North Carolina 2024 fluke season:

[AndyS]

State officials: No NC recreational flounder season in 2024
The N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries announced the recreational flounder season will not open this year “in order to preserve the southern flounder resource."

Citing continuing pressures on the fishery, state officials announced Thursday that there will be no recreational flounder season in 2024.

The move comes after years of smaller and smaller windows for recreational fishermen to catch the popular fish, culminating in last year's short two-week harvest window.

But officials said even that short fishing period was too much for the already depleted flounder fishery.

"Estimates from 2023 indicate the recreational catch exceeded the quota allowed under a stock rebuilding plan that was included in Amendment 3 to the Southern Flounder Fishery Management Plan and adopted by the N.C. Marine Fisheries Commission," stated a release from the N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries.

[Broad Bill]

So you're aware, that's southern flounder which is a different species than our fluke. But interestingly, they believe the problem is the historical size minimum being used favored the harvest of females which was borne out in a significant decline in recruitment so they implemented a 6 " slot between 12"-18" to harvest more males. Harvest younger age classes with a more balanced ratio of males to females being harvested to protect female breeders and reduce discard mortality. Unfortunately the stock was so impaired by their delayed response to the problem they've now implemented a moratorium. If management doesn't wake up soon, our northern stock will experience the same fate.

Few other factors which should enrage the recreational sector. The commercial sector already gets 70% of the yearly quota and their 2024 season hasn't been impacted at all. Second, bye catch of juvenile Southern flounder and weakfish from shrimp netting in North Carolina is absolutely out of control and not factored into dead discard mortality for the commercial fishery. It's estimated 60,000 lbs. of juvenile 3" summer flounder are killed annually by shrimp netting, can you imagine how many juvenile fish, weakfish and southern flounder, are being killed annually by commercial shrimpers. I remember the recent post questioning where all the spike weakfish we see migrating south in the fall go the following year, there's your answer. Check out the video in the below link, complete and utter waste of a valuable resource by one state. Should never be allowed, no different than what Virginia is doing to the bunker population in the Chesapeake with Omega One. These are coastal migratory species that do not belong to one state and no one state should be able to negatively impact the future sustainability of the stock for their own money grab.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUvgB6R1Xs0

Check out the waste from one trawl at around the 7 minute mark. 4 lbs. of juvenile waste for every pound of shrimp harvested and we wonder what's happening in these fisheries. Notice the number of small summer flounder and weakfish on the deck. Same is happening in our own back yard with summer flounder and that stock will ultimately succumb to that abuse.

[AndyS]

I lived in N.C. for a short period of time and at no point did I see people using a rod and reel for these fish, it was all spear fishing at night in the tributaries.

[kevin kovach]

That's actually incorrect. The flounder species in nc is 90 percent fluke. There are some southern flounder in the southern part of the state but majority are fluke. And I really don't feel bad for them. They used to have the best fluke fishery on the east coast. I remember vacationing there on the outer banks when I was a kid and you could catch 50 a day from the bank at the inlet. Then they let the commercial boats get out of hand with virtually no havest limit about 25 to 30 years ago, ever since it has been going down hill. Now the rec fisherman suffer. Also keep in mind these draggers are still in business. You can see these nc boats off loading fluke in cape may in winter, fishing our grounds around the lobster claw and tea cup. This biomass is largely njs summer fluke. I have seen it first hand , while nj commercial boats couldn't fish because there quota was full. Yet out of state boats could still offload using their states quota. It's really screwed up.

[hammer4reel]

That's actually incorrect. The flounder species in nc is 90 percent fluke. There are some southern flounder in the southern part of the state but majority are fluke. And I really don't feel bad for them. They used to have the best fluke fishery on the east coast. I remember vacationing there on the outer banks when I was a kid and you could catch 50 a day from the bank at the inlet. Then they let the commercial boats get out of hand with virtually no havest limit about 25 to 30 years ago, ever since it has been going down hill. Now the rec fisherman suffer. Also keep in mind these draggers are still in business. You can see these nc boats off loading fluke in cape may in winter, fishing our grounds around the lobster claw and tea cup. This biomass is largely njs summer fluke. I have seen it first hand , while nj commercial boats couldn't fish because there quota was full. Yet out of state boats could still offload using their states quota. It's really screwed up.

