Another dead whale

[hammer4reel]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/13/dead-whale-washes-onto-jersey-shore-9th-one-in-area-in-2-months/

[Duffman]

Something I find odd or maybe just reading too much into it……..

The whale ended up in Manasquan but the Post article quotes the Point Pleasant mayor who is FOR stopping the wind farm survey.

The Manasquan mayor who refuses to stop the project, is not interviewed or quoted? Why?

[AndrewT]

And another dead one in Virginia. https://www.wtkr.com/news/another-endangered-whale-washes-up-along-virginia-beach-noaa-investigating?_amp=true

[Bluefish]

obviously some careless boaters speeding and not holding to the 10 kt limit

[AndyS]

.

[Tuna Tales]

So that's 9 or 10 NJ dead whales since early Dec 2022 - the SAME time the Wind Farm Surveys started. That we know of - could be more. Not including RI, NY, DE, MD and VA.

Is NOAA that stupid to think these sonar surveys are not the cause?

Survey says: YES

I am not against wind farms - I am against the senseless killing of whales.

Unreal


Joe T.

[Capt Sal]

So that's 9 or 10 NJ dead whales since early Dec 2022 - the SAME time the Wind Farm Surveys started. That we know of - could be more. Not including RI, NY, DE, MD and VA.

Is NOAA that stupid to think these sonar surveys are not the cause?

Survey says: YES

I am not against wind farms - I am against the senseless killing of whales.

Unreal


Joe T.
I am against both.

[AndrewT]

Is NOAA that stupid to think these sonar surveys are not the cause?

Survey says: YES

They are not stupid. They are complicit.

[Exit135]

TRUE science is empirical. The 7 step scientific method will provide the answer to this terrible event. Conjecture will not solve anything.

[AndrewT]

TRUE science is empirical. The 7 step scientific method will provide the answer to this terrible event. Conjecture will not solve anything.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Although, the research should be done by independent scientists. Unfortunately, "science" is often hijacked and weaponized these days

[CODCHALY]

conjecture :mad: We'd still be in the Vietnam War. At some point, honesty will save the day. I have no Faith, Trust, in NOAA, and now EPA handling of Ohio Train derailment.
I'll be at the Rally. Thanks for notification.

[NoLimit]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Although, the research should be done by independent scientists. Unfortunately, "science" is often hijacked and weaponized these days You dont need to be a meteorologist to know which way the wind blows. The cause and effect is right there. There is a 100% correlation between the incidence of windmill construction and dead whales. If you dont think so, stop the construction for 6 mos and lets see what happens. We have waited 100 years to find an alternative to fuel power plants. We can wait another 6 months to stop this whale slaughter. And yes I am against the windmills. It is heavily subsidized by my hard earned taxpayer dollars and it has been a dismal failure in Germany and Texas where they went whole hog on it. Now Germany is burning more coal than ever! https://news.yahoo.com/village-standing-way-germany-coal-060014328.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[Exit135]

Did you provide your comments and concerns during the NEPA EIS public comment period?

[dales529]

Its obviously concerning the amount of dead whales washing up on our NJ shores. Can not argue that the coincidence of wind farm/ sonar / pre construction doesn't play a role.

NOAA states Atlantic Coast 181 whale stranding's / deaths from 2016 to 2023 = 25 whale deaths per year. Block Island Wind was in 2016.

BUT: Court is still out on cause of each and every stranding's / deaths which are also happening in states without wind farms?

Sad that it ALWAYS has a political twist instead of science and an actual reason.
Most posts here are more politics than facts and I believe the science is not hijacked or weaponized but reduced to report for fear of fake news for either side.

Hate to see these magnificent creatures washing up like this but hope there are real answers not the political BS

[AndrewT]

Most posts here are more politics than facts and I believe the science is not hijacked or weaponized but reduced to report for fear of fake news for either side.

Hate to see these magnificent creatures washing up like this but hope there are real answers not the political BS

You do realize the reason this issue is being politicized is because the head politician in our state has the authority to shut it down to do more studies but is refusing to. This issue is directly tied to politics.

[Blind Squirrel]

And yes I am against the windmills. It is heavily subsidized by my hard earned taxpayer dollars and it has been a dismal failure in Germany and Texas where they went whole hog on it. https://news.yahoo.com/village-standing-way-germany-coal-060014328.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
The extremely lucrative fossil fuel industry is much more heavily subsidized by our hard-earned taxpayer dollars, and its destructive effects on our environment & the creatures living in it have been conclusively established by decades of sound scientific research, little to none of which exists linking recent marine mammal deaths to offshore wind turbine surveying, construction, and operation. If wind energy didn't provide a viable alternative to our reliance on coal, oil, & gas power generation, simple economics would've ended it years ago.
Here's an objective assessment of what we do and don't know about the whale strandings at this point...

Undersea sounds for wind farms killing whales off Jersey Shore? No evidence of that
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/08/faust-checho/undersea-sounds-wind-farms-killing-whales-jersey-s/
IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT
—The leading human causes of large-whale strandings are whales being struck by vessels or becoming entangled in fishing lines, experts have found.
—Experts at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and elsewhere said they see no evidence that undersea sounds emitted during survey work for the construction of wind farms is causing whale deaths off the Jersey Shore.
—Twelve New Jersey Shore mayors called for a moratorium on offshore wind energy activities. They asked for investigations to determine whether the work contributed to seven whales washing ashore in 38 days.
See the sources for this fact-check (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/08/faust-checho/undersea-sounds-wind-farms-killing-whales-jersey-s/#sources)

[Blind Squirrel]

And yes I am against the windmills. It is heavily subsidized by my hard earned taxpayer dollars and it has been a dismal failure in Germany and Texas where they went whole hog on it. Now Germany is burning more coal than ever! https://news.yahoo.com/village-standing-way-germany-coal-060014328.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
Read the Bloomberg-Yahoo! article you cited (https://news.yahoo.com/village-standing-way-germany-coal-060014328.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall). It says pretty much the exact opposite of what you're claiming, e.g. "German officials have said the revival of coal-burning is an emergency measure—needed to prevent electricity shortages and further price increases [resulting from the Russia/Ukraine crisis]—while the government accelerates longer term investments in wind and solar power and secures substitute gas supplies from the Middle East."

[dales529]

You do realize the reason this issue is being politicized is because the head politician in our state has the authority to shut it down to do more studies but is refusing to. This issue is directly tied to politics.

Of course I realize that. What's not OK is the ignorant bashing of opinions on here simply because its one political party theory or another. When science is trashed because of politics its a slippery slope.
I fully agree an independent study should be done and a stoppage of wind farms in NJ until some evidence is provided.

[AndrewT]

Of course I realize that. What's not OK is the ignorant bashing of opinions on here simply because its one political party theory or another. When science is trashed because of politics its a slippery slope.
I fully agree an independent study should be done and a stoppage of wind farms in NJ until some evidence is provided.

People don’t have issues with science itself it’s that they don’t trust the government these days and who can blame them? These past three years have opened a lot of eyes

[togzilla]

There goes Blind Sheep again posting so called facts from bias liberal news sources! So nice to have trolls on this site.

[NoLimit]

Read the Bloomberg-Yahoo! article you cited (https://news.yahoo.com/village-standing-way-germany-coal-060014328.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall). It says pretty much the exact opposite of what you're claiming, e.g. "German officials have said the revival of coal-burning is an emergency measure—needed to prevent electricity shortages and further price increases [resulting from the Russia/Ukraine crisis]—while the government accelerates longer term investments in wind and solar power and secures substitute gas supplies from the Middle East."
Of course they are going to point fingers. But if the crisis was caused by the lack of Russian gas, why didnt Germany ramp up solar and wind? Why did they ramp up coal? The answer is that wind and solar does not pay for itself. It requires too much in subsidies.

[shresearchdude]

Dales....I admire your attempt.
The latest news. Not a complete report yet - some indications of cause of death and more to be analyzed.

"The whale was an approximately 35-foot female. It was identified by Gotham Whale as NYC 0298 and was first seen feeding in the area on January 7, 2023. This was the first and only time this whale was documented.

The animal was in a state of advanced decomposition, which limited the necropsy. However, tissue samples were taken and will be sent out for analysis. The whale was in good body condition and there were no obvious signs of external trauma. However, the internal examination showed evidence of vessel strike. There is not always obvious external evidence of vessel strikes, which is why internal exams are important. The results of the tissue analysis will help us determine if the vessel strike occurred before or after death. "

Source:
https://mmsc.org/blog/f/update-on-manasquan-beach-humpback-whale-stranding

[Blind Squirrel]

There goes Blind Sheep again posting so called facts from bias liberal news sources! So nice to have trolls on this site.
My "so called facts" are from the "bias[ed] liberal news sources" I cited in my post. Instead of making unfounded assumptions, please feel free to click the link I provided...
See the sources for this fact-check (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/08/faust-checho/undersea-sounds-wind-farms-killing-whales-jersey-s/#sources)

[Blind Squirrel]

Of course they are going to point fingers. But if the crisis was caused by the lack of Russian gas, why didnt Germany ramp up solar and wind? Why did they ramp up coal? The answer is that wind and solar does not pay for itself. It requires too much in subsidies.
This isn't about finger-pointing. The Bloomberg-Yahoo! article you cited clearly states that Germany ramped up coal-burning as "an emergency measure" to compensate for the sudden loss of Russian fossil fuels "while the government accelerates longer term investments in wind and solar power and secures substitute gas supplies from the Middle East." Existing coal & natural gas-based infrastructure can quickly adapt to coal & gas from other sources, but wind & solar build-out has a considerably longer timeline.
If you're trying to make the (untenable) case that renewable energy "does not pay for itself [and] requires too much in subsidies," you definitely picked the wrong article.

[Gumada]

Dales....I admire your attempt.
The latest news. Not a complete report yet - some indications of cause of death and more to be analyzed.

"The whale was an approximately 35-foot female. It was identified by Gotham Whale as NYC 0298 and was first seen feeding in the area on January 7, 2023. This was the first and only time this whale was documented.

The animal was in a state of advanced decomposition, which limited the necropsy. However, tissue samples were taken and will be sent out for analysis. The whale was in good body condition and there were no obvious signs of external trauma. However, the internal examination showed evidence of vessel strike. There is not always obvious external evidence of vessel strikes, which is why internal exams are important. The results of the tissue analysis will help us determine if the vessel strike occurred before or after death. "

Source:
https://mmsc.org/blog/f/update-on-manasquan-beach-humpback-whale-stranding

Appreciate the quote, however finding whether the whale was struck before or after death based on the condition of the carcass is next to impossible. Additionally the inner ears of the whale are NOT being examined at all ! Even temporary loss of hearing increases the chance of a whale not being able to avoid a ship strike...

[dales529]

People don’t have issues with science itself it’s that they don’t trust the government these days and who can blame them? These past three years have opened a lot of eyes

People don't trust the government what a shock. The past 3 years LOL I think you are missing the boat by approx: 240 years. While technology grows in leaps and bounds people remain lazy and uninformed because its easier to believe almost anything immediately than wait for the proper research. Not just talking whales here!

[AndrewT]

People don't trust the government what a shock. The past 3 years LOL I think you are missing the boat by approx: 240 years. While technology grows in leaps and bounds people remain lazy and uninformed because its easier to believe almost anything immediately than wait for the proper research. Not just talking whales here!

You mean like all the "proper research" on the covid vaccine that was done immediately that turned out to be a load of crapola?

[bunker dunker]

so now we can fight amongst ourselves about something we have no control over.we should have some sort of control over what happens but sadly that seems to be a thing of the past.like everything else we will never really know
because now it has become political.instead of letting the public know about the
pro's and cons they simply add up the collateral damages and as long as it fits
then so be it.

[dales529]

You mean like all the "proper research" on the covid vaccine that was done immediately that turned out to be a load of crapola?

Not sure where you are headed there. An unprecedented pandemic across 2 Administrations that tried to adapt on the fly. Science involved as quickly as possible not all right but best information at the time. Then came bleach and UV light in the last admin vs the vaccine LOL. looks to me like the vaccine saved a lot of lives and credit to the last admin for pushing manufacture regardless of saying above.

I lost a good friends son at 35 yrs old because he refused to get vaccinated due to possible fertility issues and is now DEAD. My daughters best friend is a oncology / cancer nurse who sent many families tablet goodbyes from there loved ones of all ages and many in good health and she will never be the same. Most begged for the vaccine before they went on the ventillator.

My friend in construction in NYC said he ran into warehouses of body bags at the height of it and puked everyday he went to work.

So whats your point exactly? I believe the science more than the last 6 years of government on this Covid issue. Time will tell on the whales.

[dales529]

so now we can fight amongst ourselves about something we have no control over.we should have some sort of control over what happens but sadly that seems to be a thing of the past.like everything else we will never really know
because now it has become political.instead of letting the public know about the
pro's and cons they simply add up the collateral damages and as long as it fits
then so be it.

sad but true

[reason162]

looks to me like the vaccine saved a lot of lives and credit to the last admin for pushing manufacture regardless of saying above.

