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View Full Version : Fluke Meeting/Why We Should Support a Longer Season


Angler Paul
02-26-2012, 11:34 PM
The next meeting of the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council will be held on the Thursday, March 1,2012 at 4:00 p.m. Toms River Township Meeting Room, LM Hirshblond Room, 33 Wahington Street,Toms River, NJ 08753. Fluke and sea bass regulations will be set at this meeting and public comment will be accepted. The NJMFC request that those who speak, do so on behalf of one of the options that have been approved as no new options will be considered at this point. Also, at the NJMFC advisors meeting, it was pointed out that this is not a vote, rather the council is accepting input from the public. Therefore, it will be beneficial for those who speak to give their opinions on why they support a particular option. I intend to testify in support of the longer season as stated below though I am not certain exactly which groups, if any, that I will testify on behalf of. I would like to assure you that our NJMFC is a group of dedicated individuals who do their absolute best to accommodate the majority of our fishermen while also doing what is best for our fisheries. Remember that their hands are often tied by quotas that are set by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. Regardless whether you agree with me or not, if you are serious about fluke fishing, I encourage you to voice your opinion at the meeting.


Ten Reasons to support the fluke option that will allow us to fish for fluke from May 5th – October 21st with an 18” size limit and a bag limit of 8 fish.by Paul Haertel


1.) Having a longer season is most beneficial for our various fisheries. When the fluke season is closed many fishermen are forced to target other species. On the front end of the season when the fluke season is closed, I now see party and charter boats that rarely used to fish for stripers fishing for them on a daily basis. At times they absolutely hammer them and stripers cannot sustain this type of pressure for too much longer. Then on the back end of the season when fluke season is closed and particularly when blackfish and sea bass seasons are also closed, many boats are fishing offshore wrecks, targeting cod and pollock, two species that are just starting to make a nice comeback. Again, it is doubtful that these species can withstand this added pressure.

2.) It is imperative that we have a fluke season that will extend well into October because the other species that we normally fish for then will be closed. More specifically, blackfish will be closed from 9/1 to 10/17. Then from 10/18 to 11/15 we will only be able to keep one blackfish. Compounding the issue further it the fact that fishing for sea bass is expected to be closed from 10/15 to 11/1. In recent years stripers have not been arriving in force until November so if the fluke season is not open into late October there will be virtually nothing for surfcasters and inshore fishermen to fish for. If there is nothing to fish for in our state at that time, some of us will fish in others states or not fish at all. It is particularly important for surfcasters to be able to fish for fluke late into the fall as many of us believe that our best chance of catching a couple keepers occurs during the fall mullet run. The Governor’s Cup Fishing Tournament is in October. This tournament usually attracts approximately 1000 fishermen who pay $25. each to enter. The proceeds go towards important issues such as providing how to fish seminars, kids fishing events and purchasing special handicapped wheel chairs that are capable of riding on the beach. It is sad that in most recent years, fluke had to be removed from the tournament due to the season being closed and now for the first time since its inception blackfish will not be eligible because the season is closed.


3.) The fall is a time when many of those who target doormats have a good chance at success. The big fish have fattened up over the summer and are on the feed as they stop at wrecks and rough spots as they migrate offshore. As is the case with surf fishermen, this traditional fishery has been taken away from the trophy fishermen for a number of years.

4.) Keeping the size limit and bag limits consistent from year to year will result in more accurate statistics. We have been fighting for better fisheries science and this is one way that will help.

5.) Keeping the size and bag limits the same is better for law enforcement. Changing size
and bag limits virtually every year confuses many of the more casual fishermen. Our conservation officers end up spending a lot of time explaining the new regulations to those individuals. Our C.O.s try to be fair with everyone which is why they take the time to do this. However, with the limited number of C.O.s that we have it would be better if they had more time to track down poachers and other violators rather than having to take the time to explain new regulations.

6.) A longer season is better for the economy simply because it gives everyone regardless of whether they are surfcasters, private boaters or charter boat fishermen more days to fish. For example consider the impact it might have on tackle stores, who cater to surf fishermen, if their customers are left with nothing to fish for in October.

7.) Weather is more of a factor when the seasons are shorter. A sustained period of bad weather can be disastrous during a shortened season. A longer season provides everyone with more of an opportunity to reschedule trips that had been cancelled due to bad weather.

8.) Higher bag limits are better. Dropping the bag limit to 5 fluke might hurt participation somewhat. People spend a great deal of money for gas, bait and tackle. Though the days where people catch their limits of 8 might be infrequent, many realize that after a number of slow days they might have a really good day when they do in fact limit out. Also, once the bag limit is dropped it becomes difficult to raise it again in the future.

