Where's The Support?

[CaptTB]

Perused the CCA website today.

Where's their discussion and outrage about Sea Bass???

Where's their support of the suit??? (Granted, they filed their own Grouper lawsuit but even verbal support would be nice)

The have a chapter in NY, where's the CCA support of it's members and anglers???

Same place it has always been in my experience, somewhere other than here!

Perused the JCAA website.

Where's their support of the RFA and the lawsuit?????

There is mention of the closure of course, and I know JCAA will be there alongside UB and RFA fighting at the council and Commission level (thank you guys) but why not movement to help out it's members and other anglers? Where's the "unity" that I have been hearing so much about from various JCAA people? Or do I have to wait till Oct. 24th to find out what to do?

Perused the NJOA website. We've seen lots of posts on here by the "NJOA Chairman" about the Sea Bass closure and the NJOA rally, yet oddly there is not ONE SINGLE MENTION OF THE SEA BASS LAWSUIT anywhere to be found on the NJOA website.

There is no mention of ANYTHING related to our problem with the Sea Bass closure, but lots of talk about Trenton, NJ :rolleyes:

How will THEY be remembered?:rolleyes:

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about how "we will be remembered" and worry about ACTUALLY HELPING FIGHT THE PROBLEM.

Perhaps it's time to stop trying to drum up support for a rally that has absolutely nothing to do with the sea bass closure (and, stop using said closure to drum up support) and it's time to actually support those who are ALREADY FIGHTING THE FIGHT....WAITING FOR THE REST OF YOU TO CATCH UP!!

Or, maybe it's time to march on Trenton:rolleyes:

If my comments seem a bit harsh, they are meant to be.To steal and change a quote from a movie: " This is a time for serious people, and their 15 minutes is up." We need help NOW, not waiting a couple of weeks to hold rally's or a couple months to poll membership one at a time yadda yadda.

It's time to act, and act definitively, decisively and swiftly.

It's not just your hobby, it's not just your job, it's not just your family business, it's not just my family business (although it is my family business:D ) but it is ALL OF OUR HOBBIES AND ALL OF OUR BUSINESSES.

We are either in this together or we are finished, period.
The Sea Bass lawsuit is only the first shot in what must be a full broadside, otherwise this is all just a waste of time, and it's time for me to simply run my riverboats and work with computers.

Either way I'll still be standing, question is will anyone who fishes be able to see me or will they, like me, simply move on to something else?

[Capt. Lou]

None of this is very surprising to me, the divisive nature of our fishereies organizations, in a way it's been our downfall. Capt. TB is correct if they all step up we have a chance,if they don't, we all go down!!
More interesting to me is the across the board lack of important industry support, I don't mean the lip service kind, what I'm referring to is the glaring lack of monetary type. Yet we as consumers still purchase their products,perhaps a boycott may be in order to deliver the messsage of the gravity of this issue that could not only end sportfishing but bankrupt their companies as well.

[hammer4reel]

IT really amazes me that a thousand guys will bitch and moan about the regulations getting stuck down our throats, yet when someone tries to set up a trip to get some MUCH NEEDED support to the Org that ARE fighting for us it gets less than 20 people who want to attend WTF
guys better wake up soon or you might not even be able to fish for dogfish and sea robins

[PocketFisherman]

Are you talking about the SMS Tog Trip?

If so, honestly, not a lot of detail about it.

[dales529]

Are you talking about the SMS Tog Trip?

If so, honestly, not a lot of detail about it.


Thats just ONE of the many things. There was little interest in the SSFFF Fundraiser trip last June. Little activity at the trade shows, Little ACTION at the end of Fluke season. Some better results at The Sea Bass Closure but still mainly complaints about the closure. Some attention with the NEW FORUM but as a whole NOT the thousands of replies, calls, comments questions, posts required to get something done.

