the same people that said "never gonna see a lower size again" and "never gonna see more days again." We had our choice among those 3 options this year, we might very well again next year. If this really is so horrible, we can re-evaluate next year once given our options. I won't venture a guess as to what those options are.


And if anyone would like to:

Please READ this post, then if you want:

Ryan E. Wood

PM me for anything at all, I would rather not post my email, I get too many "Free viagra" ads as is, and despite what Kirk might tell you, I don't need free viagra.

[dfish28]

I feel that the choice is both F.U.B.A.R. and served up with a side of bookaki!

[CaptTB]

So let me get this straight...nobody seems to have wanted option 5 but except for a few of us, nobody thought it was important enough to take off time and go to the meeting. A few more in favor of 18" and the longer season would have made the difference. And while I'm at it, SHAME on all of my fellow industry members that did not go. For those who don't know, I have a "non-sponsor" tackle shop in Brielle. Where were all the other tackle shop owners, sponsors and non-sponsors? From what I saw, there were 2 other non-sponsor tackle shops represented. Also, there were only 3 pb captains from between Atlantic Highlands and Barnegat Light and 2 of them don't even fluke fish. Where were the rest of you? I am sick and tired of attending meetings and then listening to or reading gripes and complaints from all of you that never take the time to try and make a difference.
I feel your pain and frustration Dave.

As Dave said, 2 of the partyboat captains in attendance don't fluke fish but understand the ramifications of our choices to both that fishery and others. Coincidentally they were both related to me:D

Thanks Butchie, Howard and Jeff for going, especially my brother since I could not go and he went in my place(I was on the boat with the Coast Guard until after 4:00 today for our annual topside inspection)

Understanding that the average fisherman will not typically take off from work early to go to a fisheries meeting that does not change the fact that there were MANY of the fluke boat captains from up and down the NJ coast that were conspicuously absent.

I am sure they will be the first ones to bitch.

[Mike K]

We're going to catch so many fluke this year that in 2013 the size limit will be 28" and the season one day - July 4th.

(Lighten up guys)

[tautog]

PM me for anything at all, I would rather not post my email, I get too many "Free viagra" ads as is, and despite what Kirk might tell you, I don't need free viagra.

I agree actually, considering the circumstance it would be pointless.

[dfish28]

thats why you only keep 5#s and over

[team heat]

Does anybody know how this system works.Do they gather all the data after the season ends or do they monitor how many fish are being caught and or killed during the season.Seems to me if you are going to have a quota you shold keep track of the total catch in season and close it when the quota is met thereby eliminating overages.

[Falcon]

Last year no problem ....we have fish....All they do is take away....If anything should of kept the limit add a slot of 2 fish @ 17-17 1/2, keep some happy and not destroy the fishery...

Bobber is right....touch yous toes......and get ready :mad:

[reason162]

Terrible outcome. Is there an email address we can send our eloquent petitions to or is this final?

[Garone Custom Rods]

I am pissed!

[Life's A Beach]

njfishing.com
site has 5727 active registered members
108 million hits per year
36K unique visitors per month
~ 70 sponsors; party boat, charter boat and tackle shops
248 votes; NON hidden ballots
32% Option 5
37% Option 2
65% 18" fish agregate
Owner (Gerry) put up poll
Private boat VOTES favored #2
For Hire boat VOTES favored #5

From MY notes:

Blackfish
53% Reduction - Season as previously posted
ADMITTED "ERROR IN SCIENTIFIC NUMBERS USED FOR SETTING THIS SEASON"
'Looser restrictions MAY follow'

Sea Bass
57% Increase in our allotment
Season as previously posted; PROBABLY have Jan and Feb 2013
'cooperation between state and federal'

Fluke
38% Increase in our allotment
MRFS &/or 2011 NJ Volunteer Program used for recommendations; THE LATTER WAS USED

-2% towards our target for the past 11 years - (pretty good management in my opinion if the can get us that close over that long stretch)

SLOT FLUKE - A couple Board members wondered why this was taken off the menu; "Law Enforcement wouldn't be able to enforce it". C.O.s caught feelings when called on the carpet about their about-face on this option. They said that upon further review they wouldn't be able to enforce this so they would 'put it to the bottom of the list of laws to enforce and just not enforce it period'. C.O. stated the party boat industry as their primary reason for their change of heart (they told Board to lose this option). They said ONE person 'might catch ALL the 17.5" fish and distribute them around the boat'. They also said they would have to count the fares and dig through the racks and measure the 17.5" racks to see if there was only 1 slot fish per fare.

