The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

[Kensdock]

THE COST OF NO
NEW JERSEY SALT WATER FISHING LICENSE
TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY AND THE SALT WATER FISHERMEN OF NEW JERSEY


150 Million dollars in federal stimulus money

7 Salt water hatcheries

3,129 immediate construction jobs benefiting local economies near hatchery sites.

169 permanent green jobs in the form of biologists and other hatchery personnel.

Millions of dollars of New Jersey's fair share of the Federal excise tax return.

40 million dollars annually in license fees to enhance New Jersey salt water fishing

Millions in lost tourist dollars

Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.

The ability to protect against poaching of our salt water fish.

The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses

The ability of New Jersey to responsibly manage the States marine resources.

New Jersey fishermen will lose their fair share of flounder, sea bass, tug and other fish due to the inability to submit the proper data to the federal government.

Negative impact to our New Jersey shore culture

Reduced value of New Jersey waterfront property

The ability of New Jersey to proactively rebuild the States depleted Weakfish population.

Reduced opportunities for future generations of New Jersey salt water anglers!

[PBangler]

Kensdock,

Do you want to know or even care to know what actually lies ahead for recreational fishing? You can’t learn this by being on the water or by generations of fishermen in the family.

You’d have to know how the recent amendments to the governing laws of the 2006 Magnuson Stevens Reauthorization Act were interpreted by the NMFS. You’d have to read the guidance given to all United States Federal Coastal Fisheries Management Councils to follow.

You’d have to know in our own little neck of the woods in the Mid-Atlantic an omnibus document is in draft as we speak for all of our fisheries. You’d have to read it is inclusive of recreational paybacks, shut-downs, new accountability for all dead recreationally discarded fish and buffers for ACL’s and ACT’s.

IOW, we are headed for a drastic change in management, which has to be enacted by either 2010 or 2011, depending on the condition of the stock. Add to this we will be hitting rebuilding deadlines in the upcoming years, with the potential for complete closures.

I hope you enjoyed your fluke fishing this year and thanked founders & contributors of the SSSFF for the additional quota received.

Rome is burning and a SWL isn’t going to put a dent in the fire.

[Pete]

North Carolina has a saltwater license, yet they are now having the luxury of having to endure a two species full closure. I seriously doubt that little, if anything can be done license or not. That is, once the feds put the hammer down. Looks like challenges similar to the RFA and Ssfff are in order by those southern boys. My money is better spent in the aforementioned orgs. Rather than a saltwater liscense. At least I can see the results that come from fighting the good fight. I veiw the license as a capitulation, should it become a reality, by the fishing fraternity of this great state. Registration YES, license NO. This isn't the lesser of two evils, it is good versus evil.

New Jersey has a way of luring is in. They start small, then increase fees at will. Sort of an open door type policy. Try to get it closed.

We HAVE to register. That IS the law for 2010. How much it will cost is anyones guess. Hopefully, nothing. In NJ that IS wishful thinking.

All avenues need to be exhausted, before the imposition of any "fees".

We are the taxed to the bone state. Additional costs don't lessen the burden.

Just my two cents.

Pete

[Kensdock]

Deer hunting today,just in for a second. I will shout back to you tonight.

[GottaGo Joe]

Deer hunting...do you have a list of all the licenses and/or permits that are needed to hunt? The hunting license started out as a 'small fee' to pay for an improved hunt. What are the fees now? Has the hunt improved? Is there more land to hunt or do you need to pay to hunt someone's private property?

This is the very same route a fishing license will take if imposed on us.

[njdiver]

Saltwater Registry Information

The NJ DEP Division of Fish and Wildlife reminds saltwater anglers that the federal government's National Saltwater Angler Registry Program requires most New Jersey saltwater anglers to register prior to fishing in 2010.

You must register if you*

* Fish for or catch anadromous species (striped bass, shad, river herring) in state tidal waters
* Fish in Federal waters (more than 3 miles from shore)

You do not have to register if you*

* Are under 16 years of age
* Only fish on federally licensed party or charter boats
* Hold a Highly Migratory Species Angling Permit

Online and telephone registration will begin January 1, 2010. Register online at www.countmyfish.noaa.gov or call toll free 888-674-7411.

Registration is free in 2010.