AS far as Steve's Tog trip. It takes a lot of time and energy to put "details" together, As he posted, first comes an interest level, small as it may be, then arranging a boat and picking a date etc. He then posted he is starting the process and there will be more to follow. So honestly see if he needs help and express your interest or not. There will be plenty of time to complain about the arrangements once posted.

[apmaurosr]

Perused the NJOA website. We've seen lots of posts on here by the "NJOA Chairman" about the Sea Bass closure and the NJOA rally, yet oddly there is not ONE SINGLE MENTION OF THE SEA BASS LAWSUIT anywhere to be found on the NJOA website.

Actually, TB, there's been a lot of posts about the rally - but only one thread about sea bass. The reason is, as I've explained in other threads, the R.O.O.R. rally is about a number of issues; from a failed bear policy to the denegration of our forests to the raiding of funds that are needed to keep DFW, F & G Council amd the Marine Fisheries Council "whole" and operating effectively. The instituitions that help to manage our access to the outdoors are being dismantled before our eyes. We need to send a message to Trenton that we will not accept this any longer.

Why you would choose one issue to try to belittle the work of the NJOA is a mystery to me but it's your typewriter - so pound away. The NJOA has a proven track record of results and we are focused on accomplishing a long list of outdoor issues - and that's where we focus our attention - even though we are an all volunteer organization.

Now, for those readers who have already seen my response on the subject of sea bass I apologize for repeating myself - but it apparently needs to be restated. Tom Fote, Commissioner to ASMFC, will speak at the rally about what people can do about the closure. Since the mission of the NJOA is limited, on the most part, to New Jersey issues (not federal) we are looking at the problem from the standpoint of what our GOVERNOR can do - not what the feds can do, I believe the RFA handles those aspects.

So, TB, since you singled me and my threads out to the members of NJFishing.com I thought I would take the time to respond personally. Just a piece of friendly advice though, when you want to point out that "unity" is a good thing (and I'm 100% with you) then you might not want to strong-arm those you want to unify - it seems counterproductive and it usually ends in creating divisiveness. It might also be, as with the NJOA, some organizations are taking a different apporach to the problem. But, this is only my opinion.

BTW, two weeks ago we arranged to have a SSSFF booth set up at our rally. I hope this is helpful to the cause.

So, I've had my say and I will now steer clear of this thread since the winds are blowing out of the "Nor' East."

Ant
Chariman
New Jersey outdoor Alliance
http://www.njoutdooralliance.org

[CaptTB]

screwed up post....see below

[CaptTB]

Actually, TB, there's been a lot of posts about the rally - but only one thread about sea bass. The reason is, as I've explained in other threads, the R.O.O.R. rally is about a number of issues; from a failed bear policy to the denegration of our forests to the raiding of funds that are needed to keep DFW, F & G Council amd the Marine Fisheries Council "whole" and operating effectively. The instituitions that help to manage our access to the outdoors are being dismantled before our eyes. We need to send a message to Trenton that we will not accept this any longer.

And those things were never questioned Anthony. What I did question was the use of the Sea Bass Closure, which was the HEADLINE/SUBJECT of the e-mail that was sent out by NJOA, yet attached to that e-mail was a flyer for the rally that said NOTHING about Sea Bass, was not related to ANYTHING involving the Sea Bass closure and had NOTHING to do with the issues that created the problem with Sea Bass in the first place (see my response to that original thread if you forgot any of the details)

Why you would choose one issue to try to belittle the work of the NJOA is a mystery to me but it's your typewriter - so pound away.

I have NEVER belittled the work of NJOA, and shame on you for trying to imply such a thing. Try reading and comprehending my posts, and see where I have CONTINUALLY talked about the good NJOA has done and wished you well on the success of your rally and you will see just how ridiculous that statement is.

Back to reality now....

The NJOA has a proven track record of results and we are focused on accomplishing a long list of outdoor issues - and that's where we focus our attention - even though we are an all volunteer organization.

