Dec 16th ASMFC Striper Meeting Recap

[Gerry Zagorski]

Some notes on today's ASMFC Striped Bass Meeting.

WARNING…. This is a lengthy post so if you want to get to the bottom line you can skip down to the bottom but I feel it’s important for everyone to take some time and read the details so you can understand why and how these decisions were made and how they were influenced.

This is my understanding of where things are as of now and there will be more future meetings to make final decisions, get the state and regions inputs and seek public comments.

I first have to say the Commission and staff did a terrific job running the meeting. Number of public attendance varied but looked like it settled in around 560 participants on the webinar.

They spent a good amount of time reviewing the data and some good news is based on the most recent updated information, the 2024 harvest estimates came down with the remainder of the 2024 data to come. As a result of that news and other considerations the Committee is now suggesting a 9% instead of the original 14% recreational harvest reduction.

I was particularly thrilled to see how much time and consideration was given to over 4000 public comments. Seems to me that these meetings have become a lot more transparent. I think this is due in large part to these meetings being done via webinar. It allows for more public access, participation and involvement all of which leads to the Committee taking more into account the will of the people.

It was great to see that NJ came out in numbers in terms of comments stating opposition to closings in Nov and December since it was our peak season. I think we were the only state that made a separate line item in public comments slides so great job submitting your comments! I think we got our point across about the inequity of these closures since the original proposals had the same dates in fisheries throughout a region while the local fisheries vary with seasonality.

As a result it now sounds like there is going to be a path for flexibility and individual states and regions can provide input on what measures they would take to achieve the reduction pending the Commission's approval. This is how it should be because the closer decisions are made to the people they affect the better and once again, the Committee took the public comments into consideration.

Of the public comments made 2653 supported taking some type of reduction while 517 supported no action being taken so this sent a clear message to the Committee that most are committed to protect this important resource.

There were a lot of lively discussions about how hurried these decisions are being made because of the tight timelines. The major concerns being how quickly the data had to be reviewed and interpreted and assumptions applied and not knowing what the results of the recent emergency action was having on the fishery.

I am most proud of our own Adam Nowalsky, one of NJs representatives on the ASFMC Striped Bass Board. He was very vocal in supporting the recreational interests and was opposed to some of the motions being made which would have reduced the reductions on the commercial side. I’ve known Adam for 25 plus years now. I always appreciated his candor, educating me on the fisheries and how the management process works. Most importantly his dedication and energy to serve us and balancing our interests with the state of the fisheries.

Adam was also the one out of 65 ASFMC Striped Bass board members that had the courage, intellect, respect and influence to introduce and have the board pass an addendum to postpone these important decisions. This gives the time needed to do a better job analyzing the data and be able to understand the effects of the recent emergency measures taken earlier in 2024. It also takes the time to make a more informed decision going forward rather than the knee jerk reactions we're used to...

Job well done Adam! You are one of the shining lights that combines intellect with critical thinking and reason into the process. Thank you for your service and dedication!

For those of you who don’t like to read and skipped to the bottom, as it is now, our regs will remain the same through 2025. Any changes will be decided in December of 2025 when which will take effect in 2026 once all this settles in.

Shew.... That was a mouthful and time to get into Chirstmas mode!

[AndyS]

:)

[Duffman]

So let me get this straight…….the reduction went from 14% to 9%. 2 seperate meetings, one lasting 4 hours, along with 4000 public responses AND the final result was NOTHING was changed?

What am I missing here?

[hammer4reel]

So let me get this straight…….the reduction went from 14% to 9%. 2 seperate meetings, one lasting 4 hours, along with 4000 public responses AND the final result was NOTHING was changed?

What am I missing here?


Maybe someone had to explain how release mortality went from 9 percent to 39% in what was actually held against us in the same document they presented .

In Order for a third of our quota to be from released bass , you would have had to CR 4 times as many fish as what was kept

[Gerry Zagorski]

So let me get this straight…….the reduction went from 14% to 9%. 2 seperate meetings, one lasting 4 hours, along with 4000 public responses AND the final result was NOTHING was changed?

What am I missing here?

The regulation changes along with the data will be reviewed in 2025 for implementation in 2026.

Yes the meetings are long but this is something you don’t want to rush through. We also don’t want the ASMFC making last minute knee jerk, unilateral decisions in a vacuum. Now that the regions and states have been given some flexibility on how and when they that want to achieve their reductions, that’s going to take time as well.

[1captainron]

I just put the Pirate flag order on hold till next year.......