9.) A 17 ½” – 18” fluke is really hard to catch. I was out on the water many days last year and in fact logged in 182 trips for the NJ anglers survey. I might have caught 5 or 6 fluke between 17 ½” and 18” the entire season. I would much rather be able to keep 8 larger fluke on good days rather than keeping a few extra small ones during the season. In reality there are a lot of short fluke around but there are not too many in the 17 ½” – 18” range, rather it is public perception that there are. Many fishermen return home from a fishing trip and might honestly believe that the bulk of their shorts were 17 1/2” to 18” but in actuality many were much smaller. I guarantee you if we drop the size limit to 17 ½” then these same fishermen will be saying all they caught were 17” – 17 ½” fish. Ok, so you think I am wrong on this and there were really an abundance of 17 ½” to 18” fish around last year? That would be even better because by this year they will be all 18” plus fish and we will be able to keep them anyway.

10.) Enacting the option with a 17 ½” size limit will not only result in us having to reduce the bag limit from 8 to 5 but will reduce the number of days we are allowed to fish from 170 to 147. It is simply not worth losing 3 fish from our bag limit and 23 days of fishing just to be a able to keep a few more 17 ½” – 18” fish during the season.

SaltyJim
02-27-2012, 12:48 AM
8 fish bag limit.. and 18in.. I agree.. The longer season is worth the extra 1/2in and bag limit.. loose 23 days and 3 fish just to keep only 5, 17 and 1/2in fish is crazy.. Last season was one of the best.. There is no need to drop size limit..

JBird
02-27-2012, 08:05 AM
Personally, I think 8 fish is a lot. 6 fish with a lower size limit would be fine as very few people limit with 8 anyway. People would still pay to keep 6.

Almost all of our "options" are 8 at 18" with various different season lengths. How were these season lengths determined? I don't understand how size and bag can remain the same under such varying season lengths.

Go ahead and keep the season long but how about this: up until around Memorial day limit the bag to 1 fish at 17". This will cover incidental catches. (Like doormats trolled on Stretch plugs) From then on 6 fish at 17".

There are a lot of 17-18 inch fish out there from my experience working deck.
Also, there is no law against releasing big fluke...something to consider in non-pool, non-tournament situations.

Capt. Lou
02-27-2012, 08:42 AM
Smaller size limits will probably cause us to overfish our allotted tonnGe, which would in turn limit future seasons. Early slots are to confusing to keep track of,stausquo 18" fish, plenty around.
I'm not for giving up season length for shorter fish , you may fish yourself into a corner, look at NY!

wrktoomuch
02-27-2012, 09:11 AM
Well said Angler Paul. You can speak for me and many others.

NoWorries
02-27-2012, 09:21 AM
Smaller size limits will probably cause us to overfish our allotted tonnGe, which would in turn limit future seasons. Early slots are to confusing to keep track of,stausquo 18" fish, plenty around.
I'm not for giving up season length for shorter fish , you may fish yourself into a corner, look at NY!
I will be present on Thursday at the meeting and am in favor of the 18" May5 -Oct 21 season for this reason plus we are very close to having rebuilt this fishery. Personally my I only log 18" keepers and haven't tracked shorts. I know my numbers would go way up. Tackle shops in my area seem to favor this one too.

Captain Rich
02-27-2012, 09:50 AM
Paul- very well stated, especially the part about putting pressure on other species when fluke season is closed. Thank you.

Topeka Boy
02-27-2012, 09:58 AM
Wouldn't a longer season and a bag limit of 8 fish put a lot of pressure on the fluke and hurt future size and bag limits.:(

JerseyHooker.Com
02-27-2012, 10:01 AM
Paul, well said thank you I will be @ the Metting on Thursday

Ol Pedro
02-27-2012, 10:35 AM
Taking Weather into consideration I would like to have the most possible time on the water . But I'm afraid that if they go with the larger size we will never get back to 17 1/2" in following Seasons .

Rayman1
02-27-2012, 10:47 AM
Thanks for all the hard work you put into this Paul.. We really appreciate it. I'm going to try my best to make it (Tax day for me!) representing Grumpys Tackle. We're all for the longer season and 18" size limit.

----To all NJfishing members and friends----

Please let all your fishing buds know about this and tell them to try to make it Thursday. A longer season would not only help the fisherman but also the Bait Tackle Stores and Party/Charter boats. We need the longer season point blank!

Sidewinder
02-27-2012, 11:04 AM
plus we are very close to having rebuilt this fishery. Personally my I only log 18" keepers and haven't tracked shorts.

Ummm The stock has been rebuilt for 4 years already maybe 5. This crap they are pulling now is all about politics not about the fluke.

When the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act was imposed and a finite time frame to rebuild fluke stocks that have fell to a record low was implemented, they gave themselves a 10 year time frame starting in 2000. IMHO by 2007 the stock was rebuilt but to them they still needed more, so the kept this charade going and then said well we will not make the 10 year deadline so lets impose stricter laws.

