A real winter?

[Detour66]

So far it looks like we will be having something that resembles a winter that we haven't seen in awhile. Although I am not a fan of the cold at this point I am hoping it brings us some good inshore spring fishing for cod, ling, snowshoe flounder,small pollack, whiting and boston macks. It would be nice. Plus on the FW side some ice fishing. We will see! Stay warm and Happy New Year!

[togzilla]

Let's hope so. Already hit the hard water once back on the Dec. 27th and plan to do more now that we have plenty of safe ice!

[bulletbob]

I dunno .. Not sure I agree with your theory.. Most of the species you listed have preferred water temp in the mid 40' to low 50's.. All cold water species.. the water temp dropping down into say the upper 30's for a couple months isn't going to drive new fish into the area.. Years go when the ocean was full of Whiting/Ling/Flounder Mackerel, when the water temp in mid winter would drop under 40 degrees, the Ling/Whiting bite inshore got slower. I think the fish simply went further offshore out of reach in those days for most party boats. Back in the 70's I recall reading in NJ Fisherman, that 39 degrees was the "cut off point'. Once it got lower than 39 degrees, winter fishing slowed down.. Maybe , maybe not.. One thing I am sure of- a cold hard winter with very low water temps in winter is not going to magically bring in fish that simply don't exist any more come spring.. I think the reason we no longer have a good winter/early spring fishery is because the fish were killed and eaten. .. long ago... Colder water won't bring fish in that just aren't there any longer... Thats kind of blaming "climate change", and I won't comment on that debacle one way or another.

Yes, it might help winter ice fishermen, but personally, in hard hit lakes I welcome warm winters so that ice fishermen can't clean the fish out.. Get 50-60 fishermen out on a small lake every weekend day all winter, and they can put a big dent in populations of Panfish... Fish get hit harder every year, with ever improving access, baits,lures and electronics by more and more very efficient anglers, and could use a break once in a while...

[Duffman]

What the hell is a Boston Mack? :p

[bulletbob]

What the hell is a Boston Mack? :p

Plain old Atlantic Mackerel.. back in the day, a lot of NJ party boat anglers called them Boston Mackerel, or Boston Macks... These days i don't see that term used very often, and typically its old timers like me that might use it these days... bob

[Gerry Zagorski]

Navesink is frozen over and certain parts of the Shrewsbury are too. I can remember some time ago when it froze solid from the tip of Sandy Hook all the way over to the end of the Earle Weapons Peer..

This from Kevin/ Islander at Leonardo State Marina a day or two ago...

[Ol Pedro]

What the hell is a Boston Mack? :p

That's my wife's Uncle .

[Duffman]

Plain old Atlantic Mackerel.. back in the day, a lot of NJ party boat anglers called them Boston Mackerel, or Boston Macks... These :D:Ddays i don't see that term used very often, and typically its old timers like me that might use it these days... bob

LMAO. Yes Bob I know, just being facetious. You ain’t the only old timer here :D

[AndyS]

Whiting, yes, the old magic hours trips on the Norma K III back in the 70's.

[Pennsy Guy]

I always thought a Boston Mack was a larger mackerel, at least that's what we called them, not the smaller ones--they were just mackerel (to be scorned when catching them). Always wanting the Bostons. Damn, I miss those runs of yesteryear.

[bulletbob]

I always thought a Boston Mack was a larger mackerel, at least that's what we called them, not the smaller ones--they were just mackerel (to be scorned when catching them). Always wanting the Bostons. Damn, I miss those runs of yesteryear.

Thats actually correct.. I still think they were plain old Atlantics, not a separate species, but on occasion, head boats would get into schools of big fat Mackerel, and call them Bostons. Other times we would get tons of small skinny macks that everyone called "tinkers" but true tinkers are actually just another name for chub mackerel, which are NOT what we caught in early spring.. I believe they were all the same fish just different names based on size...

[Dclark2]

How about whiting fishing off the ling branch pier ?? When I was young that was the coldest place on earth.....

[dales529]

Thats actually correct.. I still think they were plain old Atlantics, not a separate species, but on occasion, head boats would get into schools of big fat Mackerel, and call them Bostons. Other times we would get tons of small skinny macks that everyone called "tinkers" but true tinkers are actually just another name for chub mackerel, which are NOT what we caught in early spring.. I believe they were all the same fish just different names based on size...

I think the difference is we have been having runs of "chub mackeral" lately and the hope is that the "Atlantic / Boston Macks may return

[Gerry Zagorski]

Man, we'er old but old guys rule!!

[NJ219bands]

Back in the olden days, I caught 55 Boston mackerel on the Manasquan Inlet north jetty in one afternoon. Also caught a 4.5 lb hake, pollack, whiting, ling, hickory shad and sundials in cold water. I agree that most fish 🐟 were caught, killed and eaten. The past few years I saw sea robins on stringers on the jetty. Fishing 🎣 on the jetty is going to get worse each year. I only caught 4 striped bass in 59 trips to the inlet last year.

