New Regulations for 2024

[Dclark2]

Has anyone heard of when the new size, limits and dates will be determined ?

People maybe want to schedule vacations ETC.......

[1captainron]

Dano.....
CVS is having a sale on Vaseline, better stock up!

[Dclark2]

I JUST MIGHT DO THAT .......................

[pectoralfin]

Proposed changes are: fluke- 28% reduction, scup- 10% reduction, and Black Sea bass- no change.

[Gerry Zagorski]

If history repeats itself which I think is very likely, the state will finalize our Fluke and Seabass regs last minute in the April monthly meeting which usually occurs the first or 2nd Thursday of the month so either the 4th or the 11th. The reason for this is that the feds and the regional councils have to complete their work before the states can do anything to come up with their options for public comment.

Stripers regs will likely be decided before that since we already have emergency measures in place and there's been a ton of focus on them early in the cycle. That and I don't think the states are going to have a choice in the matter and the regs will likely be decided at the federal level unless the majority of the states take issues with them. Like last year, NJ will be the only state to try and push back but we'll get out voted.

Update.... If everything goes as planed, it looks like the final Fluke regs will be decided on the 3/7/2024 NJ Marine Fisheries Council Meeting. Not sure what the options are yet but will keep everyone informed. Looks like Seabass will remain the same as last year.

[PortlyRedhead]

If history repeats itself which I think is very likely, the state will finalize our Fluke and Seabass regs last minute in the April monthly meeting which usually occurs the first or 2nd Thursday of the month so either the 4th or the 11th.


Thanks Gerry for this information!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Proposed changes are: fluke- 28% reduction, scup- 10% reduction, and Black Sea bass- no change.

Going to be really interesting to see how these Fluke reductions are going to play out in our regulations. Fluke are probably the most sought after fish in our waters and tourism and I would think have the most economic impact on all the various businesses that rely on this recreational fishery in our state. We might have a very important fight on our hands here just like we did back in 2017 so stay tuned as this unfolds.

Seabass status quo defies all logic and has for the last 4 or 5 years. It's a crime that we can't get some liberalization since this fishery has been rebuilt as a result of the tighter regulations we all suffered through. Seems to me if you suffer at some point with regulations to restore the fishery you should be rewarded when things get better. Apparently not so with Seabass...

As far as Scup, not too concerned on that end since it's not like we have people and businesses that focus and rely on them.


Thoughts, opinions??

[dales529]

Proposed changes are: fluke- 28% reduction, scup- 10% reduction, and Black Sea bass- no change.

Do you have a link to these proposals? Is this from MAMFC or ASMFC?
Just asking as I haven't located this information.
Thanks

[cletus109]

we can only hope the changes aren't a turn your head and cough event

[hammer4reel]

Do you have a link to these proposals? Is this from MAMFC or ASMFC?
Just asking as I haven't located this information.
Thanks

Hearing rumors of {2} fish over 18 1/2” with a short season
.

Thanks to all the idiots asking for the long season and ridiculous small slot , that we got slammed with the last 2 years .

Hutch wrote this a few months ago.
From Fisherman

. In early August the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (MAFMC) met jointly with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s (ASMFC) Summer Flounder, Scup, and Black Sea Bass Management Board to set specifications and commercial measures for summer flounder, scup, and black sea bass. Members of the MAFMC also convened together with the ASMFC’s Bluefish Management Board to set specifications and recreational measures for bluefish.



In terms of summer flounder, the 2023 management track assessment indicated that the fluke stock was not overfished but overfishing was occurring in 2022 which is expected to result in a reduction of the recreational harvest limit (RHL) by nearly 40% – from 10.62 million pounds to 6.35 million pounds – for the 2024 season.

The 2023 management track assessment found that scup was not overfished and overfishing was not occurring in 2022, which according to the table means that recreational fishermen should see an increase in the RHL for porgies in 2024, from 9.27 million pounds to 13.18 million pounds in 2024.

The 2023 management track assessment found that bluefish was not overfished and overfishing was not occurring in 2022. However according to MAFMC the stock was not fully rebuilt to the biomass target. As for black sea bass, any potential updates to recreational bag, size, and season limits for 2024 will be discussed during the December 2023 meeting of ASMFC and MAFMC.

[hammer4reel]

Commercial guys were at 10000 a week this time last year .
They’re cut back to 3500 a week right now .