These people are idiots and if you think for one second the fluke stock isn't rebuilt, you need to go fluking more often. ;)

This isn't about the stocks any longer it is like I have stated before about politics...

arat
02-27-2012, 11:15 AM
I don't know about anyone else. now. i voted for the 18 inch size limit.

but I saw someone say a split season. I think that can work for all parties. say from early April you can keep 2-3 fluke per day (i think 1 is a little light) at 18 or 17 1/2 inches

then starting early May and going through mid October lets say 15-16-17 for arguments sake your allowed 6-7 fish PD, PP at 18''

everyone wins! a little confusing for the average guy??........ maybe but many people have already stated (screw the 3-4 time a year guy) so this way you have you fluke for almost an extra month. and all you give up is 1 or 2 fish on the bag limit during the main season. I think that is something that everyone could live with. 12 or 14 fillets to take home if you limit........ and you get to fish for the jersey favorite during most of April and you still have a legit shot to get a real doormat.

tackle shops sell fluke rigs and bait and bucktails for an extra month almost and party boats could sail special fluke trips during the week instead of targeting Stripers or bottom species only. and we all know that when fluke opens a different clientele starts to fish on a more regular basis.

Knot Guilty
02-27-2012, 06:19 PM
Thank you Paul for your hard work. I agree with you 100%. I will be in attendance at this meeting and hopefully can thank you personally.

team heat
02-27-2012, 07:57 PM
While i agree with most of what angler paul is saying i think we should take into account that problably 80% of the people fishing for fluke are not really good at it.These people are moms and dads with their kids,boyfreinds,girlfreinds,grandpop,company charters,rental boaters etc.Having a 5 fish limit @ 17.5inches would a least give all these people a shot at bringing home a meal or two or seeing a smile on a kids face.For us in the other 20% we know you have to go to the rough stuff to have chance of getting a limit of 18 inch fish.If you go on a party boat who do you think is catching the most and the biggest fish its the guys in the bow with their custom rods and reels and tackle boxes full of jigs while the regular fares are catching shorts or nothing at all.The party boat captains are not going to take a boatload of rookies to the rattlesnake even know they know thats where the keepers are.We in the 20% fish more often and are alot better at it so having enough fluke fillets is usually not a problem.I hope we just dont think about ourselves but take everbody into account.

Chris G
02-27-2012, 08:07 PM
While i agree with most of what angler paul is saying i think we should take into account that problably 80% of the people fishing for fluke are not really good at it.These people are moms and dads with their kids,boyfreinds,girlfreinds,grandpop,company charters,rental boaters etc.Having a 5 fish limit @ 17.5inches would a least give all these people a shot at bringing home a meal or two or seeing a smile on a kids face.For us in the other 20% we know you have to go to the rough stuff to have chance of getting a limit of 18 inch fish.If you go on a party boat who do you think is catching the most and the biggest fish its the guys in the bow with their custom rods and reels and tackle boxes full of jigs while the regular fares are catching shorts or nothing at all.The party boat captains are not going to take a boatload of rookies to the rattlesnake even know they know thats where the keepers are.We in the 20% fish more often and are alot better at it so having enough fluke fillets is usually not a problem.I hope we just dont think about ourselves but take everbody into account.

Couldn't agree more. And for what its worth, I also like the longer season 18" option if that's what it comes down to. I think every option is decent.... Except for #6.

broken bobber
02-27-2012, 08:15 PM
If you GIVE BACK FISH...... YOU WILL NEVER GET THEM BACK.....

Sharkyispy
02-27-2012, 08:34 PM
4PM Meeting? Sorry, want to be there but must also work and that's an hour plus away. Voice for me, 18" and longer season......

JBird
02-28-2012, 09:50 AM
If you GIVE BACK FISH...... YOU WILL NEVER GET THEM BACK.....


Not for nothing NY upped the bag and lowered the size limit.

broken bobber
02-28-2012, 09:58 AM
Not for nothing NY upped the bag and lowered the size limit.

hahaha yea they went from 3 fish to 4..... huge get back..... 4 fish limit in NJ will KILL the recreational industry

here were the coastal regs years back

'93. Six fish, 14", 5/15-9/30
'94. Eight fish, 14", 4/15-10/15
'95. Eight fish, 14", open season
'96 Ten fish, 14", open season
'97. Eight fish, 14.5", open season
'98. Eight fish, 15", open season
'99. Eight fish, 15", 5/29-9/11
'00. Eight fish, 15.5", 5/10-10/02
'01. Three fish, 15.5", 4/15-10/15

Kevin Bogan
02-28-2012, 10:07 AM
I think a fish or two less, maybe 6 fish at 16 or17 inches so that the tourists that fish party boats have a chance to keep something.