Again, nothing to do with this thread and something that was NEVER questioned by me or anyone else. Of course, as to the DIRECT POINT OF MY POST, NJOA has STILL never had ANY involvement with the Sea Bass issue and continues to remain SILENT on the action ALREADY TAKING PLACE to deal with it. I will ask again...WHERE IS THE SUPPORT?? Remember folks, this action was started LAST WEEK to deal with Sea Bass……still no support from the groups I mentioned, even AFTER the “NJOA Chairman” has “spoken.”

Now, for those readers who have already seen my response on the subject of sea bass I apologize for repeating myself - but it apparently needs to be restated. Tom Fote, Commissioner to ASMFC, will speak at the rally about what people can do about the closure. Since the mission of the NJOA is limited, on the most part, to New Jersey issues (not federal) we are looking at the problem from the standpoint of what our GOVERNOR can do - not what the feds can do, I believe the RFA handles those aspects.

Which again has nothing to do with the actual issue of the closure (I have answered that already and, for those who have already seen my response I apologize for repeating myself but apparently it needs to be restated,) The Governor is not involved in the issue at the federal level and has no say at the federal level. Talking about NJOA, yes your focus has been on primarily the state and has indeed been successful to date on various issues. Of course, since we all now know this is a federal issue I will ask yet again where is the support of the action AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL for this issue?

If your group works within the state, why use the sea bass closure as the HEADLINE for your rally for a group that does not work at the federal level???

I know the answer already, but apparently the question bears repeating.

So, TB, since you singled me and my threads out to the members of NJFishing.com I thought I would take the time to respond personally. Just a piece of friendly advice though, when you want to point out that "unity" is a good thing (and I'm 100% with you) then you might not want to strong-arm those you want to unify - it seems counterproductive and it usually ends in creating divisiveness.

Since I mentioned three different groups who have remained silent on this issue, I hardly singled you out, but if you feel that uncomfortable with your position that you have to be defensive then perhaps hitting that nerve served it’s purpose. Since those other groups do not post on njfishing.com and you do and sign your posts with your name, it would hardly be appropriate to question posts from anyone else and would be completely appropriate to question YOU. :rolleyes:

Also, if you call questioning where groups who have remained silent on an issue that is destroying businesses in the very state those groups are from “strong arming””, then perhaps you need to take a step back from being in the public eye. It’s just a piece of friendly advice from someone who has been dealing with these types of things for the past two decades Anthony. Becoming defensive and lashing out at people with ridiculous terms like “belittle” which is false and “strong arming”, which is ever so slightly (yeah) an over-reaction, is a great way to divert the topic at hand, but does not do anything to answer the question.

It might also be, as with the NJOA, some organizations are taking a different apporach to the problem. But, this is only my opinion.

And therein is part of the problem. Let’s not unify on an issue, let’s all continue to ignore the first action taken by the primary groups involved and see how “we” can spin this to “our” advantage by “taking a different approach” to the problem.

More of the same old same old Anthony, and THAT is why I posted my post and said what I said.It comes from experience dealing with the various groups in recreational fisheries.

Then again, when a group’s chairman publicly states that it is focused on an arena which is NOT where the problem in question lies, but uses that problem to drum up support for a rally that is not directly related to the issue, then perhaps they need to be questioned.

Perhaps, my comments come from decades of watching groups latch on to issues to further their own agenda and never actually do anything to help the issue itself. Hence the reason I QUESTIONED where the support for ONGOING action was from the three groups I mentioned. Since when is questioning something “strong arming”??

Should we not question people’s actions and sit back quietly? Should we simply let questionable actions such as the original e-mail touting the sea bass closure as a call to arms for a rally that made no mention of anything other than what “Trenton” was doing (which has NOTHING to do with the sea bass closure) and sleep safe knowing “things are being handled”?

Sorry Anthony, but experience has shown many of us that sitting back and not questioning the actions of those who supposedly “speak for” or ”support” us is NOT the way to get things done.