[Broad Bill]

Maybe someone had to explain how release mortality went from 9 percent to 39% in what was actually held against us in the same document they presented .

In Order for a third of our quota to be from released bass , you would have had to CR 4 times as many fish as what was kept

Dan you're right on the money with your comments. If you look at the 2024 stock assessment there was just shy of 6 million fish making up the entire recreational and commercial catch which captures both harvest and discard mortality. About 2.4 million of those fish are categorized as recreational catch and release mortality. The last year, our recreational statistics are almost 50/50 harvest and discard mortality which there's simply no data or reason to support that conclusion. If there were 2.4 million stripers killed from catch and release, we'd have striped bass washing ashore all over our beaches and you'd see floaters up and down the coast which is simply not the case. The more we address prudent fishing with circle hooks and the discontinuance of treble hooks using bait, catch and release percentages have actually increased. I'd love to have one person from the Northeast Fisheries Science Center "NEFSC" or National Marine Fishery Service "NMFS" explain how they arrived at discard mortality as they truly have no clue at all. It's a number they arbitrarily make up to restrict recreational catch.

[AndyS]

Chesapeake bay is a garbage dump.

https://www.facebook.com/BayLifeBrokerage

[dales529]

Maybe someone had to explain how release mortality went from 9 percent to 39% in what was actually held against us in the same document they presented .

In Order for a third of our quota to be from released bass , you would have had to CR 4 times as many fish as what was kept

Agreed and been saying the same thing on Fluke for years, proposed mortality rates are overinflated and not the rule but an exception of the rule.

[Broad Bill]

Posted a reply earlier and deleted it so as to not include names. Why would any of us believe ASMFC, MAMFC or the State of Virginia will do anything to change a problem they themselves created causing a 42% decline in the summer flounder quota for 2024 and 2025 and a potential moratorium in the striper fishery.

We've all worked throughout our lives. How many chances does an employee, executive or in this case agency or members get before realizing the problem is the agencies and members themselves. Government is the only institution where you actually get recognized and promoted for failing.

Everyone of these institutions are as corrupt as they get and now we're expected to applaud the same people for kicking the proverbial can down the street for yet again another two years before addressing the problem and implementing remedial measures before it's too late. And what happens over that two year window with the unabated exploitation of menhaden in the Chesapeake by Cooke Inc. while corrupt Virginia politicians and businesses get filthy rich.

Yesterday's ruling, in my opinion, is symptomatic of the systemic failure of the process, completely ignored the problems facing the fishery and constitutes business as usual which all but guarantees continued failure within these stocks. All lip service and no substantive action, no different than the BS we've endured the last twenty or more years. The powers to be are deferring the problem so in 2026 we'll be looking at a full season closure as opposed to two months and forget about summer flounder because all these younger age class fish we saw this year won't be making an appearance next year as they're being killed by year round offshore commercial operations throughout the winter.

I'd refrain from accolades to any individual whose been involved for years in the decision making process causing these catastrophic problems until changes are made to actually protect and grow these fisheries. You want to fix the striper fishery, focus your efforts on managing the attached graph and stop harvesting the big female breeders. You want to fix the summer flounder problem, protect the fall spawn and provide protection to the spawning stock. Stop making decisions which favor the commercial sector and start making decisions which benefit the stock.

[Broad Bill]

Agreed and been saying the same thing on Fluke for years, proposed mortality rates are overinflated and not the rule but an exception of the rule.

We all know the powers to be have absolutely no idea what fishing mortality rates are. We also know no fishery will last by targeting the breeding stock, commercial operations killing millions of juvenile fish in the process and utter incompetence by the Commission and Committee not protecting the primary spawn while the biomass is migration offshore in the fall and most vulnerable to commercial netting. There's no accountability whatsoever in this process which means we should all expect the same results going forward.

[Gerry Zagorski]

You either learn to how to work inside the machine to influence it and make a difference or work outside it and make peripheral noise here or other places to no avail. There are times for both.

I've been on both sides of this and can say without a doubt working inside the machine although sometimes frustrating and can wear you out, has gotten more results then trying to make changes outside of it.

That's my perspective.. Your mileage based on your perspective, circumstances, your willingness for patience and comprise may vary.

It's like any relationship. I've had my moments of throwing in the towel since things did not go my way but this is a marathon and not a sprint..

Merry Christmas and stay thirsty my friends...

