What Scientific Authorities Have to Say About Whale Mortalities

[Blind Squirrel]

https://www.sierraclub.org/new-jersey/blog/2023/06/what-scientific-authorities-have-say-about-whale-mortalities

What Scientific Authorities Have to Say About Whale Mortalities
June 1, 2023
By George Moffatt • Offshore Wind Committee Member

Respected scientific authorities have closely studied whale mortalities off the East Coast over the years and have ruled out any connection between these deaths and wind turbine development activity. This is what they have to say:

Since 2016, NOAA has reported 194 humpback whale deaths along the entire US East Coast. About 40% had evidence of vessel strikes or fishing gear entanglement. NOAA had an independent team of scientists review the data and determine next steps for investigation.

NOAA’s position on sound surveys used for preliminary wind farm development is as follows: “There is no evidence that noise resulting from wind development-related site characterization surveys could potentially cause mortality of whales, and there are no specific links between recent large whale mortalities and currently ongoing surveys. These are geological and geophysical surveys conducted by wind energy developers. We will continue to gather data to help us determine the cause of death for these mortality events.”

This February, the Marine Mammal Commission, an independent government agency, also exonerated offshore windfarms. The commission, which has made marine mammal deaths a priority for investigation, rejected a link between mortality events and offshore wind energy development. “Although these [deaths] have generated media interest and public scrutiny, humpback whale strandings are not new,” the commission said. On the subject of right whales and their alarming decline (fewer than 350 remain), the commission said, “sub-lethal effects of ship strikes and entanglement can impair the growth and reproduction of right whales and further impair their recovery.”

And Rutgers University’s Offshore Wind Energy Collaborative has stated, “There is no evidence linking whale mortalities to any one specific factor, including offshore wind development…. Wind acoustic surveys are of high frequency or lower intensity low frequency which are harder for baleen whales—including humpback whales—to hear.”

The collaborative also stated, “Decisions, particularly those as paramount as calls to shut down the development of a climate-mitigating renewable energy, need to be based on scientific data and solid evidence and consider the entirety of factors contributing to observed or perceived impacts.”

This leads us to an overlooked reality: the menhaden—a moveable feast to whales—are swimming farther north and closer to the coastline, following the climate-driven rising ocean temperatures. “A primary food source of humpback whales, Atlantic menhaden have been increasing in biomass in the region since the 1980s, and anecdotal observations suggest that their distributions have been shifting closer to shore and staying later into winter. We do not know why. Coincidentally, these nearshore areas are where juvenile humpbacks have been observed feeding at the surface, potentially increasing susceptibility to vessel strikes or entanglement,” the Rutgers collaborative stated.

But these evidence-based conclusions have not been accepted by opponents of offshore windfarms. And remarkably, they also are ignoring the recent dire warning from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The international research agency is warning that, with Earth’s surface temperatures already 1.09°C warmer since the late 1800s, the climate crisis “has already arrived” and the critical, threshold 1.5°C warming mark will be reached or exceeded in the early 2030s, bringing on extreme heatwaves, ocean level rise of 10 to 30 inches, desertification of an additional 7% of the Earth’s land area, and devastation to the world’s coral reefs.

These findings should have everyone clamoring for the clean energy of ocean windfarms and ignoring disinformation promulgated by oil and gas interests and other naysayers. The New York Times and The Intercept, another respected investigative media source, have identified the fossil fuel industry–funded Caeser Rodney Institute as a “right-leaning nonprofit” that is leading the opposition to ocean windfarms, along with its spinoff, the American Coalition for Ocean Protection, with chapters in NY and NJ.

[hammer4reel]

Keep drinking the koolaid .
Not 1 single whale death since they forced them to stop doing the soundings .
No more distressed dolphins etc .

All just coincidence the highest mortality (30 times ) happened while soundings were going on .

The offshore wind farms will cost us dearly for the rest of our lifetimes .
Great dumb ass’s don’t even realize they are just polluting another food source .

.

[togzilla]

Do you have any independent thoughts of your own Blind Idiot or do you just post govt. propaganda? You have to be an idiot or corrupt not to see the connection with the seismic testing and whale deaths. The statements you post are from govt. funded agencies and research institutions that have a vested interest in promoting what the govt. tells them to say otherwise they lose their funding. Follow the money and you will find the truth!

[1captainron]

Probably the same Scientist's that got us where we are today regarding fish stocks, shitty open & closures, unrealistic catch & bag limits, all for the greater good.....
Or the one's that tow the line and say what they are paid to say?

[Meat Hunter]

The Sierra Club would love to see every single fishing boat parked!!! And that's basically what they're doing in California.

It hurts when their agenda has consequences..... this time it's in the form of dead whales.

The wind farms are destroying the entire N.Y./Jersey Coast in short order.


Meat Hunter

[Blind Squirrel]

Keep drinking the koolaid .
Not 1 single whale death since they forced them to stop doing the soundings .
No more distressed dolphins etc .

All just coincidence the highest mortality (30 times ) happened while soundings were going on .

The offshore wind farms will cost us dearly for the rest of our lifetimes .
Great dumb ass’s don’t even realize they are just polluting another food source .

.
Congrats on your live release of at least one 50+ pound striped bass, Captain Dan

[Blind Squirrel]

Do you have any independent thoughts of your own Blind Idiot or do you just post govt. propaganda? You have to be an idiot or corrupt not to see the connection with the seismic testing and whale deaths. The statements you post are from govt. funded agencies and research institutions that have a vested interest in promoting what the govt. tells them to say otherwise they lose their funding. Follow the money and you will find the truth!
Please feel free to read the article I posted. :)

[tautog]

Please feel free to read the article I posted. :)

Everyone quotes in your article is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms. Might as well post an article saying smoking is safe from the tobacco industry.

[Blind Squirrel]

Everyone quotes in your article is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms. Might as well post an article saying smoking is safe from the tobacco industry.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

[Capt Sal]

Do you mean to tell me all of you people don't trust our Government??? About as far as you could throw Christie!!!

[Meat Hunter]

And one of the Sierra Club's biggest donor is..... LOL Exxon Mobil.


Meat Hunter

[Dawn Treader]

So the government says 40% of deaths showed signs of ship strikes and gear injury. What caused the death of the other 60%? They really don’t know do they?

[Blind Squirrel]

So the government says 40% of deaths showed signs of ship strikes and gear injury. What caused the death of the other 60%? They really don’t know do they?
Ask the science-deniers on here.

[Blind Squirrel]

And one of the Sierra Club's biggest donor is..... LOL Exxon Mobil.


Meat Hunter
The voices in your head are not always the most reliable, MH :p
https://www.sierraclub.org/maryland/baltimore-ico/donors

[Meat Hunter]

You're donor list is only Baltimore.

Meat Hunter

[shresearchdude]

Hello Blind Squirrel,

Good info and I noticed that you didn't point fingers at anyone?? What's up with that? There's many that read posts that only offer finger pointing and making their own assessments about who is wrong or to blame without offering any facts or links to find out more info.


I'm not sure if anyone else noticed that you included links for more information.

Oh and some other facts as they are recorded of the last two Humpback whale deaths, technically not a stranding.

Via The Marine Mammal Stranding Center. Friday June 2,2023.

"Today, our stranding network partners, Atlantic Marine Conservation Society & Marine Mammal Stranding Center, performed necropsies on the two deceased humpback whales that were first seen near Wainscott, NY & Raritan Bay, NJ on Wed.
On Thur, the whale drifted into Shinnecock Inlet, & was brought to shore in Hampton Bays, Southampton. The examination showed that it was a 47 ft long male. While this carcass was heavily decomposed, scientists observed bruising in the blubber & muscle on both sides of the head. The cause of death was suspected blunt force trauma, & samples were collected for further analysis. The whale was buried on the beach.

Also, on Thur, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers & NJ Fish & Wildlife Service towed the whale from Raritan Bay to Gateway National Recreation Area in Sandy Hook, NJ. Preliminary results indicate that this was a 28 ft long female. This animal had bruises, lacerations & fractures in several places across its body, including fractures on its skull & left pectoral fin, which had been severed. The preliminary cause of death is suspect blunt & sharp force trauma consistent with vessel strike, & samples were collected for further analysis. The whale was buried on the beach.
While these whales were seen on the same day, their different levels of decomposition indicates that these strandings were not related.