If you need assistance please email njfishandwildlife@dep.state.nj.us.


http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2009/registryinfo.htm

[Tuna Tales]

Kensdock:

We went through this crap already - please give it up...it is getting old.

I own a HMS Federal Extortion Permit...what has it done for me? Gee...let me think...of yeah...I now get to keep one BFT per boat - not per man, but per boat. Maybe two if I am lucky enough to catch one larger than 47".
Oh what joy!!! We went from 5 BFT per man in 1990 to 1 BFT per boat in 2009. I am so happy I am paying the Gov't my hard earned money for less fish to catch/keep.

Please explain to me what my $18.00 ($22.00) HMS Federal Extortion Permit that I have paying for the past 12+ years has done for us (me)????????????????????

I did not know they are going to stock fluke and blackfish with the State Funded Fish Farms...would LOVE to see those. Do you really think the money from any "saltwater license" will go to help us fishermen? Think hard...this is New Jersey.

Just in case you did not hear me the first time - New Jersey has enough money to do the mandatory registration that will be "required" for 2010. I already pay enough in taxes, tolls, fees, permits etc. NJ has the HIGHEST property taxes in the nation and probably the world. The state can set up a website for $250.00 and people can sign up that way.

No "license fee" is needed or wanted here (and 30 other fishing friends)...none, zip, zero, nada...........

If "they" want to count me - that is fine...count me...but PLEASE don't say it is OK for another extortion "license"...we all pay more than enough to cover this already.



Joe T.

[tautog]

What would I be paying for? I get 2 months of sea bassing, only get to keep tog during the worst weather part of the season and get one bluefin if I'm lucky. What will I fih for in July and August? All ling all the time, just gotta hope they aren't decimated by a huge increase in fishing pressure.

[1captainron]

Salt Water licence equalls:
An administrator who will make $150,000 a year followed by an assistant, secretary, book-keeper and so on....
More Conservation Officers at whatever salary. New Trucks, more guns.

You still won't be allowed to catch Flounder in the Spring, Sea Bass.
Fluke size won't go down and the season is going to be shorter once again!!
They say the money will go into an account for fishery only....THIS IS NEW JERSEY PEOPLE!! If you beleave that, you haven't lived here long.

What did the extra $400 bucks get me for a lousy 2 months for the opportunity to fish in NY waters?? Nothing and I already have the bill for next season!
Federal money to the State...Hell, we can't even get a grant to do any research....Maybe if we applied for bail out....now that's a thought!!!

[Leif]

This is what you get for a $41.00 anual saltwater license in California...

a shortage of game wardens and a new $5 voluntary tag to raise money for state salaries.

That's just great!


Sport fishers land some big ones
By Kristopher Hanson Staff Writer
Posted: 12/06/2009 10:25:40 PM PST


Tom Raftican runs the Sportfishing Conservancy. (Brittany Murray Staff Telegram)
LONG BEACH - It's been a productive year for Tom Raftican and his Long Beach-based nonprofit Sportfishing Conservancy.

In March, the grass-roots organization won a preliminary victory when the state's Fish and Game Commission agreed to end the requirement that fishermen wear angler licenses around their necks - ending a longtime source of frustration for recreational anglers who argued the licenses were obstructive and potentially dangerous if caught in a fishing line during a day at sea or on the lake.

And this week, the conservancy's drive to create a voluntary $5 hunting and fishing "stamp" - or decal - directly supporting California's roughly 375 game wardens is expected to be unveiled in Los Angeles, said Lorna Bernard, a Department of Fish and Game spokeswoman.

The image will be reminiscent of the original game warden badge, but authorities have not picked the final image. They expect to do so Tuesday, Bernard said.

The sticker stamp, which would be offered to the more than 2 million people who purchase hunting/fishing licenses in California each year, could generate millions annually to help pay for new warden equipment, training, support for warden dogs and to supplement a warden widows' fund.

But its overall success will depend on a willingness to kick in an extra $5 on top of the fees - which can range from $6.50 to $143 - already required by the state to hunt and fish.

