Solid stripers

[Chrisper4694]

Solid ocean stripers if you could battle through the legions of boats haha... also, a real discussion has to be had about this whole circle hook deal.... gonna have to air that out next podcast episode.

[Duffman]

Discussion as in you are in favor of it or not or if it actually works/helps?

[Chrisper4694]

Discussion as in you are in favor of it or not or if it actually works/helps?

i was gonna touch on all that honestly. I try to base my opinion in reality and logic and honestly, a circle hook (the right type and size) is only as good as the angler is in understanding how it works....which in a lot of the cases, is not that great.

in other words, a snag hooked bunker in the right hands is going to be much less harmful to catch and release than a circle hook in the hands of someone who has no confidence or experience using it.

[Broad Bill]

The only thing an angler needs to know is not to set the hook, just reel. With circle hooks if a fish picks up your bait and swims toward you, there's less chance of a hook up. If you set the hook, there's almost no chance of a hook up. If you wait for line to be moving away from you and just reel, your chances of hooking up are very high and most fish will be hooked in the corner of the mouth as opposed to gut or gill hooked fish with J hooks.

[Duffman]

The only thing an angler needs to know is not to set the hook, just reel. .

That right there, IMO, is the majority of the problem. Coming from an old timer like myself, fishing J hooks my entire life, the action of setting the hook is inbred in me.

No matter how many times ya tell me “just let the line come tight and reel” yanking back on the rod is a really hard habit to break.

Really good topic. It’s a shame it’s gonna get buried in all the “ Epic Slaughter Killer Awesome Excellent Fantastic Best Day and Early Departure Counts” posts

[Broad Bill]

Story for J vs circle hooks. Years ago when circle hooks were just coming into fad, I was fishing from the oceanic bridge. East side on incoming tide meaning current was coming towards me. Adult bunker were everywhere. Was fishing standard fish finder rig with bunker chunks using circle hooks. Was getting hit frequently and missed almost every hit. Reason being bass were picking up the bait and swimming with the current toward the bridge or me. Reeled to them but no luck. Basically even without setting the hook I was pulling the baited hook out of their mouth. After about an hour missing countless run offs, I tried fishing the west or down current side of the bridge to prove a theory. Instant hits, fish ran with the current away from the bridge and simply engaged the reel and fish hooked itself just about every time in the corner of the mouth. Never lifted the rod, pointed the tip at the run off and just engaged the reel. Lesson learned.

One other technique to try which has always worked for us. When everyone is live lining, try taking a fresh bunker, cut it in half or thirds and use the head section or middle section with just a circle hooks, no weight. Cast it into the middle of the bunker school. Larger bass, especially if blues are around cutting bunker in half, will hang below the school waiting for the half eaten bunker to fall to them. The heads and midsection work best as blues will typically hit bunker from behind and heads are what's left to sink to the bottom. You'd be amazed how often that out fishes live lining and results in larger bass being caught.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Great topic here Chrisper and looking forward to the podcast.

I suffer from the same affliction as Duff. My natural instinct is to set the hook on a strike and as mentioned above, you don't want to do that with circle hooks. Let the fish come tight and then just reel without setting the hook.

Another thing I think that tends to work against you, especially when live living adult bunker is using braid. Combine the no stretch quality of braid and a tendency to set the hook and you'll often times pull the bunker from the fish. For this reason a see a lot of guys who only fish mono when live lining. The extra stretch of mono acts like a shock absorber and helps you from pulling hooks.

I'm also on the head bandwagon. I've often seen times when live lining is not all that effective but drop down a head, let it sink through all the commotion up top and wham, you're on. Theory here is that the larger older and smarter fish are lazy opportunistic bottom feeders. They let all the aggressive juveniles chase bunker around and they wait under them looking to feed on the aftermath. Heads can also be very effective if there are no signs of bunker up top but you're marking fish towards the bottom. One thing about fishing heads is you want to make sure you run the hook through the bottom of the fishes jaw and out it's nose so the mouth stays closed. If the mouth is left open it can cause your bait to spin or swim, especially if you're fishing in a strong current. If fishing a strong current you also might want to use some weight to get your bunker head to sink. In this case I usually tie a line finder on the braid above a barrel swivel and and mono leader. This will allow you to switch weights easily to see what weight is working best and if you're on the bottom, it allows the fish to pick up your bunker and take some line without feeling the weight.