Many thanks to those involved: National Park Service, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Headquarters, NYS Department of Environmental Conservation, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection, New Jersey Fish & Wildlife, NOAA Office of Law Enforcement, Atlantic Marine Conservation Society, Marine Mammal Stranding Center, Whale and Dolphin Conservation, Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, Shinnecock Indian Nation, Suffolk County Parks, Town of Southampton, Southampton Bay Constables, Suffolk County Public Works. Credit: Michael McKenna & AMSEAS"




https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/marine-life-distress/2016-2023-humpback-whale-unusual-mortality-event-along-atlantic-coast
https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/Transcript-011823-NOAA-Fisheries-Media-Teleconference-East-Coast-whale-strandings-508.pdf

[tautog]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem


You need to read your own definition. I did not attack anyone's character or personal traits. I did not say they were stupid or Communists which would be an ad hominem attack. I was just pointing out that every expert in your article worked for or received funding from offshore wind concerns. That is a fact, not a logical fallacy. Having a strong incentive for offshore wind to succeed does not make their research automatically invalid, but it does mean that it should be questioned and double checked. That is the scientific method. It is curious that the proven link between military sonar and cetacean injury would not apply in this case. It is also curious that this marked increase in whale deaths occurred simultaneously with the offshore testing. I think this should be explained better than the trust me bro argument that most of our government officials are making. Their record on these types of things as spotty at best.

[Blind Squirrel]

You're donor list is only Baltimore.

Meat Hunter
You made the claim, MH, so let's see your donor list.

[Gumada]

So why did offshore wind need “take” authorizations for thousands of cetaceans to harass, harm or kill if they aren’t causing deaths ?

[Blind Squirrel]

So why did offshore wind need “take” authorizations for thousands of cetaceans to harass, harm or kill if they aren’t causing deaths ?
Who issued these alleged "'take' authorizations," Gummy? Link?

[Blind Squirrel]

You need to read your own definition. I did not attack anyone's character or personal traits. I did not say they were stupid or Communists which would be an ad hominem attack. I was just pointing out that every expert in your article worked for or received funding from offshore wind concerns. That is a fact, not a logical fallacy. Having a strong incentive for offshore wind to succeed does not make their research automatically invalid, but it does mean that it should be questioned and double checked. That is the scientific method. It is curious that the proven link between military sonar and cetacean injury would not apply in this case. It is also curious that this marked increase in whale deaths occurred simultaneously with the offshore testing. I think this should be explained better than the trust me bro argument that most of our government officials are making. Their record on these types of things as spotty at best.
You said "Everyone [quoted] in your article is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms," which is classic ad hominem. You attacked the credibility & character of the messenger without making any attempt to address the underlying science.

[Broad Bill]

Checks and balances. You can argue the points of this thread forever and most people would be of the same opinion they currently have. Science used by groups without a vested interest in the outcome will always results in different decisions, perspectives, truths and priorities than data used by groups who have a vested interest in those outcomes like NOAA and the Department of Energy. If we're ever to know exactly what's happened to these marine mammals precisely at the time seismic testing for OSWF development commenced, take NOAA out of the picture and get independent institutions to perform necropsies on the remains. NOAA will NEVER publicly admit anything about these deaths that would put the Department of Energy or WF development at risk. Most of these deaths occurred with the commencement of seismic testing for OSWF development and stopped when the testing stopped. That's all anybody really needs to know. If you think anything published by the government is going to indict the government, it just doesn't work that way. Draw your own conclusions but in the process of doing so the application of common sense will probably give you a better indication of what actually happened than the information being released by the government.

[bbfisherman]

https://www.science.org/content/article/navy-admits-sonar-killed-whales

[Blind Squirrel]

https://www.science.org/content/article/navy-admits-sonar-killed-whales
The article is dated January 7, 2002

[Blind Squirrel]

https://www.science.org/content/article/navy-admits-sonar-killed-whales
This is from the same source, but nearly 2 decades later. There's no mention of "wind," "turbine," or "sonar"...

Following whale deaths, Chilean researchers call for greater protections
Ship collisions prompt calls for tighter regulations and warning systems
https://www.science.org/content/article/following-whale-deaths-chilean-researchers-call-greater-protections

[bbfisherman]

Blind Squirrel. Read the article!!!Sonar is absolutely mentioned!!!The article is old but that doesn't mean it's not true. So your take on things you ignore an article where the navy admits sonar causes problems with marine life and FALSELY state sonar is not mentioned which is the whole point of the article. Also since when does the date when an article is printed have to do with the facts of the matter. Your agenda is false and you refuse to read or believe any facts concerning sonar. What is you scientific background? Zero I assume.

[jbigtime]

So if going back to 2016 the data shows 40% of the whale deaths are related to vessel strikes I would be interested in the results of a smaller sample size. Including multiple years of data from before the sonar for the wind farms was deployed absolutely corrupts the results of the study and manipulates the results to show a higher percentage of deaths related to vessel strikes than if you took a smaller sample size, like perhaps a rolling 12 month view from June 2022 to June 2023. We manipulate sales data at my job to keep Wall Street happy every month and quarter. The same data analytics went into this study.

[Broad Bill]

If anyone saw the video taken by a commercial fisherman of the whale floundering on the surface obviously in distress right after the seismic testing vessel passed, you'd get the picture. The whale was completely disoriented. If they lose their sense of direction, orientation and ability to sound, navigate and feed, eventually there's a good chance they'll be struck by a vessel. Doesn't mean a ship strike or blunt force trauma killed them, what caused that to happen did.

Mammals have built in sonar and are very aware of surrounding boat traffic. When that built-in defense mechanism is altered by seismic testing, all these mammals become significantly more vulnerable to vessel strikes. For anyone to believe anything else, I'd agree with Hammer that you're drinking the Kool-Aid NOAA is dishing out. 60 years of never seeing this many mammals beached which 100% coincides with seismic testing should be proof enough for everyone to know what's actually taking place and the damage being caused to the ecosystem which begs the question whether that damage is just the tip of the iceberg of what lies ahead.

[Blind Squirrel]

Checks and balances. You can argue the points of this thread forever and most people would be of the same opinion they currently have. Science used by groups without a vested interest in the outcome will always results in different decisions, perspectives, truths and priorities than data used by groups who have a vested interest in those outcomes like NOAA and the Department of Energy. If we're ever to know exactly what's happened to these marine mammals precisely at the time seismic testing for OSWF development commenced, take NOAA out of the picture and get independent institutions to perform necropsies on the remains. NOAA will NEVER publicly admit anything about these deaths that would put the Department of Energy or WF development at risk. Most of these deaths occurred with the commencement of seismic testing for OSWF development and stopped when the testing stopped. That's all anybody really needs to know. If you think anything published by the government is going to indict the government, it just doesn't work that way. Draw your own conclusions but in the process of doing so the application of common sense will probably give you a better indication of what actually happened than the information being released by the government.
Since you apparently believe there's a huge government-wide conspiracy to fool you, please cite some of the relevant whale research from these "groups without a vested interest in the outcome."

[Blind Squirrel]

If anyone saw the video taken by a commercial fisherman of the whale floundering on the surface obviously in distress right after the seismic testing vessel passed, you'd get the picture. The whale was completely disoriented. If they lose their sense of direction, orientation and ability to sound, navigate and feed, eventually there's a good chance they'll be struck by a vessel. Doesn't mean a ship strike or blunt force trauma killed them, what caused that to happen did.

