FISHERMEN/COMMENT TO ASMF/STRIPED BASS

[1captainron]

ASMFC,

I am the owner/operator of the Party Boat Fishermen in Atlantic Highlands, NJ. My family started business in 1958, I personally have been running the business for 48 years now.

In regard to the Striped Bass management issue, I hear a lot of different things. One being that there could be a November closure. If this is true, that would have a devastating effect on not only my business but every Charter & Party boat in the State.
Mid-October into the first 2 weeks of December accounts for 33% of my business, what am I supposed to fish for, blackfish that are already in trouble? I have been bass fishing since 2000, we have always played by the rules including the ridiculous 28-31 inch fish this season!!
Why have no scientist or anyone doing research come out with any of us to see what actually goes on? This season in particular, striped bass are still being caught from Long Island to Sandy Hook down past Cape May. This does not include the fish that migrate beyond the 3-mile limit out to the mud hole and beyond.

I find it astounding that you would actually entertain the idea of putting hard working Americans out of business to justify saving something that has already been saved many times over from what I have seen all these years.
We have NO commercial fishery in NJ for Striped bass, why should we get punished when the fish swim off to the southern states and get decimated?
I know from the past the response will be, we will take it under advisement, and I will be screwed once again. Thank you for your time, Capt. Ron Santee

[1captainron]

I also find it amazing that not ONE person has commented on this sight about this situation. Owners, Captains, Deck hands, recreational fishermen. Very sad.

Gerry put up a post at the top of the page talking about the meeting and what was going on, the only reply was his own. I guess it just falls on deaf ears.

All the crybabies will be posting after the fact when we are screwed again. :mad:

Capt. Ron

[Bluefish]

of course i agree with you, it is not right or scientific its just idiotic rules by people who dont know . while i am merely a recreational fisherman now I was there having dinner with Senior and my Dad (Grandma made a big roast) when the Fisherboy was sold to become the Lazy J, a charter boat up the sound and the Miss Moore changed hands so I know what used to be, what was and what is now. there were how many boats in Sheepshead, how many at Atlantic highlands Staten Island, Bayonne, The Bronx and the list goes on. This is just another example of the inexperienced and unknowing leading the way and ruining a way of life.

[ksong]

Here is Capt Skip's remarks on Facebook. I totally agree with him.

My name is Captain Skip Jastremski. I own and Run Stalker Fishing Charters out of Cape May NJ. I’ve been working on the water since I was 12yrs old and have been a captain since I was 22 yrs old. I’m 46 now. I’d like to think that my opinion might count in a situation like this as I’m on the water a lot more than most people.
I have to urge you not to put the Striped Bass fishery into any type of closure as it would send many businesses, including mine into an epic collapse! Tackle shops, marinas, gas stations, mom and pop restaurants , charter boats and even the bigger stores such as Bass pro shops and Cabelas will feel the effects of this type of decision!!
I’ve spent countless hours learning about these fish and feel as though the state of this fishery is not in bad shape! Climate change , migratory patterns, erosion, pollution may be some of your biggest factors on why things aren’t what they once were. Maybe Stripers have found different areas to spawn. As far as numbers of Stripers. I haven’t seen a decline in my time on the water (which is a lot) Ever since super storm Sandy, things have shifted. Water temps are warmer later into the season for one.
Please consider the repercussions of what this could lead to. People have families, homes, kids getting ready to go into college��. This will certainly affect all of that! For me for sure!
I am 100% against the fishery being put into a closure and or just being catch and release. I feel as though one Striper 28” and above was the best option and leads to a lot less fish being handled for more time than they need to be handled.
May I recommend no fishing in the rivers during their spawn season in March/April and May. That would help a lot I believe.
I hope that we can come to a resolution with all of this and the folks at ASFMC can please see that this is just not the answer to the flawed science.
I am available to speak to anyone that would be willing to reach out.
Thank you for your time!
Captain Skip Jastremski
Stalker Fishing Charters
Cape May NJ
609-972-5218
We have to respond to ASMFC by Dec 10. Comments@asmfc.org

[togzilla]

Here is the point everyone is missing. This is the bureaucratic govt. that wants us off the water so they can use the resource for their own special interest groups. They have been infected with progressive liberal interests for decades and their fruits of their labor are finally coming to pass. How else can you explain the complete mismanagement of our fisheries(winter flounder, whiting, fluke, blackfish, etc.) ?