For example, if 15 percent of recreational hunters and anglers purchased the stamp in 2010, $1.5 million would be raised for the fund. Officials also hope to market the stamp to environmental groups and conservationists, who support warden efforts to end poaching and preserve wildlife.
Raftican hopes to raise participation to 40 or 50 percent through an aggressive statewide "campaign of solidarity" among anglers, hunters and the wardens, whose budget has been slashed as the state reels from an ever-deepening budget crisis.

"Anglers and hunters and conservationists know these wardens and they understand the importance wardens play in overseeing preservation and protection of the state's abundant hunting and fishing areas," Raftican said. "I strongly believe they'll be inclined to chip in an extra $5 to help. I know I'm personally going to be challenging them to do as much every chance I get."

Raftican said Sportfishing Conservancy has agreed to purchase the first 200 stamps, which he will send out to 200 angling clubs throughout the state with a note encouraging them to ask their tens of thousands of members to purchase the stamp when renewing their licenses.

"If we get half of the people purchasing hunting and fishing licenses next year to peel off that extra $5, just think of the impact it could have," Raftican said. "That's about $5 million wardens badly need right now to replace equipment and support their operations. It's just an all-around good cause."

In California, sport fishing is big business, supporting more than 40,000 jobs and roughly $2 billion in sales annually for sport-fishing equipment alone, according to the Sportfishing Association of California, a trade organization.

It's the job of the state's Fish and Game wardens to oversee hunting and fishing laws on land and water, protect wildlife, investigate violations, prevent poaching and enforce environmental law, among other duties.

Wardens carry handguns, testify in court and have a jurisdiction covering some 4,800 lakes, 1,100 miles of coastline, 80 major rivers and more than 350 endangered or protected wildlife species.

But with just 200 or so officers - a level the state says has dropped to a number last seen in the 1950s - it's a taxing job made more difficult with the recent cuts.

While fishing and hunting licenses generate about $72 million annually for Fish and Game activities, including warden pay, there remains little left over for new equipment and other necessities.

"Anglers have persistently led the fight for conservation and wardens have tirelessly protected California's resources," said April Wakeman, the Sportfishing Conservancy's program director. "Great fishing depends on great resources."

Helping wildlife

What: Voluntary $5 hunting and fishing stamp/sticker, which will be offered to all sport fishermen and hunters when they apply for required licenses.

Why: To generate money for a legally protected fund from which California's roughly 200 game wardens could draw money for new equipment, training or to supplement a warden widow/families fund. Game wardens are responsible for enforcement of fishing and hunting laws, prevention of poaching and wildlife and environmental protection, among other duties.

Cost: $5

Where: The stamp will be available anytime an individual purchases a fishing or hunting license, including through the Fish and Game Web site, www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing.

Image: Unavailable, although Department of Fish and Game officials are expected to unveil the image Thursday in Los Angeles.

Current sport fishing and hunting fees: Can range from $13 for a one-day sport fishing license to $143 for a nonresident license to hunt land mammals or birds. Annual sport fishing and hunting licenses for Californians cost about $41, although those under 16 years are exempt from most fees.

On July 4 and Sept. 6, the state does not require sport fishing licenses for any person.

Web site: Sport fishing Conservancy - www.sportcon.org. California Department of Fish and Game - www.dfg.ca.gov.

562-499-1466, kristopher.hanson@presstelegram.com

[1captainron]

Like to see them run this through NY!!!
While, as those guys with their piss ass attitude are looking in your engine room, rummaging through customers lunch boxes and ladies pocket books searching for illegal fillets or a piece of Fluke bellie that you used for bait, I want to make sure I have my Special Decal to show support!!

Maybe they could make the decal similar to the Swastika, that would get some attention....

[JIMMY L]

Just who is this Kensdock anyway,who is he fronting for? Does he oppose everything RFA and SSSF support just to stir the pot? Do i detect the smell of PEW in the background?

[Kensdock]

If, New Jersey had a salt water license it would make it possible for New Jersey to apply and receive the stimulus money that is available. Look at Florida!!

Source: Brett Boston of the Wildlife Foundation of Florida
Excerpt:
A proposal to secure almost $150 million in funding for this effort has been submitted to Congress, as well as to Gov. Charlie Crist’s office.

The money requested would come from Obama’s stimulus package through the state Legislature.


“We did our homework and we’re ready for this money,”


A free salt water registry will do NOTHING to improve fishing!!