Mammals have built in sonar and are very aware of surrounding boat traffic. When that built-in defense mechanism is altered by seismic testing, all these mammals become significantly more vulnerable to vessel strikes. For anyone to believe anything else, I'd agree with Hammer that you're drinking the Kool-Aid NOAA is dishing out. 60 years of never seeing this many mammals beached which 100% coincides with seismic testing should be proof enough for everyone to know what's actually taking place and the damage being caused to the ecosystem which begs the question whether that damage is just the tip of the iceberg of what lies ahead.
So the seismic testing that's been done for decades to map offshore oil & gas reserves does little harm to the ecosystem, but marine mammals become "completely disoriented" if the seismic testing's done by the wind turbine industry? :confused:
Please post this "video taken by a commercial fisherman of the whale floundering on the surface obviously in distress right after the seismic testing vessel passed," so the rest of us can "get the picture" too. :)

[Blind Squirrel]

Blind Squirrel. Read the article!!!Sonar is absolutely mentioned!!!The article is old but that doesn't mean it's not true. So your take on things you ignore an article where the navy admits sonar causes problems with marine life and FALSELY state sonar is not mentioned which is the whole point of the article. Also since when does the date when an article is printed have to do with the facts of the matter. Your agenda is false and you refuse to read or believe any facts concerning sonar. What is you scientific background? Zero I assume.
:rolleyes: rpt: This is from the same source, but nearly 2 decades later. There's no mention of "wind," "turbine," or "sonar"... :rolleyes:

Following whale deaths, Chilean researchers call for greater protections
Ship collisions prompt calls for tighter regulations and warning systems
https://www.science.org/content/arti...er-protections

[Broad Bill]

Since you apparently believe there's a huge government-wide conspiracy to fool you, please cite some of the relevant whale research from these "groups without a vested interest in the outcome."

You missed the entire point of my post so either learn how to interpret what people are posting or stop wasting people's time.

[Broad Bill]

Testing is done in different areas and by different techniques which will have a different impact on mammals inhabiting those areas or in certain cases not inhabiting those areas. As far as the videos concerned, it's not my video and therefore not my video to post even though I've seen it. It's horrific. The video was from somebody who does post on this site and if he chooses to post it that's his decision to do so. If you saw it and took the time to understand the story behind it your views about impacts of OSWF seismic testing might be different than politically biased bull&$&! articles you're posting. God gave you a brain, use it as opposed to listening to articles written by the government which are slanted toward the benefits of a multi hundred billion dollar initiative they're driving.

[Blind Squirrel]

You missed the entire point of my post so either learn how to interpret what people are posting or stop wasting people's time.
The entire point of your post is the US government is bad and we should only trust these "groups without a vested interest in the outcome." Who are these trustworthy groups, what methodologies did they use, and what are their peer-reviewed conclusions?

[Blind Squirrel]

Testing is done in different areas and by different techniques which will have a different impact on mammals inhabiting those areas or in certain cases not inhabiting those areas. As far as the videos concerned, it's not my video and therefore not my video to post even though I've seen it. It's horrific. The video was from somebody who does post on this site and if he chooses to post it that's his decision to do so. If you saw it and took the time to understand the story behind it your views about impacts of OSWF seismic testing might be different than politically biased bull&$&! articles you're posting. God gave you a brain, use it as opposed to listening to articles written by the government which are slanted toward the benefits of a multi hundred billion dollar initiative they're driving.
rpt: So the seismic testing that's been done for decades to map offshore oil & gas reserves does little harm to the ecosystem, but marine mammals become "completely disoriented" if the seismic testing's done by the wind turbine industry?
The video you can't share here must be quite remarkable if it shows why a whale was "floundering on the surface obviously in distress right after the seismic testing vessel passed."

[Broad Bill]

rpt: So the seismic testing that's been done for decades to map offshore oil & gas reserves does little harm to the ecosystem, but marine mammals become "completely disoriented" if the seismic testing's done by the wind turbine industry?
The video you can't share here must be quite remarkable if it shows why a whale was "floundering on the surface obviously in distress right after the seismic testing vessel passed."

Like I said it's not my video to share, it's the decision of the person who took the video whether they wish to post it here or not. Unless you've seen it, maybe you should reserve judgement.

[Broad Bill]

The entire point of your post is the US government is bad and we should only trust these "groups without a vested interest in the outcome." Who are these trustworthy groups, what methodologies did they use, and what are their peer-reviewed conclusions?

If you think peer review is driving a 100 plus billion dollar investment in OSWF development, you're delusional.

[Gumada]

Who issued these alleged "'take' authorizations," Gummy? Link?

ITA’s are issued by NOAA fisheries. There are different levels pertaining to harass, harm or kill. OSW has authorization for all levels.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/permit/incidental-take-authorizations-under-marine-mammal-protection-act

[Blind Squirrel]

ITA’s are issued by NOAA fisheries. There are different levels pertaining to harass, harm or kill. OSW has authorization for all levels.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/permit/incidental-take-authorizations-under-marine-mammal-protection-act
Thanks, Gummy. It's good to know that OSW is following the rules.

[Blind Squirrel]

Like I said it's not my video to share, it's the decision of the person who took the video whether they wish to post it here or not. Unless you've seen it, maybe you should reserve judgement.
So no one should express an opinion on this subject without looking at an amazing video you won't share on here, BB. Got it. :p

[Blind Squirrel]

If you think peer review is driving a 100 plus billion dollar investment in OSWF development, you're delusional.

rpt: Who are these ["groups without a vested interest in the outcome"], what methodologies did they use, and what are their peer-reviewed conclusions?

[Skolmann]

You need to read your own definition. I did not attack anyone's character or personal traits. I did not say they were stupid or Communists which would be an ad hominem attack. I was just pointing out that every expert in your article worked for or received funding from offshore wind concerns. That is a fact, not a logical fallacy. Having a strong incentive for offshore wind to succeed does not make their research automatically invalid, but it does mean that it should be questioned and double checked. That is the scientific method. It is curious that the proven link between military sonar and cetacean injury would not apply in this case. It is also curious that this marked increase in whale deaths occurred simultaneously with the offshore testing. I think this should be explained better than the trust me bro argument that most of our government officials are making. Their record on these types of things as spotty at best.

Kirk, you nailed it !!!!

[Blind Squirrel]

Kirk, you nailed it !!!!

"Everyone quote[d] in your article is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms. Might as well post an article saying smoking is safe from the tobacco industry."—tautog

[AndrewT]

You’re a politician’s dream, Squirrel.

[Blind Squirrel]

You’re a politician’s dream, Squirrel.
I'm not the topic here, Andy.

[Gumada]

Thanks, Gummy. It's good to know that OSW is following the rules.

Now answer my question squirrel nuts, why do they need a “take” authorization if they aren’t harming cetaceans ?

[Blind Squirrel]

Do you mean to tell me all of you people don't trust our Government??? About as far as you could throw Christie!!!
Do you mean to tell me all of you people don't trust facts & science, and get all of your talking points from Big Oil & Fox "News"??? :rolleyes:

[Blind Squirrel]

Now answer my question squirrel nuts, why do they need a “take” authorization if they aren’t harming cetaceans ?
Why do you need auto insurance if you're not causing any accidents, Gummy? What other industries need ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA? :eek:

[Gumada]

Why do you need auto insurance if you're not causing any accidents, Gummy? What other industries need ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA? :eek:



Squirrel Nuts answer the question....just like a lib can’t answer a question

[Blind Squirrel]

Squirrel Nuts answer the question....just like a lib can’t answer a question
So OSW is THE ONLY industry that needs ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA, Gumster?:eek:

[Ol Pedro]

Do you mean to tell me all of you people don't trust facts & science, and get all of your talking points from Big Oil & Fox "News"??? :rolleyes:

BS, you must get off on stirring the shxt. Isn't Noaa the fox news of science? And like so many other government agency's are filled with appointees that are just shills for the party that is now in power? Just so many talking heads who in some cases don't have a background in the field that they are working in. Push the green agenda ! We don't care how many mammals, birds, or fish it kills. We don't care about the pollution it causes or the jobs lost. Just lie or omit the real facts. Deny, deny, deny. Its green and the internet said it's good so it has to be true.
Science is no good if it's biased or contradicts what you have seen with your own eyes.











You

[Blind Squirrel]

BS, you must get off on stirring the shxt. Isn't Noaa the fox news of science? And like so many other government agency's are filled with appointees that are just shills for the party that is now in power? Just so many talking heads who in some cases don't have a background in the field that they are working in. Push the green agenda ! We don't care how many mammals, birds, or fish it kills. We don't care about the pollution it causes or the jobs lost. Just lie or omit the real facts. Deny, deny, deny. Its green and the internet said it's good so it has to be true.
Science is no good if it's biased or contradicts what you have seen with your own eyes.