[bulletbob]

Here is Capt Skip's remarks on Facebook. I totally agree with him.

My name is Captain Skip Jastremski. I own and Run Stalker Fishing Charters out of Cape May NJ. I’ve been working on the water since I was 12yrs old and have been a captain since I was 22 yrs old. I’m 46 now. I’d like to think that my opinion might count in a situation like this as I’m on the water a lot more than most people.
I have to urge you not to put the Striped Bass fishery into any type of closure as it would send many businesses, including mine into an epic collapse! Tackle shops, marinas, gas stations, mom and pop restaurants , charter boats and even the bigger stores such as Bass pro shops and Cabelas will feel the effects of this type of decision!!
I’ve spent countless hours learning about these fish and feel as though the state of this fishery is not in bad shape! Climate change , migratory patterns, erosion, pollution may be some of your biggest factors on why things aren’t what they once were. Maybe Stripers have found different areas to spawn. As far as numbers of Stripers. I haven’t seen a decline in my time on the water (which is a lot) Ever since super storm Sandy, things have shifted. Water temps are warmer later into the season for one.
Please consider the repercussions of what this could lead to. People have families, homes, kids getting ready to go into college��. This will certainly affect all of that! For me for sure!
I am 100% against the fishery being put into a closure and or just being catch and release. I feel as though one Striper 28” and above was the best option and leads to a lot less fish being handled for more time than they need to be handled.
May I recommend no fishing in the rivers during their spawn season in March/April and May. That would help a lot I believe.
I hope that we can come to a resolution with all of this and the folks at ASFMC can please see that this is just not the answer to the flawed science.
I am available to speak to anyone that would be willing to reach out.
Thank you for your time!
Captain Skip Jastremski
Stalker Fishing Charters
Cape May NJ
609-972-5218
We have to respond to ASMFC by Dec 10. Comments@asmfc.org


I sympathize and understand where this capt is coming from... However while it would be great for HIM for the seasons to go on as is, he recommends a 3 month closure in the rivers where they spawn... Yeah, I get it but then what about the charter captains/tackle shops/ businesses of other types that depend on the springtime striper runs up the rivers?.. They go broke, while his charter business stays intact. He might have considered that..
LOTS of businesses/charters in the Hudson especially depend on the spring striper run.
Are they any less worthy of survival?. bob

[Lido-Gambler]

Capt Ron. We are with you and all the other for hire boats. Its potentially devastating. -Your comments are spot on.

Chris Lido

[champ]

I sent my note with basically the same message as above. I also included the impact on other businesses. In Keyport alone in my marina, there are trailed boats from Pa, NY, Vt, Ohio and more. Just to catch a bass. This is the epitome of tourism. Not to mention the ripple effect on gas, deli's, bait and tackle, etc. Even with current regulations.

Not sure why the recreation anglers aren't support by the big tackle makers - Penn, Shimano, Berkley, etc

[NoLimit]

Pressure has to be applied to town, county, and state govt officials. The Feds won’t help. Recall how the while killing was stopped. It was when the mayors of every shore town got on the news and stood up for the truth.

[mikdel]

Here is the point everyone is missing. This is the bureaucratic govt. that wants us off the water so they can use the resource for their own special interest groups. They have been infected with progressive liberal interests for decades and their fruits of their labor are finally coming to pass. How else can you explain the complete mismanagement of our fisheries(winter flounder, whiting, fluke, blackfish, etc.) ?

Would you call commercial fishermen and commercial fisheries with money to pay lobbyist to promote their interest progressive liberals? I believe if I read it right on here commercial fisherman will be able to keep flounder as bycatch when out of season for them. Maybe recs should be able to do the same with by catch flounder when fishing for other species like striped bass.