Ram 204
02-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Lets keep it simple for every one 18" fish longer season educate those who pretend not to know the rules. For those who do not catch their bag limit just think it could happen the next trip out. I enjoy fishing and if I catch legal fish it adds a plus to my trip:)

Mike K
02-28-2012, 05:56 PM
I respect your opinion. Nobody could say any of you're arguments are wrong, but can't we at least for one season try a shorter size limit? Maybe the majority of fishermen will actually come to favor it. It's not like we can't revert back to a longer size limit next season.

Knot Guilty
02-28-2012, 09:17 PM
Mike, I hear you and all others, IMO we have sacraficed
for years now to try to rebuild the stock. If the powers
to be feel we are headed in the right direction now,
let's wait and see how this season plays out. I voted for
option 2 for 2012 for many reasons, but let's not put
the horse before the cart.

SNAPS
02-28-2012, 09:28 PM
Ummm The stock has been rebuilt for 4 years already maybe 5. This crap they are pulling now is all about politics not about the fluke.

When the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act was imposed and a finite time frame to rebuild fluke stocks that have fell to a record low was implemented, they gave themselves a 10 year time frame starting in 2000. IMHO by 2007 the stock was rebuilt but to them they still needed more, so the kept this charade going and then said well we will not make the 10 year deadline so lets impose stricter laws.

These people are idiots and if you think for one second the fluke stock isn't rebuilt, you need to go fluking more often. ;)

This isn't about the stocks any longer it is like I have stated before about politics...

Sidewinder I agree, also anyone can justify anything,SO WHAT PAUL IS SAYING IS THAT we can't control ourselves ?, so we beat up on one species so we don't beat up on another ? what kind of pretzel logic is that ? longer seaon huh ? what happened last year irene blew through and shut IT down, we lost the longer season, and how many times do weekend warriors really limit out ? especially on a party boat ? they give us options and make us think they are doing us a favor, ALMOST same as when you want a kid to do something he dont want to do, therefore you give him one or more WORSE options, hence he has no choice but to pick the option you want him to choose.
Their numbers are skewed PERIOD.

Angler Paul
02-29-2012, 01:33 AM
Thanks for some of your kind words and support for the option 2 (8 fluke at
18" with an 8 fish bag limit and a season from 5/5 - 10/21) . I will be testifying at the meeting on behalf of the Berkeley Striper Club and the New Jersey Beach Buggy Association. Also as 2nd VP of the Jersey Coast Angler's Association, I was very pleased at tonights meeting where the vast majority of member clubs present voted to support the same option. JCAA will be sending another one of our members to speak on behalf of this option. Just for the record, even though the majority of our member clubs voted to support this option we still encourage our member clubs who prefer a different option to send one of thier representatives to speak at the meeting. As I said earlier it is important for all those who care about fluke fishing to let their voices be heard.

Paul Haertel
2nd V. P. - Jeresy Coast Anglers Association
member - Berkeley Striper Club, New Jersey Beach Buggy Assoiciation and New Jersey Outdoor Alliance

flukemaster1
03-01-2012, 08:09 AM
Real nice job Paul! I agree one thousand percent on your presentation. I will also be there. Thanks for your efforts!!!

frugalfisherman
03-01-2012, 10:16 AM
While i agree with most of what angler paul is saying i think we should take into account that problably 80% of the people fishing for fluke are not really good at it.These people are moms and dads with their kids,boyfreinds,girlfreinds,grandpop,company charters,rental boaters etc.Having a 5 fish limit @ 17.5inches would a least give all these people a shot at bringing home a meal or two or seeing a smile on a kids face.For us in the other 20% we know you have to go to the rough stuff to have chance of getting a limit of 18 inch fish.If you go on a party boat who do you think is catching the most and the biggest fish its the guys in the bow with their custom rods and reels and tackle boxes full of jigs while the regular fares are catching shorts or nothing at all.The party boat captains are not going to take a boatload of rookies to the rattlesnake even know they know thats where the keepers are.We in the 20% fish more often and are alot better at it so having enough fluke fillets is usually not a problem.I hope we just dont think about ourselves but take everbody into account.
Try fishing the J2. Captain Ryan hits the rough stuff no matter what. That's why I'm getting ready now!

Blackfish Doug
03-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Try fishing the J2. Captain Ryan hits the rough stuff no matter what. That's why I'm getting ready now!
Yeah that looks like about a weeks worth of Bucktails LOL.

Reelron
03-01-2012, 02:49 PM
I respect your opinion. Nobody could say any of you're arguments are wrong, but can't we at least for one season try a shorter size limit? Maybe the majority of fishermen will actually come to favor it. It's not like we can't revert back to a longer size limit next season.

Just out of curiosity, where does it say we can revert back to a longer season next year if a shorter size limit doesn't work?