So you've seen seismic testing for wind turbines kill cetaceans, birds, fish, & even jobs with your own eyes, OP? What does offshore gas & oil drilling do? :eek:

[captbogan]

So you've seen seismic testing for wind turbines kill cetaceans, birds, fish, & even jobs with your own eyes, OP? What does offshore gas & oil drilling do? :eek:

These scientists are not independent. They are hired by NOAA and universities like Duke and Rutgers and others who have taken lots of money from offshore wind. I was not completely against the windmills until I started looking at how dangerous they are to the enviroment. It is very insulting that from the beginning, NOAA stated that there would be an "Acceptable number of whale mortality" associtated with testing and development for the offshore windmills --but now blaming it all on boat traffic and commercial gear.

I don't need to be a scientist to know that, at the same time testing was happening, more dead whales than we've ever heard of, washed up on the beachs. Doubtful coincidence.

Also, from what I've read, overall windmills are very inefficient. It's pretty bad when the likes of Greta Thunberg is against them:rolleyes:

[Ol Pedro]

So you've seen seismic testing for wind turbines kill cetaceans, birds, fish, & even jobs with your own eyes, OP? What does offshore gas & oil drilling do? :eek:
I was talking of the Green Movement. I was being too general even though they are related.
I have seen a wind turbine kill a Golden Eagle and walked under them by my Fathers home. Lots of bird carcasses around them. The same thing will happen offshore. Saw a Porpoise pod recently running from something as we went offshore. The seismic boat was within a quarter mile of us. I have not seen seismic testing kill but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. BS, you can use the Whitey Bulger defence, If no-one saw it then it didn't happen.
Natural Gas and oil drilling are supplying the fuel for most of the offshore projects. Boats and heavy equipment need diesel to run. Don't they use petroleum products to make the non metal parts for the turbines? You can't have one without the other. The lesser of two evils?
Please feel free to pm me with anything that I said that upsets you. I should have listened to my tuna buddies and kept silent. We should take it to the side bar as we have been beating a dead whale.

[Blind Squirrel]

These scientists are not independent. They are hired by NOAA and universities like Duke and Rutgers and others who have taken lots of money from offshore wind. I was not completely against the windmills until I started looking at how dangerous they are to the enviroment. It is very insulting that from the beginning, NOAA stated that there would be an "Acceptable number of whale mortality" associtated with testing and development for the offshore windmills --but now blaming it all on boat traffic and commercial gear.

I don't need to be a scientist to know that, at the same time testing was happening, more dead whales than we've ever heard of, washed up on the beachs. Doubtful coincidence.

Also, from what I've read, overall windmills are very inefficient. It's pretty bad when the likes of Greta Thunberg is against them:rolleyes:
Greta Thunberg is a well-known proponent of renewable energy, and has only recently joined the opposition to the construction of wind farms on the traditional lands of the Sámi people (https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/europe/greta-thunberg-wind-farm-norway-sami-climate-intl/index.html), indigenous reindeer-herders who've lived in Sweden, Norway, Finland, & NW Russia for >2 millennia.
"...windmills are very inefficient" compared to what, Captain Bob? Wind isn't bought by the gallon, so check the efficiency of your 4 turbocharged diesels and the engine that keeps your car or truck rolling. ;)

[Blind Squirrel]

I was talking of the Green Movement. I was being too general even though they are related.
I have seen a wind turbine kill a Golden Eagle and walked under them by my Fathers home. Lots of bird carcasses around them. The same thing will happen offshore. Saw a Porpoise pod recently running from something as we went offshore. The seismic boat was within a quarter mile of us. I have not seen seismic testing kill but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. BS, you can use the Whitey Bulger defence, If no-one saw it then it didn't happen.
Natural Gas and oil drilling are supplying the fuel for most of the offshore projects. Boats and heavy equipment need diesel to run. Don't they use petroleum products to make the non metal parts for the turbines? You can't have one without the other. The lesser of two evils?
Please feel free to pm me with anything that I said that upsets you. I should have listened to my tuna buddies and kept silent. We should take it to the side bar as we have been beating a dead whale.
Fair enough, Young Pedro. Have you seen what oil spills do to wildlife? Search "climate change effects on wildlife and ecosystems" to see what global climate change is doing to our planet too.

[hammer4reel]

Greta Thunberg is a well-known proponent of renewable energy, and has only recently joined the opposition to the construction of wind farms on the traditional lands of the Sámi people (https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/europe/greta-thunberg-wind-farm-norway-sami-climate-intl/index.html), indigenous reindeer-herders who've lived in Sweden, Norway, Finland, & NW Russia for >2 millennia.
"...windmills are very inefficient" compared to what, Captain Bob? Wind isn't bought by the gallon, so check the efficiency of your 4 turbocharged diesels and the engine that keeps your car or truck rolling. ;)

I have been an electrician for 40 plus years .
Built a lot of power plants. , co gens , solar farms etc .

Wind energy is the MOST expensive to produce , the least reliable .
And when built in the ocean the wind turbines haven’t made it 5 years . Many only making it 2-3 years before failure .
Offshore winds are too strong way too often and add to wear quickly .

.
Really want the most efficient power it’s Nuclear .
But God forbid we talk about that .

.

The artical you posted shows 40% probably vessel hits , yet no real accounting for the other 60%
Ever think the 40 % ran into a vessel because it was disoriented from the soundings .

Too much money is involved in the offshore wind farms to get any real data about how harmful they are .

Takes more petroleum to build and manufacture them than they will admit also .

Kind of like the vegans against eating meat , while wearing a leather jacket and leather shoes .

.

[Ol Pedro]

BS, I'm done.

[captbogan]

Greta Thunberg is a well-known proponent of renewable energy, and has only recently joined the opposition to the construction of wind farms on the traditional lands of the Sámi people (https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/europe/greta-thunberg-wind-farm-norway-sami-climate-intl/index.html), indigenous reindeer-herders who've lived in Sweden, Norway, Finland, & NW Russia for >2 millennia.
"...windmills are very inefficient" compared to what, Captain Bob? Wind isn't bought by the gallon, so check the efficiency of your 4 turbocharged diesels and the engine that keeps your car or truck rolling. ;)

Compared to the fact that it takes a lot of petroleum to make just one of those huge blades, BS. And from what I've read, the longevity of those turbines is relatively short lived. From the docs I've read, they are supposed to last 20 years but are only making it 11 or 10 or barely 8 years.

I am curious, BS. Do you own an electric car and fish on electric boats?

I make no apologies for my tier 4 -four engines. I really like them. They run cleaner and more effeciently than the 2 in my old boat. However, if somone proved to me that I could repower my boat with electric turbines and save money, I would be interested. As I mentioned, in the beginning, I was open-minded about the wind farms but the more I learn, the less I like them.

[NoLimit]

So you've seen seismic testing for wind turbines kill cetaceans, birds, fish, & even jobs with your own eyes, OP? What does offshore gas & oil drilling do? :eek: We know what onshore gas and oil drilling does....nothing. Not a single living thing has been harmed by fracking fluid. Yet that myth was used to shut down a low cost energy source that requires no subsidies

[NoLimit]

So OSW is THE ONLY industry that needs ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA, Gumster?:eek: How do you possibly compare the concept of insurance with the license to kill whales? And then the audacity to blame it on recreational boats

[Blind Squirrel]

How do you possibly compare the concept of insurance with the license to kill whales? And then the audacity to blame it on recreational boats
Q: why do they need a “take” authorization if they aren’t harming cetaceans ?
rpt: Why do you need auto insurance if you're not causing any accidents, Gummy? What other industries need ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA? :eek:

[Blind Squirrel]

I have been an electrician for 40 plus years .
Built a lot of power plants. , co gens , solar farms etc .

Wind energy is the MOST expensive to produce , the least reliable .
And when built in the ocean the wind turbines haven’t made it 5 years . Many only making it 2-3 years before failure .
Offshore winds are too strong way too often and add to wear quickly .

.
Really want the most efficient power it’s Nuclear .
But God forbid we talk about that .

.

The artical you posted shows 40% probably vessel hits , yet no real accounting for the other 60%
Ever think the 40 % ran into a vessel because it was disoriented from the soundings .

Too much money is involved in the offshore wind farms to get any real data about how harmful they are .

Takes more petroleum to build and manufacture them than they will admit also .

