Should NJ Go Out of Compliance on Stripers?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Feel free to comment below as well..

Some background for those who are new to this issue. Current regulations in NJ are 1 Striper between 28 and 38 inches.

A month ago the ASMFC decided to put emergency measures in place which would force all Atlantic States to change their regulations to 1 Striper @ 28 to 31 inches by July 2nd. This is an attempt to rebuild the Striper stocks. The Emergency measure passed by 15 states for and only NJ against.

[FISHGERE]

Absoulity that 28-to 31 is insane they’re gonna kill the head and charter boat businesses. Those odds are worse than blackjack. Between that and fluke regs gas prices I might be selling a nice fishing boat. Having 3 inches to keep a fish

[reason162]

Just a reminder that every single state - including Maryland ffs - voted FOR the emergency conservation measures. Every single state but NJ. All the reps looked at the same data and were horrified by its implications - all except NJ.

Rec anglers who care about the future of this fishery should feel alarmed to be represented by the same people who brought us the 2017 fluke fiasco - the sheer willingness to play politics to circumvent conservation, and to entertain lawlessness in a country governed by rule of law.

If NJ goes out of compliance I hope the legal consequences will be swift and severe.

[hammer4reel]

Nj Should not go out of compliance .
There is a huge possibility IF we do they have a season closure during the spawning period starting next year .

Meaning we possibly lose fishing for them until June .
Losing our late march , April , may fishery .


Nj and Ny will not allow CR if there is a closed season .


.


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[hartattack]

In the ASMFC interview I posted previously, the question is asked - what are the penalties for out of compliance. ASMFC will gladly pass the buck to US Director of Commerce (threat of statewide recreational ban). Here's the podcast:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/252409/12880718-striped-bass-slot-to-be-slashed-as-emergency-regulations-on-july-2-2023.mp3

[Duffman]

I’ve posted this multiple times……..

If you don’t have the means of enforcing the law, what’s the point of changing anything at all?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Looks like we have a lot of people on the no side...

As for me, I voted yes... Not because I think we have a chance of a favorable outcome, I think we challenge the system, see what happens maybe and we fall back in line by not going out of compliance afterward.

At the same time we make a point on how others got their Trophy set aside and these are the very states in the Chesapeake Region who caused the issue to begin with...

In the end I still think our state goes into compliance from the get go because of the current state and national political climate we face if we decide to try and resist.

[Broad Bill]

There's a time to bluff and a time to fold your cards. If there was a strong chance going out of compliance would lead to some form of positive changes, I'd consider it. Not sure this is one of those times. At best, we bluff, blink first and agree to comply with the new regulations which leaves the recreational fisherman in the exact same position they're in now but worse displays the sectors weakness and lack of negotiating strength. Worst case we go out of compliance, the entire NJ recreational fishery is shut down possibly for all species, every sponsor on this site and many more are out of business and the fishery still maintains the status quo of one slot between "28 and "31 for all other states. Both options lead us to status quo, going out of compliance leads us to status quo with severe consequences. The only way you can effectively bluff is if you might have some form of possible leverage which I think its safe to say the recreational sector and New Jersey don't.

FYI, the fluke fiasco was caused many years before 2017 and is 100% due to NMFS's mismanagement and nothing else. As many have eluded to over the years, the powers to be adopted regulations to maximize catch values for the commercial sector, increase fishing effort or spending by the recreational sector while completely ignoring regulations necessary to properly manage the stock. NJ had nothing to do with the pitiful decline in the fluke stock and the ridiculous regulations we're forced to live with today.

[hammer4reel]

There's a time to bluff and a time to fold your cards. If there was a strong chance going out of compliance would lead to some form of positive changes, I'd consider it. Not sure this is one of those times. At best, we bluff, blink first and agree to comply with the new regulations which leaves the recreational fisherman in the exact same position they're in now but worse displays the sectors weakness and lack of negotiating strength. Worst case we go out of compliance, the entire NJ recreational fishery is shut down possibly for all species, every sponsor on this site and many more are out of business and the fishery still maintains the status quo of one slot between "28 and "31 for all other states. Both options lead us to status quo, going out of compliance leads us to status quo with severe consequences. The only way you can effectively bluff is if you might have some form of possible leverage which I think its safe to say the recreational sector and New Jersey don't.

FYI, the fluke fiasco was caused many years before 2017 and is 100% due to NMFS's mismanagement and nothing else. As many have eluded to over the years, the powers to be adopted regulations to maximize catch values for the commercial sector, increase fishing effort or spending by the recreational sector while completely ignoring regulations necessary to properly manage the stock. NJ had nothing to do with the pitiful decline in the fluke stock and the ridiculous regulations we're forced to live with today.

Was a big push here last year how to vote for fisheries reform .
Only half the options were available at that time .

That is why we got the same fluke regs as last year .
Old management plan showed us to get an increase .
The new version said we needed more cut backs , so they split it down the middle .

Bad choices , bad info aren’t good for our fisheries .
EVERY other state except NC got better regs than NJ .