[bunker dunker]

why is it so hard????,just use more common sense.you kill the breeders,you have no offspring.you take all the forage you have no fish.you have open season during spawning you have poor spawning.why do we need graphs and data when
the answers are right in front of us.i guess it just me,FOUR!!!!

[Broad Bill]

While I agree a seat at the table gets you in the game, what a person does with that seat is what matters most. I heard that speech from Adam 7 years ago, I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. How many years should someone be given before their presence makes a difference, 20 years?

Patience you say, the recreational sector has been waiting patiently for over 20 years for something to break in these fisheries that would provide future benefits for the decades of sacrifices we've all made. What have those benefits been because people don't see any and they don't see any because there haven't been any.

Adam opposed regulations which would have reduced commercial harvest, why would he do that as commercial operations are at the heart of every fisheries problems. Recall the post that Massachusetts allows their commercial quota filled with primarily female breeders 36" and greater, why is that allowed as historically low recruitment is one of the primary problems threatening the stocks future.

People are tired of political rhetoric and BS and the two fisheries you're giving a member credit for fighting for the recreational sector are not only in the shitter, they're in the shitter on their watch while the recreational share of those stocks has been slashed over the years. Wait two years for more data and time to analyze that data, that's all we've been doing since MSA was adopted in 1976. Lack of data isn't the problem, ignoring the massive amounts of data already available is. Let me take you back 7 years when we met for dinner in Brielle with Jim Hutchinson Jr., Greg Hueth, Dave Arbeitman, Nick Cicero and a few other key recreational players to review the power point presentation I put together for the RFA. It was filled with data and based on massive amounts of research, and that was 7 - 8 years ago. Jim Donofrio categorized the presentation as "The best representation of the stock and data he has ever seen". So much so it was published in RFA's Making Waves in the Spring 2017 edition and subsequently in the Fisherman Magazine. Where did it go from there? Adam wouldn't touch it and ultimately others because it rocked the boat with and challenged status quo management by NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC personal agendas, politics in other words. Corrupt political institutions don't get better with patience, they become more corrupt.

Dales529, you've said to me no less than a few dozen times, "no one says your work is wrong, they simply don't want to admit its right because by default they'd be admitting their policy decisions over the last 2-3 decades have been wrong". As Capt. Ron said, time to get the pirate flags ordered because if we're not willing to fight for our share of a public resource, we will lose these resources forever and I'm &*^%$%! tired of listening to the same BS over and over again as should everyone else.

Gerry remember when you walked up to the podium in Galloway in 2017 / 2018 and said "Enough is Enough", why almost eight years later are you praising anyone involved with the disastrous results management has delivered since. ASMFC and MAFMC should clean house as they've been completely compromised in their values and until that happens nothing will change. Recruitment has hit 50 year lows, seasonal closures are imminent so let's wait two more years before addressing the problem.......brilliant management strategy!

[Broad Bill]

why is it so hard????,just use more common sense.you kill the breeders,you have no offspring.you take all the forage you have no fish.you have open season during spawning you have poor spawning.why do we need graphs and data when
the answers are right in front of us.i guess it just me,FOUR!!!!

BD, you nailed it! This isn't complicated and we certainly don't need more data or time. Corrupt states like VA., businesses, graft, corrupt politicians and misguided corrupt agencies is what we need less of and I don't see that happening in our lifetime. Gerry, Adam I'm sure is a good friend of yours but he's part of the process which has miserably failed the recreational sector and stock management. The facts and declines in both stocks, recreational allocations and restrictions to access couldn't be any more clear in that regard.

[AndyS]

Connecticut State Environmental Conservation Police
·
On Tuesday December 17, 2024 two EnCon officers and K9 Luna were patrolling the Housatonic River for striped bass poaching activity. Officers located a group of six anglers fishing. As the officers watched, they observed an angler climb the riverbank, climb over the guard rail, run across the road, and enter a steep wooded hill side on the opposite side of the road, disappearing into the woods. The angler appeared to be carrying something heavy. After a few minutes the angler returned to the riverbank empty handed and continued to fish. Contact was made with the anglers, two had no fishing license. They claimed to have caught and retained no striped bass. K9 Luna was deployed on leash along the roadside and requested to search the wooded hill side. She located four separate bags of striped bass each buried in the ground and covered with leaves, the bags spanned a 75 yard long stretch of roadside. In total there were 34 striped bass, all ranging from 12.5” to 25” in length, in violation of the striped bass slot limit which is 28” to 31”. The anglers had 64 striped bass violations and two license violations. They were issued fines totaling $4,974.00. All fish were seized and donated to a non-profit wildlife rehabber.
Connecticut Fish and Wildlife.

