Summer Flounder Commercial Regulation Changes

[Gerry Zagorski]

Looks like some changes coming to the Commercial Regulations for Summer Flounder. Quotas and seasons looks like they remain the same but they’re going to allow the them to keep Summer Flounder as a by catch when fishing with smaller trawl net diameters for other smaller species. I assume the by catch will count towards their quotas.

https://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=1229622&f=575&s=1400&m=582032&t=c91e877ba7a03bf9135875e150925dfbebe185c5a4f4e55a 5668e0c7a3f95c98

[Broad Bill]

Received notice of this change four days ago. They're passing this under the smokescreen of reducing discards by other small mesh netters when in fact the driving force is increasing catch values for the commercial sector. As stated, "the intent of this change is to increase economic opportunities for industry while continuing to protect the summer flounder stock and prevent regulatory discards". Instead of summer flounder being an incidental by catch while targeting other species like sea bass and porgies, these small mesh operators will actually now target and retain summer flounder and be allowed to keep an amount yet to be disclosed to increase "economic opportunities " or catch values. More pressure on the stock during winter months when the biomass is most concentrated and most vulnerable to netting. They're also moving the line where these exemptions exist 5 miles further inshore and issuing more exemptions to make the last remaining biomass more accessible to hundreds more commercial operators. At the same time, the definition of "flynet" is being liberalized to further allow more carnage to the stock while the stock winters offshore. Short term decisions benefitting the commercial sector with unquantifiable risks to the stock itself. There's no safe harbor for this fishery and without some protection of the stock and spawn itself, this fishery will not survive. So discards become harvest and thousands if not millions more fish are killed, how exactly does that help a fishery with one leg already in the grave.

MAFMC increased minimum mesh sizes in 1997 under Amendment 10 to "allegedly" protect younger age classes from being killed right at the same time they started increasing recreational size minimums giving the commercial sector exclusive access to certain age groups of the stock. Over the last two decades with recreational size minimums increasing to essentially a minimum coast wide size of 18" or larger, that exclusivity has increased to the point the commercial sector now has exclusive harvest rights to 80% - 90% of the biomass assisted by the caveat they can still retain fish at 14" and above if they choose. Now that older age classes have crashed because they've been targeted by the regulations and are disappearing from the biomass, this policy change is allowing small mesh operators targeting other species to get in on the game to supplement their catch values. Has nothing to do with discard mortality as the article suggests. If fish were being accidentally netted and discarded dead, now they'll be targeted and retained. Either way, they're dead and this policy will increase the numbers killed. Remember it was small mesh netters and the foreign fleet that wiped out our ground stock within a year or two in the 70's, this will have the same effects.

Quotas cut by over 40% and now this. Where's the comparable liberalization for the recreational sector. Where's regulations managing and protecting the stock? And so everyone's aware, Michael Waine from the beloved do nothing ASA is on the Committee responsible for passing these changes.

And they say they'll monitor the impacts of additional harvest and discard rates to determine the impacts these revised regulations will have on killing more summer flounder and if those levels become too egregious changes will be made. That's equivalent to the fox guarding the chicken coop as discard information is based on self reporting from commercial operators on vessel trip reports they fill out with any discard numbers they arbitrarily elect to report. Numbers generated by the same people benefitting from this policy change. If the recreational sector self reported, you can bet our landings and discard numbers would probably be half what MRIP suggests they are.

Fair and equitable distribution and access to the resource, the regulations governing this fishery have gone from absurd to absolutely insanity. And for anyone who consciously believes this fishery years ago wasn't turned over to the commercial sector, you don't understand the impact of decisions that have been made and the inequities of the impacts of those decisions between the recreational and commercial sectors while the overall health of the stock continues to take a back seat. All those younger age class fish people talked about being caught and released this year providing hope for the future of the fishery, as I said then and will repeat now, they'll be available at $29.99 a lb. in your local super markets this winter. You think they'll rebuild the older age classes which have been decimated by regulations, think again. The continued pounding of this stock by commercial interests throughout the entire winter when a majority of the commercial quota is filled, led by the mega boats from North Carolina and Virginia, will never allow that rebuilding process to happen. And now God only know how many small mesh netters are going to get in on that action.

We went from overharvesting younger age classes and crashing the stock in the late 80's to protecting younger age classes from recreational harvest while incentivizing commercials to harvest those more valuable age classes over the last two decades. Now that the relative population of those age groups has been pummeled, management is now giving the commercial sector the liberty to once again have more focus on younger age classes and allowing more "small mesh" netters to get involved. Any fishery under management with a year round commercial presence today is screwed.

[AndyS]

When they're gone they're gone, just like the Whiting, Boston Mackerel, Mako Sharks, Winter Flounder and Weakfish.