I would suggest instead of being defensive and talking about things NOT related to the issue that you might want to consider actually supporting the actions of those already fighting the fight. Even if it might mean a few less people at your rally. That’s just some friendly advice from someone who’s been doing this for awhile, but that’s just my opinion.

BTW, two weeks ago we arranged to have a SSSFF booth set up at our rally. I hope this is helpful to the cause.

Thanks, and I’m sure the guys at SSFFF appreciate the offer and ANY help will help “the cause,” but as you have done already in this post, you have made reference to something that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND OR MY ORIGINAL POST.

Save the SUMMER FLOUNDER Fishery Fund has NOTHING to do with a SEA BASS closure, nor does NJOA offering a booth/table space to SSFFF have ANYTHING to do with this topic. It was an extremely nice offer to that group, I hope they have someone to man the table and take NJOA up on it's offer. It does divert attention from NJOA support (or lack thereof) of fighting a SEA BASS closure, but it does NOT have anything to do with me, my post or the topic at hand.

I see you’ve learned one thing from dealing with Trenton…….how to change the subject. :rolleyes:

So, I've had my say and I will now steer clear of this thread since the winds are blowing out of the "Nor' East."

I stand corrected, you’ve learned TWO things from dealing with Trenton. The second is how to avoid having to answer the questions by “signing off” before anyone has a chance to respond.

[Leif]

Points taken on both sides. Not productive though. Let's focus on the issue...

Protect the ability to continue to fish recreationally and run successful businesses associated with the fisheries in question while maintaining a sustainable fishery.

What can we do to help that is the question.

Give us a list of what we can do to help this effort.


Leif

[CaptTB]

What can we do to help that is the question.

Give us a list of what we can do to help this effort.


Leif

In the very short term, support the RFA, United Boatmen, MTA, etc. in their lawsuit against the closure and on the larger front what it represents to ALL fishermen, not just those who fish for Sea Bass.

In the longer term, prepare for the massive battle that must take place in D.C.

Without a fundamental change in the MSA we are finished. If we cannot successfully show our Congressmen and Senators the disaster that is the re-authorized Magnuson-Stevens Act and the Catastrophe that disaster will become if the issues aren't dealt with (specifically the rigid re-building time-frames from the SFA, the unprecedented authority without oversight of the SSC and the ACLs and AMs from the recent re-authorization) then we
are truly screwed.

Closer to home, the support of (are you listening Anthony?) ALL the groups from NJ as well as our state legislators sending their support of our cause to D.C. and our FEDERAL Legislators, since THEY are the ones who currently hold our collective fates in their hands.

[CaptTB]

I'd like to add something:

While "unity" is a word that has been tossed around a lot, and quite a lot lately, there is one thing I have seen before, many many times before, and am seeing again already.

Groups taking "other approaches" to dealing with the same problem.

THAT my friends is NOT unity!

What is, however, is groups SUPPORTING the "other approaches" of those fighting a given battle. No one said there was only one way to skin this cat, but when EACH GROUP takes their own path WITHOUT supporting others fighting the same fight it is more of the SAME OLD SAME OLD we have seen for years in recreational fisheries.

If different groups have different spheres of influence or different areas of expertise then lets SUPPORT THE ACTIONS of those groups while SIMULTANEOUSLY working in our own way to achieve the same goal!!

To say "we are taking a different approach" may mean you or he or she is working on the issue, but not in a UNIFIED WAY!

Work on the problem as you see fit and in a way you think YOU can best deal with the issue at hand. But, why do that WITHOUT supporting others working on the same issue?

I never questioned anyone's approach to dealing with this issue since to date, no one else has even offered a "different approach" to dealing with it! What I DID DO is question the LACK of support from others of those already fighting this fight and the efforts they are making, the measures they have already taken.

Together we stand, divided we FAIL.

Enough said.

[Got Em On]

Donation to RFA Seabass Fund sent yesterday. Hope others follow suit.