[TomKaye]

I sent my note with basically the same message as above. I also included the impact on other businesses. In Keyport alone in my marina, there are trailed boats from Pa, NY, Vt, Ohio and more. Just to catch a bass. This is the epitome of tourism. Not to mention the ripple effect on gas, deli's, bait and tackle, etc. Even with current regulations.

Not sure why the recreation anglers aren't support by the big tackle makers - Penn, Shimano, Berkley, etc

I sent my comments very similar to what Champ has stated above, absent the part about big tackle makers support. The effect on businesses ancillary to the party and charter boats, and their families would be devastating.
I hope some of these bureaucrats pay attention.

[captbogan]

Here is the point everyone is missing. This is the bureaucratic govt. that wants us off the water so they can use the resource for their own special interest groups. They have been infected with progressive liberal interests for decades and their fruits of their labor are finally coming to pass. How else can you explain the complete mismanagement of our fisheries(winter flounder, whiting, fluke, blackfish, etc.) ?


This is completely true. I have been saying this for years. The more boats they get off their ocean, the better. There will never be enough fish in the ocean for them.

[Broad Bill]

I also find it amazing that not ONE person has commented on this sight about this situation. Owners, Captains, Deck hands, recreational fishermen. Very sad.

Gerry put up a post at the top of the page talking about the meeting and what was going on, the only reply was his own. I guess it just falls on deaf ears.

All the crybabies will be posting after the fact when we are screwed again. :mad:

Capt. Ron


Couldn't agree with you more Capt. You know how many posts I've made and how much time I've spent over the years actually communicating with multiple regulatory bodies and when I looked in the rear view mirror to see how many people were supporting me there's was no one. Not even owners or people you'd consider leaders in the recreational angling community. We're our own worst enemies short of a handful of people who are willing to get involved as opposed to just bitch. We have the numbers and economic spend to have a voice and change this corrupt process but as a whole we're not close to being organized and lack the leadership needed to make our voice heard. ASA, fishing organizations, equipment manufacturers, owner operators, small businesses and recreational fishermen can't get out of their own way to fight Washington, ASMFC and MAFMC. Instead we suck up to them because nobody when push comes to shove wants to rock the boat, especially with NMFS. We keep accepting the scraps we get every year relative to the commercial sector, we won't have to worry about that much longer because soon there won't be a boat left to rock nor will there be fisheries left to access.

Until the recreational angling community grows a set of balls and gets off its ass to cause change as opposed to complaining about it, there's not one thing that will change because history shows nothing has over the last 20 to 25 years. As I said, we're our own worst enemy because we do nothing but whine every year about getting the short end of the stick. I know many will take offense to my post but it's the truth.

We want change, organize and file a lawsuit against the Department of Commerce, NOAA and NMFS and let the results of that litigation trickle down to ASMFC and MAFMC who also don't give a s*** about the stocks they manage nor the recreational community they're supposed to be representing. They're all too busy playing let's make a deal with public resources the recreational community has enjoyed for generations which have now been targeted by politicians and conglomerates for their own personal financial gains.

[Capt Sal]

I caught my first bass in the late fifties when it was just ok fishing. There were less less bass in the sixties and worse in the seventies! Bass made a come back in the late nineties and the present day bass fishing is nothing short of incredible!. So remember what Reagan said. We are from the Government and we are here to help??????? Don't believe your ''LYING EYES''.

[dales529]

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/fishing-back-when-atlantic-states-struggle-with-stripers
Original article from 1983 which addresses pollution and spawning in Chesapeake Bay. Albeit on the commercial side but to BB points and posts WHY has nothing been done by ASMFC on any of this ???
If this doesnt piss you off nothing will and if you still think a political party will favor you over another then you need some cognitive testing.

Problem with federal lawsuits is that they threaten removal of fed permits to the for hire industry meaning NO Tuna / NO Offshore Sea Bass permits etc so most wont join a lawsuit. Like we tried on seabass in the past.

RFA had a lobbyist that went to hearings in Washington but our own rec guys and facebook put RFA to the curb! You can say nothing got done for your donations but what has happened since? Answer: It only got worse!

