Slow Blackfishing This Spring

[Gerry Zagorski]

Had a few days that were OK but most were a tough grind still fun but not the great fishing we're used to and a lot of shorts around...

I'm thinking that Blackfish are the new vanity fish so more people are targeting them. Couple that with the technologies like detailed relief GPS mapping and spot lock tolling motors, it's a lot less challenging.

I'm told that the smaller fish swim all over the place but the larger fish usually return to the same areas every year and only migrate east to west. They go east off into the deep when it cools off inshore and come back to the exact same piece of structure each year when the water warms up.

This might explain all the shorts and a lack of larger fish since they are pressured on the same spots every year and sooner or later the spot is fished out. I do however notice a lot more people are into catch and release, especially the larger females and I think that's a good thing..

Anyone else have any thoughts? Is there a Marine Biologist here?

[tuna john]

NY opening before NJ and NY boats fishing off NJ kills fall bite, live market for tog, way too much pressure and majority of population not releasing and just filling coolers. I'm from south Jersey granted lot less pressure but as stated above lot of guys keep 1 or 2 and no females and seems to be helping. Fishing mohawk back in day was best black fishing I saw but those days sadly long gone.

[bulletbob]

As stated, Tautog migrate a limited distance.. "In and out" shallow to deep-as opposed to "up and down"-north and south.. They are homebodies, and as such, are easy to wipe out in heavily fished areas. I am no expert, certainly not a marine biologist, but I still have a remnant of my sight, and am not yet yet senile.. Years ago, the best blackfish habitat was not as easy to access as it is in the modern age, and a LOT more people want to catch them, and a lot more people want to eat them, and will pay big money for the privilege.. a bad combination... We may see the day of a 1 fish limit in the not too distant future... Blackfish are notorious slow growers, and every large one removed takes many years to replace.. sad state of affairs really... bob

[Broad Bill]

Completely agree with points made on the thread. Slow growing fish, too much pressure, spot lock changing morons who previously couldn't anchor on the Titanic now can sit on small pieces, commercial fish pots employed during the spawn, the pressure from live markets and an insane amount of sub legal fish retained in support of these live markets. The fishery will and should be at a 1 fish limit or closed for 3-5 years to rebuild. The stock will not rebound without a completely different approach to how it's being managed. Blackfish will certainly be the next stock we talk about in past tense.

We did it to ourselves. This isn't environmental, it's not climate change or warming ocean temps, it's mismanagement and focus on short term harvest and exploitation of a resource without consideration of the associated long term consequences. People will balk about a closure to this fishery but when you do who do we really have to blame. Black fishing is another stock which was an absolute robust can't fail fishery which is now hanging on for its mere existence.

[tautog]

If whiting, ling and cod were restored and sea bass limits were sane, blackfish pressure would drop a bit.

[bulletbob]

If whiting, ling and cod were restored and sea bass limits were sane, blackfish pressure would drop a bit.

Correct... I can remember[it wasn't that long ago really] when tog boats would sail with maybe 10 people on a nice saturday or sunday in october or early nov... Thats because there were masses of big blues everywhere, day and night, sometimes big weaks would be with them[NO stripers!] flounder were thick in the rivers and bays, winter whiting and ling was right around the corner... Plus the bottom boats that weren't tog fishing were still catching Porgies, Sea Bass, and Ling with Tog mixed in... Just as Tautog has said, everything else that was within reach is gone, overfished, or is off limits, and tog are about the only game left except for Stripers at certain times of the year, unless you want to go 60 miles offshore for sea bass and porgies... Some fish can withstand pressure as they go in and out of range, are more spread out, and there are always some populations that get a chance to spawn.. Tog are dwindling because they don't migrate, are slow growers, and are a species in very high demand.. I find it VERY interesting because I recall vividly when almost NO one wanted anything to do with them... I was around when if you wanted to fish on a head boat with space around you, plenty of room, no crowds, you went on the head boats that went out for blackfish... It was that way for a very long time,, until one day someone discovered that tog were good to eat raw, thinly sliced, dipped in some sort of salty soy based condiment... Quite a few years ago, a mate on a head boat told me he gets a minimum of $25 for a good sized blackfish when presented alive.. Might be even more today not sure.. With that kind of value, I doubt the pressure will ever end, even IF they become a no kill species.... bob

[tautog]

It wouldn't go back to no pressure, but it would help. Sea bass limits have led to the decimation of ling as they are the only game in town for non-fluke bottom boats. Also, when blues are scarce, bluefish boats anchor up in the Hole and hit ling too. Porgies are good when they get here, but that is usually once sea bass opens in the Fall. Don't know what to do with whiting, but I don't understand how the season is open 365 days a year with no limits for them.