[bunker dunker]

so we have finally graduated to arguing with common sense,we really have come a long way.

[Broad Bill]

so we have finally graduated to arguing with common sense, we really have come a long way.

BD I've been campaigning on behalf of the recreational sector with common sense, facts and a tremendous amount of research for the better part of eight years. I've put my money where my mouth is and reached out countless times to all the corrupt organizations mentioned in these threads. The problem is no one gives a shit and when push comes to shove the sector always backs down. We are our own worst enemies and if changes aren't made somewhere in this dysfunctional process, we will eventually lose this legacy pastime of ours, at least the salt water component.

[bunker dunker]

Bill,it as easy as this"Money talks and bs walks".as long as the wheels keep getting greased,then we get what we get.it is funny though,that we live in a country that is suppose to be ruled by and for the people but is ruled by the wine,dine and pocket lined.

[Broad Bill]

Bill, it as easy as this "Money talks and bs walks".as long as the wheels keep getting greased, then we get what we get.it is funny though, that we live in a country that is suppose to be ruled by and for the people but is ruled by the wine, dine and pocket lined.

BD sad but very true. Doesn't mean there's not a way to even the playing field, I just don't know what it is anymore in the absence of a lawsuit against the federal government and these corrupt agencies which is expensive and no small task.

What I do know is we can't continue abusing these resources and expect them to be around for generations to come and enjoy both commercially and recreationally. We've done it for decades if not centuries so it can be done. We'd all be losing something very precious if these stocks disappear.

Commercial and recreational interests can co-exist and flourish but not the way these stocks are being managed currently. If decisions don't start being made with the health of the stock in mind and a long-term lens, I'm very concerned as I think most of us are we're causing irreparable harm to the future of many of these stocks. Right now we have the fox guarding the chicken coop, that has to change. All these groups are acting on behalf of their own best interests and not the best interests of stocks first and both the commercial and recreational sector second.

The problem as you said is money talks, bullshit walks and there's too much money involved in this multi hundred million dollar industry and too many greedy bastards involved in this process to think they'll ever start making decisions to actually manage these stocks for the long-term as opposed to lining their own pockets. That's exactly why I believe litigation in some form is the only hope for the future.

[bunker dunker]

recreational fishing= 2.6 billion{rough figure}
commerical fishing = 57 billion
lets face it Bill,math does not lie.

[Broad Bill]

recreational fishing= 2.6 billion{rough figure}
commercial fishing = 57 billion
lets face it Bill, math does not lie.

BD, curious where you got those statistics from? Didn't realize the numbers were that disparate. Is that worldwide versus domestic.

The attached link has the statistics for the USA I've always referenced half way down the page.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/resource/document/fisheries-economics-united-states-report#

The key numbers are job creation and value added as seafood sales are reported multiple times as they go from commercial catch to processing plants to distributors to wholesalers and ultimately to retailers and restaurants. One fish can be counted in sales a half a dozen times. Value added is essentially the same and job creation is overwhelmingly commercial which in my opinion is why most fisheries decisions are driven by economics as opposed to stock management. And as with anything reported by our government, who knows if these numbers are remotely accurate but they're not in the same area code as the numbers you posted.

Either way as I've been saying all along and to your point, there will always be a bias by government and the management agencies to favor commercial interests over recreational for this exact reason as long as this all reports up under the Secretary of Commerce.

[Gerry Zagorski]

recreational fishing= 2.6 billion{rough figure}
commerical fishing = 57 billion
lets face it Bill,math does not lie.

The problem with us recs is that we are loosely organized and lack the focus and funding to influence things, especially on the political side. This is due in part to not having a united front on issues. People and organization opinions vary from state to state and from organization to organization so getting to a point we can all agree and rally behind is difficult.

[Broad Bill]

The problem with us recs is that we are loosely organized and lack the focus and funding to influence things, especially on the political side. This is due in part to not having a united front on issues. People and organization opinions vary from state to state and from organization to organization so getting to a point we can all agree and rally behind is difficult.

Gerry I agree that the issues you bring up are significant problems, everyone has their own personal agendas. Maybe the recreational sector should unionize, pay dues and have one voice to speak on our behalf. We'd still have the issues to contend with on this thread regarding the government, ASMFC and MAFMC but it would address how fragmented the sector is. It might also help the recreational sector organize against equipment manufacturers who make hundreds of millions from our spending annually and do essentially nothing to preserve our rights, assist with enforcement matters and or environmental and conservation efforts.