SPOT ON.

UNLESS they stop NC commercial fisherman from catching huge amounts of fluke from all the states North of them . Every state should have an issue with them fishing here to Massachusetts to still continue to land in NC because of the large fish house business there

[reason162]

Draggers, yes. But also northward movement of the biomass, along with seabass and probably every other species due to climate change.

https://i.imgur.com/AULOM8b.png

[kevin kovach]

Draggers, yes. But also northward movement of the biomass, along with seabass and probably every other species due to climate change.

https://i.imgur.com/AULOM8b.png

Definitely not. Here in east central Florida we are having a record amount of seabass showing up in the winter months. How climate does change explain a southern migration of seabass where they weren't before? And last week I caught a fluke, not a southern flounder but a true northern fluke.

[reason162]

The shift northwards doesn't preclude fish existing throughout their entire range. It means the densest concentration of stock is moving north - ask anglers in cape cod how many seabass they were catching 30 years ago compared to now.

[Broad Bill]

That's actually incorrect. The flounder species in nc is 90 percent fluke. There are some southern flounder in the southern part of the state but majority are fluke.

My point was I thought the moratorium was only for southern flounder and not summer flounder or what we catch in our local waters. NC commercials have destroyed both fisheries and are doing their best to destroy the remaining summer flounder stock up here pounding them during the winter months. Batsavage is an a$&#@*e and NC could care less about the health of any fishery as opposed to how much money is being brought into the state through commercial operations.

[Broad Bill]

The shift northwards doesn't preclude fish existing throughout their entire range. It means the densest concentration of stock is moving north - ask anglers in cape cod how many seabass they were catching 30 years ago compared to now.

Ask those same anglers how many cod, pollack, winter flounder, mackerel and haddock they're catching today versus 30 years ago. Why do stripers, makos, swordfish, whales, weakfish, tuna etc. still range from the Gulf of Mexico, Florida up to New England and Nova Scotia as they have for years? Why are we seeing more whiting caught this year than the last 30 years? Reverse global warming? Why did Florida see an unusual amount of gator bluefish this year? Maybe the resurgence of sea bass pushed lobsters out of their habitat. Maybe the continued destruction of habitat by commercial netting has pushed them out. Maybe black sea bass are moving because their food source is moving and the population has increased threefold and the competition for food has forced them to look elsewhere. Maybe red hake have moved because of the resurgence of commercial scallop harvest which are needed for the juveniles to survive? Point is, no one really knows for sure. Personally I believe habitat change, commercial pressure and bait displacement has more to do with shifts in biomass concentrations more than science has proven it has anything to do with global warming. Too many stocks seem unaffected. How many summers have we seen numerous reports that the fluke fishing sucked because the water temps were too cold during summer months? For every stock or species anyone can say has shifted north due to climate change, there's probably two to three species which can be argued have not changed their migratory patterns or geographic concentration in decades. Add blackfish to that list of fish which typically never change their yearly migration which was just discussed in a recent thread and their probably more sensitive to water temp changes than most fish.

[hammer4reel]

Draggers, yes. But also northward movement of the biomass, along with seabass and probably every other species due to climate change.

https://i.imgur.com/AULOM8b.png

That movement is partially irrelevant , because those NC boats destroyed their biomass , and now fish as far as Massachusetts to continue their landings back in NC .

If they can’t catch those landings in their waters , they shouldn’t be still getting such a high weekly quota .

Even while it was lowered from 30k to 15k a week , when they fish our waters here they can still keep on average 5 times more a week than our commercial fleet here can

[Broad Bill]

That movement is partially irrelevant , because those NC boats destroyed their biomass , and now fish as far as Massachusetts to continue their landings back in NC .

If they can’t catch those landings in their waters , they shouldn’t be still getting such a high weekly quota .