SPEAKERS (not all noted)
Bergen County Fish Club #5
JCAA #2
Berkeley Striper & Beach Bugger Asso #2
Fishermen's Den #2
Spring Lake Fishing Club #2
Jamaica #2
Reel Seat Bait #2
Voyager #2
Adam Nowalsky (Karen Ann II) #5
Cape May Charter Asso #3
Fran Verdi (Fish the Drop Off) #5

[Dave A]

Mike,
Brielle Bait was not there, I was and I spoke and favored option 2.

[Knot Guilty]

Congratulations to all who voted for a shorter season and giving back 3 fish.
Please hand out red noses to all who fish from your boats so we can see you
when you are throwing back 17.499999 fish and complaining, "we can't catch
a keeper". CLOWNS !

[frugalfisherman]

I personally was in favor of 2 but, 2010= 6 fish at 18. 2011 8 fish at 18 and a longer season. Just because it's 5 this year doesn't mean it stays that way as many are saying. I fish a lot mainly on the J2. Caught a lot of big fish but had a limit twice last year and it took me both the am and pm trips to do it once and the all day monday the other. Rarely did I see others limit out and if they did they were guys who fish all the time and had all the fluke they needed unless they were Dugger from 18 and Counting. We are loosing 2 1/2 weeks of seabass but it's a hell of a lot better than last year and jan/feb season is back. Look at your glasses. They are half full.

[Life's A Beach]

Mike,
Brielle Bait was not there, I was and I spoke and favored option 2.



HA HA HA

Sorry Dave

I'm so used to changing your loyal customer's posts to "non sponsor brielle shop".......it just happened

couple that with the time of the post and i'm sure u will 4 give me

[sportfishingusa]

Where should i send my money now? :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:



I am not the happiest with the results, but to be quite honest, i could give a hoot, i dont know what the uproar is, anyone who says they pay 50 bucks or pay 125 bucks to go fluke fishing for the day, is not going to tell me they fish for the meat to feed themselves, it is a chance, thats like playing the lottery and kicking a hole in your wall everytime you lose the power ball, its a chance you might catch a chance you wont catch.

What ever happened to fishing for fun, enjoying ourselves, enjoying time with one another? why has everything in this world turned into a donation, a political bs battle, everyone whining about one another? I personally have not, and will never say i fish to take home my fish, anyone who fishes with me knows i take no meat.

I fish because i enjoy it, i have a great time doing it, you never know what the next day will bring, they can close the fisheries down, i will still take my children fishing, i will put every fish back and i will go to the super market or fish market and purchase certain types of fish i want to eat and cook them at home.

I understand the business side, but the business is only going to be hurt by simple minded people.. What is keeping 3 less fluke going to do for your day? fluke prices at 12.99 a lb in the store, for the same price as a six pack open boat around here, you can go and buy 14 lbs of fluke, by the time you get done with fare and tip..

GET "REEL" guys, no one on here gives a hoot about going home with ton of meat, it is all about fishing and enjoying.

I say make it one fish at 36", then we will see everyone out there trying to catch a monster, and when you do catch one it will be a accomplishment..

These are limites and restriction, not them telling us we can not fish for them, they are RETENTION LIMITS, you can only retain so many fish at so many inches, but you can catch and release as many as you want!

The black seabass fishery closure is much more important to "for hire
" sector than this fluek bs will ever be.

[Jay]

Where should i send my money now? :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:



I am not the happiest with the results, but to be quite honest, i could give a hoot, i dont know what the uproar is, anyone who says they pay 50 bucks or pay 125 bucks to go fluke fishing for the day, is not going to tell me they fish for the meat to feed themselves, it is a chance, thats like playing the lottery and kicking a hole in your wall everytime you lose the power ball, its a chance you might catch a chance you wont catch.

What ever happened to fishing for fun, enjoying ourselves, enjoying time with one another? why has everything in this world turned into a donation, a political bs battle, everyone whining about one another? I personally have not, and will never say i fish to take home my fish, anyone who fishes with me knows i take no meat.

I fish because i enjoy it, i have a great time doing it, you never know what the next day will bring, they can close the fisheries down, i will still take my children fishing, i will put every fish back and i will go to the super market or fish market and purchase certain types of fish i want to eat and cook them at home.

I understand the business side, but the business is only going to be hurt by simple minded people.. What is keeping 3 less fluke going to do for your day? fluke prices at 12.99 a lb in the store, for the same price as a six pack open boat around here, you can go and buy 14 lbs of fluke, by the time you get done with fare and tip..

GET "REEL" guys, no one on here gives a hoot about going home with ton of meat, it is all about fishing and enjoying.

I say make it one fish at 36", then we will see everyone out there trying to catch a monster, and when you do catch one it will be a accomplishment..

These are limites and restriction, not them telling us we can not fish for them, they are RETENTION LIMITS, you can only retain so many fish at so many inches, but you can catch and release as many as you want!

The black seabass fishery closure is much more important to "for hire
" sector than this fluek bs will ever be.