Kind of like the vegans against eating meat , while wearing a leather jacket and leather shoes .

.

So you've been an electrician for 40 plus years, worked on various power plant projects, and somehow know that wind energy isn't cost-effective? ~40% of cetacean deaths have been linked to vessel hits, the causes of the other ~60% are undocumented, so they must be the result of OSW, but too much money is involved in offshore wind farms, so we can't find out how harmful they are? I was wondering how any of this argues against investing in offshore wind energy, but "they" won't even tell us how much petroleum it takes to build them...
Get used to clean, renewable energy, Captain.

[Blind Squirrel]

Compared to the fact that it takes a lot of petroleum to make just one of those huge blades, BS. And from what I've read, the longevity of those turbines is relatively short lived. From the docs I've read, they are supposed to last 20 years but are only making it 11 or 10 or barely 8 years.

I am curious, BS. Do you own an electric car and fish on electric boats?

I make no apologies for my tier 4 -four engines. I really like them. They run cleaner and more effeciently than the 2 in my old boat. However, if somone proved to me that I could repower my boat with electric turbines and save money, I would be interested. As I mentioned, in the beginning, I was open-minded about the wind farms but the more I learn, the less I like them.
No one asked you to apologize for your engines, Captain Bob, just to apply the same efficiency standards to them that you do to wind turbines. Clean renewable energy isn't going to replace fossil fuels entirely, but it's reducing our dependence on petroleum and the resultant climate effects we're now experiencing.
Most of us are consumers of energy, not producers, so let the wind power industry and the marketplace worry about the longevity of turbines.

[Blind Squirrel]

We know what onshore gas and oil drilling does....nothing. Not a single living thing has been harmed by fracking fluid. Yet that myth was used to shut down a low cost energy source that requires no subsidies

Fracking Fluid Provides Many Benefits, Poses Many Dangers
https://www.hazardouswasteexperts.com/fracking-fluid-provides-many-benefits-poses-many-dangers/

Ten years later, BP oil spill continues to harm wildlife—especially dolphins
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/how-is-wildlife-doing-now--ten-years-after-the-deepwater-horizon

[NoLimit]

So you've been an electrician for 40 plus years, worked on various power plant projects, and somehow know that wind energy isn't cost-effective? ~40% of cetacean deaths have been linked to vessel hits, the causes of the other ~60% are undocumented, so they must be the result of OSW, but too much money is involved in offshore wind farms, so we can't find out how harmful they are? I was wondering how any of this argues against investing in offshore wind energy, but "they" won't even tell us how much petroleum it takes to build them...
Get used to clean, renewable energy, Captain.

Show us one current picture of one whale with prop marks on its back. There are none, only this BS about blunt force wounds to the head.

[bbfisherman]

Simple question blind squirrel. Show us a reputable scientific article that states for a fact that sonar blasting cannot cause harm to marine life.

[NoLimit]

Fracking Fluid Provides Many Benefits, Poses Many Dangers
https://www.hazardouswasteexperts.com/fracking-fluid-provides-many-benefits-poses-many-dangers/

Ten years later, BP oil spill continues to harm wildlife—especially dolphins
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/how-is-wildlife-doing-now--ten-years-after-the-deepwater-horizon

Got biased sources? Fracking fluid is 99.9% water and sand and you can literally drink it with no harm. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/haliburton-fracking-fluid

[NoLimit]

Q: why do they need a “take” authorization if they aren’t harming cetaceans ?
rpt: Why do you need auto insurance if you're not causing any accidents, Gummy? What other industries need ITAs, IHAs, etc. from NOAA? :eek:

We see that you ignored the question. How do you compare a License to Kill rare whales with the concept of insurance? The answer is that you cant.

[NoLimit]

Fracking Fluid Provides Many Benefits, Poses Many Dangers
https://www.hazardouswasteexperts.com/fracking-fluid-provides-many-benefits-poses-many-dangers/

Ten years later, BP oil spill continues to harm wildlife—especially dolphins
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/how-is-wildlife-doing-now--ten-years-after-the-deepwater-horizon

So you have to go back 15 years to find a picture of a pelican from an oil spill? What about the 35 million critters killed every year by windmills including whales. Plus windmills are not efficient. They are taxpayer subsidized because they cant compete with modern cogen power plants that run on clean and green natural gas. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/01/solar-farms-renewable-energy-killing-birds/672877/

[captbogan]

Squirrel, I don't think anyone in our fishing community is an affirmative for an oil rig off of NJ, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

No matter what form of energy we use, there will be a plus and a minus column.

It would be great if those windmill farms didn't harm the eco-system and provided steady, clean, inexpensive energy. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Blind Squirrel]

Show us one current picture of one whale with prop marks on its back. There are none, only this BS about blunt force wounds to the head.
https://abc7ny.com/climate-change-dead-whale-beached-tri-state-area/12901186/

[Blind Squirrel]

Simple question blind squirrel. Show us a reputable scientific article that states for a fact that sonar blasting cannot cause harm to marine life.
Show us where I ever said that sonar blasting cannot cause harm to marine life.

[Blind Squirrel]

Got biased sources? Fracking fluid is 99.9% water and sand and you can literally drink it with no harm. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/haliburton-fracking-fluid
Halliburton isn't a biased source, now is it... :rolleyes:

[bbfisherman]

You're done arguing then blind squirrel. Sonar blasting causes harm to marine animals. Windmills are not cost effective. Foreign companies are the ones profiting from the windmills. Portugal has many land based windmills and the electric costs have not saved them a penny. We are getting these windmills shoved down our throats. Animal harm, no savings, and follow the money corruption

[Blind Squirrel]

We see that you ignored the question. How do you compare a License to Kill rare whales with the concept of insurance? The answer is that you cant.
Calling the issuance of IHAs, ITAs, etc. to lawful industries "a License to Kill" is begging the question.

[Blind Squirrel]

So you have to go back 15 years to find a picture of a pelican from an oil spill? What about the 35 million critters killed every year by windmills including whales. Plus windmills are not efficient. They are taxpayer subsidized because they cant compete with modern cogen power plants that run on clean and green natural gas. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/01/solar-farms-renewable-energy-killing-birds/672877/

Show us one current picture of one whale killed by a wind turbine. :rolleyes:

[Blind Squirrel]

Squirrel, I don't think anyone in our fishing community is an affirmative for an oil rig off of NJ, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

No matter what form of energy we use, there will be a plus and a minus column.

It would be great if those windmill farms didn't harm the eco-system and provided steady, clean, inexpensive energy. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
It would be great if ANY SOURCE didn't harm the eco-system and provided steady, clean, inexpensive energy, Captain Bob, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Wind energy is a new & improving technology that isn't linked to global climate change

[Blind Squirrel]

You're done arguing then blind squirrel. Sonar blasting causes harm to marine animals. Windmills are not cost effective. Foreign companies are the ones profiting from the windmills. Portugal has many land based windmills and the electric costs have not saved them a penny. We are getting these windmills shoved down our throats. Animal harm, no savings, and follow the money corruption
The consequences of global climate change are far less cost-effective, BB...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/23/why-are-fossil-fuels-bad-environment-impact/10454327002/

[Ry609]

The responses from this guy sound like some of those AI Chat GPT conversations I've seen videos of :D You're all on an FBI watch list now for arguing with it lol

[Blind Squirrel]

The responses from this guy sound like some of those AI Chat GPT conversations I've seen videos of :D You're all on an FBI watch list now for arguing with it lol

These are adjustable, comfortable, and effective, Ry... :rolleyes:
https://zapatopi.net/afdb/

[captbogan]

No one asked you to apologize for your engines, Captain Bob, just to apply the same efficiency standards to them that you do to wind turbines. Clean renewable energy isn't going to replace fossil fuels entirely, but it's reducing our dependence on petroleum and the resultant climate effects we're now experiencing.
Most of us are consumers of energy, not producers, so let the wind power industry and the marketplace worry about the longevity of turbines.

I dunno. I think what I was trying to convey is that it takes a lot of petroleum to build and maintain offshore bird choppers, I mean, windmills ----and if they have a short life-span, that means building more, which means more boats and trucks and manufacturing --so that is the standard that I am going by, when it comes to windmill efficiency.