[PBangler]

Kensdock,

Why do you claim Florida’s SWL was a prerequisite for the enactment of the Florida Marine Fisheries Enhancement Initiative (FMFEI)?

The FMFEI is coalition of public and private organizations lead by the Wildlife Foundation of Florida, a public non-profit 501(c)(3).

The FMFEI is not only seeking federal stimulus funds, but private and corporate donations of money and land as well.

Please explain the connection between the Initiative and Florida having a SWL. Thanks

[Kensdock]

The salt water license is the part of the plan that provides the funding to run the hatchery once construction is complete. Without the ability to fund daily operations they will not allocate one cent.

[PBangler]

The salt water license is the part of the plan that provides the funding to run the hatchery once construction is complete. Without the ability to fund daily operations they will not allocate one cent.

First of all it's not one hatchery, the proposal is for 7 hatcheries in the State of FL.

Second, I can find no evidence to back up your assertion that FL's SWL will fund the running of these hatcheries.

Please point me in the direction of where you found this information.

[Kensdock]

First of all it's not one hatchery, the proposal is for 7 hatcheries in the State of FL.

Second, I can find no evidence to back up your assertion that FL's SWL will fund the running of these hatcheries.

Please point me in the direction of where you found this information.

You missed my point. I am well aware that they plan on building 7 saltwater hatcheries. I am also well aware that NJ needs a saltwater license to make the hatcheries and the jobs and benefits they bring a reality here in NJ.

Through my knowledge and experience I have found that anytime a grant or stimulus money is applied for from the federal government to build a wind mill farm, power plant or saltwater hatchery ect. a source of funding the operation of the facility most be identified. The NJ salt water license would qualify as a source of funding. So would the state of NJ but with a budget defect in the billions that is not a even a remote possibility.

[Kensdock]

Some people will be unable to assimilate this information but for the people that do, they will have a better understanding as to why a saltwater license is a good investment in the future of saltwater fishing.

It is true that the Governor of Virginia or New Jersey can cut the contribution from the general fund to any department. In NJ, the contribution from the general fund is miniscule in comparison to the funds that would be raised by a NJ saltwater license. You can bet that the contribution will be less next year in light of the billion dollar deficit the State of NJ is facing. The saltwater license should raise about 40 million dollars, if the state contributes 1 million from the general fund they can cut the 1 million,they can not touch the 40 million. Do the math.
This will leave the saltwater anglers of New Jersey way ahead. It will give Fish and game the ability to successfully manage our saltwater fish. It will also make it possible to take a proactive approach to improving our saltwater fishing in NJ.

As far as the Governor of Virginia taking 300,000 dollars from the hunting and fishing license fund, the $300,000 dollars will cost the state millions, as it will be forced to return millions of dollars of the excise tax refund to the federal Government. Many governors have removed money from fishing and hunting dedicated funds only to return them after the realization of the ramifications of stealing the funds.


As many of you know NJ has not stolen any money from the dedicated hunting and fresh water fishing fund since its inception over one hundred years ago.

[Kensdock]

The party boat and charter boat organization is missing the opportunity to be involved in the saltwater license bill.They also are risking the position of leverage they hold at this time.

They could use the position to demand the following in exchange for supporting a salt water license:

Make the charter and party boat industry limited entry.

A free license to party boat and charter for the first five years

The size limit for flounder a half inch shorter on p&c boats

Increase the requirements to operate example: pass a test that indicates you have the knowledge required to catch fish with a council made up of captains that make the final decision .

The ability to fish for flounder and seas bass during the closed season.

[PBangler]

The party boat and charter boat organization is missing the opportunity to be involved in the saltwater license bill.They also are risking the position of leverage they hold at this time.

They could use the position to demand the following in exchange for supporting a salt water license:

Make the charter and party boat industry limited entry.

A free license to party boat and charter for the first five years

The size limit for flounder a half inch shorter on p&c boats

Increase the requirements to operate example: pass a test that indicates you have the knowledge required to catch fish with a council made up of captains that make the final decision .

The ability to fish for flounder and seas bass during the closed season.

As this goes on your posts become more and more preposterous. What does any of this have to do with a SWL? They could ask for that now if they wanted. What ... a blanket license fee is going to tip the scale in their favor. I guess if it costs them each a million bucks it might.