The mRNA vaccine will go down as one of the singular achievements in medicine this century. And the speed in which it was developed - over 94% efficacy against severe illness and death...on a novel respiratory virus within months of its DNA published. Just a remarkable testament to the fact that we can still do things right in the science and tech sector, even if this country got an F on the political and social response.

[hammer4reel]

Problem today is each side of an argument only cherry pick the points that solidify their side while TOTALLY ingnoring the other points .

Sure the vaccines may have saved some . It didn’t slow the spread and still hasn’t . Many passing the virus that didn’t even know they had it .

And it’s proven the vaccine killed ten of thousands of young adults , that blew up their hearts . Many who didn’t get to choose due to their professions .(forced to take something they didn’t need )

We can make it mandatory to show a vaccine card to go into Mc Donald’s , but no ID necessary to vote .

It’s now about which narrative they want to push .

.

[AndrewT]

So whats your point exactly? I believe the science more than the last 6 years of government on this Covid issue. Time will tell on the whales.

My point is we were told by our govt we wouldn’t get sick if vaccinated and we wouldn’t transmit if vaccinated. Both turned out to be lies. Now it comes out that if you already had the virus, you’re better protected than with the vaccine. Remember all the commercials from NY State telling us the get vaccinated even if we already had the virus? I do. They were non stop. If you want to take their word that the vaccine saved a lot of people, that’s fine. I’ll take it with a grain of salt.

[AndrewT]

So whether it be vaccine studies or whale studies, if whoever does the studies wants “the science” to show one thing or another, they will. Perfect example is blaming the whale deaths on boat strikes. Let’s say they did ultimately die from boat strikes but before they were hit, they were blasted with sonar and became disoriented causing them to come to the surface and not be able to avoid the boats. If our NJ Government gets this information, what do you think they will blame the deaths on? The sonar of the boat strike?

It’s like blaming a subway for the death of someone who was pushed onto the tracks.

[hammer4reel]

Its obviously concerning the amount of dead whales washing up on our NJ shores. Can not argue that the coincidence of wind farm/ sonar / pre construction doesn't play a role.

NOAA states Atlantic Coast 181 whale stranding's / deaths from 2016 to 2023 = 25 whale deaths per year. Block Island Wind was in 2016.

BUT: Court is still out on cause of each and every stranding's / deaths which are also happening in states without wind farms?

Sad that it ALWAYS has a political twist instead of science and an actual reason.
Most posts here are more politics than facts and I believe the science is not hijacked or weaponized but reduced to report for fear of fake news for either side.

Hate to see these magnificent creatures washing up like this but hope there are real answers not the political BS

Least amount of ship traffic is now during the winter .
Those ships are already more than likely large enough to be under the speed guidelines (above 65’)
Amount of whales in Nj is more than a normal 25 year period .
Info that many more whales and dolphins are dead floating offshore than those getting beached .
No slow down in the main possible cause .

Yet betting you see this info used to QUICKLY pass the law for the speed limit of 35’ boats and larger .
That’s where you will see it’s important to save the whales .


I have over 40 years in power distribution , power performance and ways to create it .
Off shore wind is the costliest , most unproductive source of power their is .
We need cleaner , cheaper made sources , and this is being sold as that . It’s not .
We have already polluted our lands and aquifers with run off from solar panels ..
So now where those solar farms are built guidelines are changing ..
.

Next is the push for electric cars .
IF they started today 24/7 they can’t build a grid that supports half that need .
Let alone upgrade every single household to support one car let alone three or four . Enough areas to charge them etc .
.
Concentration should be on things that can actually happen .
How about they actually let car manufacturers make cars that get 100 mpg.
Betting that technology is already available , but suppressed

[PaBeerGuy]

My point is we were told by our govt we wouldn’t get sick if vaccinated and we wouldn’t transmit if vaccinated. Both turned out to be lies. Now it comes out that if you already had the virus, you’re better protected than with the vaccine. Remember all the commercials from NY State telling us the get vaccinated even if we already had the virus? I do. They were non stop. If you want to take their word that the vaccine saved a lot of people, that’s fine. I’ll take it with a grain of salt.

That's ridiculous ,the government never said we wouldn't get sick or transmit the disease if we got vaccinated. Only that it could prevent serious illness and death. State the facts please.

[hammer4reel]

That's ridiculous ,the government never said we wouldn't get sick or transmit the disease if we got vaccinated. Only that it could prevent serious illness and death. State the facts please.

Your incorrect . The vaccine was promoted as you wouldn’t get Covid , or transmit it .(Stop the spread was the theme)
When the proof was over welming that vaccinated people were getting it repeatedly the narrative changed to the individual wouldn’t become as Ill , and require hospitalization,
.
Otherwise healthy young people would not have been forced to get a vaccine .

.

[Capt Sal]

Just getting over it and it kicked my ass! Got my boosters and still got it. Did it keep me out of the hospital? I think this variant is not as strong and thank god i didn't get the first Covid! Lost quite a few friends and relatives in my age group. Any how THANKS CHINA!!!!

[AndrewT]

That's ridiculous ,the government never said we wouldn't get sick or transmit the disease if we got vaccinated. Only that it could prevent serious illness and death. State the facts please.

Get your head out of the sand, man. Here’s proof of the facts.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1376950399232573442/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1376950399232573442&currentTweetUser=therecount

https://abc3340.com/amp/news/local/those-fully-vaccinated-very-unlikely-to-spread-covid-19-fauci-says

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-2021-video-saying-vaccinations-prevent-covid-resurfaces-1726900?amp=1

[bbfisherman]

Back to the whale topic please. Unfortunately when they necropsy the dead whales they cannot tell whether they were deafened from previous sonar blasting. Why all of a sudden all these dead whales? A deaf whale will have trouble avoiding boat collisions and finding food. It's a fact sonar blasting is not good for marine mammals.

[hammer4reel]

Heard three dolphins washed up by Sandy hook today ?

[AndrewT]

Yup. Must be more boat strikes. Dolphins are notorious for not being able to get out of the way :mad:

https://www.nj.com/monmouth/2023/02/three-dolphins-dead-in-the-shallows-off-sandy-hook.html?outputType=amp

[capt74]

I can see it coming. 8 hours each way for our offshore tuna trips.

[hammer4reel]

I can see it coming. 8 hours each way for our offshore tuna trips.


Double that when they make you drive up to the Ambrose and follow the shipping channel out when they make the wind farm areas off limit during construction . And we can’t run straight out .

.

[capt74]

Well, we can kiss that part of the business godby. Who wants to spend 8- 10 hours to the grounds? Maybe fish for 5- 6 hours and have another 8-10 home.

[NoLimit]

So how are we expected to travel offshore? Running up to Ambrose and then out to the end and then what? 10 knots for 100 miles?

[tautog]

https://media.tenor.com/gnlLk7UYTQ0AAAAC/jaws-boat.gif

[NoLimit]

Not sure where you are headed there. An unprecedented pandemic across 2 Administrations that tried to adapt on the fly. Science involved as quickly as possible not all right but best information at the time. Then came bleach and UV light in the last admin vs the vaccine LOL. looks to me like the vaccine saved a lot of lives and credit to the last admin for pushing manufacture regardless of saying above.

I lost a good friends son at 35 yrs old because he refused to get vaccinated due to possible fertility issues and is now DEAD. My daughters best friend is a oncology / cancer nurse who sent many families tablet goodbyes from there loved ones of all ages and many in good health and she will never be the same. Most begged for the vaccine before they went on the ventillator.

My friend in construction in NYC said he ran into warehouses of body bags at the height of it and puked everyday he went to work.

So whats your point exactly? I believe the science more than the last 6 years of government on this Covid issue. Time will tell on the whales.

That’s remarkable because we never shut down and in all the factories and reservoirs and military bases and shipyards and rail yards we worked in for 2 years, not one of the 10,000 people died. Two were hospitalized and go better. And the only person who nearly died and is now bed ridden was a healthy person who got vaccinated

[frugalfisherman]

Well, we can kiss that part of the business godby. Who wants to spend 8- 10 hours to the grounds? Maybe fish for 5- 6 hours and have another 8-10 home.

Wouldn't have to worry about it if Trump was president

[dales529]

That’s remarkable because we never shut down and in all the factories and reservoirs and military bases and shipyards and rail yards we worked in for 2 years, not one of the 10,000 people died. Two were hospitalized and go better. And the only person who nearly died and is now bed ridden was a healthy person who got vaccinated

Says the man who predicted 200 to 300 deaths total country wide!:eek:
There will always be a spin on any issue and i am sure that's what happened in your small world. We (my company) were lucky too and worked through it without shutting down with little to no illness but what does that mean on the scale of 300 plus million AMERICANS who 1 million plus didn't fare so well?
Answer: not so much to those that lost loved ones!

[dales529]

Wouldn't have to worry about it if Trump was president

Was involved with many fisheries boards that endorsed him and were excited that he would endorse recreational fishery management. Sadly nothing good happened unless you can provide some legislation I am unaware of with his endorsement or that of his staff, appointed judges, his kids or mistresses that helped anything recreational fishing wise anywhere.

Modern Fishing Act:? You hate it
Recreational Parks endorsement? been done before

[hammer4reel]

Was involved with many fisheries boards that endorsed him and were excited that he would endorse recreational fishery management. Sadly nothing happened unless you can provide some legislation I am unaware of with his endorsement or that of his staff, appointed judges, his kids or mistresses helped anything recreational fishing wise anywhere.

He didn’t help , was lots of talk but nothing happened .
BUT he also didn’t do things that hurt us either fishing related .

Three more whales this week , 2 offshore of manasquan and one in the Ambrose channel .

[dales529]

He didn’t help , was lots of talk but nothing happened .
BUT he also didn’t do things that hurt us either fishing related .

Three more whales this week , 2 offshore of manasquan and one in the Ambrose channel .

Dan: Agreed but hate the blanket statements which aren't true.

Also "others" have posted that the sonar mapping was stopped! I have found nothing to confirm that but if TRUE these recent whale deaths would not be attributed to that but again I have found nothing that confirms it was stopped but WAS posted here.

Would just be nice if posters stuck to facts instead of theory. Spent many hours and conversations with NJ officials and have to admit still don't know what I don't know so don't post theory.

[hammer4reel]

Dan: Agreed but hate the blanket statements which aren't true.

Also "others" have posted that the sonar mapping was stopped! I have found nothing to confirm that but if TRUE these recent whale deaths would not be attributed to that but again I have found nothing that confirms it was stopped but WAS posted here.

Would just be nice if posters stuck to facts instead of theory. Spent many hours and conversations with NJ officials and have to admit still don't know what I don't know so don't post theory.

Who knows how long these whales have been dead already .
But just the thought of more whales found dead in months , than a normal few decades should have a serious investigations.
.

.

[dales529]

Who knows how long these whales have been dead already .
But just the thought of more whales found dead in months , than a normal few decades should have a serious investigations.
.

.

Agreed it warrants serious answers as its sickening to see. I am still reading anything I can find on the subject.

here is a link from Alaska where the whales found a way to steal fish from longliners let alone NOT get entangled and the fishermen used acoustics / sounds to drive them away to no avail.
https://lithub.com/how-the-resurgence-of-whale-populations-impacts-our-ecosystem/
I really want answers but don't know if we will ever get the real ones..

Some info still being looked at:
Whale populations highest ever in NJ. Inshore whale population out of the norm due to warmer waters and rise in bunker population?
Putting more Whales in ship strike zones as cargo ships are in the area year round?
Sonar mapping lower frequency @ 5 to 20 HZ than Navy Sonar and standard rec transducers from 50 to 200 HZ?
Navy Sonar used for years known to cause erractic behavior in Beak Whales?

[bulletbob]

Yes ladies and gentlemen, the answer to our questions has been revealed.. The NY Times has taken a side, and its VERY convenient for those that would love to stop fishing and boating, as it kills whales. Now its time to develop all that ""clean wind energy"" that is on the way, and is so badly needed ...

It seems the whales are dying of collisions with ships and boats..
So now, the offshore wind farm development can go forth, as it does no harm, AND it makes wonderfully perfect sense to limit ocean going motor vessels to 10 knots or whatever their enlightened figure is... That way the whales won't die, and we'll have abundant clean wind energy,,, right?
It has to be the right way to proceed.. The Times said it was motor vessel collisions... They know...... right?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-23-dead-whales-washed-124824174.html

[dales529]

Yes ladies and gentlemen, the answer to our questions has been revealed.. The NY Times has taken a side, and its VERY convenient for those that would love to stop fishing and boating, as it kills whales. Now its time to develop all that ""clean wind energy"" that is on the way, and is so badly needed ...