Seems like everyone has an opinion on how to hook a live bunker. Some hook it through the to top jaw and out the nose while others hook it in the hard meat just before or behind the top dorsal fin. I'd be interested to get opinions on that.

If I'm fishing weight I'll hook the bunker through the nose, if not I'll hook it by the dorsal. Theory here is dorsal hooked baits are free lined and tend to swim up top where you want them while nose hooked baits with weight tend to swim deeper and drift more naturally nose hooked. This is especially true if you're fighting a strong current.

I also think there is a right and wrong time and place for adding weights. Early in the day when the sun is low and the fish are feeding aggressively up top and you have a slight current, or you are fishing in shallower water, no weight is needed since your want your bait up top. Once the sun is up or perhaps boat traffic puts them down, or you are fishing deeper water, adding a sinker to get your bunker down to where the fish are can make a huge difference.

[Ol Pedro]

in other words, a snag hooked bunker in the right hands is going to be much less harmful to catch and release than a circle hook in the hands of someone who has no confidence or experience using it.[/QUOTE]

That being said, I would rather have an inexperienced person not use the snag drop. Waiting too long will gut/gillhook a lot more fish than a veteran like you. Snag drop is not legal so why not teach them to use circles? What about when you cast net Bunker? No need to snag. Slide an egg sinker on your main line and tie your circle straight on letting the sinker butt up to the hook. Nose or butthook the Bunker. You can get that enticing struggle by lifting the sinker off bottom . I started using circles some 30 years ago for tuna. I had no faith in them until Capt. Rich Dulsky had me tie leader spools with them. Our rentals caught just as many and sometimes more than some of our regulars. My best day Striper fishing(24) was on a circle. Circle hooks have their place and don't work well on everything. With the slot/bonus system that is now in place I would prefer to not fish for larger fish and wait for the smaller fish to arrive. Don't kill what you don't eat.

[hammer4reel]

Lots of guys miss fish with a circle hook because they tie them wrong .
A circle hook that’s snelled and reverse pulled through the hook eye has a much higher hook up ratio.

As it turns the hook as it slides to the corner of the mouth into proper position .


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[fishpro28]

Great topic here Chrisper and looking forward to the podcast.

I suffer from the same affliction as Duff. My natural instinct is to set the hook on a strike and as mentioned above, you don't want to do that with circle hooks. Let the fish come tight and then just reel without setting the hook.

Another thing I think that tends to work against you, especially when live living adult bunker is using braid. Combine the no stretch quality of braid and a tendency to set the hook and you'll often times pull the bunker from the fish. For this reason a see a lot of guys who only fish mono when live lining. The extra stretch of mono acts like a shock absorber and helps you from pulling hooks.

I'm also on the head bandwagon. I've often seen times when live lining is not all that effective but drop down a head, let it sink through all the commotion up top and wham, you're on. Theory here is that the larger older and smarter fish are lazy opportunistic bottom feeders. They let all the aggressive juveniles chase bunker around and they wait under them looking to feed on the aftermath. Heads can also be very effective if there are no signs of bunker up top but you're marking fish towards the bottom. One thing about fishing heads is you want to make sure you run the hook through the bottom of the fishes jaw and out it's nose so the mouth stays closed. If the mouth is left open it can cause your bait to spin or swim, especially if you're fishing in a strong current. If fishing a strong current you also might want to use some weight to get your bunker head to sink. In this case I usually tie a line finder on the braid above a barrel swivel and and mono leader. This will allow you to switch weights easily to see what weight is working best and if you're on the bottom, it allows the fish to pick up your bunker and take some line without feeling the weight.

Seems like everyone has an opinion on how to hook a live bunker. Some hook it through the to top jaw and out the nose while others hook it in the hard meat just before or behind the top dorsal fin. I'd be interested to get opinions on that.