[bulletbob]

55 macks off the inlet rocks??.. yikes, quite an accomplishment. I don't imagine we'll see that sort of thing again in our lifetime, but who knows?.. we can hope. I can see this thread is inhabited mostly by the geezer brigade so I feel right at home! Lots of younger guys don't realize that in "our day" fishing never ended. There were lots of fish to be caught all year round, even for those that were shore bound.. I can recall years when Raritan bay froze all the way across, and the head boats sometimes couldn't even sail.. I also seem to remember when one of the bigger more powerful metal hull boats broke ice out into the bay and other boats followed it out... So cold water/weather didn't put a halt to fishing... No fish available is what hinders winter fishing inshore these days!

I recall years in mid winter, when the sun would shine and temps warm up for a few days, and guys could cast from shore with sea worms or clams and catch a bunch of flounder... they could actually feel the water temps rise , would respond to the sunshine it seemed, and start to hit. Then, temps would drop again, clouds and snow returned, and the flounder would go back in the mud until spring... I can still see those early spring flounder, still with the mud that covered them all winter visible on their tails and bellies ..... Maybe we'll see those days again.... but i won't hold my breath while we wait...bob

[Tackle guy]

Plenty of places to buy that small white box of worms.flounder were plentiful.

[Jigman13]

Some of those worms boxes are $25+ and Raritan Bay is basically empty of flounder. It really wasn't that long ago when the shoals in the back were stacked with them.

Sandy changed a lot. Chemical run offs too. Who knows. Maybe the complete lack of pressure in the Raritan will spark some sort of rebound. There's no shortage of mussels and worms back there---sand, blood and tape. Not to mention prolific grass shrimp in some areas.

[Detour66]

It will never be like it was years ago but hopefully we might catch "some" . It does happen every year if you know where to go or just get lucky! And the colder the winter the better chance of them moving south if it stays cold for any decent amount of time. Many of the species I mentioned are not all that far away from us in the east end of L.I! Wishful thinking..yes! We can only try! Tight lines all!

[hammer4reel]

Some of those worms boxes are $25+ and Raritan Bay is basically empty of flounder. It really wasn't that long ago when the shoals in the back were stacked with them.

Sandy changed a lot. Chemical run offs too. Who knows. Maybe the complete lack of pressure in the Raritan will spark some sort of rebound. There's no shortage of mussels and worms back there---sand, blood and tape. Not to mention prolific grass shrimp in some areas.

Been over 15 years since the drop to 2 fish .
Was plenty of flounder there the seasons before .

IMO could actually be good and no one will know .
Not many guys buying a hundred bucks worth of worms , and 50 bucks worth of chum to catch 2 fish .
Crazy how expensive the bait now is to fish for them .

Amount of pressure on them from recreational fisherman is probably 2% of what it used to be .

.

[Duffman]

The flatties are there. Just the amount of guys targeting them is close to zero.

[bulletbob]

I dunno, you guys live there and I don't, but I disagree 100% with the concept that the fish are actually there and just aren't being exploited... If the fish were there in any numbers, they would be poached unceasingly, nd there would be NO doubt there were harvestable numbers of flounder in the bay.. The "bait is too expensive" thing is also incorrect.. Flounder hit just fine on a small glob of mussel or soft clam snot.. Just as good as sandworms.. back in the day, worms were expensive too, so we used mussels and clams and did great with gigantic bay flounder every spring and fall.. If there flounder around in any numbers believe me fishermen would know... Look, I get where you guys are coming from.. You never really know until you try.. For years, I have said that some guys should go out in the bay on mid summer nights using a 3x3 rig with a whole big sandworm, and a red plastic or Gulp worm on the same hook and drift the channels for weakfish... might be more there than anyone thought.. Still, I feel if these fish were there in fair numbers, word would get out.. quickly!!...... bob

[Duffman]

I dunno, you guys live there and I don't, but I disagree 100% with the concept that the fish are actually there and just aren't being exploited... If the fish were there in any numbers, they would be poached unceasingly, nd there would be NO doubt there were harvestable numbers of flounder in the bay.. The "bait is too expensive" thing is also incorrect.. Flounder hit just fine on a small glob of mussel or soft clam snot.. Just as good as sandworms.. back in the day, worms were expensive too, so we used mussels and clams and did great with gigantic bay flounder every spring and fall.. If there flounder around in any numbers believe me fishermen would know... Look, I get where you guys are coming from.. You never really know until you try.. For years, I have said that some guys should go out in the bay on mid summer nights using a 3x3 rig with a whole big sandworm, and a red plastic or Gulp worm on the same hook and drift the channels for weakfish... might be more there than anyone thought.. Still, I feel if these fish were there in fair numbers, word would get out.. quickly!!...... bob

Nope. You are wrong. They are there. In numbers like the old days? Hell no. But enough to make it interesting and bring home a meal. It’s just that the very few that are fishing for them aren’t blabbing about it on wastebook and fishing forums.