You've made a lot of claims in this thread. To name a few:

$40,000,000 will be the revenue from a NJ SWL license.

VA will lose millions of dollars for Govenor Kaine's action of cutting the general fund budget by $300,000 to the marine enforcement.

NJ SWL would qualify as a source of funding for daily operational costs of a SW hatchery built with federal stimulus funds.

Prove them all by pointing us to your source(s) of documentation supporting them.

If you can't, then your assertions are nothing more than useless propaganda.

[CaptTB]

I siad I would not respond to this nonsense anymore, but since Kensdock has taken it upon himself to talk about things which he does not understand, let's try to educate him.

He may be unable to assimilate this information, so next time I might have to type using crayons:rolleyes:

The party boat and charter boat organization is missing the opportunity to be involved in the saltwater license bill.They also are risking the position of leverage they hold at this time.

They could use the position to demand the following in exchange for supporting a salt water license:

Make the charter and party boat industry limited entry.
And he thinks this is a good idea, to limit the amount of competition,(which to someone who does not know anything about running a business that may seem like a good idea) and at the same time limit your capacity to expand your own business, and pigeonhole your industry into a finite number of businesses, and thereby make you easier to eliminate. Look at the commercial industry since they have done a similar thing. They are now nearing extinction.

A free license to party boat and charter for the first five years
The federal registry already exempts party and charterboats, even after the fee would be implemented (not saying I want a federal registry by the way)
Kens brilliant idea is for party and charterboats to give up the exemption and start paying in a few years. Yes, that is truly a genius suggestion.

The size limit for flounder a half inch shorter on p&c boats

Showing his total lack of understanding of how the system works and how regulations are promulgated, Kensdock ignores the fact that the state does not have the authority to simply make the size limit on party and charterboats an inch shorter:rolleyes:

Increase the requirements to operate example: pass a test that indicates you have the knowledge required to catch fish with a council made up of captains that make the final decision .
Again, Kensdock ignores the fact that such a system is not allowed, and the state of NJ is not likely to discriminate against people in such a manner. Forget the fact that "passing a test that indicates you have knowledge required to catch fish" is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this site or any other (except perhaps on fishinghurts.com)

The ability to fish for flounder and seas bass during the closed season.
Yet again, kensdock ignore the fact that the state has no such authority, since it is a federal closure we are talking about.

Does anyone here actually take this guy seriously? Why are we even entertaining such completely nonsensical ramblings? Can you believe someone would actually type this crap and expect people to buy it?

Wow, at least now I know that I can ignore this BS, this is probably the stupidest "explanation" and "correction" of misinformation I have ever had to deal with. Should have stuck to my original plan of ignoring this crap. Well, it's never too late to start again!!:D

Ken, it is apparent from the above quoted comments that you really took my advice to heart and hit the books and learned how the system works. I can now confidently say that you really "went to school" to learn about fisheries management. I even got a picture of you wearing your new college t-shirt

http://rlv.zcache.com/totally_clueless_university_tshirt-p235379231744072151tdf9_210.jpg

[Kensdock]

Capt., Limited entry for the party and charter boat industry would increase the value of the business the minute the law was signed. It has worked well for commercial fishermen. Ask truex of the clamming industry, Ask Danny Cowen of the fishing industry, Ask any scalloper. Ask Genovese of the tuna fishing boats Ask them if it would help their business if everyone with a boat and captains license could enter their fishery!

As it stands now anyone with a boat and a captains license that can be bought for a few dollars can open up party boat or charter boat business! You think that is good for business!!

Many states require a guides license. Yes there is a test you need to pass. Sample questions: What type of bottom are you lest likely to find flounder? What should the drag be set at if you are fishing for white marlin? I think most captains would agree if you can not answer simple questions like these you have no business charging people to fish with you.


It must have been a while since you have gone fishing the state of nj waters offer excellent fishing for sea bass and flounder.There already is an option to fish in federal waters during the closed season. You have the opportunity to use your leverage to make it happen for all charter and party boats in NJ.


I was talking about a NJ saltwater license NOT a free register. If the party and charter boats were exempt from any license fee for five years when a license is require to fish in saltwater anyplace else I can assure you that will help business.