.

[Broad Bill]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;580498]Hearing rumors of {2} fish over 18 1/2” with a short season

Thanks to all the idiots asking for the long season and ridiculous small slot , that we got slammed with the last 2 years .

Hutch wrote this a few months ago from Fisherman

In early August the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (MAFMC) met jointly with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s (ASMFC) Summer Flounder, Scup, and Black Sea Bass Management Board to set specifications and commercial measures for summer flounder, scup, and black sea bass. Members of the MAFMC also convened together with the ASMFC’s Bluefish Management Board to set specifications and recreational measures for bluefish.

In terms of summer flounder, the 2023 management track assessment indicated that the fluke stock was not overfished but overfishing was occurring in 2022 which is expected to result in a reduction of the recreational harvest limit (RHL) by nearly 40% – from 10.62 million pounds to 6.35 million pounds – for the 2024 season.

/QUOTE]

All the people who asked for a longer season, I couldn't agree more. People got what they asked for and now everyone's going to pay the price. Whoever decided on a 17"-17.99" slot in NJ missed the mark by a mile. We needed to start harvesting younger age class fish and let the breeders do their thing while offering the stock protection from commercials during the spawn. Neither happened. Commercial operators netting in September and October during the spawn are killing this stock along with the degree of discard mortality from year round netting, conservatively 3 to 4 times greater than what's being reported. The numbers are staggering, management knows it but instead of addressing it they sweep it under the carpet. A paper thin slot, the range NJ implemented two years ago, doesn't address the harvest of the proper age classes but while that decision was asinine, NJ is alone with a slot and it's not the main problem plaguing this fishery and placing it at death's doorstep.

6.35 million lb. recreational harvest limit for 2024 and 2 fish potentially at 18.5", that brings this fishery back to 1993 harvest levels, a few years after the stock crashed, and 3.5" from Emergency Measures under MSA if states go out of compliance with 2 fish @ 22". 30 years of sacrifice, pain and suffering and that's what NMFS, ASMFC and MAMFC collectively delivered in return. COMPLETE incompetence and mismanagement of the resource due to decisions being made for every reason other than what's needed and best for the sustainability and benefit of the stock.

This is a paragraph from the 2023 stock assessment. Two major commercial trawl fisheries exist — a winter offshore and a summer inshore. Summer flounder are also taken by pound nets and gillnets in estuarine waters. Throughout the 1980s, commercial landings ranged from 17.9 to 37.7 million pounds. In 1993, the coast wide quota was implemented for the first time. Commercial landings (which are limited by the quota) have ranged from 5.8 million pounds to 17.4 million pounds since 1993. Commercial landings reached a time series low of 5.8 million pounds in 2017, but have since increased to 12.5 million pounds in 2022. Commercial discard losses in the otter trawl and scallop dredge fisheries are estimated from observer data, and an 80% commercial discard mortality rate is assumed.

2017 wasn't a fight, it was an ambush. 2024 regulations will follow the same pattern for the same reasons. In 2017, the commercial sector got an almost 100% real increase in quota while the recreational sector got rewarded with no increase in quota when you factor in how MRIP statistics in previous years were manipulated. Statistics NMFS themselves have since admitted were grossly overstated.

The recreational and commercial sector combined are harvesting less than half the number of fish today than in the 90's when the stock was growing exponentially. A third grader could figure out where the problem is. How many people are going to pay $200 - $250 a day to maybe catch 2 fish over 18.5" AND those regulations will further hurt the fishery. As will on-going commercial regulations until the three bodies referenced above get their heads out of the sand and address commercial netting during the spawn, protection of the breeding classes and the rampant amount of waste in discard mortality caused by the commercial sector. They should immediately switch commercial to a keep what you catch mandate if they have any interest in saving this fishery. Problem is they won't because the summer flounder fishery is one of only a few fisheries accessible year round to the commercial sector, has year round market demand and commercially benefits every state making up the Mid-Atlantic region.

We can have all the data from all the science in the world, if management ignores it in the litany of bad decisions they've made managing this fishery, it's as they say as useless as tits on a bull.

[AndyS]

Don't forget the Golden Tilefish also.