If I'm fishing weight I'll hook the bunker through the nose, if not I'll hook it by the dorsal. Theory here is dorsal hooked baits are free lined and tend to swim up top where you want them while nose hooked baits with weight tend to swim deeper and drift more naturally nose hooked. This is especially true if you're fighting a strong current.

I also think there is a right and wrong time and place for adding weights. Early in the day when the sun is low and the fish are feeding aggressively up top and you have a slight current, or you are fishing in shallower water, no weight is needed since your want your bait up top. Once the sun is up or perhaps boat traffic puts them down, or you are fishing deeper water, adding a sinker to get your bunker down to where the fish are can make a huge difference.

Referring to the shock absorber portion of your post…the one thing fishermen forget is your rod is also a shock absorber. If you are going to fish braid, you have to go with a lighter rod, or a rod with a softer tip. I believe the best rods for braid are parabolic or slow pitch rods.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Lots of guys miss fish with a circle hook because they tie them wrong .
A circle hook that’s snelled and reverse pulled through the hook eye has a much higher hook up ratio.

As it turns the hook as it slides to the corner of the mouth into proper position .


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Great tip Dan... Here's a video of how to tie it https://youtu.be/YeuI2kiMSyg?si=CrrkGFGm_CtGaVxl

[hammer4reel]

Great tip Dan... Here's a video of how to tie it https://youtu.be/YeuI2kiMSyg?si=CrrkGFGm_CtGaVxl

Not exactly what I meant . With standard bent eye you can use any variation of snell knot .

Many circle hooks have a straight eye , going back through the eye the wrong direction doesn’t allow the hook to roll (trigger ) correctly . So that the hook point is turned towards the lip . Otherwise it just rolls it rolls the back of the hook against the lip and slides out if their mouth

Here is a decent video

https://youtu.be/cTXSl84uruI?si=VLRRgm5v3e8ssDt9

[hammer4reel]

Power snell

https://youtu.be/zPnV50yyT3U?si=XUPDlWeFhTej9fhY

[Pennsy Guy]

Very enlightening topic! My fishing is 99% (or more) for tuna and I've been using Trokar (Eagle Claw) live bait hooks for several years now. They are a cross between a J and circle. It sounds like hooking stripers and tuna are very similar-you got to let them run before going to strike. I caught one striper, dropped my other one locking up the reel too quickly. With tuna, the same, don't rear back on the rod, just wait and go to strike and reel.
Stopped using J's years ago, now just circles and live bait hooks. Circles worked for bluefish too, nearly always hooked in the right corner of mouth.

[Jigman13]

The owner mutu offset circles are immediate tuna hangers with live squid and chunking.

Owner inlines and BKK SS inlines are money for bass when live lining or chunking. Let em run under tension and point that rod tip down before engaging the reel. I got used to circles years ago live lining porgies and eels for bass out on the east end.

[2na]

Great video Capt Dan. Thank you.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Yes, thanks Dan!

[Ol Pedro]

Stopped using J's years ago, now just circles and live bait hooks. Circles worked for bluefish too, nearly always hooked in the right corner of mouth.[/QUOTE]

Those were the days Chuckie! A circ!e on a floro or heavier mono leader on a slow night would catch pickier fish where the wire would spook them . Scott Ball came out a couple of nights this season and put on a Bluefish clinic with a circle hook tied straight to his mainline.

[Chrisper4694]

Not exactly what I meant . With standard bent eye you can use any variation of snell knot .

Many circle hooks have a straight eye , going back through the eye the wrong direction doesn’t allow the hook to roll (trigger ) correctly . So that the hook point is turned towards the lip . Otherwise it just rolls it rolls the back of the hook against the lip and slides out if their mouth

Here is a decent video

https://youtu.be/cTXSl84uruI?si=VLRRgm5v3e8ssDt9

Straight eye circle hooks do really well on a loop knot with the free swinging effect.

[hammer4reel]

Straight eye circle hooks do really well on a loop knot with the free swinging effect.