Thank you! We'll said.

[JIMMY L]

Anyone else out there feel like a fool for joining RFA and SSSf? Never did i think they would have opposing views! Oh well,i guess i'll be able to buy more jigs with the money saved. Member SSSF,former member RFA.

[Gobigblue]

I fish on Party boats a lot for fluke. All I ever here from Patrons, Mates, Captains is, " What a nice fish, it's a shame you have to throw it back"!!! Now they lowered the size limit and I here people bithcing and moaning. Its to the point where I think people will bitch no matter what. People will be able to take more fish home, "oh man that sucks" They raised the limit to 18.5 inches, "Oh man that sucks" They kept the same limits, "Oh man that sucks". Here some advice I see on some Tee shirts SHUT UP AND FISH
Have a nice day!!!

[SaltyAngler]

Ya just can't fight city hall. I'm more worried about the gas prices going up now...ugh...

[broken bobber]

Anyone else out there feel like a fool for joining RFA and SSSf? Never did i think they would have opposing views! Oh well,i guess i'll be able to buy more jigs with the money saved. Member SSSF,former member RFA.

Bingo.... a lot of money went to the save the flounder organizations to prove the numbers wrong and get the fisherman an increase..... so ok we eventually went from 6-8 fish..... Now we go from 8-5... to me thats 2 steps forward...3 steps back... of coarse the board members are gonna love that and i am sure they were grinning when this was all done..... just makes me scratch my head when you have Capts going to website parties and get togethers to champion the SSSF cause with speaches and raffles, then goes and votes or shows favoritism to taking 3 steps backwards.... :confused:

dont get me wrong... my crew and i will DEF get our share as we always have but ....DEF confused on this outcome and some peoples views... I do think Falcoon was correct.... dont extend the season..keep the 8 fish limit.... add the 2 slot fish.... what a shame the Co's would have to actually have to work a little harder to write the tickets.....

[aruvio]

I dont know all the specifics but I can't see how it wouldn't help the party boats greatly. Esp those that are struggling since not being able to go sea bass fishing. People want to take fish home, as do I. If people are happy at the end of the day, they'll come back.

I'm not talking about the guys here that are going to go every wk or several times a wk anyway. I'm talking about the tourists/ or once every couple wks customers. Lots of empty coolers is what I remember and a whole lot of sad faces throwing back a ton of shorts.

For those that are going to go out often if you get your limit , start giving fish to others or save room for a money fish in your cooler, you're going again anyway!

8 fish was ridiculous anyway. If I catch that many this yr on one trip I'm going to keep them anyway, who am I kidding :).

[mako28]

It's very disturbing to me that a charter boat capt. and chairman of rfa is actually is voting for less size and bag limit. Do you realize that these laws that you voted for are the same that bought NY to it's knees? It's also disturbing that a charter boat captain voted to reduced size and bag limits, thats shows signs of weakness as far the captain of Karen Ann 2 goes. If you can't limit out with 8 fish at 18", you may think that at 17.5 and 5 fish a man, your chances will be easier. My opinion is if you had a 2 fish limit at 17", you still would have a problem limiting out. I'm just so disgusted as a fisherman of 40 years that there are captains out there in 2012 that actually will vote for a reduction in their catch. By any chance did you vote to have helicopters enforce the 3 mile limit when striper fishing? Next sea bass and tautog meeting I will attend to vote for a complete shut down of both, since you snj guys depend on that dearly and have destroyed fluke regs., we can both sell our boats and you and I can golf

[Ryan W]

This year I will conduct an experiment. Every fluke trip I work (not sure how many that will be) I will write down the number of 17.5-18 inch keepers I measure (Just me, not the other deckhands). I will also write down how many people deck 6 fish over 18 inches in one trip (or even two trips on the same day). After I am done working fluke for the year I will post up the numbers and we can all compare.

I invite other people to do the same thing. Keep track of how many trips each summer you catch more than 5 fluke over 18 inches versus how many times each summer you catch a 17.5 inch fish (catch and could keep, not release and cull because you're looking for that 15 lber) and how many times you realistically would have gone fluking in those 3 weeks that the season would have been open under option 2. I'm not saying that I am certain 5 will be better for us, I'm actually quite interested to see how this turns out keepers wise. I'm sure 2 would have worked better for some people like TNT. I'm interested in whether 2 would have worked better for the majority of people.

I commend the SSFFF and RFA for fighting for us and will continue to donate. They get us the pounds, WE, not some big monstrous government agency, decides how it's used through public comment (we don't have total control, but as evidenced by the meeting on thursday, public comment matters)

[buckfin732]

Typical goverment crap, pay more get less.Gas is up slip fees up bait is up tackle is up stock is rebuilt but we get less fish what a joke.We should be used to it by now.