[bunker dunker]

i was watching a program on the tele and that is what the comm fishing in these United States brings in{fresh&salt combined}.even if it was 10 billion to the recs
2.5 bil,that is still a steep hill to climb.there is no question that these fisheries need to be regulated in order to survive but the almighty dollar says different.this has never been about the regulations,its always been about the
money.

[Broad Bill]

When there's as much money involved as there is in this industry, politics, corruption, kick backs, government will be squarely in the middle of how the industry is regulated. It's no different than insider trading in the stock market for all members of Congress, the fishing industry is just another financial opportunity for those who know how to play the game. Sadly the recreational sector and the average Joe in this country are again the tail and the politicians and corrupt agencies the dog.

[Gerry Zagorski]

When there's as much money involved as there is in this industry, politics, corruption, kick backs, government will be squarely in the middle of how the industry is regulated. It's no different than insider trading in the stock market for all members of Congress, the fishing industry is just another financial opportunity for those who know how to play the game. Sadly the recreational sector and the average Joe in this country are again the tail and the politicians and corrupt agencies the dog.

And just so some people's anger and frustration in the system is pointed in the right direction and what Bill has alluded to above, this sort of stuff happens at a much higher level then the people on the various councils and committees. Let's not throw them under the bus... If you want to throw rocks, throw them at the top of the political system or the data and science they're forced to use or your anger and frustration is misdirected.

[Broad Bill]

And just so some people's anger and frustration in the system is pointed in the right direction and what Bill has alluded to above, this sort of stuff happens at a much higher level then the people on the various councils and committees. Let's not throw them under the bus... If you want to throw rocks, throw them at the top of the political system or the data and science they're forced to use or your anger and frustration is misdirected.

Gerry there's a lot of things we agree on, this isn't one of them. NMFS sets quotas based on whatever they do to assess stock size. Decisions on how those quotas translate to regulations are set by the ASMFC and the individual states making up the Commission as well as MAMFC.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) and the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (MAFMC) are both organizations responsible for managing fisheries along the Atlantic coast of the United States, with the key difference being that the ASMFC focuses on managing fish stocks that migrate between multiple states within the Atlantic coastal waters, while the MAFMC manages fisheries within a specific geographic region of the Mid-Atlantic, coordinating with the ASMFC on shared species that cross state boundaries; both organizations work to ensure sustainable fisheries through regulations, stock assessments, and collaborative efforts with states and federal agencies.

Both agencies have done a horrible job with striped bass and fluke, proof is in the results.

Fluke:
Who increased recreational size limits for fluke for the last 20 years?

Who gave the commercial sector access to substantially more of the fluke stock than the recreation sector. 14" and above versus for most states 18" to 19" and above"? Meaning the entire population of fluke between 14" and 18" exclusively belongs to the commercial sector.

Who restricted harvest of younger age classes recreationally so commercials can mop them up offshore?

Who incentivized the commercial sector to harvest larger older age class groups, the future of the stock, to increase their catch values and mitigate the financial impacts of reducing quotas due to failed regulatory decisions?

Who said "harvesting larger specimens is the best way to manage the stock"? Hint, initials are KD and a member of MAFMC.

Who allows unabated netting of fluke during their primary annual spawn with admittedly ZERO knowledge of the consequences on the stock?

Who allows this stock to be pounded year round and due to size increases has pushed discard mortality levels to historically high percentages, a very high percentage which goes unreported. Levels not remotely close to where they were when we were all harvesting younger age class fish and the stock was thriving? Here's a novel idea, we have federal observers on commercial boats, why not use their independent bycatch statistics as opposed to the honor system self reported by commercial operators on VTR's who you'd have to be an idiot to not know they under report. Does the recreational sector self report, why is the commercial sector allowed to when there's data from NMFS which shows huge disparities?

Whose brilliant idea was it to mandate the harvest of the most fecund age classes in the spawning stock to promote commercial catch values while killing millions of juvenile fish annually?

It wasn't NMFS or the feds.

Stripers:

Read the following articles about ASMFC:

https://onthewater.com/striped-bass-scientists-look-at-raising-size-limit

https://www.cbf.org/news-media/newsroom/2024/all/striped-bass-future-remains-uncertain-after-asmfc-forgoes-changes-for-2025-fishing-season.html

https://missionblue.org/2015/12/chesapeake-bay-suffers-from-menhaden-reduction-industry/

For Christ sake, you have Chris Moore, Executive Director of MAFMC say " “Given the history of striped bass management and the warning signs from young of the year surveys, it’s unfortunate that fisheries managers failed to act to conserve fish during the 2025 fishing season".