I've heard (but I do not have a resource for this) that only 1/10th of the seismic and sonar testing has been completed. If that is true, I believe that would be bad news for marine life.

[captbogan]

And I'm out because I gotta get back to work. I know no one is going to change your mind, squirrel

[Ry609]

These are adjustable, comfortable, and effective, Ry... :rolleyes:
https://zapatopi.net/afdb/

I'm always fully stocked with Reynolds. Used it during the mask mandates too, fully breathable and never a droplet of COVID on me. Helps with the BBQ too, can't recommend it enough. You should try it sometime yourself!

[Blind Squirrel]

I'm always fully stocked with Reynolds. Used it during the mask mandates too, fully breathable and never a droplet of COVID on me. Helps with the BBQ too, can't recommend it enough. You should try it sometime yourself!
You're wearing it wrong... ;)

"An Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB) is a type of headwear that can shield your brain from most electromagnetic psychotronic mind control carriers. AFDBs are inexpensive (even free if you don't mind scrounging for thrown-out aluminium foil) and can be constructed by anyone with at least the dexterity of a chimp (maybe bonobo). This cheap and unobtrusive form of mind control protection offers real security to the masses. Not only do they protect against incoming signals, but they also block most forms of brain scanning and mind reading, keeping the secrets in your head truly secret. AFDBs are safe and operate automatically. All you do is make it and wear it and you're good to go! Plus, AFDBs are stylish and comfortable."
https://zapatopi.net/afdb/

[Broad Bill]

Last I knew, CNN and Fox News weren't covering fisheries management and fishing reports, so why politicize a fishing site. What's going to happen with OSWF development and our thoughts matter not as the current administration, NOAA, SOC, and the DOE don't give a rat's ass about what the public's concerns or environmental impacts are.

So how about we give it a break, lock the thread and get back to fishing reports.

[Blind Squirrel]

And I'm out because I gotta get back to work. I know no one is going to change your mind, squirrel
New facts & evidence might change my mind, Captain, but not baseless supposition, sophistry, contrived & misleading anecdotes, and fear-mongering propaganda from Big Oil & Fox "News."

[Blind Squirrel]

Last I knew, CNN and Fox News weren't covering fisheries management and fishing reports, so why politicize a fishing site. What's going to happen with OSWF development and our thoughts matter not as the current administration, NOAA, SOC, and the DOE don't give a rat's ass about what the public's concerns or environmental impacts are.

So how about we give it a break, lock the thread and get back to fishing reports.
Good point; offshore wind turbines have nothing to do with offshore fishing, and the less we know about them, the better. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Blind Squirrel]

I dunno. I think what I was trying to convey is that it takes a lot of petroleum to build and maintain offshore bird choppers, I mean, windmills ----and if they have a short life-span, that means building more, which means more boats and trucks and manufacturing --so that is the standard that I am going by, when it comes to windmill efficiency.

I've heard (but I do not have a resource for this) that only 1/10th of the seismic and sonar testing has been completed. If that is true, I believe that would be bad news for marine life.
The worsening effects of climate change are in the news every day, but seismic testing is apparently only a problem in one industry where it's used peripherally. Go figure...:confused:
Seismic & Sonar Testing
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/oceans/save-the-whales/seismic-sonar-testing/

[Ry609]

Last I knew, CNN and Fox News weren't covering fisheries management and fishing reports, so why politicize a fishing site. What's going to happen with OSWF development and our thoughts matter not as the current administration, NOAA, SOC, and the DOE don't give a rat's ass about what the public's concerns or environmental impacts are.

So how about we give it a break, lock the thread and get back to fishing reports.

100% right, the title of the thread is not fishing related, lock it up! I just couldn't resist jumping in. Back to fishing!

[Ol Pedro]

The worsening effects of climate change are in the news every day, but seismic testing is apparently only a problem in one industry where it's used peripherally. Go figure...:confused:
Seismic & Sonar Testing
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/oceans/save-the-whales/seismic-sonar-testing/
I'm back! I looked at the Greenpeace article and it goes against your stance. They say it's hurting animals and displacing them. This thread should be locked. You just try and deflect/misdirected rather than answer questions.

[Blind Squirrel]

I'm back! I looked at the Greenpeace article and it goes against your stance. They say it's hurting animals and displacing them. This thread should be locked. You just try and deflect/misdirected rather than answer questions.
Welcome back, Young Pedro. Thx for making my point. :p

[Broad Bill]

Good point; offshore wind turbines have nothing to do with offshore fishing, and the less we know about them, the better. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Point was politics has nothing to do with fishing reports and maybe the sooner you stop being a wise ass d-bag the sooner the site can get back to posting useful fishing reports.

[Blind Squirrel]

Point was politics has nothing to do with fishing reports and maybe the sooner you stop being a wise ass d-bag the sooner the site can get back to posting useful fishing reports.
No one's stopping you or anyone else from posting & reading fishing reports, BB. Point is people who can't or won't discuss this on its merits try to politicize it.

[Ol Pedro]

Welcome back, Young Pedro. Thx for making my point. :p
And your point is that Greenpeace states that seismic/sonar does hurt/displace animals?

[pectoralfin]

After reading all of the above, I have decided to post my own scientific findings.

SONAR BLASTING WHALES DIE. NO SONAR BLASTING NO REPORTED WHALE DEATHS.

The end

[Blind Squirrel]

And your point is that Greenpeace states that seismic/sonar does hurt/displace animals?
Take another(?) look at the article that has you so confused, Young Pedro...

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/oceans/save-the-whales/seismic-sonar-testing/

Seismic & Sonar Testing


While whales and other marine life are threatened by international whaling and habitat loss, they also face a domestic threat. Navy sonar testing and seismic testing from the oil and gas industry regularly take place in areas where marine species thrive. Find out more about the impacts and what you can do to help.


Seismic Testing


According to government estimates, 138,500 whales and dolphins will soon be injured and possibly killed along the east coast of the U.S. if exploration companies are allowed to use dangerous blasts of noise to search for offshore oil and gas.

And geophysical companies — working on behalf of oil and gas corporations — are seeking permission from the government to use seismic airguns to search for offshore oil and gas in the Atlantic Ocean.

These airguns use loud blasts on a recurring basis, going off every ten seconds, for 24 hours a day, often for weeks on end. They are so loud that they penetrate through the ocean and miles into the seafloor, then bounce back, bringing information to the surface about the location of buried oil and gas deposits.

Airgun blasts harm whales, dolphins, sea turtles, and fish. The types of impacts marine mammals may endure include temporary and permanent hearing loss, abandonment of habitat, disruption of mating and feeding, beach strandings, and even death. Seismic airguns could devastate marine life, harming fisheries and coastal economies along the Atlantic coast.


Sonar Testing


Along the entire east coast as well as in Hawaii, Southern California, and the Gulf of Mexico, the Navy plans to test sonar and explosive devices so deafening they cause whales to abandon their normal feeding grounds and migration patterns. The Navy’s own report states that more than 40 marine mammal species will be impacted, including the endangered humpback whale and the blue whale.

For marine mammals caught closer to the training exercises, the pain they would suffer would be immense. The powerful sonar blasts will destroy their hearing and even cause their brains to hemorrhage. Naval sonar has already led to mass whale strandings, as disoriented whales attempt to escape the noise.

The National Marine Fisheries Service is responsible for the protection of these marine mammals, but instead of tossing out the Navy’s training plan, it gave the Navy the green light.

We’re continuing to document and bear witness to these issues. Join the movement to protect ocean life if you want to get involved!

[Ol Pedro]

BS, I 'm not confused. You still didn't answer. When was the last time that you went fishing? You need to get out more.

[Blind Squirrel]

After reading all of the above, I have decided to post my own scientific findings.
SONAR BLASTING WHALES DIE. NO SONAR BLASTING NO REPORTED WHALE DEATHS.
The end
Your scientific findings only tell part of the story, pf...

Whale deaths exploited in 'cynical disinformation' campaign against offshore wind power, advocates say

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/02/11/whale-deaths-and-windmills/11178432002/

Efforts to stop wind turbines off the Atlantic coast have a new mascot: the whale.

A dozen New Jersey beach town mayors and several other groups now argue offshore wind power activity could be the cause of recent whale deaths and wind projects must be stopped while scientists investigate.