Capt.TB, As far as the size limit being a inch shorter for p&c boats Captain sometimes you have to make things happen!



How does a free register help your business? Why not support a NJ saltwater license and be involved in writing the law. Making sure it is advantages to your business. This is a once in a generation opportunity for your business.

[Pete]

Kensdock,

"It is sometimes better to sit and remain silent, rather than to speak and be thought the fool"....... author unknown

Please take heed to that saying. While I don't agree with most of your posts. I respect your right to offer them. However, this license issue takes the cake! Your skewed tunnel vision view goads me into, yet, another reply.

I just can't understand what side you are on. It is as if you are kind of in your own private little fiefdom, of which you preside as king. You continue to express many views as being factual. However, when taken to task, and chided for proof, you manage to tap dance around those direct queries. Using terms like just ask so and so, or I recall. Time and again you never provide exacting proof. You spout out rule changes, none having any merit. Nor, could they pass the smell test if they were ever to get into a legal arena. Provide a bibliography that pertains to your "facts". PLEASE!

My take on getting captains tested for their fishing knowlege is yet another way of starting one more very costly beauracracy. There are people in all walks of life that are untested business owners. If a certain captain doesn't produce due to his lack of fishing knowledge. He won't remain in business very long. Not unlike the lousy house painter or the bad carpenter. I have a greater concern that I have a safe return to port. That is why they ARE licensed as captains. Just because a captain knows, book wise, how to fish. It doesn't mean he can put a catch together. No more than a carpenter can build a house.

I believe you also intend to depredate all recreational fishermen, marina owners, gas docks, etc.etc. When only the party and charter guys have the closed season rights. Who will be doing these things? Drive the wedge Ken, drive the wedge. Did someone say incite a riot? Divide and conquer that one really works well.

Some of these comments wouldn't EVER make any sense. How a license fits in is anybodys guess.

Get over it already. NO LICENSE EVER!

Pete

[Leif]

People like Kensdock provides a great service to this site. He constantly reminds us of how proposed and current rulings and regulations can be spun and mis-interpreted by the general public.

It also gives Capt. TB who is knowledgeable, has legitimate experience and contacts to decipher and dis-spell the inaccurate and misconstrued beliefs of the ignorant individual with a "different agenda."

Leif

[Tuna Tales]

Kensdock:

I have an idea...I will pay $20.00 for the saltwater license fee if you (and every other liberal, corrupt NJ and Federal politician) can guarantee me the following in writing:

1. NJ fluke limits: 8 fish at 16": Season: May 1st to October 30th

2. NJ Blackfish limits: 8 fish at 14". (closed season, if any TBD)

3. Stripers: As is...no changes there for me.

4. Bluefin tuna: One BFT per person: 27 to 47", One bonus 47"+ BFT per boat.

5. Yellowfin tuna: I am fine as is...

6. Seabass: 15 per person, 12" min. No closed season.

So here is my $20.00...take it. Go build your fish farms so you can stock fluke (flounder), tuna, blackfish etc. We have more fish than ever before so these regulations should be fine.

I want this in writing because there is no way in hell I am paying for a paid Extortion Saltwater License fee without it. Not on my watch!


Thx

Joe T.

[Kensdock]

Why has NJ not applied for the hundreds of millions of dollars in stimulus money available for saltwater hatcheries?

Why does NJ not have the staff to responsibly manage our saltwater fish?

[jakesdad]

Why not answer the previous questions that responses are requested . You just keep rambling without ever responding to what is asked of you. If you think you know best either prove it or stop rocking the boat!!!

[CaptTB]

Capt., Limited entry for the party and charter boat industry would increase the value of the business the minute the law was signed. Yeah, only if I WANT TO SELL IT!!!!

However, if I want to EXPAND my business I would then have to purchase an already existing boat and permit, and/or be restricted in the ability to increase the size of my vessel (EVERY commercial permit has a limit on the increase in size and horsepower you are allowed...bet you did not know that one either!!)

I BUILD the boats I want, not buy what someone else wanted. With limited entry I do not have that ability.