Note the commercial sets for menhaden in the Mission Blue article, a majority most assuredly by Cooke Inc.

Who proposed regulations to harvest the mega breeders for years, introduced another paper thin slot which guaranteed higher discard mortality rates and ignored the impacts of pollution in the Chesapeake.

Who sat by and did nothing while Cooke Inc. destroyed the Chesapeake and raped the ocean of Menhaden killing who knows how many bass and other juvenile species? There should be no netting in any bay along our coast, these bays are the breeding grounds and future of too many stocks and need to be treated as sanctuaries for juvenile fish.

If these agencies can't address the root cause of these stock declines, than they're both lame duck agencies.

To support fisheries management, the Commission "ASMFC" has a budget of $53.6 million, which comes from a combination of state appropriations and federal grants, including the Atlantic Coastal Fisheries Cooperative Management Act. And God only knows what the combined budgets are for MAMFC and NMFS. Once again, recreational funding in part though excise taxes based on recreational spending which isn't being used to address and properly manage two of the most important stocks to the recreational sector.

For these two stocks, blame needs to be directed at each of the three agencies as they mismanaged and continue to mismanage both stocks, put economics before stock management and utterly fail to implement sensible regulations which address the problems both fisheries are experiencing. If ASMFC and MAMFC prioritized the interest of the fisheries, we wouldn't be having this discourse and we wouldn't be seeing recruitment levels in both fisheries at 50 year lows. A lawsuit should've been filed by ASMFC to push Cooke Inc. out of the Chesapeake and reduce menhaden quotas for 5 years and everyone on the Commission sat on their ass and did not one thing to stop the exploitation of the most important forage fish on the east coast.

There is culpability at every level, a complete failure by the federal government, state governments and more than anywhere else at the ASMFC and MAMFC who are tasked with managing these fisheries. Their personal regulatory decisions coupled with environmental issues in the Chesapeake which the ASMFC has influence over have caused a 42% decline in the 2024 and 2025 fluke quota and is now risking a moratorium with the striper stock.

[bunker dunker]

all are great points but to get the revenue to hold the corporate machine up, we would have to times the amount of fisher peeps by millions.as we stand right now we are shrinking in size every year.davey vs goliath times a million.your talking about bringing honesty back to government??look around the news,they are inditing elected officials all around the country for bribes,kickbacks and abuse of power everyday.i'm not saying to give up the fight but we need a much much better plan.we need law???

[hammer4reel]

all are great points but to get the revenue to hold the corporate machine up, we would have to times the amount of fisher peeps by millions.as we stand right now we are shrinking in size every year.davey vs goliath times a million.your talking about bringing honesty back to government??look around the news,they are inditing elected officials all around the country for bribes,kickbacks and abuse of power everyday.i'm not saying to give up the fight but we need a much much better plan.we need law???


For sure . Politics is all about what they can gain for themselves .
People that didn’t make 2 million in their whole careers as a politician , yet are worth 250-300 million didn’t do it by caring about others .
Self gain is the only reason they are there .

But I do feel there are actually more fisherman and boaters than ever , problem is getting them all in the same page .
The 90 percent not catching don’t have the same feelings about what the rest of us do .

.

[Broad Bill]

BD / Dan I agree with both your points. I was addressing a different approach to maybe how our sector can get a voice and funding and why I believe a lawsuit is the only way to combat the corruption that exists in politics at every level including the ASMFC and MAFMC. Patience will not solve these problems as the last 20 or more years have proven.

[hammer4reel]

BD / Dan I agree with both your points. I was addressing a different approach to maybe how our sector can get a voice and funding and why I believe a lawsuit is the only way to combat the corruption that exists in politics at every level including the ASMFC and MAFMC. Patience will not solve these problems as the last 20 or more years have proven.

A lawsuit is the only thing that will bring change .

Group that should be pursuing that suit is the ASA.

After what we have seen , manufacturers should tell the ASA to shove it , as they aren’t doing anything with the millions of dollars they are getting to protect their interests .

.

[Broad Bill]

A lawsuit is the only thing that will bring change .

Group that should be pursuing that suit is the ASA.

After what we have seen , manufacturers should tell the ASA to shove it , as they aren’t doing anything with the millions of dollars they are getting to protect their interests .