It seems the whales are dying of collisions with ships and boats..
So now, the offshore wind farm development can go forth, as it does no harm, AND it makes wonderfully perfect sense to limit ocean going motor vessels to 10 knots or whatever their enlightened figure is... That way the whales won't die, and we'll have abundant clean wind energy,,, right?
It has to be the right way to proceed.. The Times said it was motor vessel collisions... They know...... right?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-23-dead-whales-washed-124824174.html

Bob
Also Fox news has taken a stand that basically confirms the NY times article although with Biden in the mix. We all know recently that Fox news is an entertainment channel NOT a news channel as the top 3 are proven liars.
With that said it can be stated that whales deaths are mainly from ship strikes, the issue at hand is that is the mapping, construction of the wind farms contributing via sonar / noise etc to moving these whales out of their normal migration / feeding path into the path of cargo ships and or the wind farm construction ships which many are working on to find the answers.

Not everything is a conspiracy! Science will prevail not the news but I attached the Fox news clip anyway. There are many to hold accountable now fact finding is crucial. NOT Alternative Facts just Fact.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-scientist-raised-alarm-offshore-wind-harming-whales-months-ago

[AndrewT]

Not everything is a conspiracy! Science will prevail [/url]


If they are simply chalking the deaths up to boat strikes and not looking for the root cause of the deaths and simply blaming the end result for the deaths, please enlighten me as to how “science” will prevail.

[dales529]

If they are simply chalking the deaths up to boat strikes and not looking for the root cause of the deaths and simply blaming the end result for the deaths, please enlighten me as to how “science” will prevail.

Andrew:
First off this not an argument one way or the other. I believe we all want answers but skeptical if we will.
My statement " science will prevail" is simple:
If there were an independent serious investigation on whale deaths vs wind farms where would the information come from:
A) Pro wind politicians
B) Anti wind politicians
C) Pro wind journalists
D) Anti wind journalists
E) Marine Biologists / Science

At the end of the day the true facts will be based on science not theory or conjecture. Right now the evidence is ship strikes and to your point not much on root cause except (3) Three groups have provided information that "suggest" wind farm construction is not the cause.

Unprecedented whale deaths from 2016 to 2023 @ 10 per year east coast with the most 34 in 2017. Before wind farms.

So where do we find the answers? It takes many people getting involved, looking at not news reports or political findings and may require fundraising for an independent study.

At the end of the day if we trash Science under the guise of conspiracy, political control and or false reports there is no hope. Most scientists I have encountered in fishing are dedicated to marine conservation and health of our oceans and fisheries including those who work for government grant funded establishments.

Ever watch Blue Planet from BBC or Chris Fischer from Ocearch?

Science and math generates technology improvements doing more good than bad not BS, always has and always will.

[AndrewT]

While we wait for the independent research, animals keep dying. Another one today https://nj1015.com/whale-spotted-floating-off-seaside-park-nj-beach/

[dales529]

While we wait for the independent research, animals keep dying. Another one today https://nj1015.com/whale-spotted-floating-off-seaside-park-nj-beach/

Yes its horrible! This may be the same one from Monday seen in Ambrose Channel but either way agreed its another dead whale. Open to your opinion on how to move forward? Couple of bills out there in NJ to stop sonar mapping and /or construction but lets face it those take time and with the $$ invested its probably not going too far. As stated some have posted that the sonar mapping stopped but I have yet to confirm that.

Reach out to NJ DEP / Fish and Game , NJ Marine Fisheries Council.
www.dept.nj.gov

Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council: www.mafmc.0rg

NJ Rep Chris Smith 732-780-3035 Monmouth NJ / 732-504-0567 Toms River NJ / 202-225-3765 Washington DC

www.joinrfa.org RFA National

Let me know how you make out with contacting these people.

[hammer4reel]

Yes its horrible! This may be the same one from Monday seen in Ambrose Channel but either way agreed its another dead whale. Open to your opinion on how to move forward? Couple of bills out there in NJ to stop sonar mapping and /or construction but lets face it those take time and with the $$ invested its probably not going too far. As stated some have posted that the sonar mapping stopped but I have yet to confirm that.

Reach out to NJ DEP / Fish and Game , NJ Marine Fisheries Council.
www.dept.nj.gov

Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council: www.mafmc.0rg

NJ Rep Chris Smith 732-780-3035 Monmouth NJ / 732-504-0567 Toms River NJ / 202-225-3765 Washington DC








www.joinrfa.org RFA National

Let me know how you make out with contacting these people.

The logical thing would be to do the soundings from June through December when the whales aren’t here .

But instead they want to claim it’s all the cargo ships bringing in back logged product so dire to meet our needs .

But those ships already have the 10 knot speed limit .
.

[dales529]

The logical thing would be to do the soundings from June through December when the whales aren’t here .

But instead they want to claim it’s all the cargo ships bringing in back logged product so dire to meet our needs .

But those ships already have the 10 knot speed limit .
.

Again Dan no argument here. Logic and government has never been a thing in my life. I assume when you say 'they" you mean politicians?

[Jigman13]

One washed up on the breezy point jetty.

[Gumada]

Another 2 whales wash up one at Seaside, another at breezy point NY. And a dolphin at Brigantine....when is enough, enough.....

4 dead dolphins at Sandy Hook in the last week also....while they are doing soundings in the bay ....

[Duffman]

What’s the purpose of the soundings being done in the bay?

And why in that location? Seems to be between the K-burg hole and the Reach. Odd area to be looking.

[Bluefish]

and clearly there are virtually no party or private boats out there so why should they be penalized with the 10 kt limit. this fleet of boats has nothing to do with the problem of dead whales and dolphins.

[Gumada]

What’s the purpose of the soundings being done in the bay?

And why in that location? Seems to be between the K-burg hole and the Reach. Odd area to be looking.

I assume it’s for the cables to bring power on shore from the turbines planned off the hook. I heard that they are surveying for unexploded ordinance for now ahead of plowing the bottom....

[Foul Hook]

I assume it’s for the cables to bring power on shore from the turbines planned off the hook. I heard that they are surveying for unexploded ordinance for now ahead of plowing the bottom....
Power generated from the wind farm nearest to monmouth and ocean counties will land at the now closed Oyster creek nuke site because there is electrical grid there. Power generated from the farms off of Ocean city will go into Beasley point sotluth west of Atlantic city again because grid connections.

[dales529]

Dead whales are washing ashore on the East Coast and officials are looking into animal safety near wind farms

BYWAYNE PARRY AND THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
March 3, 2023 at 10:51 AM EST

As dead whales continue to wash ashore on the U.S. East Coast — and particularly the Jersey Shore — officials and academics are planning a wide array of monitoring and research aimed at preventing or minimizing harm to whales and other marine life during construction and operation of offshore wind farms.

A dead whale washed ashore Thursday in New Jersey, a day after another was found in New York amid a continuing wave of whale deaths along the East Coast. Twenty-five of the animals have died since Dec. 1, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

A research and monitoring initiative announced last year by New Jersey environmental and utility regulators is launching numerous projects to establish a baseline of current ocean conditions, with plans for monitoring while wind farms are built and operated.

The $26 million program is funded — but not carried out — by the offshore wind companies Orsted and Atlantic Shores, which are required by the state to pay for the research as part of their projects.

Similar wind-related research is being carried out by states from Maine to South Carolina, officials said.

The research was announced well before a spate of whale deaths became politicized, with opponents of offshore wind blaming the deaths on site preparation work for wind farms off New Jersey and New York. Various elected officials are pushing for a pause or a total halt to offshore wind projects, citing the whale deaths.

But three federal scientific agencies — the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, and the Marine Mammal Commission — say there is no evidence linking offshore wind activities to whale deaths.

The federal government has been studying whale deaths since it declared an “unusual mortality event” involving humpbacks in 2016. Since then, 186 of the animals have died between Maine and Florida, with a high of 34 in 2017.

The New Jersey work includes placing listening devices on the ocean floor to record the presence of whales and other marine mammals in a specific area, and deploying an undersea glider equipped with sensors that can hear whale calls. It also includes tracking the movement of various fish species and using environmental DNA to tell which animals have been in specific areas of the ocean.

Some of the efforts are already underway, including a sound recorder operated by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute on a buoy off Atlantic City, while others are set to begin as soon as next month.

“We have the opportunity to get the lay of the land,” said Kira Lawrence, of the state Board of Public Utilities, who gave an update this week on the projects. “It’s important that we get a handle on what is out there and how is it changing right now. We can get a sense of when and where whales are around project areas.”

Other work involved in the initiative includes the development of a special dredge for surf clams that can maneuver more easily in tight spaces around wind farms, supporting a regional multi-state wildlife study, and the possible use of wind turbine platforms as monitoring stations for wildlife and environmental conditions.
The update on the research work came amid a continuing wave of whale deaths along the East Coast.

Necropsies were conducted on 13 of the 25 whales that have washed ashore since Dec. 1, revealing that ship strikes were the likely cause of at least eight of the deaths, said NOAA spokesperson Andrea Gomez. The agency is awaiting the results of microscopic tissue samples on the remaining animals, she added.

The breakdown of deaths by species is: 18 humpback whales between New York and North Carolina; 3 sperm whales between New York and Florida; two North Atlantic right whales in North Carolina and Virginia; one sei whale in North Carolina and one minke whale in New York, according to NOAA.

New York has several similar research projects underway, including the use of miniature transmitting tags for birds and bats near offshore wind farms, a study of how sea birds might interact with wind turbines, and creation of a database to incorporate anglers’ knowledge into offshore wind decisions.

New Jersey projects not yet approved for funding, but which are envisioned, include sea turtle tagging to monitor their movements, and expanding studies of birds and bats.

During an online presentation of the initiative Monday by state officials, opponents of offshore wind renewed complaints about the wind turbines’ visibility from shore and voiced fears that wind projects will harm or kill wildlife.

“I just want to make sure we don’t permanently remove these beautiful animals from our coastline,” said Randall Snyder, a radiologist from Harvey Cedars on Long Beach Island, one of several hotbeds of local opposition to offshore wind.

[hammer4reel]

NOT TRUE, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRE PLAN FOR NJ/NY. STOP PROPAGATION OF CR@P INFORMATION ! They have a plan for all of the east coast !

His information is accurate for those 2 areas .

A lot of info here , though need to get redirected many times to see whole impacts

https://dep.nj.gov/offshorewind/

[Gerry Zagorski]

Dead whales are washing ashore on the East Coast and officials are looking into animal safety near wind farms


BYWAYNE PARRY AND THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

March 3, 2023 at 10:51 AM EST



As dead whales continue to wash ashore on the U.S. East Coast — and particularly the Jersey Shore — officials and academics are planning a wide array of monitoring and research aimed at preventing or minimizing harm to whales and other marine life during construction and operation of offshore wind farms.



A dead whale washed ashore Thursday in New Jersey, a day after another was found in New York amid a continuing wave of whale deaths along the East Coast. Twenty-five of the animals have died since Dec. 1, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.



A research and monitoring initiative announced last year by New Jersey environmental and utility regulators is launching numerous projects to establish a baseline of current ocean conditions, with plans for monitoring while wind farms are built and operated.



The $26 million program is funded — but not carried out — by the offshore wind companies Orsted and Atlantic Shores, which are required by the state to pay for the research as part of their projects.



Similar wind-related research is being carried out by states from Maine to South Carolina, officials said.



The research was announced well before a spate of whale deaths became politicized, with opponents of offshore wind blaming the deaths on site preparation work for wind farms off New Jersey and New York. Various elected officials are pushing for a pause or a total halt to offshore wind projects, citing the whale deaths.



But three federal scientific agencies — the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, and the Marine Mammal Commission — say there is no evidence linking offshore wind activities to whale deaths.



The federal government has been studying whale deaths since it declared an “unusual mortality event” involving humpbacks in 2016. Since then, 186 of the animals have died between Maine and Florida, with a high of 34 in 2017.



The New Jersey work includes placing listening devices on the ocean floor to record the presence of whales and other marine mammals in a specific area, and deploying an undersea glider equipped with sensors that can hear whale calls. It also includes tracking the movement of various fish species and using environmental DNA to tell which animals have been in specific areas of the ocean.



Some of the efforts are already underway, including a sound recorder operated by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute on a buoy off Atlantic City, while others are set to begin as soon as next month.



“We have the opportunity to get the lay of the land,” said Kira Lawrence, of the state Board of Public Utilities, who gave an update this week on the projects. “It’s important that we get a handle on what is out there and how is it changing right now. We can get a sense of when and where whales are around project areas.”



Other work involved in the initiative includes the development of a special dredge for surf clams that can maneuver more easily in tight spaces around wind farms, supporting a regional multi-state wildlife study, and the possible use of wind turbine platforms as monitoring stations for wildlife and environmental conditions.

The update on the research work came amid a continuing wave of whale deaths along the East Coast.



Necropsies were conducted on 13 of the 25 whales that have washed ashore since Dec. 1, revealing that ship strikes were the likely cause of at least eight of the deaths, said NOAA spokesperson Andrea Gomez. The agency is awaiting the results of microscopic tissue samples on the remaining animals, she added.



The breakdown of deaths by species is: 18 humpback whales between New York and North Carolina; 3 sperm whales between New York and Florida; two North Atlantic right whales in North Carolina and Virginia; one sei whale in North Carolina and one minke whale in New York, according to NOAA.