Please stop trying to pretend you know more about the for-hire industry than my family that has been in it since the 1920's:rolleyes:

It has worked well for commercial fishermen. Ask truex of the clamming industry, Ask Danny Cowen of the fishing industry, Ask any scalloper. Ask Genovese of the tuna fishing boats Ask them if it would help their business if everyone with a boat and captains license could enter their fishery! Helped huh? Sure, Danny Cohen is thrilled, but the dozens of guys that are now GONE with instead only 2 people who control nearly the ENTIRE clam industry in NJ (a -not a knock on Danny Cohen b- I did not say the entire, I said NEARLY the entire)

Ask the Scallop boats? You mean like all the day boats that have made a living off of scallops for the past 5 years who have now been eliminated from the industry? Like the two boats currently being scrapped at Yanks?

Sure Ken, I'll listen to you:rolleyes:

As it stands now anyone with a boat and a captains license that can be bought for a few dollars can open up party boat or charter boat business! You think that is good for business!!
ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!! It's called free market enterprise and capitalism Ken, welcome to the United States!

Every time some hammerhead without a clue opens a partyboat business the people fish with him/her ONCE and then come running back to those that actually know what they are doing. If someone "good" starts up a business, that's life!! I did not ask for "limited entry" in the riverboat business when one in the highlands and one in Toms River opened up years after my 2 boats. Instead, I fought to keep and expand my business and do it "better" than the competition. That's why it is called "competition."

Perhaps people like yourself would rather see the government do your job for you and prevent you from having to run an operation better than the competition and instead eliminate your competition so you can stay stagnant.

I'll stick with good old fashioned competition thank you very much.

It must have been a while since you have gone fishing the state of nj waters offer excellent fishing for sea bass and flounder.
There you go again, talking about a business of which you have no understanding. Had you a clue of how things work you'd realize how stupid that statement really is.

There already is an option to fish in federal waters during the closed season.
No, there is an option that costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to BUY FISH and then land them, and currently the state of NJ DOES NOT ALLOW IT. NY does, NJ does not.

Also, the option of which you speak expires 12/31/09 and has a finite amount of quota available. Next years RSA auction hasn't happened yet, so again you speak of that which you do not understand.

You have the opportunity to use your leverage to make it happen for all charter and party boats in NJ.

Wrong again. Unless of course you suggest that all the party and charterboats in NJ could buy 100% of the 3% of the quota for sea bass and actually turn a profit (forget it, apparently a 5 year old, according to you, can understand it and since you obviously do not understand any of this what does that tell you?

Capt.TB, As far as the size limit being a inch shorter for p&c boats Captain sometimes you have to make things happen!
Yeah, OK, thanks for that Ken, I guess the fact that you would have to change the entire fisheries management system for the United States to allow states to simply change the regs in whatever manner they wished is not important:rolleyes:

How does a free register help your business? Why not support a NJ saltwater license and be involved in writing the law. Making sure it is advantages to your business. This is a once in a generation opportunity for your business.
How? Gee, hmmmmmmm lemme think here.

So if everyone has to pay for a license to fish in any other way EXCEPT on a partyboat, how does that help?

Hmmmmm, perhaps I need to go to the Kensdock school of business...
I hear it is a bustling business university......
http://www.hayesgalleries.com/imagesjohn/School%20House%204050135.jpg

[Kensdock]

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publication/econ/MA_NJTables_Econ.pdf 1.34 million nj recreational fishermen * 32 dollar saltwater license 42.8 million dollars raised annually

[Kensdock]

Yeah, only if I WANT TO SELL IT!!!!

However, if I want to EXPAND my business I would then have to purchase an already existing boat and permit, and/or be restricted in the ability to increase the size of my vessel (EVERY commercial permit has a limit on the increase in size and horsepower you are allowed...bet you did not know that one either!!)

I BUILD the boats I want, not buy what someone else wanted. With limited entry I do not have that ability.

Please stop trying to pretend you know more about the for-hire industry than my family that has been in it since the 1920's:rolleyes:

Helped huh? Sure, Danny Cohen is thrilled, but the dozens of guys that are now GONE with instead only 2 people who control nearly the ENTIRE clam industry in NJ (a -not a knock on Danny Cohen b- I did not say the entire, I said NEARLY the entire)

Ask the Scallop boats? You mean like all the day boats that have made a living off of scallops for the past 5 years who have now been eliminated from the industry? Like the two boats currently being scrapped at Yanks?