But those most vocal about their concern have been silent in recent years as whale strandings surged along the East Coast. Wind energy supporters and whale advocates say these groups and politicians appear to be using whales as pawns.

A Jan. 30 letter signed by 12 New Jersey mayors and a congressman, Chris Smith, R-N.J., called for a moratorium on all offshore wind activity. Conservation advocates say the letter spreads speculation when scientists aren't convinced whale deaths and offshore wind development are connected – and there's good reason to believe they are not.Whales and wind emerged in the headlines in January after a news conference Jan. 9 by two groups, Clean Ocean Action and Protect Our Coast New Jersey. They blamed the "unprecedented" discovery of six dead whales along New Jersey and New York coasts on early-stage geotechnical surveys mapping the sea floor for wind farms.

They advanced a festering concern that sound beams used in such surveys could harm whales. Conservation groups and the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management generally believe that's nonsense, in part because the type of sound used for wind turbine placement is much weaker than the stronger signals regularly used for other purposes such as oil and gas exploration.
Then the mayors' letter made national news with its call for a moratorium on all offshore wind activity until federal and state agencies determine there's no connection to a series of whale deaths.
The cause has also been taken up by Fox News personality Tucker Carlson, who has aired a series of segments in which he called wind turbines DDT for whales.
Longtime whale advocacy groups aren't buying it.

“It’s just a cynical disinformation campaign,” said Greenpeace oceans director John Hocevar. “It doesn’t seem to worry them that it’s not based in any kind of evidence.”

Scientists who study whale strandings say there’s no known link between wind turbines and whale deaths, although they continue to investigate what role, if any, wind development has in whale deaths.

So far, evidence for a link is little more than speculation. Experts point to the United Kingdom, which has 2,652 offshore wind turbines and where experts say autopsies have not found a connection between dead whales on their shores and the turbines off them.

Gib Brogan, a campaign director with Oceana, an international ocean advocacy group, said those opposed to wind power are using a spate of whale deaths in the area as an opportunity.

"It seems that the connection between the whale strandings and wind activities is a convenient line of opposition to development of offshore wind in the mid-Atlantic," he said.

Some New Jersey politicians opposed offshore wind power before whale death concerns

Of the 12 mayors who signed the letter, nine are Republican and one is a Democrat. In two towns, elections by law are nonpartisan. All represent small Jersey Shore beach towns.

A USA TODAY review of public statements found at least two of the mayors had spoken critically of offshore wind, a key part of the nation's renewable energy plan with a goal of producing enough electricity to power 10 million homes by decade's end.

“We’ve been 100% against this project from Day One,” Joe Mancini, mayor of Long Beach Township, said of the several wind farms in the proposal and research stage off the New Jersey shore.

Mancini's concerns are numerous: He says the proposed wind farms will destroy fishing and hurt tourism. The turbines are unsightly and the energy they produce is too expensive, he claims. "I don’t care how far out they put them," he said.

Instead, he supports nuclear power as the solution to creating carbon-neutral energy.

In the borough of Deal, Mayor Sam Cohen signed the letter, but when contacted by USA TODAY, he expressed concern over possible dangers to birds. "I have no idea how these wind turbines affect whales, but I would be interested to see a study on how these turbines affect fish and wildlife," he told USA TODAY.

Don Cabrera, a signer and mayor of the borough of Wildwood Crest, said he’s opposed to “tampering with our ecosystem and ocean floor and possibly harming marine and other life.” He believes sustainable energy should come from land-based wind turbines and solar farms.

He’s also not convinced the turbines, which he says would harm his town, won’t be visible from land.

New Jersey mayors have history of silence on whale deaths

Rep. Smith, who has supported wind power, introduced a bill in 2019 to ban the use of seismic air guns, primarily by oil and gas companies. The measure aims to protect the endangered North Atlantic right whale and other marine life. He has also supported a ban on offshore oil drilling.

But a USA TODAY review of news coverage of the mayors found no history of public concern for whale deaths, despite high rates of strandings dating back to 2017.

That year, 78 whales died along the Atlantic coast of the U.S. and Canada and 59 in 2018, 2019 and 2020, NOAA data shows.

“I don’t know what to make of it that these people and these organizations that have not had a long-standing interest in whale conservation are becoming vocal opponents of offshore wind using whales as their vehicle,” Brogan said.

"Groups opposed to clean energy projects spread baseless misinformation that has been debunked by scientists and experts," said JC Sandberg, chief advocacy officer with the American Clean Power Association, a renewable energy trade group.

“We have always worked alongside the environmental community to protect marine life and follow rigorous standards when developing projects. The recent whale strandings are tragic, but there is no evidence that these incidents have anything to do with offshore wind activity."
The dispute has made for strange bedfellows.

The Jan. 9 news conference featured Clean Action Ocean, a 39-year-old group founded to fight beach dumping, as well as Protect Our Coast New Jersey. Founded in 2021, that group’s money is managed by the Caesar Rodney Institute, which has received funding from the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers.

Conservative organizations or oil and gas interests appear to be using whales as pawns in efforts to undermine offshore wind projects, said Leah Stokes, a professor of political science at the University of Santa Barbara.

The tactic has been used to fight the land-based wind installations, the Inflation Reduction Act and now offshore wind power, said Stokes, whose book “Short Circuiting Policy: Interest Groups and the Battle Over Clean Energy and Climate Policy in the American States” researched anti-wind-power networks.

“They’re taking those legitimate environmental concerns and trying to manipulate the conversation by using topics that matter to the environmental movement,” she said.

The same tactic is used when those opposed to wind energy focused on bird deaths, which isn’t their actual concern, she said.

“Folks may have other reasons they don’t like turbines, such as home prices or their own financial interests, but they’ll mask it in arguing it’s about protecting bird species,” she said.

Whale deaths a problem, but no evidence connects them to wind, experts say

The East Coast is in the midst of a seven-year whale die-off that caused the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to declare an Unusual Mortality Event – an in-depth scientific investigation – for humpbacks in 2016. Two other unusual mortality investigations for whales began in 2017, one for minke whales and one for North Atlantic right whales.

Since Dec. 1, seven dead humpback whales and one sperm whale have been seen along the New Jersey shore, and eight other humpbacks and two North Atlantic right whales washed up along the coast between New York and North Carolina.

Both a humpback that washed ashore in Manasquan, New Jersey on Monday and a right whale found dead on Virginia Beach on Sunday showed internal evidence of vessel strikes, NOAA said. At least three of the January whale deaths have been attributed to vessel strikes.

It's not clear this is an outsized number compared with past years.

“It is too soon to speculate about this year being higher than any others,” said NOAA spokeswoman Allison Ferreira.

Greenpeace's Hocevar isn't concerned.

“There’s no evidence that we’ve seen implicating wind turbines and the deaths of whales on the East Coast," he said.

So far, the United States has only two in operation, with a total of just seven turbines. Another two are in the construction stage, one off New York and one off Massachusetts.

Longer-term, 10 projects are in the environmental review process, meaning it will be years before construction can begin.

“While the climate deniers and the right-wing pundits are tilting at windmills," Hocevar said, "most of us are focused on the real threats to whales *– climate change, entanglement with fishing gear, ship strikes and plastic pollution.”

[Blind Squirrel]

BS, I 'm not confused. You still didn't answer. When was the last time that you went fishing? You need to get out more.
You're only seeing what you want to see, young fella :p

[rumster]

Keep drinking the koolaid .
Not 1 single whale death since they forced them to stop doing the soundings .
No more distressed dolphins etc .

All just coincidence the highest mortality (30 times ) happened while soundings were going on .

The offshore wind farms will cost us dearly for the rest of our lifetimes .
Great dumb ass’s don’t even realize they are just polluting another food source .

.Exactly. Well said.

[june181901]

Today's Asbury Park Press (22 JUN)has a very interesting article on this subject. Well worth reading!

[Blind Squirrel]

Today's Asbury Park Press (22 JUN)has a very interesting article on this subject. Well worth reading!

Not recommended reading for those who reject facts & evidence...

How dead whales became the symbol of a political battle in NJ and elsewhere

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/land-environment/2023/06/22/whales-dying-along-new-jersey-coast-now-a-political-battle/69933836007/

[AndrewT]

Not recommended reading for those who ignore facts & evidence...