New York has several similar research projects underway, including the use of miniature transmitting tags for birds and bats near offshore wind farms, a study of how sea birds might interact with wind turbines, and creation of a database to incorporate anglers’ knowledge into offshore wind decisions.



New Jersey projects not yet approved for funding, but which are envisioned, include sea turtle tagging to monitor their movements, and expanding studies of birds and bats.



During an online presentation of the initiative Monday by state officials, opponents of offshore wind renewed complaints about the wind turbines’ visibility from shore and voiced fears that wind projects will harm or kill wildlife.



“I just want to make sure we don’t permanently remove these beautiful animals from our coastline,” said Randall Snyder, a radiologist from Harvey Cedars on Long Beach Island, one of several hotbeds of local opposition to offshore wind.

[Dutchie]

Come on folks they killed a thousand whales in Europe and they know why How many do they have to kill here before they're stopped More whales this year than in previous years combined give me a break

[Gumada]

Here ya go...

Take
Take is defined under the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) as "to harass, hunt, capture, or kill, or attempt to harass, hunt, capture, or kill any marine mammal" (16 U.S.C. 1362) and further defined by regulation (50 CFR 216.3) as "to harass, hunt, capture, collect, or kill, or attempt to harass, hunt, capture, collect, or kill any marine mammal. This includes, without limitation, any of the following:

the collection of dead animals, or parts thereof

the restraint or detention of a marine mammal, no matter how temporary

tagging a marine mammal

the negligent or intentional operation of an aircraft or vessel

the doing of any other negligent or intentional act which results in disturbing or molesting a marine mammal

feeding or attempting to feed a marine mammal in the wild"

Take is defined under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) as "to harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or to attempt to engage in any such conduct."

[Broad Bill]

As soon as the news came out regarding vessel speed restrictions, I think most people knew it was a cover for what was about to come from the commencement of seismic testing for wind farm development. If recreational and or commercial vessels pose such a threat to the whale and porpoise population, answer two questions. I've been fishing the offshore canyons for over 20 years and as anybody who goes offshore knows, you search out schools of whales and porpoise to find the bait and pelagics. Not once in all my years offshore have I ever hit, seen hit, or witnessed a dead carcass. I'm curious how many members on this site have. And that takes into consideration the amount of times when you get offshore there's so many boats out there it looks like Manhattan, yet still no vessel strikes. As long as mammals aren't bombarded with sound waves, they know where vessels are and steer clear. Take that ability away and they're extremely vulnerable.

Second, if you do the research, ship traffic out of the New York / New Jersey harbor which is the second largest port in the country, is down 40% since late last year in terms of the number of cargo ships entering and or departing the port. Whales were absolutely all over the place this year inshore on schools of bunker and sand eels which is why there were so many party boats that got in on whale watching. Unprecedented numbers of whales and porpoise not seen in years. If the powers to be want us to believe that what's happened over the last 2 months is due to whale strikes and not seismic testing, why didn't we see an upsurge in the summer months that coincided with the increase in the population in both commercial and recreational boat traffic in this area and the increased whale population. I don't recall reading of one mammal washing ashore in the summer and fall yet all these carcasses started showing up at the exact time seismic testing started. Coincidence, I guess everybody can draw their own conclusions but personally I don't buy it. I believe science knows what happened, but like everything else in our government today the story we're told is the narrative they want us to hear and not the story science's data supports. After all, does anybody really believe China paid Hunter Biden $500,000 for the artistic value of his paint by number paintings or the federal government along with the military's scientists never knew the water at Camp Lejeune was completely contaminated for decades.

[Gumada]

As soon as the news came out regarding vessel speed restrictions, I think most people knew it was a cover for what was about to come from the commencement of seismic testing for wind farm development. If recreational and or commercial vessels pose such a threat to the whale and porpoise population, answer two questions. I've been fishing the offshore canyons for over 20 years and as anybody who goes offshore knows, you search out schools of whales and porpoise to find the bait and pelagics. Not once in all my years offshore have I ever hit, seen hit, or witnessed a dead carcass. I'm curious how many members on this site have. And that takes into consideration the amount of times when you get offshore there's so many boats out there it looks like Manhattan, yet still no vessel strikes. As long as mammals aren't I bombarded with sound waves, they know where vessels are and steer clear. Take that ability away and they're extremely vulnerable.

Second, if you do the research, ship traffic out of the New York / New Jersey harbor which is the second largest port in the country, is down 40% since late last year in terms of the number of cargo ships entering and or departing the port. Whales were absolutely all over the place this year inshore on schools of bunker and sand eels which is why there were so many party boats that got in on whale watching. Unprecedented numbers of whales and porpoise not seen in years. If the powers to be want us to believe that what's happened over the last 2 months is due to whale strikes and not seismic testing, why didn't we see an upsurge in the summer months that coincided with the increase in the population in both commercial and recreational boat traffic in this area and the increased whale population. I don't recall reading of one mammal washing ashore in the summer and fall yet all these carcasses started showing up at the exact time seismic testing started. Coincidence, I guess everybody can draw their own conclusions but personally I don't buy it. I believe science knows what happened, but like everything else in our government today the story we're told is the narrative they want us to hear and not the story science's data supports After all, does anybody really believe China paid Hunter Biden $500,000 for the artistic value of his paint by number paintings or the federal government along with the military's scientists never knew the water at Camp Lejeune was completely contaminated for decades.

I have fished my entire life from LI, raritan bay to AC and out to the Hudson and southern canyons...never have I seen or heard of a whale being struck by a boat or seen a dead whale. I do believe occasionally a whale is struck by a large cargo type vessel, but those are very few and far between. Same with entanglements, never seen one only heard of an occasional situation.

[Broad Bill]

I think everyone understands occasional strikes happen but this is unprecedented numbers within a very short window that coincides precisely with the timeline wind farm testing began. I'm also one that agrees science and the data they develop is critical in decision making but these occurrences are just too related to be an anomaly or coincidence. The narrative released will never risk the ongoing development of wind farms any more than the tobacco companies for years would admit nicotine caused cancer and was addictive or the NFL admitted constant blunt force trauma caused CTE. In both those cases, science knew the consequential damages but the powers to be ignored the data and spun a different narrative completely. In my opinion, that's what's happening here.

[CODCHALY]

I was on two boats that hit Whales on way to TUNA Grounds. Both Hits removed Prop shafts, and in the darkest of night. One out of Belmar ( highly respected Charter Capt). Won't name Boat or Capt. Early 1990's.
Another, more recent, again, darkest of night. Same , Headed to TUNA Grounds
again, took whole prop shaft.
I am one lucky Person. Have any of You experienced how FAST a repair at Sea must be made, when taking on Water. Every Passenger, both Times became Crew !!!

[Gumada]

I was on two boats that hit Whales on way to TUNA Grounds. Both Hits removed Prop shafts, and in the darkest of night. One out of Belmar ( highly respected Charter Capt). Won't name Boat or Capt. Early 1990's.
Another, more recent, again, darkest of night. Same , Headed to TUNA Grounds
again, took whole prop shaft.
I am one lucky Person. Have any of You experienced how FAST a repair at Sea must be made, when taking on Water. Every Passenger, both Times became Crew !!!

Were they reported ? In the darkest of night

[bbfisherman]

2019 had a whale encounter. Very scary we were lucky lost one engine damaged two others. With that said all these whales dying or getting hit within the last several months is not normal.

[Broad Bill]

I was on two boats that hit Whales on way to TUNA Grounds. Both Hits removed Prop shafts, and in the darkest of night. One out of Belmar ( highly respected Charter Capt). Won't name Boat or Capt. Early 1990's.
Another, more recent, again, darkest of night. Same , Headed to TUNA Grounds
again, took whole prop shaft.
I am one lucky Person. Have any of You experienced how FAST a repair at Sea must be made, when taking on Water. Every Passenger, both Times became Crew !!!

Cod I can't even imagine losing the prop shaft or any other through hull fitting at night heading offshore. Experience must have been terrifying for you and everyone else on board, happy you got through it to tell your story.

To give context to your experiences, two whale strikes over how many years going offshore. And curious, since it was the darkest of nights you mentioned, how did the captain or crew know it was a whale strike as opposed to floating debris? Not questioning you, just curious how you knew in both instances it was a whale the vessel you were on hit.

[CODCHALY]

#82, most fish finders read Whales. No clue how many times I've been Offshore. I could sit down and over 50 years of Log Books and collect that answer. I honestly forget how many days at Sea I needed to get my License, which has been retired 20 years.
https://www.westmarine.com/seafit-wooden-emergency-bungs-plugs-4641080.html
These should be on every prop driven boat, and a sledge hammer.
I got involved in Coast Guard AUX. Started just to Operate a 12 ft boat legally on Delaware River, 1970. Amazing the stuff I learned from them. Moved pretty far up the Ranks, before it got Political and I quit. But before quitting They awarded me some nice MUSTANG SURVIVAL gear. I was Mate on Charter boat, and never retrieved anchor in dark without my survival vest, with pockets. Knife, strobe, signal mirror, whistle. Like an idiot, I left that vest on vessel.
I've since bought two more, one for me, one for Wife. I had no idea how expensive they were. Like I typed, my original was Awarded to me.

[CODCHALY]

I went back a page. Someone Posted, they never, HIT, SEEN, or HEARD of a Whale getting HIT. I don't fish strictly from NJ. 1998-2000, I Operated out of Indian River, Delaware (That gig came to a screeching halt when boat owner got divorced), anyway one Summer, for quite a few weeks a large Whale carcass, almost seemed anchored, attracting many sharks. Was an amazing site. I never carried a camera (too much crew work to be done), and before phones had camera built in. Back then I had a MOTOLLA flip phone, ATT.
And that phone, as a phone was much better then the hi tech phone I'm using today.

[CODCHALY]

Here's a funny Whale story (not according to the Captain, though).
One Summer, chunking Tuna on a Charter Boat out of Belmar. I was second Capt, ten Passengers, Master, and Mate, all sleeping, and I had a Right Whale keeping me Company all night. When I wasn't feeding it enough chunks it (male/female, I D K) It started bumping Transom, that finally woke up Captain, He wasn't Happy at all. Made me pull anchor and we moved. I wish I had that on video, hand feeding a Mammal that could swallow me whole. Whales are very Friendly. I've played with them from Newfoundland, as far as Homer, Alaska.

So, YEAH I'm against wind turbine, not only in Ocean, I'm also against killing Birds Inland !!!

[Broad Bill]

Here's a post I pulled from a different site. Very interesting and insightful based on the subject matter of this thread.

"Not one mention of the internal memo Sean Hayes, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) chief of protected species wrote on May 12, 2022 warning of the impacts offshore wind development would have on marine life along the East Coast. It stated "The development of offshore wind poses risks to these species, which is magnified in southern New England waters due to species abundance and distribution. These risks occur at varying stages, including construction and development, and include increased noise, vessel traffic, habitat modifications, water withdrawals associated with certain substations...." The East Coast is in the midst of a seven-year whale die-off that caused NOAA to declare an Unusual Mortality Event. What else started seven years ago? Offshore wind lease sales really geared up in 2015-16, with nine big sales off New Jersey, New York, Delaware and Massachusetts. These sales generated a lot of activity, including geotechnical and site characterization surveys. Site characterization typically includes the protracted use of a shipboard device that emits an incredibly loud noise often for hours at a time, as the ship slowly maps the sea floor."

Here's a link to the full article for anyone interested.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-scientist-raised-alarm-offshore-wind-harming-whales-months-ago

Imagine having an MRI done for a month straight around the clock, does anyone honestly believe your ability to function wouldn't be impaired or you'd even still be alive. That's in my opinion what's taking place with wind farm development and I believe the data from science exists to support and quantify the collateral damage we're seeing occur. There's problems we need to address on this planet and along with those changes are risks, some acceptable for the greater good and some not. Most would accept that. What no one should accept are the lies told, in light of science's own data, to justify a predetermined narrative.

[CODCHALY]

Broad Bill, Post #86. If this FORUM had a like Button, I'd Hit LIKE !!!

[AndyS]

They built these wind farms in other areas, correct. Were whales not killed during that construction, or is this a first ?

[Pennsy Guy]

You all know it's about how much money will we get by saying yes. It's common knowledge that whales use an audible (even to us ******* humans) sonar for echo locating, vocal communication, what we call "singing". This administration, local, state, federal, have their hand out and vehemently nod affirmably what comes out of the White House. Humm,,,how many countries world-wide, without any seaside, give a damn about the whale. Every one with access to the sea wants to rape it---take it all, we have people to feed, money to make.
The wind mills will be built, the whales will die, the gov't will impose more speed restrictions--after the mills are in operation, deaths decrease, gov't, NOAA will point their finger, slap themselves on the back, say " See, we knew what we were talking about.== Good, you all keep your jobs. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances which are unfolding, but, unfortunately, inevitable given the mindset of the hierarchy. The world is indeed, laughing at us.
OH, I don't want the whales to die, feel privileged to see them both in and offshore, but the refusal to face the real cause is truly asinine.

[Gumada]

They built these wind farms in other areas, correct. Were whales not killed during that construction, or is this a first ?


