Get your fluking in

[frugalfisherman]

Look at Windguru after Sunday.

[Duffman]

Why? 25-30 knots East isn’t good?:p

[Broad Bill]

Main body of fish headed out late last week when we got this most recent blow. Very very scattered pockets of fish is all that's remains, and they'll be gone after this nor'easter comes through. What fish are still around are 90% shorts so for all practical purposes the season is over and commercials are going to do what they do best which is kill all the shorts we've released the entire summer while harvesting larger age groups. Absolute atrocity how this stock is being managed.

[Duffman]

Very very scattered pockets of fish is all that's remains, and they'll be gone after this nor'easter comes through. What fish are still around are 90% shorts so for all practical purposes the season is over .

Agree and disagree. Yup main body of fish will move off but I can bet, according to what I've seen the last 3 seasons, there will be keepers to be had in spots.

Again, I can only specifically speak for the area I fish. But even tho the main body may move offshore, the guys fishing outside of every marina on the SH and Raritan know keepers will be there after this blow. Gorging on the bait pouring out.

I know this doesn't do squat for the head boats as its a small boat/kayak thing but the keeper fluke will be there.

[Broad Bill]

Duffman I don't disagree but the fishery as a whole is a shadow of what is should be. Hope you get your 3 fish limit tomorrow but this fishery is in a death spiral. As they say, even a broken watch is correct twice a day and some people will catch a few keepers and maybe their measly three fish limit but overall the fishery is in dire straits .

[dales529]

In speaking with a charter Capt I respect the main body of fish are still around but quite north of us and up.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong but why talk anglers out of fluke fishing until the season actually ends? Doesn't do much to support our for hire fleet here in NJ! Everyday out there is different. Once it ends then we can discuss the rest but in the meanwhile GO FLUKE FISHING to support what we have left as a fleet.

Having said that we did not find them yesterday except shorts and a few keepers but had a good day on bones. NOAA forecast off a bit LOL

[Duffman]

Duffman I don't disagree but the fishery as a whole is a shadow of what is should be. Hope you get your 3 fish limit tomorrow but this fishery is in a death spiral. As they say, even a broken watch is correct twice a day and some people will catch a few keepers and maybe their measly three fish limit but overall the fishery is in dire straits .

Its a shame to see that probably in my lifetime AHMH will have no headboats with the way its going. That to me is unreal.

[hammer4reel]

Lots of quality fish around still

Monday we were done by 930

Fish are still here but in tight patches

Find those patches they are chewing hard

[Broad Bill]

Duffman I don't disagree but the fishery as a whole is a shadow of what is should be. Hope you get your 3 fish limit tomorrow but this fishery is in a death spiral. As they say, even a broken watch is correct twice a day and some people will catch a few keepers and maybe their measly three fish limit but overall the fishery is in dire straits .

[AndyS]

NOAA goes out as far as Monday and says NE at 10 to 15 (Writing this on a Wednesday)

[Duffman]

Lots of quality fish around still

Monday we were done by 930

Fish are still here but in tight patches

Find those patches they are chewing hard

This right here it was I'm talking about. Capt. Dan and countless other great fisherman are crushing it while regular rec guys are struggling.

[bulletbob]

We have that here as well. Certain fisheries basically in collapse, but a guide here or there that still catches fish and says the fishing is good IF you know when where, and how to catch the remnant... I have never thought that sort of scenario was an indicator of a good fishery.. Even when the Cod fishery in Canada and the Gulf of Maine was in a state of total collapse, and the stock was deemed "commercially extinct" there were still guys screaming about the closure and wanting to catch whatever was left, because they knew how to and where to catch them.. Human nature and all.. There are a lot of fishermen that would be all too happy to catch the last summer flounder in existence in the NY Bight if they could.... bob

[Broad Bill]

This right here it was I'm talking about. Capt. Dan and countless other great fisherman are crushing it while regular rec guys are struggling.

Fish are here but in tight patches. Find those patches and fish are chewing hard. Great fisherman are crushing it, regular recs are struggling! I agree with Dan but isn't that the red flag? Are party and charter boats crushing it? Just read the reports. If you were fishing in the late eighties you've been fishing long enough to remember what this fishery was like when we had 8 fish bag limits, the entire season was productive and not just the last month and September was off the charts great for two to three weeks every year. Compare that to today's fishery. It's a shadow of what it used to be and quite frankly it's only going to get worse if regulations aren't drastically changed.

This is September. The month for years fish schooled up over wide areas with more fish pouring out of the bays everyday. Best fishing month of the year bar none. Now it's sharpies who can find and work small patches in the hope of landing 3 keepers! What does that say about where this fishery is at?

I know I'm considered a wet blanket here. But I went further with NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC trying to draw attention to these problems more than anyone else ever has. And with zero support from ASA or any of the more well known recreational fishing organizations. The only person who helped educating and guiding me concerning the process was Dave Daly (Dales529). I post what I do because we're losing this fishery just as many others have been lost. This one because of it's importance will more than sting. The consequences will reverberate throughout the recreational and commercial sectors and shore communities and small businesses will take it on the chin. Imagine a summer without fluke fishing, it can happen no different than a spring without winter flounder and the consequences that caused shore communities and small businesses let alone the recreational sector.

This'll be my final comment on the subject. You can't win if you don't fight and the recreational sector has become so accustomed to losing it's become our mantra. Fishery is in trouble and year in year out management does nothing and all we do is sit around talking about having the highest size minimums and most extended seasons, neither of which will help the sector or health of the stock. It'll actually hurt both.