How dead whales became the symbol of a political battle in NJ and elsewhere

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/land-environment/2023/06/22/whales-dying-along-new-jersey-coast-now-a-political-battle/69933836007/

My mind has been changed! Thank you for this article. It’s been ships and climate change all along! The ocean was so warm this winter it must have caused the whales to forget how to avoid ships. Thank you for sharing. Blind squirrel has been right all along!

[NoLimit]

You're only seeing what you want to see, young fella :p And youre only seeing what your paid to do. Seriously, do you work for a living or is this propagandizing your way of making a living. Everytime I visit the site, you are flaming the pages with the same leftist talking point, ad nauseam. But this issue really takes the cake. Its amazing how all the lefties that stopped drilling and pipelines because some minnow might die is giving a pass to windmills that are killing 35 million birds, bats and now whales. https://stopthesethings.com/2022/03/24/endangered-atlantic-right-whales-next-victims-of-offshore-wind-power-push/

[Capt Sal]

So what have we learned? Nothing just the opinion of one that has all the answers. One thing is for sure I am glad to be out of it and retired. I will still take my grandchildren out striper fishing and they could care less if they release all the 28-31 Stripers. I feel bad for the REAL FOR HIRE CAPTS THAT DO THIS FULL TIME!!!

[Blind Squirrel]

And youre only seeing what your paid to do. Seriously, do you work for a living or is this propagandizing your way of making a living. Everytime I visit the site, you are flaming the pages with the same leftist talking point, ad nauseam. But this issue really takes the cake. Its amazing how all the lefties that stopped drilling and pipelines because some minnow might die is giving a pass to windmills that are killing 35 million birds, bats and now whales. https://stopthesethings.com/2022/03/24/endangered-atlantic-right-whales-next-victims-of-offshore-wind-power-push/
Seriously, I'm not the topic here, but have been retired for ~15 years and express my facts & opinions free of charge.
The author of the hit piece you posted has an undergraduate degree in fine arts from UT Austin, and is apparently a paid shill for the fossil fuel industry. Great credentials... :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bryce_(writer)

[Blind Squirrel]

And youre only seeing what your paid to do. Seriously, do you work for a living or is this propagandizing your way of making a living. Everytime I visit the site, you are flaming the pages with the same leftist talking point, ad nauseam. But this issue really takes the cake. Its amazing how all the lefties that stopped drilling and pipelines because some minnow might die is giving a pass to windmills that are killing 35 million birds, bats and now whales. https://stopthesethings.com/2022/03/24/endangered-atlantic-right-whales-next-victims-of-offshore-wind-power-push/
Here's some more background information on Robert Bryce... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Robert Bryce – The Media’s Industry-Funded Go-To Guy
www.desmog.com/2011/10/12/robert-bryce-media-s-industry-funded-go-guy/
Who Is Robert Bryce?
https://www.mediamatters.org/legacy/who-robert-bryce

[tautog]

Seriously, I'm not the topic here, but have been retired for ~15 years and express my facts & opinions free of charge.
The author of the hit piece you posted has an undergraduate degree in fine arts from UT Austin, and is apparently a paid shill for the fossil fuel industry. Great credentials... :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bryce_(writer)

Wait isn't this ad hominem....or does that only apply to me.

[Togfather2530]

I can’t believe this stupid political left right nonsense post is still up. Proves how dead this site has become. I see both sides of the picture and both the left wing and right wing so called diehards are nuts. The so-called conservative rights take handouts whenever they can for the most part (example, Covid relief money) and the Democrats on the left side are just totally nuts with their views. The other thing that makes me laugh is how the captains and people on this site bitch about the restrictions on the regulations. If these charter captains and half the people on the site had their way they would strip the ocean of all the fish they can like they did with the blues and weak fish back in the day. Please for God sakes remove this stupid thread.

[Broad Bill]

[QUOTE=Togfather2530;576876]I can’t believe this stupid political left right nonsense post is still up. Proves how dead this site has become. I see both sides of the picture and both the left wing and right wing so called diehards are nuts. The so-called conservative rights take handouts whenever they can for the most part (example, Covid relief money) and the Democrats on the left side are just totally nuts with their views. The other thing that makes me laugh is how the captains and people on this site bitch about the restrictions on the regulations. If these charter captains and half the people on the site had their way they would strip the ocean of all the fish they can like they did with the blues and weak fish back in the day. Please for God sakes remove this stupid thread.[/QUOTE

Pop up adds and views equal $ so topics that weren't tolerated for years in a fishing reports only forum appear to be welcome now. Site is turning into the "View" with Blind Squirrel playing Joy Behar.

[Duffman]

Post has been up 16 days.

111 replies.


4,260 views.

And you want it shut down? LMAO. C’mon man. This is revenue gold!!!

[Blind Squirrel]

Wait isn't this ad hominem....or does that only apply to me.
tautog: "Everyone quote[d] in your article [https://www.sierraclub.org/new-jersey/blog/2023/06/what-scientific-authorities-have-say-about-whale-mortalities] is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms."

Me: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Quoted in my article:
—The Sierra Club NJ Chapter
—NOAA
—The Marine Mammal Commission (https://www.mmc.gov/about-the-commission/meet-the-commission/)
—The Rutgers University Offshore Wind Energy Collaborative
—The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
—The New York Times
—The Intercept

In my reply that you claim is or may be ad hominem, along with another one immediately following it, I provided 3 links to show the close connections between the author of an article and the fossil fuel industry.

[togzilla]

"Pop up adds and views equal $ so topics that weren't tolerated for years in a fishing reports only forum appear to be welcome now. Site is turning into the "View" with Blind Squirrel playing Joy Behar."

Now that is hysterical. I'm starting to believe "Blind Idiot" is bot.

[Blind Squirrel]

"Pop up adds and views equal $ so topics that weren't tolerated for years in a fishing reports only forum appear to be welcome now. Site is turning into the "View" with Blind Squirrel playing Joy Behar."

Now that is hysterical. I'm starting to believe "Blind Idiot" is bot.
There seem to be a lot of blind idiots on this thread. :(

[AndyS]

There seem to be a lot of blind idiots on this thread. :(

If I type in bold, does that mean I am correct ?

[hammer4reel]

There seem to be a lot of blind idiots on this thread. :(

Maybe just one that already knew it when he picked his user name here .

Betting your one of those guys that goes to sleep at night , wakes up to 6 “ of snow , and claims it didn’t happen that night because he didn’t see it .

It’s ALMOST funny you think the speed limit for boats over 35 ‘ is ok and that it will actually save whales .

Yet when the ABSOLUTE worst way to generate electricity is killing them you show a blind eye .

.

[Blind Squirrel]

Maybe just one that already knew it when he picked his user name here .
Betting your one of those guys that goes to sleep at night , wakes up to 6 “ of snow , and claims it didn’t happen that night because he didn’t see it .
It’s ALMOST funny you think the speed limit for boats over 35 ‘ is ok and that it will actually save whales .
Yet when the ABSOLUTE worst way to generate electricity is killing them you show a blind eye .
.
NOAA scientists think "the speed limit for boats over 35‘ is ok and that it will actually save whales." You think wind energy is "the ABSOLUTE worst way to generate electricity" and is killing whales. I believe the science & evidence.

[Blind Squirrel]

If I type in bold, does that mean I am correct ?
...correct about what? :confused:

[tautog]

tautog: "Everyone quote[d] in your article [https://www.sierraclub.org/new-jersey/blog/2023/06/what-scientific-authorities-have-say-about-whale-mortalities] is involved in the offshore wind industry. Hardly an unbiased source given their salary is dependent on the success of these wind farms."

Me: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Quoted in my article:
—The Sierra Club NJ Chapter
—NOAA
—The Marine Mammal Commission (https://www.mmc.gov/about-the-commission/meet-the-commission/)
—The Rutgers University Offshore Wind Energy Collaborative
—The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
—The New York Times
—The Intercept

In my reply that you claim is or may be ad hominem, along with another one immediately following it, I provided 3 links to show the close connections between the author of an article and the fossil fuel industry.

Those are all organizations with close ties to the wind industry. So your point is moot. Which of those groups or news organizations is anti offshore wind or neutral on offshore wind?