Here you go Andy,

This is NOAA’s site for humpback deaths from 2016 to almost present covering the UME. If you filter year by year you can follow the carnage that directly correlates with the wind turbine work from north to south. Unfortunately it only covers humpbacks not all cetacean deaths.

https://noaa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=f9eef8e52fc84144b1bfc84e931ba54c

[Exit135]

It's a simple analysis, cost vs. benefit, as it has always been and always will be.

[Broad Bill]

It's a simple analysis, cost vs. benefit, as it has always been and always will be.

Exit,

While I agree with your comment that's the way it should be, there are any number of instances where decisions being made by the federal government don't follow that formula. Meaning cost outweighs the benefit but when you get politics involved decisions are made for reasons other than cost benefit analysis. Do you think every project involved in the recently passed $1.7 trillion Omnibus bill passed by the outgoing Congress was cost justified. Not a chance.

In addition, there's two major problems I personally have with how these wind farms are being managed. First this is all backed by foreign investment, in particular a Denmark company. Current administration can propose a $6.8 trillion budget, approve a $1.7 trillion Omnibus spending bill before the new house took effect but as a country we can't invest $100 billion in our own green energy infrastructure. Makes absolutely no sense.

Second, and based on NOAA's own admission, the true cost and consequential costs and the true benefits of this project are indeterminable at this stage because this is new technology and we have insufficient data to understand what economic consequences or benefits wind farm development could potentially cause. Just remember, if these wind farms have an impact on any part of the marine food chain, it's going to have an impact on the entire food chain. And what impact will all this have on the larval stage and early stage development of all species including mammals, fish and crustaceans. No one can say for sure because no studies have been done to determine the impacts. This issue should have been addressed 20 years ago by our government while we had time. Instead the federal government sat on their hands and now we're moving at light speed without regard for unforeseen and potentially severe economic and environmental consequences which I believe we're already beginning to see.

[Gerry Zagorski]

So if all of a sudden there was Chocolate flooding the streets of small towns in Central PA, wouldn't Hershey be the first place you'd look?

[Broad Bill]

So if all of a sudden there was Chocolate flooding the streets of small towns in Central PA, wouldn't Hershey be the first place you'd look?

As the saying goes, "Where there's smoke there's fire". The last two months there's been a whole lot of smoke and it's just a matter of time before the fire reveals itself.

[shresearchdude]

Just some more info to consider.

About E360
Yale Environment 360 is an online magazine offering opinion, analysis, reporting, and debate on global environmental issues. We feature original articles by scientists, journalists, environmentalists, academics, policy makers, and business people, as well as multimedia content and a daily digest of major environmental news.

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https://e360.yale.edu/features/humpback-whale-strandings-u.s.-east-coast

[Gumada]

A senior Biden administration scientist authored an internal memo in May 2022 warning of the impacts offshore wind development may have on marine life months before the recent spate of whale deaths along the East Coast.

Sean Hayes, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) chief of protected species, penned the memo in May 2022 and sent it to Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM) lead biologist Brian Hooker, also copying more than a dozen other scientists from the two agencies. The memo highlighted Hayes' concerns about how offshore wind construction and surveying could disrupt the endangered Atlantic right whale.
"The development of offshore wind poses risks to these species, which is magnified in southern New England waters due to species abundance and distribution," Hayes wrote in the letter dated May 13. "These risks occur at varying stages, including construction and development, and include increased noise, vessel traffic, habitat modifications, water withdrawals associated with certain substations."
"The focus of this memo is on operational effects, and as such, focuses on potential oceanographic impacts driving right whale prey distribution, but also acknowledges increased risks due to increased vessel traffic and noise," he continued. "However, unlike vessel traffic and noise, which can be mitigated to some extent, oceanographic impacts from installed and operating turbines cannot be mitigated for the 30-year lifespan of the project, unless they are decommissioned."

Hayes added that offshore wind development may also impact the distribution, abundance and availability of typical right whale food by causing oceanographic changes. Such infrastructure may also increase entanglement risks posed to whales since fishing techniques and efforts would be impact by wind farms.
The revelation that administration officials were concerned about how offshore wind impacts whales comes amid an uptick in whale deaths along the Atlantic coast. At least 12 dead whales have beached in New Jersey, New York, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia since December 2022.

[Broad Bill]

Just some more info to consider.

About E360
Yale Environment 360 is an online magazine offering opinion, analysis, reporting, and debate on global environmental issues. We feature original articles by scientists, journalists, environmentalists, academics, policy makers, and business people, as well as multimedia content and a daily digest of major environmental news.

Yale Environment 360 is published at the Yale School of the Environment. We receive funding from the Ford Foundation, the BAND Foundation, the William Penn Foundation, the Heinz Endowments, and the Climate and Land Use Alliance (CLUA). All of Yale Environment 360’s editorial decisions and judgments are made independently and not on the basis of donor support.

The opinions and views expressed in Yale Environment 360 are those of the authors and not of the Yale School of the Environment or of Yale University.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/humpback-whale-strandings-u.s.-east-coast

Shresearchdude,

Personally I appreciate the work researchers and science do, without it we'd be living in the dark ages and making decisions blindly. So my perspective is by no means about not needing science in this world. Anyone thinking otherwise, in my opinion, wouldn't be thinking clearly.

I read the article you posted in the link before you actually posted it. What it says to me when I read it is there's a lot we don't know and need to learn about consequences and benefits associated with ocean based wind farms yet we're moving ahead with massive investments and installations without understanding the short term or long term consequences of those decision on fish, mammals, crustaceans, the economy and the environment. The consequences of that decision could range from benign to catastrophic and everything in between. Keep in mind this is on the heels of Covid and the politically charged narrative provided the public that resulted in 700 million people world wide contracting the virus and almost 7 million deaths.

I love how in the article in upper case red letters it says :

Almost all the humpback strandings that occurred in New York and New Jersey this winter had clear signs of a vessel strike.

Yet in the body of the article it says :

Indeed, almost all of the humpback strandings that have occurred in New York and New Jersey this winter had clear signs of vessel strike, though it is unknown if the collisions occurred before or after the whales died. (Most of the full necropsy results are still pending.)

I guess they just failed to leave out that most important point when editing the piece and highlighting the narrative they want us to believe.

Gulf of Maine is heating up and bunker and krill are heading south as are whales. Haven't seen much krill in our local waters and the resurgence of bunker in our area isn't due to climate change. It's due to restriction imposed on Cooke Inc. and Omega Protein who were destroying the menhaden population in Delaware Bay and up and down the Eastern Seaboard. If most of the Humpback Whale population migrates to the Caribbean in the winter, how are Gulf of Maine waters too warm for their liking. I'm sure those waters are still teeming with krill, menhaden, mackerel, silverbacks, pollack, smelts, sand eels, cod, herring and haddock. All part of the whale food chain. But the article would want us to believe global warming, which seems to be the go to smoking gun these days for everything unknown, is pushing all other stocks further north and east but in this case and for unexplained reason is pushing the whale population south. Why, because in my opinion it fits the narrative the federal government is selling to protect wind farm development.

As I asked in my earlier post, if any part of this article is true, why didn't we witness a significant amount of marine mammals washing ashore in the summer months when more whales took up residence inshore (unprecedented numbers) in proximity to the second largest port in the country operating at significantly higher levels of commercial vessels, commercial trawlers and recreational boats than these past two months. Common sense would suggest we'd have seen greater vessel strikes and even more whales washing ashore yet to my knowledge there were none.

What's at stake here is making this country more dependent on green energy from foreign owned wind farm syndications, causing potentially indeterminable and potentially irreversible environmental and economic damage to mammals, fish and crustaceans to states whose legacy and economies are founded on harvesting the oceans resources with truthfully no idea of the consequences, good or bad, of those decisions. What this country doesn't need right now on the heels of Covid is a politically motivated project which could cause unforeseen chaos to people already suffering from the past three years.

NASA doesn't launch missiles and hope they don't explode. They simulate everything to the last and most minute detail and then launch. Department of Energy and certain local politicians might be well served taking a page out of their playbook.

They should place a moratorium on testing, whatever timeframe is necessary, to better understand the causes of UME "unusual mortality event" and reassess the risks associated with ocean based development. As others have mentioned, if during the moratorium we see a decline in whale mortality, that alone would give a good indication of what's caused these deaths over the last two months. Or maybe they don't want that information being published. Anything else is gambling with as opposed to investing in this planet's health for future generations.

[Broad Bill]

Another attempt to twist the facts to justify the narrative the federal governments wants to redirect attention away from wind farm development and potential side effects of site exploration and seismic testing. And conveniently once again, it appears if there's any issue at hand regarding fisheries management, it's been agreed the smoking gun will always be climate change, even if as the other article I posted stated whales from the Gulf of Maine are actually moving south and winter in much warmer waters in the Caribbean.

Read the attached article for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

https://abc7ny.com/climate-change-dead-whale-beached-tri-state-area/12901186/

As of March 2023, no offshore wind-related construction activities have taken place in waters off the New Jersey coast, and DEP is aware of no credible evidence that offshore wind-related survey activities could cause whale mortality. While DEP has no reason to conclude that whale mortality is attributable to offshore wind-related activities, DEP will continue to monitor.

Instead, the DEP called attention to the increase in ocean temperatures due to "human-caused climate change caused primarily by the burning of fossil fuels," and the danger it poses for marine mammals.

So warmer temperatures in the summer doesn't pose a threat as no whale deaths were reported but much colder temperatures and significantly less boat traffic in the winter does. Isn't that the exact opposite of the theory climate change theorists are trying to argue?

Specifically, food sources for whales like menhaden, are forced to adapt to the rising temperatures by moving landward to a more favorable location. Whales follow their food source, and the closer to land they get, the more likely they are to come into conflict with human activities (ie. be hit by a vessel.)

I guess we're supposed to believe in the last few months there's been more bunker inshore than during the summer / fall months due to climate change. Bunker have a north / south migration pattern as opposed to an east / west and are rarely found inshore in our local waters this time of year when the whale deaths occurred. They're off North Carolina spawning this time of year, but that's conveniently left out of the article

No wind related construction took place but ocean mapping using seismic testing by the survey vessel Fugro Enterprise started on 12/5/22, commensurate with the general time frame whales started washing ashore.

We should all sleep well at night knowing the DEP will continue to monitor the situation in spite of Sean Hayes, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) chief of protected species warning about how wind farm construction, development and operations could be directly detrimental to whales and cause inherent risk with habitat changes and the displacement of their food supply.

[Exit135]

It's very telling that the other sides of this argument (corporate wind farms) have remained silent regarding these tragic marine mammal deaths. The reason is they have been through the federal N.E.P.A. process, public hearings have been held, written comments have been submitted and reviewed and they have received the N.E.P.A. Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI). The only remedy would be to bring a lawsuit against the responsible Federal agency for violation of the NEPA process. I haven't heard of any such lawsuit even being contemplated. Everything else is just static and rhetoric. Sad but true.

[hartattack]

The stranded dolphin found in Leonardo this week had me wondering if survey sounding boats were nearby,,, sure enough they were! ..... see attached.... Go Pursuit and Go Discovery were both in Raritan Bay this week, although Go Discovery turned off their AIS.

[Broad Bill]

For those who didn't see this article, interesting read. A glimpse of what the landscape of NJ, NY, Rhode Island and Massachusetts will look like in the not too distant future.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/changing-climate/offshore-wind-us/enjoy-the-view-while-it-lasts-jersey-shore-with-100s-of-wind-turbines-revealed/3274895/

Massachusetts currently has 2,192 Megawatts of capacity with a goal of increasing that to 5,600 MW's by 6/30/27. RI has 49.4 MW's with a goal of 100% renewable energy by 2033. NY has 2,192 MW's currently, all on shore, with a goal to add 9,000 in shore by 2035 and NJ, which has only 9 MW's currently, has a goal set by our Governor of 11,000 in shore by 2040.

Without the benefit of historical facts about the impacts to marine life seismic testing, development and operations will have on marine life along with in my opinion a very high risk these areas for national security will ultimately be restricted to fishing when we become dependent on renewable energy generation, the rules are going to change. No different than the restrictions put in place at Earle post 911. This is a bet the ranch proposition with potentially catastrophic and unquantifiable impacts to residents and businesses of coastal states not to mention the projected increase by 400% for the cost of energy passed on to the average American who today is barely able to keep up with current living costs.

[dales529]

Broad Bill
I am aligned with your concerns on whale deaths etc. Your posts are informative and well stated. I don't pretend to have answers and agree that what we don't know we may never know in full disclosure. Lets face it these OSWF / Inshore WF are going to proceed and with big oil heavily invested in NJ WF getting the proper narrative wont be easy. Honestly not sure where I stand on the subject yet as YES the Whale / Dolphin deaths are a huge concern not to mention speed law proposals and access to the areas. Wish it was just about the ocean and species protection but in todays age everything is political BS.