[Broad Bill]

If whiting, ling and cod were restored and sea bass limits were sane, blackfish pressure would drop a bit.

Absolutely no doubt, impacts to any individual fishery for the most part will be felt across multiple fisheries. Precisely what destroyed the winter flounder fishery when major cuts took pace with the summer flounder fishery which was completely mismanaged in the 80's losing 70% of it's population. Commercial guys to survive had to switch over and the winter flounder fishery within a few short years was irreparably damaged and the residual collateral damage of the downfall of the summer flounder fishery. Do I blame people for trying to make a living commercially, absolutely not. Do I blame the powers to be for not seeing it coming well in advance, adjusting regulations accordingly to prevent it, absolutely yes.

[Broad Bill]

It wouldn't go back to no pressure, but it would help. Sea bass limits have led to the decimation of ling as they are the only game in town for non-fluke bottom boats. Also, when blues are scarce, bluefish boats anchor up in the Hole and hit ling too. Porgies are good when they get here, but that is usually once sea bass opens in the Fall. Don't know what to do with whiting, but I don't understand how the season is open 365 days a year with no limits for them.

That ship sailed 50 years ago. No different, as just mentioned, that there's a 365 day season for winter and summer flounder commercially. They're pounded year round. There's quotas within the season commercially but overall filling the annual quota is open year round. With today's population, appetite for seafood, world markets. resale prices and advanced commercial technologies I just don't see how any of these stocks survive without a different approach to management. The sea is a much smaller place today and you can't pound stocks year round and expect them to be around for future generations.

[bulletbob]

No easy way around it.. Even the lowly atlantic Mackerel, and once stupidly abundant American Eel are decimated .. I blame the worldwide raw fish eating craze... people around the world, in "advanced" countries pay big money to eat raw fish, and glazed barbecued eels , and the demand for fish is up exponentially compared to years ago... I can remember as a kid, a LOT of people would not eat any fish.. Now people think nothing at all of blowing $100 or more on a skimpy meal of thinly sliced raw fish, totaling only a few ounces of actual fish flesh, along with some skinny fancy sliced vegetable fragments, and a bowl of soy sauce.

When even Eels are struggling you know there are problems.
The problem is demand is outstripping supply for many saltwater species..

I don't think aquaculture is going to be much help, because freshwater fish are not as popular,,, Maybe with time, that will change.....

blackfish are facing the perfect storm.. They are great sportfish, great eating, yet have limited habitat range , don't move around much, are not prolific breeders, and are slow growers. Yet they are in big demand in the modern age. Not a good scenario....They are also targeted by those that have NO desire to follow the rule of law, because of the prices they bring,,,

[ESFISH]

I have tagged just over 1400 tautog for VMRC/VIMS since 2018 on a number of wrecks off Chincoteague Virginia and around the bridges in Chincoteague Bay and have had 315 tag returns. What I have learned is that the Tog I have tagged 99.5% have been recaught at the same wreck or bridge and the average growth rate is between 1"-1.5" per year. When I moved down here 9 years ago Tog did not receive that much fishing pressure but in the last few years it has been another story since it seems every serious fisherman now has a trolling motor with spot lock.

[Broad Bill]

And that as they say is all she wrote regarding the fate of yet another fishery. Interesting post in that it quantifies what people have said. Blackfish are territorial fish with predictable migratory patterns and slow growing. They simply won't be able to survive the pressure the stock has on them today without substantial changes to the regulations in how the stock is being managed to address the attributes as stated of the fishery.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I have tagged just over 1400 tautog for VMRC/VIMS since 2018 on a number of wrecks off Chincoteague Virginia and around the bridges in Chincoteague Bay and have had 315 tag returns. What I have learned is that the Tog I have tagged 99.5% have been recaught at the same wreck or bridge and the average growth rate is between 1"-1.5" per year. When I moved down here 9 years ago Tog did not receive that much fishing pressure but in the last few years it has been another story since it seems every serious fisherman now has a trolling motor with spot lock.