[jmurr711]

20 striped bass over 12 inches

[pectoralfin]

MidAtlanic Fisheries December 2023 council meeting

[Gerry Zagorski]

Do you have a link to these proposals? Is this from MAMFC or ASMFC?
Just asking as I haven't located this information.
Thanks

See page 2 of this document https://static1.squarespace.com/static/511cdc7fe4b00307a2628ac6/t/65846ea39c21535d7f56d737/1703177893034/2023-12_MAFMC-Report.pdf

[frugalfisherman]

Just do what I do. Make your own "regulations".

[Gerry Zagorski]

Update.... If everything goes as planed, it looks like the final Fluke regs will be decided on the 3/7/2024 NJ Marine Fisheries Council Meeting. Not sure what the options are yet but will keep everyone informed. Looks like Seabass will remain the same as last year.

[hammer4reel]

Update.... If everything goes as planed, it looks like the final Fluke regs will be decided on the 3/7/2024 NJ Marine Fisheries Council Meeting. Not sure what the options are yet but will keep everyone informed. Looks like Seabass will remain the same as last year.

Commercial,guys are already seeing the actual cutback already .
Which was more severe than initially slated .
Since cutbacks are the same across the recreational/commercial harvest .
It’s not looking good .

How many times do they get away with reducing bag limits due to their own bag limit choices ?

At the rate we are going right now , we are headed towards the same path as NC , a closed fishery that ended up opening for just 2 weeks last fall .
.

..

[Broad Bill]

Commercial guys are already seeing the actual cutback already .
Which was more severe than initially slated .
Since cutbacks are the same across the recreational/commercial harvest .
It’s not looking good .

How many times do they get away with reducing bag limits due to their own bag limit choices ?

At the rate we are going right now , we are headed towards the same path as NC , a closed fishery that ended up opening for just 2 weeks last fall .


Is the reduction in commercial quota you're referring to December 2023 or the first week in January 2024. Reason I ask is if the period quota has been attained for November - December 2023, daily cuts will be implemented and it's just their quota for the period being filled. If you're talking about 2024, whole different ball game. January - March historically makes up almost 50% of commercial landings. If your comment pertains to reductions put in place recently for the new period January - February 2024, which January alone historically makes up 20% of commercial's annual quota, that would be devastating news for the fishery and a dire indication of what the recreational regulations will be this year.

If the Pandemic didn't give the fishery a short term reprieve in 2020 and 2021 when foreign and domestic markets were shut down, what we're about to experience would have happened two years ago. You can't continue killing the breeding population of any stock, exploit the fishery during the spawn and expect any fishery to not fail. The consequences of those actions will end with one result and we're about to see it happen again. Think about the impact on businesses and recreational activities if this fishery, like winter flounder did, disappears. It's happening and for the exact same reasons.

For any commercial guys reading my post, for what it's worth, I feel your pain. Running 60 to 70 miles offshore during winter months to catch 30% to 40% of what you were able to harvest last year is a punch in the mouth. But at the same time, something needs to change because the path the management of this fishery has been on for decades isn't working. You'd have to be blind not to see that and if commercial and recreational don't work together to convince the management bodies to change their philosophies everyone, and I mean everyone, will lose.

[Duffman]

So much to process here……

Ive learned I’m an idiot for liking the slot. That really sux since my days of looking like a dock hero may be over.

Bruce keeps whatever he wants and he’s a happy man.

I’m gonna be forced to fish over 60 FOW and use tackle I hate is gonna be the norm.

[Broad Bill]

So much to process here……

Ive learned I’m an idiot for liking the slot. That really sux since my days of looking like a dock hero may be over.

Bruce keeps whatever he wants and he’s a happy man.

I’m gonna be forced to fish over 60 FOW and use tackle I hate is gonna be the norm.

You're not an idiot, a slot is a good thing in spite of what most think. The size slot and spread of the slot is what's wrong. The recreational sector for the last 20 years has been conditioned due to regulations to target larger fish so to most anglers targeting smaller younger age class fish is a foreign concept now. Those same anglers will tell you, if they know what they're talking about, that targeting breeders both commercially and recreationally is going to be the death of this fishery. Can't have your cake and eat it too. People who complain about the slot I believe are complaining about the paper thin slot range and the fact it doesn't focus on the harvest of younger age classes as opposed to the concept of a slot itself. If we, meaning both commercial and recreational, don't start targeting younger age classes and leave the larger age classes to perpetuate the stock and protect the spawn this fishery is done.