.
We are in complete agreement Dan. ASA has the resources, funding (our funding) to change the dynamics and fate of these two stock's fortunes and assist in a moratorium on Cooke Inc's netting in the Chesapeake.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Here are some documents for those of you who want to dig deeper

The press release summarizing the December meeting outcome is available here: https://asmfc.org/uploads/file/6761ba9dpr40AtlStripedBassAddendumInitiation.pdf



All the December meeting materials, including the presentations and a link to a full recording, are available here: https://www.asmfc.org/home/December-2024-AtlStripedBassBoard-meeting

[Broad Bill]

Here are some documents for those of you who want to dig deeper

The press release summarizing the December meeting outcome is available here: https://asmfc.org/uploads/file/6761ba9dpr40AtlStripedBassAddendumInitiation.pdf



All the December meeting materials, including the presentations and a link to a full recording, are available here: https://www.asmfc.org/home/December-2024-AtlStripedBassBoard-meeting

Gerry sincerely thanks for all your efforts keeping people informed about the process and what's going on here. After twenty to thirty years of getting the "proverbial short end of the stick", I think everyone sees how NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC function and it's all about politics and not at all about managing salt water stocks for the future. Commercial owners, politicians, corrupt officials, corrupt businesses etc. and all the Members of these agencies get off on the power they yield and the money they make while the average hard working recreational angler and party and for hire owners literally get shit on. I'll take a line from Adam Nowalsky himself years ago. "You can send me as many emails, analysis and charts (created from NMFS's own data) as you wish, it won't make a bit of difference in how these fisheries are being managed". In other words, stay the %&^$ out of our affairs. The members of the Council and Committee are puppets concerned only about grabbing as much money and quota for their own states and personal benefit and aren't at all concerned about the state of fisheries or the recreational sector they're responsible for managing and representing. I'm at a stage in my life where I say let the fluke and striped bass fisheries completely collapse if that's what it'll take for everyone to realize just how misguided and destructive management of these resources are due to personal agendas and greed. We don't need death by a million cuts as we've been experiencing, get it over with and start the rebuilding process if it's not already too late as it was with whiting, winter flounder, weakfish, cod, mackerel etc. and when these two stocks stocks fail, which they assuredly will, what will commercial concerns have left to fish for and what will the politicians have left to horse trade with. NOTHING!

Short sided ill advised short term decisions with long term and potentially permanently crippling economic and social results. If that's what it takes to change this corrupt process, let it start now. In two years the same problems that've caused the striper fishery to decline will cause it to decline even further and then what, we wait another two years or close it down completely. That's what Adam Nowalsky and the ASMFC essentially accomplished in this latest meeting, secured the fate of this fishery through 2026 and it won't be pretty.

When a business is on the brink of bankruptcy, does the management team or Board say lets wait two years, collect more data and see where that takes us. By then the doors would be padlocked. How is this any different? This is a complete failure from the federal government right down to the state government and ASMFC and MAFMC are right in the middle of it all. And ASA sits on the sidelines or even worse is involved in these decisions causing an absolute shit show funded by excise taxes from the money the recreational sector spends on this recreational sport. Time to call bullshit what it really is.

Our hard earned tax dollars at work, not sure how anyone can support what's happening here or pay homage to any Member of the Commission or Council if you know the facts and understand how this process works. When stocks start growing and recreational and commercial regulations become significantly less restrictive due to the decades long sacrifices of the recreational community, then and only then is it time to give credit where credit is due. Until then, let's refrain from dolling out accolades because no one involved in this process deserves positive recognition for delivering years of failed results. Again to put this in perspective, we're living through a 42% cut in fluke quotas and staring at a potential striped bass moratorium. No one would have ever predicted this in our lifetime yet here we are yet again with two more fisheries in distress and the answer is kick the can down the road. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, would you agree Gerry?
Your words, not mine.

[Gerry Zagorski]

There's plenty wrong with the system especially for us recs.. MRIP which is our assumed harvest numbers can't be trusted and even though some fisheries that we suffered to rebuild, like Sea Bass, we get no liberalization.

As far as me doling out accolades, I feel the need to recognize the people that try and make a difference and add some common sense to let an otherwise flawed process steam down the tracks.

In this Striped Bass example, were initially given unilateral one size fits all measures that did not take into account state and regional differences and did not distribute the sacrifices that needed to be made equitably.