[Broad Bill]

When they're gone they're gone, just like the Whiting, Boston Mackerel, Mako Sharks, Winter Flounder and Weakfish.

Andy I've been saying for years on this site and to ASMFC, MAFMC and NMFS, this stock will be the next winter flounder saga and the sad part is it's happening for exactly the same reasons meaning we haven't learned from past mistakes or more likely these groups consciously choose to ignore all the red flags for their own personal agendas and benefits and for the primary benefit of the commercial sector. Anyone who doesn't realize that is blind.

[1captainron]

I will be keeping Lots of by catch next season, Bullshit!
48 years running this business, playing by the rules thinking the regs were for the greater good and I just keep getting up the butt.

Sorry but all bets are off and everyone in this (what's left of this business), should be on the same page. Fine me, try to take my boat, pull my license at this point in my career it really doesn't matter, I still do this because I love it!

I want to puke every spring when the choices come up and everyone scrambles for the right choice, it's all bullshit, have some balls for a change and say Enough is Enough, especially the young guns who hope to have a future! Take care of your customers and do what you gotta do! The Government's not going to pay your bills. BULLSHIT!!!!:mad:

[tautog]

I will be keeping Lots of by catch next season, Bullshit!
48 years running this business, playing by the rules thinking the regs were for the greater good and I just keep getting up the butt.

Sorry but all bets are off and everyone in this (what's left of this business), should be on the same page. Fine me, try to take my boat, pull my license at this point in my career it really doesn't matter, I still do this because I love it!

I want to puke every spring when the choices come up and everyone scrambles for the right choice, it's all bullshit, have some balls for a change and say Enough is Enough, especially the young guns who hope to have a future! Take care of your customers and do what you gotta do! The Government's not going to pay your bills. BULLSHIT!!!!:mad:

I always say if everyone engages in systematic civil disobedience, the system will either change or collapse. Get tickets and ask for trial dates, do not accept a plea. Ask for full discovery to be sent. Places like AH and Belmar municipal courts will get swamped and be unable to cope. They cannot handle a couple of hundred trials a month. They cannot handle thousands of dollars in copying every month.

[hammer4reel]

I always say if everyone engages in systematic civil disobedience, the system will either change or collapse. Get tickets and ask for trial dates, do not accept a plea. Ask for full discovery to be sent. Places like AH and Belmar municipal courts will get swamped and be unable to cope. They cannot handle a couple of hundred trials a month. They cannot handle thousands of dollars in copying every month.

Sure they can , the more money they spend the more they work into the next budget .
Unlike the bucket brigade , they will will use every dollar they have to get 10cents from you

[Broad Bill]

I never thought the day would come when I advocated for ignoring regulations. I've ALWAYS been one to follow the rules, even if I didn't necessarily agree with them, in the hope things would work out prospectively. Never did I think in the case of summer flounder that 25 years of waiting would result in more restrictive regulations, a declining fishery, complete disregard for the stock itself by management and the recreational sector's God given right to share equally in the access and fair distribution of that resource which is clearly outlined in the Magnuson Stevenson Act "MSA". 25 years minimum this fishery has been mismanaged and they continue using the same failed policies to manage the stock. Definition of complete incompetence and lunacy.

ASMFC, MAFMC, NMFS, the Department of Commerce and our local politicians, with a few exceptions, have turned their back on this fishery for the sake of personal reasons and alternate agendas and the everyday recreational angling community including party and charter boat owners are shouldering the price of their arrogance and greed. That's what we've received in return for all our sacrifices which have been many.

Small businesses and a recreational activity in existence longer than all of us have been alive, the fabric in many ways of families, shore communities and third and fourth generation small family businesses are more at risk today than ever.

ASA sits by and does noting. Meetings take place with ZERO chance of causing change. Those meetings are simply a box to be checked as a requirement of MSA and decisions are made without any substantive input from the public and entirely with input from the commercial sector or a select few people with political connections.

Our beloved fishery and sport has been commercialized. If you don't see it, do your research and open your eyes.

Next year when the Galloway meeting is scheduled, not one single person should attend. Send a message. For as long as it takes, boycott any purchases from Berkeley for Gulp and Spro jigs or any of their other products. There's enough people who make knock off jigs to purchase from. If we all need to drag squid and spearing again for a few years, we should consider it and use up your existing inventory. Don't buy products from manufacturers who don't support our plight, I'm sure ASA would eventually be pressured to get on board. Continue patronizing our local charter and party boats and tackle shops who've supported us over these years of ridiculous regulations but we need an organized message and campaign to have our concerns acknowledged and addressed. And if it means ignoring regulations which my entire life I never advocated for, we're at an inflection point where not doing so will be the final nail in this and other fisheries coffin so what's there to lose.