As far as fishing at wind farms John Skinner posts many at the block island WF. This is one. Also MD reports a huge increase in BSB biomass among other species at their WF. I had the article but have to find it again
https://youtu.be/i18Ak_U9gTI


As far as lack of studies done for WF see below: Granted not a lot about whales.
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/79/4/1274/6555702

https://tos.org/oceanography/article/offshore-wind-farm-artificial-reefs-affect-ecosystem-structure-and-functioning-a-synthesis

Some things being questioned:
https://6abc.com/offshore-wind-projects-project-new-jersey-wildwood-whale-deaths/12965269/

So just like you many are searching for answers!

[Broad Bill]

Broad Bill
I am aligned with your concerns on whale deaths etc. Your posts are informative and well stated. I don't pretend to have answers and agree that what we don't know we may never know in full disclosure. Lets face it these OSWF / Inshore WF are going to proceed and with big oil heavily invested in NJ WF getting the proper narrative wont be easy. Honestly not sure where I stand on the subject yet as YES the Whale / Dolphin deaths are a huge concern not to mention speed law proposals and access to the areas. Wish it was just about the ocean and species protection but in todays age everything is political BS.

As far as fishing at wind farms John Skinner posts many at the block island WF. This is one. Also MD reports a huge increase in BSB biomass among other species at their WF. I had the article but have to find it again
https://youtu.be/i18Ak_U9gTI


As far as lack of studies done for WF see below: Granted not a lot about whales.
https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/79/4/1274/6555702

https://tos.org/oceanography/article/offshore-wind-farm-artificial-reefs-affect-ecosystem-structure-and-functioning-a-synthesis

Some things being questioned:
https://6abc.com/offshore-wind-projects-project-new-jersey-wildwood-whale-deaths/12965269/

So just like you many are searching for answers!

I agree with your post. These projects aren't stopping and will in fact accelerate. Too much money invested and politics involved. The sample size of ocean based wind farms is so small today compared to where we're headed no one can really say what the full impacts will be until they happen. That's a scary thought. Hopefully those impacts don't bite everyone in the *#!. One of the biggest concerns is as the country grows more dependent on these renewable sources, the areas aren't eventually restricted by DHS, government or the investors. Chances of that happening are very real when you consider the boat traffic in the area and strategic importance of energy generation. And both short term and long term consequential impacts of testing, construction and operating these platforms won't be known for years. This is a bet the ranch proposition, like many I hope we don't lose the ranch as the economic and environmental impacts could be substantial.

As far as Skinners Block Island video, he's fishing near RI's inshore WF's producing 49 KW's. NY and NJ in the next 15 years are planning to construct enough ocean based farms to produce 20,000 KW's. That's a 40,000% increase over the capacity Block Island currently has, does anyone truly know the impact that many farms will have on marine life and the environment. Answer is no as the increase in production is unprecedented and untested. Using Block Island or Maryland as a basis of comparison of what to expect compared to the increased levels of wind farms and production we're looking at over the next two decades is not by any stretch of the imagination a fair or representative comparison.

Vessel speed restrictions, that's a whole different discussion. Forever they were never needed and the ocean's resources flourished? Why the need now? Smoke screen and proposed solutions addressing the wrong problems. Again no whale deaths this summer I'm aware of when bunker, commercial and recreational boat traffic and the whale population in this area were all at their seasonal peaks.

I respect your perspective, but we're dealing with something completely new and unprecedented on a scale never before seen. When the natural order of nature is disrupted, there's always going to be consequences and I believe what we've seen over the last two months in whales and porpoise deaths is just the beginning of a much larger problem and series of consequences. I hope I'm wrong but would not at all be surprised if I'm not.

[NoLimit]

“Lets face it these OSWF / Inshore WF are going to proceed “

Says who? Solar and wind require huge taxpayer subsidies and we are already drowning in debt. Texas and Germany jumped into it with both feet and it’s been a huge boondoggle. Germany is turning back to coal and gas. France is building nukes and in the US, huge amounts of gas will make for the lowest cost electric and heat. Nothing beats the economics of modern clean burning Cogen plants.

[Gumada]

8 dolphins beached themselves at Sea Isle City today. All 8 have died. Witness said they were frantic swimming back and forth, then went over the bar directly into the beach ! Survey was taking place just offshore for the OSW project. When is enough, enough ?

[NoLimit]

A commercial guy I know says the windmillers have 5 tugs on standby to tow dead whales offshore so they don’t beach and make the news. What happens when this deliberate placement of debris causes an accident?

[Broad Bill]

A commercial guy I know says the windmillers have 5 tugs on standby to tow dead whales offshore so they don’t beach and make the news. What happens when this deliberate placement of debris causes an accident?

If that could be confirmed, it would prove two things. First whale deaths have nothing to do with vessel strikes otherwise why would anyone have tugs discard the evidence and two NOAA, NMFS, BOEM and the Departments of Commerce and Energy are outright lying to the general public about the consequences and risks associated with wind farm development. Interesting you made this post as I heard the same thing with the exception that they're not actually just towing them out to sea, they're cutting them open to release the gas and sinking them. We live in a world with corrupt politicians and a $100 billion industry is going to win out. The consequences of all this, based on the scale we're talking about and no prior history to reference, is going to be substantial. And when all is said and done, instead of paying $100 a month to JCPL or PSEG, we'll be paying $500 a month for electric generated from wind farms.

[Wilson]

Man.... the line for necropsies must be very long and corrupt!

[Broad Bill]

Man.... the line for necropsies must be very long and corrupt!

The pain and suffering these beautiful mammals must be going through is tragic no matter how you view it. I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch the imagination but I believe science exists to provide data to make more accurate and correct decisions including wind farm development and seismic testing. We're essentially killing off a part of the ocean and politicians and Corporate America agreed are not just allowing it to happen, they appear to be causing it to happen.

People in this country deserve transparency regarding decisions being made by our government representative and we certainly deserve the truth. As discussed earlier, science isn't the problem. Government and their insistence and propensity of presenting / suppressing data in a manner that supports their narrative seems to be the world we live in today. The art of deception and a liberal media to carry their message has this world on the brink. Foreign relations or lack thereof with China, Russia and North Korea, a perceived and real weakness in foreign relations, complete loss of control over our southern border with Mexico, fentanyl flooding into our country from Mexico and China at record levels, terrorists and drug dealers flooding in at record levels, maxing out the the national debt ceiling and now the coming of the second financial crisis in 15 years with the recent failures of Silicon and Signature Bank as well as Credit Suisse will send shock waves through this economy and world economies over the next six months. Those three Banks and the reasons causing those failures, higher inflation and sustained Federal Reserve hikes, will impact many more banks before this situation plays itself out and the true impacts are felt. We live in precarious and very troubling times and I pray it's not too late to make the changes needed to get this country back on a right path. Sorry for the politics involved in this post, I personally believe the problems we're seeing with whale and porpoise deaths is the same systemic problem we're seeing with many other problems this country is currently faced with.

[Capt Sal]

The pain and suffering these beautiful mammals must be going through is tragic no matter how you view it. I'm not a tree hugger by any stretch the imagination but I believe science exists to provide data to make more accurate and correct decisions including wind farm development and seismic testing. We're essentially killing off a part of the ocean and politicians and Corporate America agreed are not just allowing it to happen, they appear to be causing it to happen.

People in this country deserve transparency regarding decisions being made by our government representative and we certainly deserve the truth. As discussed earlier, science isn't the problem. Government and their insistence and propensity of presenting / suppressing data in a manner that supports their narrative seems to be the world we live in today. The art of deception and a liberal media to carry their message has this world on the brink. Foreign relations or lack thereof with China, Russia and North Korea, a perceived and real weakness in foreign relations, complete loss of control over our southern border with Mexico, fentanyl flooding into our country from Mexico and China at record levels, terrorists and drug dealers flooding in at record levels, maxing out the the national debt ceiling and now the coming of the second financial crisis in 15 years with the recent failures of Silicon and Signature Bank as well as Credit Suisse will send shock waves through this economy and world economies over the next six months. Those three Banks and the reasons causing those failures, higher inflation and sustained Federal Reserve hikes, will impact many more banks before this situation plays itself out and the true impacts are felt. We live in precarious and very troubling times and I pray it's not too late to make the changes needed to get this country back on a right path. Sorry for the politics involved in this post, I personally believe the problems we're seeing with whale and porpoise deaths is the same systemic problem we're seeing with many other problems this country is currently faced with.

Other than that everything else is just great!

[dales529]

Great Thread but once again simply turned from some intelligent research links from both sides to politics depending on what tabloid or entertainment news you pick. If Media is really the enemy in a free society than its the people that got stupid!

Sorry cant get my head around with the high exposure that there are "tugs" waiting in the wings to tow or cut / gas whales on site at the WF locations or anywhere else. IF true than all pro wind , anti wind, media, politicians and save the whales groups need to rethink their directive and job description.

We live in a world of drones, planes, social media whistle blowers so very hard to believe this could happen without massive proof.

Bottom Line most reasonable people and there are many in this thread are just looking for the truth and some definitive answers to the impacts now and going forward which is very much a work in progress.

Having said that I agree with the lack of transparency to the general public on the mammal deaths. One article says 6 of the 8 dolphins were rescued and 2 died yet another says all 8 died? Granted does NOT explain why a pod of 8 were stranded in the first place!

As far as Texas ( largest WF in the USA), I was going to say in the Union but went with UNITED STATES as many have lost sight of that and seem willing to repeat the past.

Germany going to coal and France etc. Not many facts on these statements

[Gumada]

Great Thread but once again simply turned from some intelligent research links from both sides to politics depending on what tabloid or entertainment news you pick. If Media is really the enemy in a free society than its the people that got stupid!

Sorry cant get my head around with the high exposure that there are "tugs" waiting in the wings to tow or cut / gas whales on site at the WF locations or anywhere else. IF true than all pro wind , anti wind, media, politicians and save the whales groups need to rethink their directive and job description.

We live in a world of drones, planes, social media whistle blowers so very hard to believe this could happen without massive proof.

Bottom Line most reasonable people and there are many in this thread are just looking for the truth and some definitive answers to the impacts now and going forward which is very much a work in progress.

Having said that I agree with the lack of transparency to the general public on the mammal deaths. One article says 6 of the 8 dolphins were rescued and 2 died yet another says all 8 died? Granted does NOT explain why a pod of 8 were stranded in the first place!

As far as Texas ( largest WF in the USA), I was going to say in the Union but went with UNITED STATES as many have lost sight of that and seem willing to repeat the past.

Germany going to coal and France etc. Not many facts on these statements

FACTS FROM MMCS WHO ORCHESTRATED THE RESCUE...

UPDATE 3/21/23 at 3:20pm: The remaining six dolphins were assessed by our veterinarian and their conditions were rapidly deteriorating. The decision was made to humanely euthanize the dolphins to prevent further suffering, as returning them to the ocean would have only prolonged their inevitable death. All eight dolphins have been transported to the NJ State Lab for immediate necropsies. We share in the public's sorrow for these beautiful animals, and hope that the necropsies will help us understand the reason for their stranding.
The Marine Mammal Stranding Center staff and veterinarian is currently on scene responding to a mass stranding event in Sea Isle City. A pod of eight Common dolphins has stranded, two of which have died at the time of this post. MMSC staff is being assisted by the Sea Isle City Police, Fire, EMS and Public Works Departments. We ask that the public please give the team space to do their work. We will provide updates when we have more information available, and our team is back from the scene. Thank you.

[Broad Bill]

Wind farms are energy, energy is government, government is politics and all this in my opinion is bound by the recent string of mammal deaths in our area which 100% coincides with the timing of the seismic testing. Personally I don't know how you separate them.

I replied to No Limit's post saying it post was interesting because I heard the same thing with one exception, which I noted. I didn't say what I heard was confirmed but I found it interesting that someone else heard a similar story.

Based on your reply, you don't seem to think with today's technology that the government is capable of doing something so covert that it would actually be able to keep it from the American public.

You no doubt have heard of the Manhattan project. That project, even though it occurred years ago, employed 125,000 Americans to work on the creation of the first atomic bomb without any of them knowing exactly what they were working on or the American public having any knowledge of the existence of the project. The bomb was subsequently tested by detonation in New Mexico with most Americans still unaware of the atom bomb's existence or what caused the explosion. If that can happen, even if it were years ago, I don't think it's a stretch to believe the federal government involving a one hundred plus billion dollar wind farm project would have any problem towing whales offshore and even sinking them to avoid evidence and questions that could risk the future of that project.

If there was merit to what's been posted, and I'm not saying there is, all the federal government and Orsted would have to do is have the people involved sign a non-disclosure agreement and the public would never have a clue about what's taking place offshore.

[dales529]

Wind farms are energy, energy is government, government is politics and all this in my opinion is bound by the recent string of mammal deaths in our area which 100% coincides with the timing of the seismic testing. Personally I don't know how you separate them.

I replied to No Limit's post saying his post was interesting because I heard the same thing with one exception, which I noted. I didn't say what I heard was confirmed but I found it interesting that someone else heard a similar story.

Based on your reply, you don't seem to think with today's technology that the government is capable of doing something so covert that it would actually be able to keep it from the American public.