And just for what it's worth, even with the wrong slot size it was a move in the right direction after 2 decades of recreational size limits increasing and nobody can deny that it helped the party boat and for hire operators and shore anglers at least being able to bring home dinner after all the money they spent for a day of fishing over the last 2 years. At the end of the day, isn't that what recreational fishing is all about?

[hammer4reel]

So much to process here……

Ive learned I’m an idiot for liking the slot. That really sux since my days of looking like a dock hero may be over.

Bruce keeps whatever he wants and he’s a happy man.

I’m gonna be forced to fish over 60 FOW and use tackle I hate is gonna be the norm.

So sensitive , no one is an idiot because they like being able to keep smaller fish , it’s the way the slot fish was implemented made us over fish by miles .
Lots of much larger fluke were being thrown back daily (going hard against our quota ) looking for those smaller fish . And that was happening even in the river systems .
The slot we got jammed with happened due to some council members wanting the super long season , again being held hard against us. Even if many guys were not catching a huge portion of the season .

It’s all related and intertwined.
End results will now be another harsh cut back .

We should have been able to stick with lowering the bag limit to three fish over 17 1/2” .
But instead because of greed , to get the 17” fish ,and longer season fluke fishing is now again in jeopardy .

Majority of the slot fish we kept the last 2 seasons also exceeded 17 1/2” with very few 17” fish either season .
.

[hammer4reel]

You're not an idiot, a slot is a good thing in spite of what most think. The size slot and spread of the slot is what's wrong. The recreational sector for the last 20 years has been conditioned due to regulations to target larger fish so to most anglers targeting smaller younger age class fish is a foreign concept now. Those same anglers will tell you, if they know what they're talking about, that targeting breeders both commercially and recreationally is going to be the death of this fishery. Can't have your cake and eat it too. People who complain about the slot I believe are complaining about the paper thin slot range and the fact it doesn't focus on the harvest of younger age classes as opposed to the concept of a slot itself. If we, meaning both commercial and recreational, don't start targeting younger age classes and leave the larger age classes to perpetuate the stock and protect the spawn this fishery is done.

And just for what it's worth, even with the wrong slot size it was a move in the right direction after 2 decades of recreational size limits increasing and nobody can deny that it helped the party boat and for hire operators and shore anglers at least being able to bring home dinner after all the money they spent for a day of fishing over the last 2 years. At the end of the day, isn't that what recreational fishing is all about?

Slot becoming 2/3 of our bag limit had us taking way too many fish from the same year class .
Yes smaller than 18” fish needed to be taken . But the way the slot was set gave us way to much mortality quota against us with larger fish .

All that was only to get 1/2” shorter fish and a longer season .
Prefer option before being changed at the meeting was 3 fish at 17 1/2” .

2/3 of a quota should not come from 1 out of 10 years worth of age quota fish.

No differnt than walking into a full soda isle . And saying you can take each take 3 cans from anywhere in the isle . (Spread out against many age classes of fish )
To now making everyone take 2 cans of AW root beer and one can of anything else .
Doesn’t take too long to wipe that tiny section out with EVERYONE putting the pressure on it .

.

[hammer4reel]

What would be great would be if the state would push for split seasons here . Allowing different access at times of the year , for different areas

Early season start for rivers and bays when fish become available . Then stop it when those bodies of fish move out .

Later start for ocean fishing , with a later end date .

While it may be tougher for FG to monitor , it would benefit the fishery .

Start rivers and bays May 1 To September 1.
Ocean fishing June 15 October 1

.

[pddmd]

So
At the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council level. There will be committee meetings held for Black SeaBass/Scup and fluke. Our State must submit proposals to ASMFC in two weeks for approval, if approved there will be a vote at the NJMFC meeting on 3/7/24.
On Black SeaBass status quo, maybe change start or finish by a day, but no other changes.

Scup, could be different. While there is call for a slight decrease, there is also the flexibility to open a Winter season from Jan-April. Advisors commented that they were in favor of winter scup so long as we didn't lose days off summer harvest. Preliminary data looks like that is a distinct possibility.

Fluke will be very interesting. This reduction has very little to do with our performance last year. We were very close to our target. This is a coastwide FMP decision. The original data called for a 42% reduction that was pared down to 28%. We're going to screw you but not as bad as we could.

I will do my best to keep people updated.