The recreational sector has a God given right to an equal and fair allocation of a public resources and the stock deserves and needs to be managed prudently. If the morons involved making decisions for their own benefit can't come to grips with that concept, why would we make the same sacrifices every year and follow their misguided and one sided policy decisions. It's time to break ranks.

Something radical needs to occur in salt water fisheries management and if we elect to do nothing then we accept being shit on by people who could care less about the millions of people who are rightfully entitled to enjoy and benefit from these resources. We have the numbers, what we don't have is a coherent and executable strategy to leverage those numbers to change what we've been exposed to since the late 90's.

I'd be more than happy to be part of a movement to push this agenda but we need lawyers, tech savvy people, industry leaders, fishing organization who are more concerned about the big picture than their annual tournaments, boat manufacturers, tackle manufacturers, recreational anglers, peripheral small business owners, charter and party boat associations and people familiar with organizing. And if we need a tea party approach, let it begin. Drastically underfunded F&G personnel can't keep up with poachers, how would they keep up with 500,000 recreational anglers who collectively say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" and actually mean it this time.

People may laugh at this post but I'd ask in return "what other options do we have to save one of the most important past times we're graced with having?" If you have an answer to that question, we're all ears.

[june181901]

The only way fluke will survive this new onslaught will be an outbreak of listeria or some other disease that will scare away the consumer! My great -grandchildren will not know the joy of pulling a fluke from the Shrewsbury/Navesink complex.

[Gerry Zagorski]

And our NJ Marine Fisheries Council has 2 vacant positions that have gone unfilled for quite some time now, a Sportfish and Public.

I think these positions need to be filled to restore some balance back to the council

Marine Fisheries Council
Richard N. Herb, Acting Chair (Sportfish)
Dr. Eleanor Ann Bochenek (Public)
Dr. Patrick Donnelly (Sportfish)
Warren Hollinger (Del. Bay Shellfish Council)
Jeff Kaelin (Processor)
Walter L. Johnson, III (Atl. Coast Shellfish Council)
Joe Rizzo (Commercial)
Robert R. Rush, Jr. (Sportfish)
Kevin Wark (Commercial)
Vacant (Public)
Vacant (Sportfish)

[Broad Bill]

Gerry this policy change was enacted collectively by ASMFC and MAFMC. ASMFC has jurisdiction involving decisions from the shore to the 3 mile line. MAFMC has jurisdiction from 3 miles to 200 miles out. NMFS has the ultimate responsibility and backing of MSA and subsequent reauthorizations of overall quotas among other things. Not sure what responsibilities NJ Marine Fisheries has but it seems the state agencies, ASMFC and MAFMC are all subordinate to the feds. Not sure what impact filling two positions at the state level will ever have in the big picture. I'm not saying they shouldn't be filled, whether they're appointed or elected positions, just don't see it moving the needle the way it needs to be moved.

When commercials want something, they don't appoint more representatives. They sue the federal government which is well documented. By the time decisions get down to the state level, it's more a matter of form over substance. This process is broken from the top down, not the bottom up and if it's not in some way addressed at the top nothing will change in my opinion. Substantive changes to manage fisheries first and then sectors on an equal and fair basis will only occur through litigation, period.

These discussions have been taking place for at least thirty years, we're still getting the short end of the stick every year, fisheries are being put at risk and literally nothing has changed. This is a problem which starts at the federal level and trickles down to the states. ASMFC basically fights for allocations and tries justifying their existence. They certainly didn't do the recreational sector any justice with this latest proclamation. This is a big money game, the only way to change it is through litigation, disrupting the flow of money meaning disrupt the supply chain so the Department of Commerce and commercials feel the pain or getting states to go rogue and go out of compliance which has about as much chance of happening as Jerry Postorino playing center for the New York Knicks next year or winning the Boston Marathon. Jerry not disrespect intended, at the time I couldn't think of a better analogy. Love you man, you are the GOAT.

[pddmd]

I can only speak to what I know. This change refers to a single small mesh fishery executed in NC. NJ regulations do not allow for a small flynet fishery.
Last week I chaired a Summer Flounder commercial meeting to discuss 2025. Just as with the Recreational quota, the commercial quota for 2025 is exactly the same as it was for 2024. Directed fishery and bycatch are identical to this year. I can't speak to how other states are handling their quotas(ITQs) but i can say that the 2025 NJ commercial summer flounder fishery will be identical to the 2024 season.

[frugalfisherman]

I always say if everyone engages in systematic civil disobedience, the system will either change or collapse. Get tickets and ask for trial dates, do not accept a plea. Ask for full discovery to be sent. Places like AH and Belmar municipal courts will get swamped and be unable to cope. They cannot handle a couple of hundred trials a month. They cannot handle thousands of dollars in copying every month.

The idea is to not get caught!