They don’t work as well as a snell
Snelled as posted turns the hook to a better position.
Tie both ways abd drag it across the top of your hand .
The loop knot many times won’t turn correctly

[Chrisper4694]

They don’t work as well as a snell
Snelled as posted turns the hook to a better position.
Tie both ways abd drag it across the top of your hand .
The loop knot many times won’t turn correctly

Idk, my own tests have shown the opposite, loop knot really let's the circle hook rotate freely into position. Heard it from a few other guys too. We just had Chris Lido on the show from the Gambler and he's even more adamant about loop knots with circle hooks than I am.

[hammer4reel]

Idk, my own tests have shown the opposite, loop knot really let's the circle hook rotate freely into position. Heard it from a few other guys too. We just had Chris Lido on the show from the Gambler and he's even more adamant about loop knots with circle hooks than I am.

Are you tying a loop knot , but going through the eye in a synch method ?
Or tying a real loop knot that allows free swinging .
As there is a huge difference in the two , while being the same knot .
One way works as a trigger , the second one does not turn the hook the same way .

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[Ol Pedro]

Idk, my own tests have shown the opposite, loop knot really let's the circle hook rotate freely into position. Heard it from a few other guys too. We just had Chris Lido on the show from the Gambler and he's even more adamant about loop knots with circle hooks than I am.

Has anyone else tried the welded/solid ringed circles? I have had good results with the Mutu and perfect circle versions of these hooks. I haven't done the hand test on these as we used my whole stash on leader spools.
I have used Capt. Dan's Snell and loop technique for some time in other applications. It works with j hooks also.

[Chrisper4694]

Are you tying a loop knot , but going through the eye in a synch method ?
Or tying a real loop knot that allows free swinging .
As there is a huge difference in the two , while being the same knot .
One way works as a trigger , the second one does not turn the hook the same way .

.

I'm talking about a loop knot like you have pictured on the right. Not threading it through

[Chrisper4694]

Chris Lido went into more detail about the loop knot for circle hooks on the podcast, I'll link it below, we just released it. He is definitely more adamant about it than me. I still snell my bent eye circles but I do loop knot my straight ones. He loop knots both.

https://youtu.be/TBbH7J7sJZM?si=zd7dXQ2W_HuxoUM6

[hammer4reel]

Chris Lido went into more detail about the loop knot for circle hooks on the podcast, I'll link it below, we just released it. He is definitely more adamant about it than me. I still snell my bent eye circles but I do loop knot my straight ones. He loop knots both.

https://youtu.be/TBbH7J7sJZM?si=zd7dXQ2W_HuxoUM6

Guess will have to agree to disagree .
Have used many different methods with circles also for a few decades .
IMO snelled with a trigger works better .
Snelled incorrectly , might as well use rubber hooks .


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[Chrisper4694]

Guess will have to agree to disagree .
Have used many different methods with circles also for a few decades .
IMO snelled with a trigger works better .
Snelled incorrectly , might as well use rubber hooks .


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You've tried loop knot on circle hooks and not done well hooking up?

[hammer4reel]

You've tried loop knot on circle hooks and not done well hooking up?

It works , but IMO not as well as a snelled trigger .
The loop or snell debate is far from a new one .

For every good fisherman who talks about loops being the best way , you will find five more who like using a snell .

Much probably depends on all the rest of the variables .
Locked down , free spool engaging the reel .
Bowing to the fish , reeling down on the fish .
In a rod holder or in hand .

Rod , and line type etc .
For set ups we use on the boat , very few fish are missed or lost using a snelled circle .

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[Gerry Zagorski]

It works , but IMO not as well as a snelled trigger .
The loop or snell debate is far from a new one .

For every good fisherman who talks about loops being the best way , you will find five more who like using a snell .

Much probably depends on all the rest of the variables .
Locked down , free spool engaging the reel .
Bowing to the fish , reeling down on the fish .
In a rod holder or in hand .

Rod , and line type etc .
For set ups we use on the boat , very few fish are missed or lost using a snelled circle .

.
Are you using straight or offset circles Dan?

[hammer4reel]

Are you using straight or offset circles Dan?

Can only use inline for stripers .

If you actually meant bent eye or straight eye , I use both .
I prefer the straight eye .

That’s what we also use for tuna and tiles , and mahi

I also use circles for a bunch of freshwater fish. .
Being lighter wire they are normally bent eye .


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