The new proposal gives the states and the regions the time and ability to provide input on how they'd like to achieve their fair share of 9% harvest reduction. As far as I'm concerned, that's a major victory since decisions like these are best made closest to the people they effect.

[Broad Bill]

There's plenty wrong with the system especially for us recs.. MRIP which is our assumed harvest numbers can't be trusted and even though some fisheries that we suffered to rebuild, like Sea Bass, we get no liberalization.

As far as me doling out accolades, I feel the need to recognize the people that try and make a difference and add some common sense to let an otherwise flawed process steam down the tracks.

In this Striped Bass example, were initially given unilateral one size fits all measures that did not take into account state and regional differences and did not distribute the sacrifices that needed to be made equitably.

The new proposal gives the states and the regions the time and ability to provide input on how they'd like to achieve their fair share of 9% harvest reduction. As far as I'm concerned, that's a major victory since decisions like these are best made closest to the people they effect.

Gerry while I respect your views and intentions, mine are different for a lot of reasons. Both fisheries should never be in the position they are today and if these "managing bodies", and I use that term loosely, were doing their jobs, we wouldn't be faced with two incredibly struggling fisheries. Everyone involved in the management of these stocks should have seen this coming a mile away and addressed it as this didn't happen over night. You have to ask yourself why that is. Decisions should be made to fix these problems today, not next year, two years from now or beyond. The same people throwing out talking points now are for the most part the same people who put us in this position to begin with and the stock, many small businesses, for hire / party boat operators including your sponsors and recreational anglers will be the ones who feel the pain. Commercial on the other hand always seem to see their catch values increase regardless of quota cuts because of basic supply and demand principles. That and these Committees and Councils protect commerce by making sure they harvest the fish with the highest market values which typically means the breeding stock of every fishery further compounding the problem.

It has to change and if it means a tea party approach so be it because 20 or more years of waiting for NMFS, ASMFC, MAFMC, ASA and all the individual fishing organizations to come together to save our fisheries has been an abject failure. We keep on this pace and there won't be a stock worth fishing for in the ocean and thousand of owner operators and small businesses will get crushed financially. As I said earlier, Chris Moore, Executive Director of MAMFC, acknowledges this latest decision for what it really is, another failure by ASMFC. Collectively, NMFS, ASMFC and MAMFC aren't getting it done, why would anyone believe they're going to find religion over the next two years. I've had too many exchanges with these people and know they don't give a shit about recreational anglers. We'll see what happens by 2026 but I'd bet it won't be pretty and will require more remediation then because of their indecisiveness now and then what?

Enough on the subject, I wish you and your family a Very Merry Christmas along with all the members of the site.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry while I respect your views and intentions, mine are different for a lot of reasons. Both fisheries should never be in the position they are today and if these "managing bodies", and I use that term loosely, were doing their jobs, we wouldn't be faced with two incredibly struggling fisheries. Everyone involved in the management of these stocks should have seen this coming a mile away and addressed it as this didn't happen over night. You have to ask yourself why that is. Decisions should be made to fix these problems today, not next year, two years from now or beyond. The same people throwing out talking points now are for the most part the same people who put us in this position to begin with and the stock, many small businesses, for hire / party boat operators including your sponsors and recreational anglers will be the ones who feel the pain. Commercial on the other hand always seem to see their catch values increase regardless of quota cuts because of basic supply and demand principles. That and these Committees and Councils protect commerce by making sure they harvest the fish with the highest market values which typically means the breeding stock of every fishery further compounding the problem.

It has to change and if it means a tea party approach so be it because 20 or more years of waiting for NMFS, ASMFC, MAFMC, ASA and all the individual fishing organizations to come together to save our fisheries has been an abject failure. We keep on this pace and there won't be a stock worth fishing for in the ocean and thousand of owner operators and small businesses will get crushed financially. As I said earlier, Chris Moore, Executive Director of MAMFC, acknowledges this latest decision for what it really is, another failure by ASMFC. Collectively, NMFS, ASMFC and MAMFC aren't getting it done, why would anyone believe they're going to find religion over the next two years. I've had too many exchanges with these people and know they don't give a shit about recreational anglers. We'll see what happens by 2026 but I'd bet it won't be pretty and will require more remediation then because of their indecisiveness now and then what?

Enough on the subject, I wish you and your family a Very Merry Christmas along with all the members of the site.

And all the best to you and yours Tom!

[Gerry Zagorski]

An interesting read from the JCAA, their take on what happened https://www.jcaa.org/jcnl2501/2501FMLR.htm