Allowing NC commercial fisherman to have insane landing poundage’s to keep their cutting houses open is bull shit also .
They ruined the fishery there , and what should be moving north to us doesn’t exist .
Fisheries north of us are more stabile , but they won’t be as those same NC boats now having been crushing fish there .

IMO
Coastal states shouldn’t have to give up all their treasures to the rest of the states ,
We don’t see western states shipping us their elk etc

.

[Broad Bill]

Hammer we're in agreement on this one. North Carolina and Virginia destroyed the Chesapeake stock and combined will destroy the Mid Atlantic stock. I still blame the regulators as they allowed the Chesapeake stock to be exploited and are allowing the same to happen with our local Mid-Atlantic stock. Won't be long before the only stock remaining is the Southern New England stock. When the MA stock is gone and the remaining commercial boats focus on the SNE stock primarily during the winter months, it's game over for this fishery. Fisheries management has been politicized with data being manipulated to support regulatory changes they want to support the economics of the fishery as opposed to using scientific data properly to manage the stock for long term sustainability. You don't need initials behind your name to see what's happening here. The monetization of another public resource at the public's expense by our esteemed elected officials.

[pddmd]

If I may share what happens if the Marine Fisheries Council votes to maintain our current regulations.
1) The ASMFC board would have to meet, and take a vote to find NJ out of compliance. Normally this would not happen until the August meeting, but we have been told there will be a virtual meeting if necessary. As the Board voted 15-1 that vote is certain.
2) If found out of compliance, NJ would have 30 days to put forward a defense of its action. Said defense could be based on procedural, biological, or economical issues for example.
3) ASMFC would then send the case to the Secretary of Commerce, who would be in a position to arbitrate. If he rules against NJ, then the ASMFC would move forward with a moratorium.
4) The moratorium would effect only striped bass. But it would be an effort moratorium, meaning no harvest or catch and release. It would also stop the Striped Bass Bonus Program, as it is based on NJ prior commercial landings.
5) To end the moratorium, the NJMFC would have to meet and vote to come in to compliance. Then, the Commisioner would have to sign off on the document for the ASMFC to rescind the moratorium.

[Broad Bill]

If I may share what happens if the Marine Fisheries Council votes to maintain our current regulations.
1) The ASMFC board would have to meet, and take a vote to find NJ out of compliance. Normally this would not happen until the August meeting, but we have been told there will be a virtual meeting if necessary. As the Board voted 15-1 that vote is certain.
2) If found out of compliance, NJ would have 30 days to put forward a defense of its action. Said defense could be based on procedural, biological, or economical issues for example.
3) ASMFC would then send the case to the Secretary of Commerce, who would be in a position to arbitrate. If he rules against NJ, then the ASMFC would move forward with a moratorium.
4) The moratorium would effect only striped bass. But it would be an effort moratorium, meaning no harvest or catch and release. It would also stop the Striped Bass Bonus Program, as it is based on NJ prior commercial landings.
5) To end the moratorium, the NJMFC would have to meet and vote to come in to compliance. Then, the Commisioner would have to sign off on the document for the ASMFC to rescind the moratorium.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the moratorium when New Jersey was considering going out of compliance during the "Enough is Enough" 2017 fluke debacle involved a potential moratorium of all recreational and commercial fishing for said species. Link to article attached, if "pddmd" is John DePersenaire, you're quoted in the article.

The reality is saltwater management decisions driven by the Department of Commerce, NMFS, ASMFC and MAMFC are and have been for some time based on the economics of fisheries and not about the management of stocks themselves. Until these regulatory bodies stop playing trading for dollars and start actually managing resources, nothing will change.

https://www.nj.com/entertainment/2017/06/new_jersey_flounder_fluke_regulation.html

Either way for a vote that was 15 - 1 in favor of the new regulations, New Jersey or any state stands zero chance of a different outcome if they opted to go out of compliance. A choice with severe downside risks and no upside benefit. The Feds would never allow NJ or any state to dictate policy decisions and set a precedent.

Choosing to go out of compliance would in my opinion not soon be forgotten by the Secretary of Commerce and NMFS. It wouldn't surprise me if New Jersey opted to fight this, next years fluke regulations would be 2 fish at 21" with a shortened season and it wouldn't end there.

[baseballman]

This is a no-win situation, but I can't imagine anyone benefits from a potential fishery shutdown.

[NoLimit]

What is the data? There seems to be more stripers these past few years so what’s the problem? Why shut it down? And don’t believe the experts or the other states without an explanation

[Capt Sal]

What is the data? There seems to be more stripers these past few years so what’s the problem? Why shut it down? And don’t believe the experts or the other states without an explanation

The Hudson stock is fine as you can see with the great striper fishing in the Raritan Bay Sandy Hook area. It is better now than 20 years ago! The Chesapeak stock is in decline and commercial and recreation both crushed the stock. Now they want a coast wide ridiculous limit at 28-31''? They are making the Northern states pay for the over fishing to the South! We are a PRODUCER STATE and should not be lumped in to one big category. If they do this it will bankrupt for hire vessels and stop recreational interest in this great fishery. It is a lose lose situation. We are screwed by our government in every way possible!!!