[SaltyAngler]

Ryan's Fish Log

That's a heck of an idea Ryan. I'll be following suit. Got my buddies in on it too. We will be logging every keeper Fluke we catch on our boat this season (and any time we hit a PB) Let's see how the numbers stack up.

[CaptTB]

Anyone else out there feel like a fool for joining RFA and SSSf? Never did i think they would have opposing views! Oh well,i guess i'll be able to buy more jigs with the money saved. Member SSSF,former member RFA.

While I understand people's frustrations not just this time but every time regs are chosen let me just clarify something:

SSFFF has said since day one that we are NOT about an individual state's regulations. SSFFF did NOT take ANY position on fluke regulations for NJ or any other state. SSFFF has NEVER given ANY official or unofficial position on ANY specific regulations for ANY state, NJ included.

Our goal was to make sure there ARE regulations from which to choose in the first place as opposed to simply being shut down or given next to nothing in the way of being allowed to fish for EVERYONE that fishes for Fluke, not just in NJ.

While those of us that started the organization may have come from NJ we have always focused our efforts on the science and politics of FLUKE, period. Not NJ fluke, not NY fluke, etc.

I know no one was knocking SSFFF or anything like that, I just wanted to clarify that there were not two groups in opposition because SSFFF did NOT advocate for ANY option for Fluke regs....we never have and never will.

While individuals who may be part of any number of organizations, including SSFFF, may have spoken in favor of one option or another I can assure you that no one was speaking for SSFFF.

As I and others from SSFFF have said before: "No point in arguing over how you like your eggs cooked if the government is going to take away all of your eggs. Our job is to make sure we have enough eggs to actually debate the best way to cook them!"

[Kevin Bogan]

The new regs sound fine to me. I actually thought that 17", 4 or 5 fish would be good. Going to 17 would allow more tourist types to put together a decent take home catch. I feel that it turned out fair for everyone, and I'm gladto see the southern boys getting a smaller fish.:)
:cool: The Duke of Fluke:cool:

[Ryan W]

That's a heck of an idea Ryan. I'll be following suit. Got my buddies in on it too. We will be logging every keeper Fluke we catch on our boat this season (and any time we hit a PB) Let's see how the numbers stack up.


Andy S. would be proud of us keeping a logbook :D.

Tony, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone has done a study like this before. I'm not looking at the health of the stock, more at the amount of fish that we take home.

I chose to look at #of people who get more than 5 18 inchers because it doesn't matter how many fish you're allowed if you don't catch that number anyways. They could allow us 20 fish at 18", it wouldn't really matter as a substantial portion of our customers can't (or dont, for me personally its cant :p) catch even one. I don't doubt that more fluke are over 18" than are 17.5-18", but I think that realistically so few people catch over 5 at 18" on a regular basis that this merits a more serious look than just "what we remember". The only way we truly "lose" fish is if someone throws them over the side from your cooler after you catch them that day. If we don't catch them to begin with, we can't lose them. I would be very interested in seeing a log from a boat like the Monger who does very well with fluke and how these regulations end up affecting him.

[sportfishingusa]

im going to go in the river, and full and entire 14ft flat bottom with fluke, then drive up and down the river throwing them back dead, wonder if that will change the data? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Ryan W]

im going to go in the river, and full and entire 14ft flat bottom with fluke, then drive up and down the river throwing them back dead, wonder if that will change the data? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Just don't keep any short ones on a party boat :p LMFAO

[Dave A]

HA HA HA

Sorry Dave

I'm so used to changing your loyal customer's posts to "non sponsor brielle shop".......it just happened

couple that with the time of the post and i'm sure u will 4 give me

No problem Mike...lol

[Fish The Drop Off]

I have now read through this and I also need to say something.

The RFA & RFA-NJ did not offer an opinion to any of the options that were given. If you were at the meeting, you would know that no one represented the RFA or RFA-NJ.

I did voice my support for Option 5 at the meeting and in the poll on his site, but not in an official capacity for the RFA, just my personal opinion as a charter captain.

But for you guys that did not show up to the meeting to claim that the RFA gave an official opinion about any option is TOTALLY FALSE.

[Chris G]

This thread started out like a Republican Vs Democrat war....

then a Bloods Vs Crips war....

Now y'all are sounding like Sharks vs Jets....

There's a shxt ton of "what if's" & "armchair quarterbacking". It is what it is, we still have just about 5 whole months to fluke fish with a reasonable bag limit @ a half inch shorter than last year.

I personally would be happy with either option. They're both a hell of alot better than would it could be.

[JerseyHooker.Com]

I love this place !!!!

[Sharkyispy]

NO shoes.....NO shirt....NO Problems!!!!! Man I love the summer.........:D