You no doubt have heard of the Manhattan project. That project, even though it occurred years ago, employed 125,000 Americans to work on the creation of the first atomic bomb without any of them knowing exactly what they were working on or the American public having any knowledge of the existence of the project. The bomb was subsequently tested by detonation in New Mexico with most Americans still unaware of the atom bomb's existence or what caused the explosion. If that can happen, even if it were years ago, I don't think it's a stretch to believe the federal government involving a one hundred plus billion dollar wind farm project would have any problem towing whales offshore and even sinking them to avoid evidence and questions that could risk the future of that project.

If there was merit to what's been posted, and I'm not saying there is, all the federal government and Orsted would have to do is have the people involved sign a non-disclosure agreement and the public would never have a clue about what's taking place offshore.

I am not lost on the fact that "they" could or would suppress whale or dolphin deaths to limit exposure to the public. Just saying in todays internet / technology era it would be awfully difficult to hide this type of activity.

During the Manhattan Project there were no cell phones, Facebook, drones etc and back then people used to mind their own business and wouldn't buck the system like today.

The mere fact that a commercial guy claims to know this is happening and No Limit along with yourself have heard this may be happening means someone already violated their NDA and /or leaked covert operations! Given that I would expect there is proof of it somewhere or again its just conjecture.
If I am wrong will readily admit it.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Not sure if you all have seen this chart from NOAA but it paints a pretty telling story...

[Broad Bill]

Not sure if you all have seen this chart from NOAA but it paints a pretty telling story...

When the lead scientist Sean Hayes and NOAA's Chief of Protected Species, as I previously posted the link to the article, sends a memo to BOEM (Bureau of Ocean Energy Management) and NOAA warning of the concerns and impacts seismic testing and wind farm development will have on mammals which appears to have been completely ignored, that plus the chart you posted should give a pretty good indication of some of the risks associated with the development of wind farms as well as governments intentions to move forward regardless of those consequences.

[Broad Bill]

The mere fact that a commercial guy claims to know this is happening and No Limit along with yourself have heard this may be happening means someone already violated their NDA and /or leaked covert operations! Given that I would expect there is proof of it somewhere or again its just conjecture.
If I am wrong will readily admit it.

Or maybe a commercial operator who didn't sign and isn't bound by an NDA witnessed this happening offshore. Or as you mentioned, maybe it's just a rumor and it never happened. All I'm saying is I heard the same rumor which I found interesting and I wouldn't put it past our government and the agencies governed with running this project from doing anything and everything to keep the public in the dark regarding consequences this project might be having on ocean resources and the marine environment. I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong, I just believe when there's 100 billion dollars at stake anything is possible.

[dales529]

Or maybe a commercial operator who didn't sign and isn't bound by an NDA witnessed this happening offshore. Or as you mentioned, maybe it's just a rumor and it never happened. All I'm saying is I heard the same rumor which I found interesting and I wouldn't put it past our government and the agencies governed with running this project from doing anything and everything to keep the public in the dark regarding consequences this project might be having on ocean resources and the marine environment. I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong, I just believe when there's 100 billion dollars at stake anything is possible.

Agreed and Hey we are not in conflict on this or enemies just looking for FACTS. IF the commercial operator NDA or NOT has real access to this information as witnessed to this happening offshore you don't think they would have taken a picture? I am as disgusted as you on the whale deaths but FACTS have to be in the mix and proof has to exist or its still a long thread of public opinion with nothing to back it up.

[Broad Bill]

I'm fully vested in fact based decisions. I think Sean Hayes memo to BOEM and NOAA is the most important fact on this thread and it's not conjecture. I think the timing of the vessel Fugro Enterprise conducting the seismic testing and the timing and location of the mammals that died are pretty compelling facts. If these deaths were from vessel strikes, we would've seen a lot more mammals washing ashore during the summer. To my knowledge, we didn't see one. At some point, along with data provided by science, common sense needs to be factored into the equation. The graph Gerry Zagorski just posted is also fact, very compelling and would appear to show a definite relationship between testing and mammal deaths. How long do the powers to be go before they admit that these are more than just random anomalies or coincidences and there is in fact problems with WF development on marine species. The problem we're going to find is there is no time frame and any adverse impacts from WF's will be deflected to other unsupported possibilities or blamed on consequences associated with climate change!

[shresearchdude]

Not sure if you all have seen this chart from NOAA but it paints a pretty telling story...



That's not a NOAA product. Just someone that made it indicating that they used those sources for the chart. :cool:
So it's not a USCG product either.

[Broad Bill]

This on the other hand is a NOAA product directly from their lead scientist and Chief of Protected Species Sean Hayes last May warning of the impacts wind farm operation and development would have on marine life along the East Coast.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-scientist-raised-alarm-offshore-wind-harming-whales-months-ago

The graph Gerry Zagorski posted, whether by NOAA or from data provided in part by NOAA, fits like a glove into the warnings Mr Hayes brought to the attention of BOEM and NOAA almost a year ago. Everyone has to draw their own conclusions but I believe strongly that what we've seen happen over the last 3 months is Mr Hayes's warnings becoming a reality. If so, what will the ultimate impacts be to the ocean ecosystems and species that inhabited them when there's a 40,000% increase in Ocean based WF electric generation just between NY and NJ.

[dales529]

That's not a NOAA product. Just someone that made it indicating that they used those sources for the chart. :cool:
So it's not a USCG product either.

But is it Factual?

[Gerry Zagorski]

But is it Factual?

Trying to get in touch with the person who put this chart together and if I do I will report back here....

[Gumada]

But is it Factual?

But where is the data rebutting ? All we hear is it isn’t the seismic blasting...there are no coincidences...

[dales529]

But where is the data rebutting ? All we hear is it isn’t the seismic blasting...there are no coincidences...

Gerry is looking into the validity of the chart. Nothing to rebut until we know more
While I agree that there are coincidences but those are NOT Facts, There are also conjecture / theories embedded in this thread that need to be sorted out for FACT. Just looking for truth and not political BS.
Also agree that these mammal deaths are unwarranted , disturbing and need answers .
FYI there is a difference between seismic blasting and sonar mapping.

[Broad Bill]

Dales for arguments sake, what facts would you expect to be made public that will indict the federal government and bring to surface the impacts seismic testing can have in WF development and associated effects WF operations could have on the ocean, mammals, all species in general and the ecosystem. And who would you expect to come forward with those facts? Any evidence that risks a project of this magnitude and the hundreds of billions of dollars at stake is going to be squashed. NOAA and any other scientific body can do all the necropsies they want but do you honestly believe if there's evidence that testing is killing these mammals, that information will be made public by NOAA, BOEM, NMFS, the Secretary of commerce or anybody in government at the federal and state level. The NOAA Chief of Protected Species and lead scientist Sean Heyes, their own guy, warned NOAA and BOEM of the consequences of seismic testing and WF operations and how did those warnings and advisories go?

The true value of science is completely negated if we allow parties of interest to throw out unsubstantiated alternate theories like vessel strikes as a means of deflecting blame away from the projects they're looking to protect and will financially benefit from. It's government's biggest weapon in their toolbox to arrive at a result they want, not a result that is necessarily in the best interest of the American people.

From reading your posts over the years, I'm guessing you've been doing this long enough to know exactly how the game is played. Government has a playbook, they're going to run with it, and any evidence that refutes that playbook is either going to be discredited, ignored or will never see the light of day.

[hammer4reel]

Dales for arguments sake, what facts would you expect to be made public that will indict the federal government and bring to surface the impacts seismic testing can have in WF development and associated effects WF operations could have on the ocean, mammals, all species in general and the ecosystem. And who would you expect to come forward with those facts? Any evidence that risks a project of this magnitude and the hundreds of billions of dollars at stake is going to be squashed. NOAA and any other scientific body can do all the necropsies they want but do you honestly believe if there's evidence that testing is killing these mammals, that information will be made public by NOAA, BOEM, NMFS, the Secretary of commerce or anybody in government at the federal and state level. The NOAA Chief of Protected Species and lead scientist Sean Heyes, their own guy, warned NOAA and BOEM of the consequences of seismic testing and WF operations and how did those warnings and advisories go?

The true value of science is completely negated if we allow parties of interest to throw out unsubstantiated alternate theories like vessel strikes as a means of deflecting blame away from the projects they're looking to protect and will financially benefit from. It's government's biggest weapon in their toolbox to arrive at a result they want, not a result that is necessarily in the best interest of the American people.

From reading your posts over the years, I'm guessing you've been doing this long enough to know exactly how the game is played. Government has a playbook, they're going to run with it, and any evidence that refutes that playbook is either going to be discredited, ignored or will never see the light of day.


Winner , winner , chicken dinner .

If there was absolute proof these stranding were caused by the testing , it will never be announced until 10 years after they are built .

The lies that are being told about how great a power source these will be is proof of that already .
.

Lots of EPA rules are being broken for these projects to get done.


.

[togzilla]

Dales for arguments sake, what facts would you expect to be made public that will indict the federal government and bring to surface the impacts seismic testing can have in WF development and associated effects WF operations could have on the ocean, mammals, all species in general and the ecosystem. And who would you expect to come forward with those facts? Any evidence that risks a project of this magnitude and the hundreds of billions of dollars at stake is going to be squashed. NOAA and any other scientific body can do all the necropsies they want but do you honestly believe if there's evidence that testing is killing these mammals, that information will be made public by NOAA, BOEM, NMFS, the Secretary of commerce or anybody in government at the federal and state level. The NOAA Chief of Protected Species and lead scientist Sean Heyes, their own guy, warned NOAA and BOEM of the consequences of seismic testing and WF operations and how did those warnings and advisories go?

The true value of science is completely negated if we allow parties of interest to throw out unsubstantiated alternate theories like vessel strikes as a means of deflecting blame away from the projects they're looking to protect and will financially benefit from. It's government's biggest weapon in their toolbox to arrive at a result they want, not a result that is necessarily in the best interest of the American people.

From reading your posts over the years, I'm guessing you've been doing this long enough to know exactly how the game is played. Government has a playbook, they're going to run with it, and any evidence that refutes that playbook is either going to be discredited, ignored or will never see the light of day.

BINGO!!!!! Give that man a cigar.
I've been working and studying economics in my career for 32+ years now and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that our govt. is corrupt and will manipulate data anyway they want to push their political agenda. The govt. thrives on the naivety of it's constituents. Speaking of which, I have not seen any posts from our "blind squirrel" in quite some time. Maybe he is now reading facts and using logic instead of listening to political propaganda.

[Ol Pedro]

I have not seen any posts from our "blind squirrel" in quite some time. Maybe he is now reading facts and using logic instead of listening to political propaganda.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully he's been out fishing.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry is looking into the validity of the chart. Nothing to rebut until we know more
While I agree that there are coincidences but those are NOT Facts, There are also conjecture / theories embedded in this thread that need to be sorted out for FACT. Just looking for truth and not political BS.
Also agree that these mammal deaths are unwarranted , disturbing and need answers .
FYI there is a difference between seismic blasting and sonar mapping.

Just spoke to Mike Dean who is the person who gathered the data and put the chart together.
- USCG Local Notices to Mariners where the ships listed were tallied over the period for Regions 1 and 5.
- NOAA Whale Deaths from their Humpback Unusual Mortality Event study and local press reports for the same period.

[Gumada]

Just spoke to Mike Dean who is the person who gathered the data and put the chart together.
- USCG Local Notices to Mariners where the ships listed were tallied over the period for Regions 1 and 5.
- NOAA Whale Deaths from their Humpback Unusual Mortality Event study and local press reports for the same period.

Thanks Gerry,

Sounds like some solid data, now where is any evidence that the blasting is not contributing to the cetaceans deaths.....”crickets”

[Gerry Zagorski]

Just for the record here and probably like most of you, I'm all in for clean renewable energy but it has to done responsibly both environmentally and economically.

I'm looking for answers rather than making this a party issue since nothing good comes of that and all it does is divide us.

I don't believe in coincidences and data is data, unless it can be disputed or the coincidences explained.

I don't think the people making decisions on either side of this issue should be the same people making or influencing the decisions if it benefits them financially or their political agenda.

I want the truth!

[2na]

Just another opinion but it's interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtJsGlokVK4

[NoLimit]

Just another opinion but it's interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtJsGlokVK4

Very true! Oil and gas is incredibly clean. Propane fork lifts can run all day inside a shop and there is zero smell or fumes. The same with natural gas. All this anti drilling and anti fracking information is documented to be paid for by the commies. The Russians don’t want the competition and the Chinese want it all for themselves, especially coal. They are building coal plants at a feverish pace meanwhile California wants people to stop using cars and electricity all together because they are that brain washed.