Was going to stay out of this but cant:
Same 6 Capts / maybe 10 Recs etc always chiming in in texts , emails and posts here: Capt Ron, Capt Bob , Capt Derek, Capt Jerry ( facebook) , Capt Dan, Gerry Z , BB, BD , Duff, Larry, Andy, Dave. Angler Paul, Tom Kaye and some others with more of a political agenda than rec fishing but at least they post.

NOT ENOUGH by thousands and thinking new politics are going to help is insanity at its best definition.

Sorry for the rant but been involved as you all know since 2008 and participation from rec anglers is disgusting.

[TheFishSlayer]

Gerry and the rest of the gang, let’s get a change.org petition going. I don’t know all the details of the proposition. But I think we can get tens of thousands of signatures on a well written letter.

Let me know id be happy to help.

Nathan Franco

[Legacy]

I sent in my comments Ron. With 50 plus years on the water and my experience fishing for bass from Maine down to North Carolina, I would hope that my feedback does not fall on deaf ears.

[Broad Bill]

Problem with federal lawsuits is that they threaten removal of fed permits to the for hire industry meaning NO Tuna / NO Offshore Sea Bass permits etc. so most wont join a lawsuit. Like we tried on seabass in the past.

Dave help me understand this. On 10/10/19 based on the following link:

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/ag-james-and-governor-cuomo-announce-lawsuit-challenging-federal-quota-new-yorks

Leticia James and Andrew Cuomo representing the State of New York filed a complaint for the unfair and disproportionate allocation of commercial summer flounder quotas based on outdated allocations from MSA from the 80's among states and won. New York ended up having their quota increased. The Plaintiffs were New York State, the Commissioner of NY DEC as well as the DEC itself. Named defendants were Wilbur Ross (Secretary of Commerce), the Department of Commerce itself, NOAA and NMFS. The NY commercial fishing alliance isn't even mentioned in the complaint. Do the laws discriminate between sectors?

Why then can NY file a complaint against the federal government but New Jersey based on your post can't, assuming we had the resources to do so. It didn't seem to prevent New York State from doing so on behalf of the commercial sector, why would the circumstances be any different if New Jersey filed a complaint on behalf of the recreational community including for hire operators. The complaint should cite unequitable and unfair allocation of the resource among sectors, specifically granted for under MSA, and mismanagement of the stock resulting in adverse economic impacts to all coastal states for two decades?

I simply would like to understand why litigation against the federal government isn't an option to the recreational sector or New Jersey but has been to the commercial sector repeatedly and obviously based on this complaint our neighbor state New York.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry and the rest of the gang, let’s get a change.org petition going. I don’t know all the details of the proposition. But I think we can get tens of thousands of signatures on a well written letter.

Let me know id be happy to help.

Nathan Franco

Thanks Nathan lets see where this goes on 12/16 and if it’s over the top we’ll need a petition and a lot of other political influence

[dales529]

Dave help me understand this. On 10/10/19 based on the following link:

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/ag-james-and-governor-cuomo-announce-lawsuit-challenging-federal-quota-new-yorks

Leticia James and Andrew Cuomo representing the State of New York filed a complaint for the unfair and disproportionate allocation of commercial summer flounder quotas based on outdated allocations from MSA from the 80's among states and won. New York ended up having their quota increased. The Plaintiffs were New York State, the Commissioner of NY DEC as well as the DEC itself. Named defendants were Wilbur Ross (Secretary of Commerce), the Department of Commerce itself, NOAA and NMFS. The NY commercial fishing alliance isn't even mentioned in the complaint. Do the laws discriminate between sectors?

Why then can NY file a complaint against the federal government but New Jersey based on your post can't, assuming we had the resources to do so. It didn't seem to prevent New York State from doing so on behalf of the commercial sector, why would the circumstances be any different if New Jersey filed a complaint on behalf of the recreational community including for hire operators. The complaint should cite unequitable and unfair allocation of the resource among sectors, specifically granted for under MSA, and mismanagement of the stock resulting in adverse economic impacts to all coastal states for two decades?

I simply would like to understand why litigation against the federal government isn't an option to the recreational sector or New Jersey but has been to the commercial sector repeatedly and obviously based on this complaint our neighbor state New York.