[Gerry Zagorski]

So
At the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council level. There will be committee meetings held for Black SeaBass/Scup and fluke. Our State must submit proposals to ASMFC in two weeks for approval, if approved there will be a vote at the NJMFC meeting on 3/7/24.
On Black SeaBass status quo, maybe change start or finish by a day, but no other changes.

Scup, could be different. While there is call for a slight decrease, there is also the flexibility to open a Winter season from Jan-April. Advisors commented that they were in favor of winter scup so long as we didn't lose days off summer harvest. Preliminary data looks like that is a distinct possibility.

Fluke will be very interesting. This reduction has very little to do with our performance last year. We were very close to our target. This is a coastwide FMP decision. The original data called for a 42% reduction that was pared down to 28%. We're going to screw you but not as bad as we could.

I will do my best to keep people updated.

Thanks for keeping us informed here Pat... Just to make sure we understand, FMP = Fisheries Management Plan and it's Coastwide. This means according to the coastwide FMP and the data on the overall fishery, there is an issue with the stocks which requires an overall 28% reduction. So, this is not an NJ overfishing/exceeding it's quota last year problem, correct?

[Gerry Zagorski]

So
At the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council level. There will be committee meetings held for Black SeaBass/Scup and fluke. Our State must submit proposals to ASMFC in two weeks for approval, if approved there will be a vote at the NJMFC meeting on 3/7/24.
On Black SeaBass status quo, maybe change start or finish by a day, but no other changes.

Scup, could be different. While there is call for a slight decrease, there is also the flexibility to open a Winter season from Jan-April. Advisors commented that they were in favor of winter scup so long as we didn't lose days off summer harvest. Preliminary data looks like that is a distinct possibility.

Fluke will be very interesting. This reduction has very little to do with our performance last year. We were very close to our target. This is a coastwide FMP decision. The original data called for a 42% reduction that was pared down to 28%. We're going to screw you but not as bad as we could.

I will do my best to keep people updated.

Thanks for keeping us informed here Pat... Just to make sure we understand, FMP = Fisheries Management Plan and it's Coastwide. This means according to the coastwide FMP and the coastwide data collected on the overall fishery, there is an issue with the stocks which requires an overall 28% reduction. So, this is not an NJ overfishing/exceeding it's quota last year problem, correct?

[hammer4reel]

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/action/final-rule-2024-and-projected-2025-specifications-summer-flounder-and-scup-fisheries-and

[hammer4reel]

Thanks for keeping us informed here Pat... Just to make sure we understand, FMP = Fisheries Management Plan and it's Coastwide. This means according to the coastwide FMP and the coastwide data collected on the overall fishery, there is an issue with the stocks which requires an overall 28% reduction. So, this is not an NJ overfishing/exceeding it's quota last year problem, correct?

According to articals being written . These cuts were based on over fishing occurring in 2022.
That stock assessment said we couldn’t continue fishing with current regulations as it would not allow the biomass to rebuild as suggested .


It’s all intertwined together .

.

[pddmd]

The Feds are using a new "accounting" method that is supposed to help level off the drastic highs and lows of prior years. Yes the Coastwide catch is still exceeding the FMP goals. This is supposed to be a more buffered response in that they are using a several year projection as the target. I'm not sure how much I believe after we had the NMFS scientist who developed MRIP speak at our Council meeting and say it was never intended to be used this way. Falls into the "Best available science" category.
From the Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council
The Percent Change Approach requires a 28% reduction in recreational harvest of summer flounder in 2024-2025. This reduction is needed because the RHL for 2024-2025{6.53 million lbs}falls below the confidence interval around projected harvest for these years, and the stock size is below the target level.

[hammer4reel]

The Feds are using a new "accounting" method that is supposed to help level off the drastic highs and lows of prior years. Yes the Coastwide catch is still exceeding the FMP goals. This is supposed to be a more buffered response in that they are using a several year projection as the target. I'm not sure how much I believe after we had the NMFS scientist who developed MRIP speak at our Council meeting and say it was never intended to be used this way. Falls into the "Best available science" category.
From the Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council
The Percent Change Approach requires a 28% reduction in recreational harvest of summer flounder in 2024-2025. This reduction is needed because the RHL for 2024-2025{6.53 million lbs}falls below the confidence interval around projected harvest for these years, and the stock size is below the target level.