[hammer4reel]

I dunno, you guys live there and I don't, but I disagree 100% with the concept that the fish are actually there and just aren't being exploited... If the fish were there in any numbers, they would be poached unceasingly, nd there would be NO doubt there were harvestable numbers of flounder in the bay.. The "bait is too expensive" thing is also incorrect.. Flounder hit just fine on a small glob of mussel or soft clam snot.. Just as good as sandworms.. back in the day, worms were expensive too, so we used mussels and clams and did great with gigantic bay flounder every spring and fall.. If there flounder around in any numbers believe me fishermen would know... Look, I get where you guys are coming from.. You never really know until you try.. For years, I have said that some guys should go out in the bay on mid summer nights using a 3x3 rig with a whole big sandworm, and a red plastic or Gulp worm on the same hook and drift the channels for weakfish... might be more there than anyone thought.. Still, I feel if these fish were there in fair numbers, word would get out.. quickly!!...... bob

To catch lots of flounder you chum ALOT.
It’s not only the price of sand worms .
Chum logs , clams etc make it a silly investment to go catch 2 fish a guy .
Go out with 6 guys , catch a dozen fish isn’t worth the price of admission .
When you can spend less money and catch other stuff .

Guys run right over them to get into a world class striper fishery .

Shark river used to be so much fun also early spring . It’s now about 95% filled in with parking lot dust .

As said , the few guys still fishing for them don’t talk about it .

[bulletbob]

To catch lots of flounder you chum ALOT.
It’s not only the price of sand worms .
Chum logs , clams etc make it a silly investment to go catch 2 fish a guy .
Go out with 6 guys , catch a dozen fish isn’t worth the price of admission .
When you can spend less money and catch other stuff .

Guys run right over them to get into a world class striper fishery .

Shark river used to be so much fun also early spring . It’s now about 95% filled in with parking lot dust .

As said , the few guys still fishing for them don’t talk about it .

We used to catch so many flounder in the bay it was ridiculous, and never once used chum logs.. For years we would simply drift and when we started catching a few would bat a couple mussels over side and anchor up.. LOTS of days we never needed to anchor, OR chum.. Just needed a small bucket of mussels we scraped off a pilings for hook bait,, and maybe a couple razor clams from the mud at low tide.. This was in the 80's.... I can remember catching giant winter flounder in July and august while drifting sandworms for weaks, they were so numerous.. Of course the flounder aren't extinct, but in my opinion if there was worthwhile fishing for them, even with the 2 fish limit,there would be some guys targeting them and the word would get out at some point,,, If it has to be kept secret, I dunno, I have my doubts, but I'll defer to those that still live there.. I lived right on the bay, but that was a long time ago... bob

[bigfishy]

We used to catch so many flounder in the bay it was ridiculous, and never once used chum logs.. For years we would simply drift and when we started catching a few would bat a couple mussels over side and anchor up.. LOTS of days we never needed to anchor, OR chum.. Just needed a small bucket of mussels we scraped off a pilings for hook bait,, and maybe a couple razor clams from the mud at low tide.. This was in the 80's.... I can remember catching giant winter flounder in July and august while drifting sandworms for weaks, they were so numerous.. Of course the flounder aren't extinct, but in my opinion if there was worthwhile fishing for them, even with the 2 fish limit,there would be some guys targeting them and the word would get out at some point,,, If it has to be kept secret, I dunno, I have my doubts, but I'll defer to those that still live there.. I lived right on the bay, but that was a long time ago... bob

You should start a weekly or monthly blog...it's clear that you have a wealth of knowledge from the olden days...why not share it with the world?

[baseballman]

No one here is going to like this answer at all...but its not lost on me that all of the fish mentioned here - Winter Flounder, Weakfish, etc. - are found in more plentiful numbers hundreds of miles north of here. Climate Change could easily be the reason why these winter fisheries are gone.

With that said - I am a bit surprise there isn't a single winter fishery beyond blackfish and ling (which seem to be around in much better #s this winter) but angler participation could certainly be a reason.

I am also surprised NJ anglers seem to find Weakfish and Winter Flounder at the offshore wrecks in the Spring and Fall respectively...maybe they don't leave.

[1captainron]

I think the difference is we have been having runs of "chub mackeral" lately and the hope is that the "Atlantic / Boston Macks may return

The Spanish took them all in the 70's. Another forage fish destroyed. :mad:

[bulletbob]

The Spanish took them all in the 70's. Another forage fish destroyed. :mad:

Capt Ron.. I wonder if you can elaborate a bit on this.. I didn't know there were boats from Spain coming over to this side of the Atlantic.. Big factory/processing ships maybe? I thought it was mostly Russia,[soviet union at that time], china, etc... first time I heard this.. I personally thought it was more due to the worldwide sushi/sashimi/raw fish craze that started a few decades ago, and mackerel became much in demand.. Interesting.... bob