Thanks for that and so what I heard about them returning to the same exact piece of structure is correct. I hear you on the increased fishing pressure, they seem to be the new vanity fish.... Spoke to a few people up in RI, which seems to be the epicenter for good tog fishing now. 10 years ago no one used to fish for them up there and were thought to be a trash fish but that is changing now too.

Hope our marine scientists stay on top of this but sadly, it seems whatever species they manage they screw up even worse.

[bulletbob]

https://conservefish.org/2017/11/13/asmfc-kicks-can-street-tautog/

[Duffman]

Now people think nothing at all of blowing $100 or more on a skimpy meal of thinly sliced raw fish, totaling only a few ounces of actual fish flesh, along with some skinny fancy sliced vegetable fragments, and a bowl of soy sauce.,

That describes my Friday nite to a T. I guess I’m part of the problem:p

[bulletbob]

That describes my Friday nite to a T. I guess I’m part of the problem:p

yeah, that sort of thing is not my bag, I want big mounds of steaming hot well cooked food with some left over to take home if/when I go out to dinner.. I respect everyone's right to eat what they want when they want it, but its my opinion that the worldwide craze[especially in the orient] of eating sushi/sashimi as a quasi religious experience is what has decimated the stocks of fish that had little or no commercial value historically, Atlantic Mackeral/large Bluefin Tuna, were basically useless until people wanted to eat them raw.. Eels were popular, but were limited to a few regional/ethnic markets in the states around the holidays, and outside of a limited smoked eel market, were left alone.. Then the japanese discovered Unagi Kabayaki[look it up], as did sushi addicts all over the world, and that was the end of eels being readily available everywhere.. Elvers are now worth more than their weight in gold.

Blackfish?... In my day very few knew about them, and even fewer fished for them.. Believe it or not a LOT more people ate Blues than ate Tog back then... Then once again, people found they liked them raw, and all of a sudden a big market sprung up for them in urban markets especially in large northeastern cities in the US.. Live fish markets , supplied by local "fishermen" looking for a quick buck, are still selling them, and pay big money.. I am not privvy to everything that goes on in the NY Bight these days, but even years ago when I still lived in NJ, "pinhookers" were a problem, catching and selling fish to help pay for their boats/slips/gas/bait/tackle... I bet they are still out there, operating illegally with little interference ... Its just a bad situation, but I think before long "big brother" steps in and just closes all Tog fishing down, they way canada did with Cod.. I do not welcome that day, I want nothing to do with heavy handed government regulation. However, it seems human beings have very little self control, and NO self regulation.. We just take and take until there's nothing left to take.. We tend to bring restrictions down on our own heads, due to greed.... bob

[Duffman]

Steaming hot well cooked? Steak, tuna , pork chops ? Ugh that’s like eating leather

[bulletbob]

Steaming hot well cooked? Steak, tuna , pork chops ? Ugh that’s like eating leather

Yeah, no parasites with thoroughly cooked food.. Enjoy your raw fish and bloody animal flesh.. Its not me personally, I like food thats cooked well, ... I used to love raw clams, but these days, you couldn't pay me enough to eat even a single one... Raw fish?/.. Yeah not me, thanks... bob

[Duffman]

To each his own. I couldn’t imagine eating venison or bear well done. Trichinosis Be damned:D

[bulletbob]

To each his own. I couldn’t imagine eating venison or bear well done. Trichinosis Be damned:D

Bear????... man that can't possibly be good....

[JettiCrawler85]

Had a great April on the rocks. Plenty of trips with limited out results. Packed the freezer with TOG but it wont last long!

Tight lines!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Had a great April on the rocks. Plenty of trips with limited out results. Packed the freezer with TOG but it wont last long!

Tight lines!

Good for you Jetti. Glad to hear someone had a great spring!