Pat with a lot of research showing a NE movement of fluke yearly . Why are they allowing such huge commercial landings in NC still . Even after shutting down the recreational fishery to a 2 week season last year ?

I would think they should be looking at lower recruitment coming from southern waters that eventually should end up here in NJ .
If they continue that interest due to all the major cutting houses there it has to effect our fishery here .

.

[Broad Bill]

The Feds are using a new "accounting" method that is supposed to help level off the drastic highs and lows of prior years. Yes the Coastwide catch is still exceeding the FMP goals. This is supposed to be a more buffered response in that they are using a several year projection as the target. I'm not sure how much I believe after we had the NMFS scientist who developed MRIP speak at our Council meeting and say it was never intended to be used this way. Falls into the "Best available science" category.
From the Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council
The Percent Change Approach requires a 28% reduction in recreational harvest of summer flounder in 2024-2025. This reduction is needed because the RHL for 2024-2025{6.53 million lbs}falls below the confidence interval around projected harvest for these years, and the stock size is below the target level.

Pat, thanks for your input. The reality is NMFS doesn't really know and probably will never accurately be able to quantify annual recruitment, actual recreational catch, landings or discard mortality percentages, and fails to acknowledge the extensive levels of waste involved in commercial fishing which they admit carries a staggering 80% mortality rate. How many fluke and other species are killed in the process of culling through their catch to retain only those fish bringing the highest market values. The numbers are staggering. I'd bet commercial discard mortality exceeds their entire landings quota for the season. In the link Hammer posted, no changes are in store for commercial measures meaning keep annihilating the stock during the spawn. The fishery will never rebound for that reason alone.

NC and Va. have 50% of the commercial quota and harvest those fish from our local waters almost exclusively in the fall / winter months. They destroyed the southern Chesapeake stock following that profile and will do the same to the Southern New England / Mid-Atlantic stock.

New Jersey's slot has nothing to do with this overall coast wide reduction. If NMFS allows a 100% increase in commercial quota between 2017 and 2018 and four years later in 2022 changes its position because catch is exceeding FMP goals, you have to question why those catch levels were put in place in the first place. It paints a clear picture of an out of control process with decisions being made on bogus and volatile data.

When you peel back all the layers of the onion, the only way any salt water fishery sustains itself is if annual recruitment outpaces annual fishing related and natural mortality levels. As long as the breeding population remains the target of harvest due to idiotic regulations which targets those age classes and the spawn remains at risk every year due to commercial netting, this fishery will be in the same tailspin it's been in for the last twenty or more years.

[Broad Bill]

Pat with a lot of research showing a NE movement of fluke yearly . Why are they allowing such huge commercial landings in NC still . Even after shutting down the recreational fishery to a 2 week season last year ?

I would think they should be looking at lower recruitment coming from southern waters that eventually should end up here in NJ .
If they continue that interest due to all the major cutting houses there it has to effect our fishery here .

.

Easy answer, someone's bank account is being lined. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

More relevant question is why is NC allowed to harvest almost their entire commercial quota during the winter months? This stock is pounded year round and in the winter they're at their most concentrated level offshore and most vulnerable to netting. It's also the reason discard mortality rates are off the charts. Commercials aren't traveling 70 miles each way to keep 14" lesser value fish but those fish come up in the same nets as the more valuable catch and are shoveled back overboard dead.

[Gerry Zagorski]

According to articals being written . These cuts were based on over fishing occurring in 2022.
That stock assessment said we couldn’t continue fishing with current regulations as it would not allow the biomass to rebuild as suggested .


It’s all intertwined together .

.

But it does not appear that it’s a NJ only problem caused by the slot regulations.

[Broad Bill]

But it does not appear that it’s a NJ only problem caused by the slot regulations.

It's interesting this is how the models work. The recreational sector will be penalized because of the slot for higher discard mortality rates but won't benefit from the fact more mega breeders, fish over 18", predominantly females with significantly greater egg production capacity or fecundity are being released and the positive impacts that will have on a sustainable spawning stock and promoting future recruitment levels. Benefits which will only occur if these fish we release every year aren't mopped up by the commercials during their migration and wintering offshore. Door swings both ways but not in the case of the models being used.