[bulletbob]

Fish are here but in tight patches. Find those patches and fish are chewing hard. Great fisherman are crushing it, regular recs are struggling! I agree with Dan but isn't that the red flag? Are party and charter boats crushing it, all you have to do is read the reports. You've been fishing long enough to remember what this fishery was like when we had 8 fish bag limits, the entire season was productive and not just the last month and September was off the charts great. Compare that to today's mess.

This is September. The month forever that fish were schooled up over wide areas with more fish pouring out of the bays everyday. Best fishing month of the year. Now it's sharpies who happen to find small patches. What does that say about the fishery?

You must remember that many guys just haven't been around as long as others.. years ago, we had great fluke fishing right through October into early Nov some years, and you didn't need to go out to rocky areas in 60 FOW.. Those fish were often stacked up 50 yards off the beach, and guys in 14 footers had no problem going after them. I am old enough to remember the days[decades actually!] when there were no stripers.. They were virtually non existent for many many years. No charters or head boats even targeted them. They were a rare by catch for the most part. Even then though, when the species was rarely seen, there were a few guys that knew where a few could be caught, certain times ,certain places, on certain baits, and when they caught some they got their names published in the Asbury Park Press, or the NJ Fisherman. For those individuals, sure the fishing was fine, however they just knew how to exploit a fishery that was in deep trouble, and knew the techniques to catch the remnant.. That is NOT indicative of a healthy fishery by any stretch of the imagination. Got into a recent discussion locally about the total collapse of walleyes in the susquehanna river.. I have had long discussions with NYS DEC biologists that assure me the fish were basically gone.. No young of the year fish, and only a very few large specimens in their surveys last year,, However a local guide says he still has nights where he can catch 20-30 fish.. I catch maybe 1 every 2 years these days, where I used to catch 20-30 a night as well... All this means is that he knows how to exploit the tiny remnant of a once healthy population...

Same with commercials.. They know where the remnants are, when and how to catch them until there are totally gone... Just because a few pros are catching, does not indicate a good population by any means... bob

[hammer4reel]

Fish are here but in tight patches. Find those patches and fish are chewing hard. Great fisherman are crushing it, regular recs are struggling! I agree with Dan but isn't that the red flag? Are party and charter boats crushing it? Just read the reports. If you were fishing in the late eighties you've been fishing long enough to remember what this fishery was like when we had 8 fish bag limits, the entire season was productive and not just the last month and September was off the charts great for two to three weeks every year. Compare that to today's fishery. It's a shadow of what it used to be and quite frankly it's only going to get worse if regulations aren't drastically changed.

This is September. The month for years fish schooled up over wide areas with more fish pouring out of the bays everyday. Best fishing month of the year bar none. Now it's sharpies who can find and work small patches in the hope of landing 3 keepers! What does that say about where this fishery is at?

I know I'm considered a wet blanket here. But I went further with NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC trying to draw attention to these problems more than anyone else ever has. And with zero support from ASA or any of the more well known recreational fishing organizations. The only person who helped educating and guiding me concerning the process was Dave Daly (Dales529). I post what I do because we're losing this fishery just as many others have been lost. This one because of it's importance will more than sting. The consequences will reverberate throughout the recreational and commercial sectors and shore communities and small businesses will take it on the chin. Imagine a summer without fluke fishing, it can happen no different than a spring without winter flounder and the consequences that caused shore communities and small businesses let alone the recreational sector.

This'll be my final comment on the subject. You can't win if you don't fight and the recreational sector has become so accustomed to losing it's become our mantra. Fishery is in trouble and year in year out management does nothing and all we do is sit around talking about having the highest size minimums and most extended seasons, neither of which will help the sector or health of the stock. It'll actually hurt both.

Absolutely agree with most of this .
Guys are lazy and give up now as soon as they don’t catch in an hour .

It’s def not the fishing we had ten years ago when our same group would be throwing back 5 pounders by 8 am on a tourney day .
The quality of the fish also isn’t close poundage wise .

Yet I honestly have never caught so many short 13-16” fish than we did this season .
Seems to be a very large body of those age class fish .

But IMO recreational fisherman throwing back anything that the commercial guys can then reap is never going to help the fishery .

IMO if we even didn’t fish an entire season , they would just catch more .

And since recreational fisherman REFUSE to do anything to help their cause , unless something else stops other states commercial fisherman from raping the resource . It’s def going to be another fishery destroyed .

What I don’t understand is why local commercial fisherman are allowing it to happen .

.

[bulletbob]

Capt Dan.. you always post well thought out and very reasonable replies.. You are in the business, have "skin in the game", yet don't BS about how great the stock is, there are plenty of fish around, guys just aren't keeping up with modern techniques etc.. Thats always appreciated.

In my uneducated opinion, a lot of small fish around is a great indicator.. It means that the fish are reproducing well and surviving, and there is a cause for optimism that the future may be better than the present for the fishery... However, a lot is contingent on letting these smaller fish get old and large enough to become big breeders... A lot of them will not make it long enough to even reach 18 inches.. Mopped up before they get to their wintering grounds, or shortly thereafter.... bob

[Broad Bill]

Keep in mind, right or wrong, science assigns a 25% annual mortality rate to every age class. Combined with the level of commercial discard mortality when these fish are headed offshore and staging offshore in the winter, 75% of the body of smaller fish you mention will be dead in two years. Now add in the stock being pounded every year between September to November by a more efficient commercial fleet, that optimism will disappear. Under those circumstances older age classes will take a decade to rebuild once changes to the regulations are put in place before recruitment levels are restored and the gender / age imbalances created in this stock by the regulation are corrected.