Even while it was lowered from 30k to 15k a week , when they fish our waters here they can still keep on average 5 times more a week than our commercial fleet here can

Virginia protects their Chesapeake bunker harvest at the expense of all other states. NC protects the harvest of all species including stripers at the expense of all states. Why are Mid-Atlantic States not afforded the same benefits for a biomass which primarily stages off our coast. NC's quota should be changed but you know there's money being moved around behind the scenes preventing that from happening. A few years ago, NY sued for this exact point, not sure what the outcome was. Commercial quotas are still being set based on harvest statistics from 40 years ago and as always there's more focus on commercial harvest and the allocation between states than their is on the health of the stocks themselves. Fisheries management equals $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. We want it to change, changes need to be made at the top and the management of stocks needs to be removed from the Department of Commerce as I've been saying for years. Does anyone hear think Gina Raimondo, Secretary of Commerce, gives a rats ass about the recreational angler or the health of fisheries? It's all about economic impacts. The ocean's fisheries are the last gold rush on the planet involving natural resources.

[reason162]

Ask those same anglers how many cod, pollack, winter flounder, mackerel and haddock they're catching today versus 30 years ago. Why do stripers, makos, swordfish, whales, weakfish, tuna etc. still range from the Gulf of Mexico, Florida up to New England and Nova Scotia as they have for years? Why are we seeing more whiting caught this year than the last 30 years? Reverse global warming? Why did Florida see an unusual amount of gator bluefish this year? Maybe the resurgence of sea bass pushed lobsters out of their habitat. Maybe the continued destruction of habitat by commercial netting has pushed them out. Maybe black sea bass are moving because their food source is moving and the population has increased threefold and the competition for food has forced them to look elsewhere. Maybe red hake have moved because of the resurgence of commercial scallop harvest which are needed for the juveniles to survive? Point is, no one really knows for sure. Personally I believe habitat change, commercial pressure and bait displacement has more to do with shifts in biomass concentrations more than science has proven it has anything to do with global warming. Too many stocks seem unaffected. How many summers have we seen numerous reports that the fluke fishing sucked because the water temps were too cold during summer months? For every stock or species anyone can say has shifted north due to climate change, there's probably two to three species which can be argued have not changed their migratory patterns or geographic concentration in decades. Add blackfish to that list of fish which typically never change their yearly migration which was just discussed in a recent thread and their probably more sensitive to water temp changes than most fish.

Every species is affected differently based on their life/reproductive cycles and migration patterns. Anadromous fish like striped bass have to deal with a different set of climate challenges than summer flounder. GOM cod stock collapsed due to overfishing - but combined with warming waters is deemed unrecoverable despite decades-long virtual moratoriums. Ditto winter flounder. It's the 1-2 punch of overfishing + climate change that nails the coffin shut on many species, and it makes no sense to focus on one while dismissing the other if you're serious about conservation (which you are, Bill).

[reason162]

That movement is partially irrelevant , because those NC boats destroyed their biomass , and now fish as far as Massachusetts to continue their landings back in NC .

If they can’t catch those landings in their waters , they shouldn’t be still getting such a high weekly quota .

Even while it was lowered from 30k to 15k a week , when they fish our waters here they can still keep on average 5 times more a week than our commercial fleet here can

The word "partially" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there - at least we're lucky fluke and sea bass have a population left to shift (and room to shift to, right into our backyard).

You're pushing at an open door here re NC's obscene comm quotas.

[june181901]

Once again I'll beat the same roll on the drum. The commercials are organized and are funding lobbyists in state capitols ( in this case Raleigh) and the recreation anglers couldn't hit the floor if we fell out of bed!

[AndyS]

What is the difference between summer flounder and southern flounder?
Can You Identify North Carolina's Three Species of Flounder ...
Second, the most distinguishing feature between species is the type of spots: Southern Flounder (left) have “non-ocellated spots” on the body, whereas Summer and Gulf Flounder have ocellated or “eye” spots. In addition, Summer and Gulf Flounder each have distinctive patterns

[Capt John]

Fisheries management equals $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. We want it to change, changes need to be made at the top and the management of stock needs to be removed from the Department of Commerce as I've been saying for years.

So have I my friend, so have I.