Sure Ken, I'll listen to you:rolleyes:


ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!! It's called free market enterprise and capitalism Ken, welcome to the United States!

Every time some hammerhead without a clue opens a partyboat business the people fish with him/her ONCE and then come running back to those that actually know what they are doing. If someone "good" starts up a business, that's life!! I did not ask for "limited entry" in the riverboat business when one in the highlands and one in Toms River opened up years after my 2 boats. Instead, I fought to keep and expand my business and do it "better" than the competition. That's why it is called "competition."

Perhaps people like yourself would rather see the government do your job for you and prevent you from having to run an operation better than the competition and instead eliminate your competition so you can stay stagnant.

I'll stick with good old fashioned competition thank you very much.


There you go again, talking about a business of which you have no understanding. Had you a clue of how things work you'd realize how stupid that statement really is.


No, there is an option that costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to BUY FISH and then land them, and currently the state of NJ DOES NOT ALLOW IT. NY does, NJ does not.

Also, the option of which you speak expires 12/31/09 and has a finite amount of quota available. Next years RSA auction hasn't happened yet, so again you speak of that which you do not understand.



Wrong again. Unless of course you suggest that all the party and charterboats in NJ could buy 100% of the 3% of the quota for sea bass and actually turn a profit (forget it, apparently a 5 year old, according to you, can understand it and since you obviously do not understand any of this what does that tell you?


Yeah, OK, thanks for that Ken, I guess the fact that you would have to change the entire fisheries management system for the United States to allow states to simply change the regs in whatever manner they wished is not important:rolleyes:


How? Gee, hmmmmmmm lemme think here.

So if everyone has to pay for a license to fish in any other way EXCEPT on a partyboat, how does that help?

Hmmmmm, perhaps I need to go to the Kensdock school of business...
I hear it is a bustling business university......
http://www.hayesgalleries.com/imagesjohn/School%20House%204050135.jpg
TB, You are a funny son *****
That is fine for the riverboat business. With the fishing business you are dealing with a limited resource.The industry is so regulated that they deserve limilted entry.The resource will only support so many boats.

[njdiver]

32 dollar saltwater license 42.8 million dollars raised annually
At that price it would be the most expensive saltwater license on the East Coast.

[CaptTB]

That is fine for the riverboat business. With the fishing business you are dealing with a limited resource.The industry is so regulated that they deserve limilted entry.The resource will only support so many boats.

You missed the point entirely, it was an example of free market enterprise vs. the government artificially stifling competition. Not a comparison of riverboat business to fishing business:rolleyes:

http://forums.the-dispatch.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/3301032188/inlineimg/Y/missed_the_point.jpg

[PBangler]

Everybody sing along!

On the twelfth day of Christmas my NJ saltwater license gave to me,

Twelve million in Federal stimulus funds
Eleven new scientists
Ten new fish & game wardens
Nine new administrative staff
Eight hundred new construction jobs
Seven new hatcheries
Six new patrol boats
Five hundred thousand cut from the general fund
Four million marine fisheries deficit
Three party boats to choose from
Two bag limit for fluke

and an increase in my license fee.

[dales529]

Kensdock,
You have had ample opportunity to voice your opinion and offer debate on this subject as is always the goal and purpose of the fishery management forum. Unfortunately you have missed the opportunity to back up any of your statements with credible resource, directly answer questions posed to your statements and/or provide facts to substantiate anything. Other than giving our readers a forum to dis-spel the myths and mis-information surrounding a SWL proposal I think the thread is going in circles and more importantly taking away from the real issues at hand. Its obvious the OPINION from the thread is OPPOSED to a SWL.

Thread will be closed at noon today so we can move forward to other issues.

Thanks all for your input

[CaptTB]

I think the thread is going in circles and more importantly taking away from the real issues at hand. Its obvious the OPINION from the thread is OPPOSED to a SWL.

Thread will be closed at noon today so we can move forward to other issues.

Thanks all for your input

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dui8IAY9uqg/SFsQcJouJuI/AAAAAAAACE8/nDiCixJz28Y/s400/Game+Over+Man.jpg

[Leif]

YEAH!!!!


Leif