Look I certainly dont know as much as others that dont post here and always has been a form of frustration as they live this s--t. Rec Fishermen BS is why the fisheries management forum here got shut down and RFA NJ got kicked to the curb. Those that fight everyday got tired of being called out/ you included to a certain extent.

Back in the day to my knowledge NJ tried a "complaint" to the secretary of commerce on Seabass and it was stopped due to a threat of Fed permits but again that was 2011/12.

The NY Complaint you reference is newer and did you see the below as it looks like ASA is attached to an even more recent action / complaint / lawsuit.

https://asafishing.org/advocacy/policy-updates/asa-intervenes-in-lawsuit-seeks-to-ensure-successful-implementation-of-the-modern-fish-act/

Always moving parts to this puzzle that most are unaware of unless you have the time to live it everyday and sad a lot doesnt get on here.

[1captainron]

of course i agree with you, it is not right or scientific its just idiotic rules by people who dont know . while i am merely a recreational fisherman now I was there having dinner with Senior and my Dad (Grandma made a big roast) when the Fisherboy was sold to become the Lazy J, a charter boat up the sound and the Miss Moore changed hands so I know what used to be, what was and what is now. there were how many boats in Sheepshead, how many at Atlantic highlands Staten Island, Bayonne, The Bronx and the list goes on. This is just another example of the inexperienced and unknowing leading the way and ruining a way of life.

Not many remember the Fisher boy! My dad's first boat that sailed out of the Sandy Hook Bay Marina in Highlands. Sheepshead bay had 48 Party & Charter boats back then (all making money) all doing different types of fishing, I could go on and on but thank you for that memory, that's awesome! Capt. Ron

[Tuna Tales]

Below is the letter submitted today on behalf of the Hi-Mar Striper Club. Please note all members were highly encouraged to submit their own comments as well.


Joe T.

[Broad Bill]

Those that fight everyday got tired of being called out / yourself included to a certain extent.

Remove "certain extent" and I agree completely. I put in thousands of hours over five years trying to fight everyone's battles, improve access and help rebuild stocks for all our benefits including commercial interests and like I said when I looked behind me to see who had my back I was by myself. You were always by my side mentoring me about the process but it wasn't nearly enough to cause change. That includes members on this site, politicians, ASMFC, MAMFC and NMFS members, state agencies and even recreational fishing organizations. Everyone had their own agenda or didn't care enough to get involved which is why the sector will never be unified. And to make matters worse and my biggest disappointment, certain fishing organizations actually went out of their way to undermine my work because it conflicted with their personal or club's personal agendas. No one can help people who aren't willing or are too lazy to help themselves or are in this for personal reasons. We either improve fisheries management and a broken process as a whole which is at the root of all fisheries problems or the can just continues being kicked down the road which in my opinion is exactly what will happen.

This is a fight, make no mistake about it and I'll go out on the limb again and predict a striper closure is already guaranteed in spite of the December 16th meeting and all the public's comments which as always will fall on deaf ears. NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC don't want anyone playing in their sandbox and when push comes to shove, the commercials hold their ground and fight while the recreational sector blinks and does nothing more than complain.

Fishing effort versus catch values is all anyone needs to know, two polar opposite ideologies NMFS uses to manage fisheries and sectors. The fed and states want the recreational sector to fish and spend as much money as possible (fishing effort) while restricting harvest and simultaneously make policy decisions for the commercial sector which focus on one thing and one thing only, catch values. Those are polar opposite ways of managing sectors and the fishery as a whole and a short sided formula for disaster which we've been witnessing the effects of first hand in one fishery after another for too many years. Blackfish, weakfish, whiting, ling, cod, pollock, winter flounder, cod, stripers, fluke etc.. Until that management ideology changes at the three primary agencies tasked with fishery management, we're going to experience the same results with stock declines we've experienced the last four decades. The incessant focus on economics and political and state greed versus the prudent management of stocks continues to put another nail in the coffin of many of the remaining fisheries. Nothing is sustainable if the regulations don't support that outcome and protect stocks from exploitation, commercial and corporate greed and any issues like natural predation (dogfish) and the declining water quality conditions of the Chesapeake Bay which threaten a stock's survival.