[hammer4reel]

It's interesting this is how the models work. The recreational sector will be penalized because of the slot for higher discard mortality rates but won't benefit from the fact more mega breeders, fish over 18", predominantly females with significantly greater egg production capacity or fecundity are being released and the positive impacts that will have on a sustainable spawning stock and promoting future recruitment levels. Benefits which will only occur if these fish we release every year aren't mopped up by the commercials during their migration and wintering offshore. Door swings both ways but not in the case of the models being used.

Exactly
We get hit it both sides . Fish are not available in huge sections of the long seasons .
Yet we are penalized as though they are .

Commercial guys end up with their nets full of the better fish we throw back Oceanside .

And as I said in other posts , ALL. Was done to go to a 17” fish instead of leaving it alone at 3 over 17 1/2”

And IMO to loose what we did for that extra 1/2” hurt us way more than helped us .

On my boat 99% of the slot fish were between 17 1/2 and 17.99 , we had very few 17” fish .

.

[hartattack]

Tired of carping about how Fisheries Managers are out of their mind??
Apply for Appointment to the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council​
Submit Your Application by January 22, 2024​
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Marine Fisheries Service (NOAA NMFS) provided notice of the 2024 request for nominations for At-large members to the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council. The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (“MAFMC” or “the Council”) is one of eight regional fishery management councils to manage fisheries within the U.S. federal waters. MAFMC consists of the states of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina. There are two At-large seats with expiring terms that may be filled by individuals from any constituent state.

The Council develops fishery management plans and recommends management measures to ensure the long-term sustainability of Mid-Atlantic fisheries. Specific responsibilities of the Council include:​

Developing and amending fishery management plans for approval/implementation by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) on behalf of the Secretary of Commerce;
Setting annual catch limits and management measures based on the best available science;
Developing research priorities with scientists and stakeholder/industry partners; and
Conducting public hearings and gathering public input on proposed fishery management actions.
DEC is seeking individuals who, by reason of their occupational or other experience, scientific expertise, or training, are knowledgeable regarding the conservation and management, or the commercial or recreational harvest of the fishery resources of the Mid-Atlantic Region. You must be a New York resident to be considered for an Obligatory seat, whereas At-Large appointments may be residents of another constituent state (New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina). Additionally, individuals who are federal registered lobbyists will not be appointed as Council members.

If you are interested in being considered for nomination on behalf of New York State as an At-Large member on the Council, your application must include:​

your full name, address, email, and phone number;
a statement that explains why you want to be a Council member;
a completed resume noting how you are knowledgeable regarding the conservation and management of the fishery resources of the geographical area concerned and that details:
your fisheries background and experience, including information about your personal fisheries-related education;
members are categorized as coming from the commercial fishing sector, recreational fishing sector, or “other” sector. The “other” sector consists of members with knowledge of and experience in biological, economic, or social sciences; environmental or ecological matters; consumer affairs; and associated fields.
information concerning awards;
a list of committee, board, or commission memberships;
authorship of publications;
other related qualifications and interests;
a statement of your guiding philosophy on the conservation and management of living marine resources; and
information on whether you have attended previous federal/state fisheries meetings and/or public hearings.
NMFS has additional information on their website available including the Application kit (PDF).

Individuals selected for nomination will need to provide additional information, which includes the formal NOAA NMFS application and financial disclosures in accordance with Section 302(j) of the Act and financial disclosure regulations at 50 CFR 600.235. NOAA will also conduct background investigations on the nominees that are selected to serve on a Council. An individual’s appointment to the Council will be conditional until their background investigation has been favorably adjudicated.

If you are interested in being considered for nomination as an At-Large member on the Council, please submit an application to LegislativeAffairs@dec.ny.gov by January 22, 2024. Please include “[NAME]: MAFMC Materials for Consideration” in the subject line. If you have any questions, please email LegislativeAffairs@dec.ny.gov with “MAFMC APPLICATION QUESTION” in the subject line.
​

[baseballman]

Brutal on all fronts, but a two fluke bag limit would be an absolute crime. And to think that I am the sucker for throwing back dozens more fish than I keep every year instead of killing my limit+ every time out.

It is just very hard to make sense of changes in recent years. They are not data-driven, nor do they match the reality of the fisheries they are designed to protect. If they were, sea bass would be a 15+ limit at both peaks with no true closed season.

And has there ever been a bigger non-emergency than Striped Bass in NJ waters? Fishing in all size classes in excellent...and we're being punished for years of our hillbilly southern neighbors continuing their trophy season while our local population thrives.