[Broad Bill]

WF testing and development have started and are not going to stop. Consequences of this new technology, to some degree, will only be fully known as we proceed. Impact on mammals were more quantifiable as carcasses washed ashore. What will be less obvious and quantifiable is the impact all this has on the environment, the ecosystem, spatial displacement of forage fish and predator species as well as the impact, if any, on larval and early stage development of every species, fish or crustaceans, in our local waters. The scale of the wind farms being put up over the next decade and a half is unprecedented and therefore the risks associated with the magnitude of that project can't be assessed. And any attempt to compare this to Rhode Island or anywhere else that has limited in water wind farms is the definition of comparing apples to oranges. If any aspect of this project has substantial impacts to larval and early stage development of all species sought after by recreational and commercial interests, the consequences could be absolutely devastating. And no one in my research is able to answer that question nor have any tests been conducted to my knowledge to determine what those consequences might be. Unfortunately regardless of all the back and forth on this thread, only time will determine exactly what affects this has on the ocean environment and the species that inhabit it. And those effects can range from benign to absolutely catastrophic and that's without any consideration given to the issues that would arise if these wind-farm areas are ever restricted to commercial and or recreational access at some later date.

We all want transparency as it relates to this project, we all want the truth about the benefits and risks along the way. But for those who think that's going to happen, in my opinion you're going to be very disappointed. This is one of those projects where when it starts, and based on the amount of money invested and the palms that have been greased, it's simply not going to stop.

[reason162]

Very true! Oil and gas is incredibly clean. Propane fork lifts can run all day inside a shop and there is zero smell or fumes. The same with natural gas. All this anti drilling and anti fracking information is documented to be paid for by the commies. The Russians don’t want the competition and the Chinese want it all for themselves, especially coal. They are building coal plants at a feverish pace meanwhile California wants people to stop using cars and electricity all together because they are that brain washed.

You've been breathing in the fumes haven't you?

I love it - this entire thread of crocodile tears over whales from people who don't "believe in" climate change, and here we have an exemplar of the good little foot soldier for Big Fossil Fuel. But sure - we're the ones brainwashed...lmfao.

[Ol Pedro]

You've been breathing in the fumes haven't you?

I love it - this entire thread of crocodile tears over whales from people who don't "believe in" climate change, and here we have an exemplar of the good little foot soldier for Big Fossil Fuel. But sure - we're the ones brainwashed...lmfao.
That's not what I see. People are just tired of being lied to by our goverment. We may never get the real facts on what killed these whales. The fix is in. This isn't so much about clean energy it's about MONEY!!! Two different sets of rules. One for the working person another for the rich/politicians. Stall the truth as long as you can and make that money. Deny,deny,deny. Make a 10kt restriction on boat travel to appease the uninformed public and use it as a smokescreen. Blame it on the boats.
I have always thought that Big Oil has had it's hand in clean energy. It seems that we the public will be the only ones that won't profit from this. Clean energy at a cost to us.
What about the electric cars that catch fire and can't be extinguished and the existing windmills that kill Eagles when they operate. Fix the problem before you proceed? No not our goverment. Basically give the company's that build these offshore monstrosities kill permits. Well someone knew that it will kill wildlife. Our commercial fishing sector has to adhere to rules to reduce /eliminate marine mammal/turtle/bird mortality why not these construction cos?
Well so much for this depressing government/media BS . I'm going fishing. Hope I see that Bald Eagle before he gets swatted out of the sky.

[Pennsy Guy]

That's not what I see. People are just tired of being lied to by our goverment. We may never get the real facts on what killed these whales. The fix is in. This isn't so much about clean energy it's about MONEY!!! Two different sets of rules. One for the working person another for the rich/politicians. Stall the truth as long as you can and make that money. Deny,deny,deny. Make a 10kt restriction on boat travel to appease the uninformed public and use it as a smokescreen. Blame it on the boats.
I have always thought that Big Oil has had it's hand in clean energy. It seems that we the public will be the only ones that won't profit from this. Clean energy at a cost to us.
What about the electric cars that catch fire and can't be extinguished and the existing windmills that kill Eagles when they operate. Fix the problem before you proceed? No not our goverment. Basically give the company's that build these offshore monstrosities kill permits. Well someone knew that it will kill wildlife. Our commercial fishing sector has to adhere to rules to reduce /eliminate marine mammal/turtle/bird mortality why not these construction cos?
Well so much for this depressing government/media BS . I'm going fishing. Hope I see that Bald Eagle before he gets swatted out of the sky.

Pete, I'm with you 1000%We will never get an honest gov't--Local, state or federal...What they want, they will get(money)!!!
We piss 'n moan, bitch and complain, point the finger BUT nothing changes for the good, only change is for the wallet...
To hell with it..."Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

When are we going tuna fishing???

[NoLimit]

You've been breathing in the fumes haven't you?

I love it - this entire thread of crocodile tears over whales from people who don't "believe in" climate change, and here we have an exemplar of the good little foot soldier for Big Fossil Fuel. But sure - we're the ones brainwashed...lmfao.

No fumes and neither am I drinking the klimate change koolaid. Anyone with manufacturing experience will tell you the only OSHA approved internal combustion machines for indoor use are propane vehicles...and propane is a form of natural gas which powers most of the generating plants in this area. Its super clean. And there is nothing fossil about oil and gas. There were never any dead dinosaurs 10,000 ft down in solid rock. Oil and gas form naturally in the earth and they are making more every day. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-energy/2011/09/14/abiotic-oil-a-theory-worth-exploring

[Broad Bill]

You've been breathing in the fumes haven't you?

I love it - this entire thread of crocodile tears over whales from people who don't "believe in" climate change, and here we have an exemplar of the good little foot soldier for Big Fossil Fuel. But sure - we're the ones brainwashed...lmfao.

I guess not making harassing or abusive posts only pertains to some. People have a right to post their opinions, and others have the right to challenge or present alternate perspectives. The site would be better served if those replies were done tastefully and not antagonistically.

I believe most people on this thread actually do believe in climate change. I think what most people don't believe is there's been any evidence provided or common sense to suggest these mammal deaths are climate change related. Otherwise, climate change must be seasonal as during the summer there were literally no local whale or dolphin deaths until early December precisely at the same time Fugro Enterprises started seismic testing for wind farm development.

Crocodile tears implies false emotion or insincere tears about these tragic mammal deaths. You're insulting the people on the thread who have genuine concern about what's happened these last few months and more so what might happen going forward.

You want to argue points, then argue points respectfully. Don't berate people because you disagree with their positions, be better than that.

[AndrewT]

You've been breathing in the fumes haven't you?

I love it - this entire thread of crocodile tears over whales from people who don't "believe in" climate change, and here we have an exemplar of the good little foot soldier for Big Fossil Fuel. But sure - we're the ones brainwashed...lmfao.

Have you switched from gas cars and stoves to electric yet? Also, I hope you don’t eat beef since cow farts are a major contributor to global warming as well. :rolleyes:

[Ol Pedro]

Pete, I'm with you 1000%We will never get an honest gov't--Local, state or federal...What they want, they will get(money)!!!
We piss 'n moan, bitch and complain, point the finger BUT nothing changes for the good, only change is for the wallet...
To hell with it..."Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

When are we going tuna fishing???

Going Crappie fishing in a couple of hours. Hope we are Tuna fishing by mid September.

[SanibelFisher]

I do not think this was posted in here anywhere. If you want a better idea of who is involved in offshore wind. Look at who is Exhibiting to get an idea of who is involved. Look at the speaker list.

This event is happening this week.

https://www.offshorewindus.org/2023ipf/

[hudsonfisherman]

I snipped this from a facebook thread so I cannot vouche for its accuracy but I figured if anyone knew if this really happened it would be someone here. The original poster on FB was Steve....

"Look up post from Jim Lovegren Pt Pl, he arrived late at Hudson Canyon couple of days ago only to see Whale suffering, Splashing its tail in agony, warning Others to Stay Away, as the Sounding Vessel started moving away from it in another direction. This Is Criminal! All for the Love of $$$!"

[Broad Bill]

It wasn't Jim, it was his brother Bill who was on board and took a video on his cell phone. In Jim's own words, what his brother saw was absolutely horrifying. Here's a link to the article. If I can get a copy of the video, I'll post it on the site if that's okay with the owner which will give an indication of where these whale deaths have come from and scratches the surface of the consequences associated with wind farm development and seismic testing. I would say this article and video constitute facts.

https://fisherynation.com/distressed-whale-spotted-near-offshore-wind-survey-vessel

Note, this didn't happen in the Hudson Canyon, it happened on Monday March 20th at 11:30 a.m. on the way to the Hudson Canyon in close proximity to the vessel Go Discovery conducting seismic testing. Based on a two and a half hour steam from the FV Holdfast out of Point who pushed off at 9:00 a.m., this probably occurred very close to the vicinity of the shipping lanes. Put the pieces together. Whale becomes disoriented, flounders and suffers on the surface apparently unable to dive, either dies outright from testing or gets hit by a tanker, washes ashore and our "unbiased" officials from NOAA report it as another vessel strike related whale death. So much for crocodile tears for dying whales and porpoise, these beautiful creatures are being tortured at sea without any regard for their safety but we need to make sure that vessel speed restrictions are put in place and wind farm development and testing at any cost continue. What a crock of s***! NOAA, DOC, DOE (including BOEM) and Orsted knew this was going to happen, saw it coming and created a smoke screen as a diversion.

[Broad Bill]

Another article worth reading.

https://www.eenews.net/articles/4-lawsuits-threaten-vineyard-wind/

We're in the process of watching "our oceans" being privatized for the benefit of government and a few conglomerates. I'm all for alternate energy for the right reasons but will never be in favor of any solution to any problem if the consequences haven't been fully explored and the associated risks outpace the problems these solutions are supposed to be addressing. And placing America's energy generation needs in the hands of foreign investment, as I've previously commented on, to me makes no sense whatsoever.

[Ol Pedro]

Where's Peta and Sea Shepard while this is going on?

[AndyS]

Reading about the sonar and its effects. 3 years on this ship and many many days at sea, we were "passive" listening 99.99% of the time. We only sent 1 (one) sonar ping from our underwater bow sonar dome that I can remember in 3 years. The one "PING" from our sonar dome was very very loud as I can remember, and I know it gave away our location also.

[Broad Bill]

Andy what we should all be concerned about is the unknown which appears is becoming more known. These projects are right in the middle of the migration path of whales and other mammals as well as all ocean crustaceans and fish that inhabit our local waters. What's being created is essentially an enormous underwater electrical field which no one truly knows the impacts of. As I mentioned, if the magnitude of this project and associated noises, vibrations, sound waves, electrical currents displaces stocks or worse negatively impact reproduction cycles even for a year, fishing as we've known it forever will change and could be permanently damaged. If so, the economic and environmental consequences would be substantial. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic here but we're dealing with something that's never been dealt with before. This is all about saving the planet and the environment and it appears we're putting $$$, politics, power and greed before that exact purpose once again.

[Broad Bill]

I have the full video of the whale referenced in the article but the file format isn't compatible to post on the site. Tragic to see a mammal thrashing about clearly in distress.

[AndrewT]

I have the full video of the whale referenced in the article but the file format isn't compatible to post on the site. Tragic to see a mammal thrashing about clearly in distress.

This video needs to be posted on Youtube, Facebook, anywhere and everywhere

[Pennsy Guy]

As I posted earlier, we can piss 'n moan, bitch, complain, point fingers, run in circles scream and shout BUT we, as ordinary humans, fisherpersons, able to see what is happening aren't going to, can't do a damn thing about it, to stop it, even with a vote. However, if you're an elected official in any capacity, you don't and won't vote to stop or investigate further. The god almighty dollar rules...Things in this country are happening, things I never thought or imagined would or could happen...Life sure has changed from the first half of my life, not too happy about it... I'm done.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Where's Peta and Sea Shepard while this is going on?

Apparently they are turning a blind eye to anything that might interfere with their green agenda. Sound familiar? Critical thinking seems to be dead in this country because both parties want it that way. If there is something that does not meet their agenda, nothing to see here move on.

Latest example is the IRS made an unexpected visit to the home of Matt Taibbi on the same day that he testified before Congress on the Twitter Files. Nothing to see here either, I'm sure this was a just a coincidence, right?

This is not a party issue since it happens on both sides of the isle. It's not about seeking the truth or what's right or wrong, it's about getting re elected so you can line your pockets. I got a taste of this not long ago on a local level when I was asked to interview for a Municipal Director of Business Development. The first fat cat I was interviewed by asked me what I thought my main priority would be in this job.

- I naively answered , it's looking for ways to attract more businesses so we have more employment opportunities and increase the business tax base so it reduces residential taxes.
- No he said, your job is to get so and so reelected
- Well I said, this is going to be a very short meeting and I got up and left.

We're all being played by both sides and the frightening thing is they are so bold about it, they do it in broad daylight. Why, because they can. They know as long as they are in power, there's not a damn thing we can do about it and many seem to be OK with these political tactics as long as their party or agenda is on the winning side of it.

Sorry for the long rant here but it's time they stopped dividing us and we take off the party blinders, work together not against, seek the truth and do what's right.

Term limits would be a good start. It might happen, yeah and monkey's might fly out my butt too :D

[Broad Bill]

Term limits would be a good start. It might happen, yeah and monkey's might fly out my butt too :D

I completely agree with everything you wrote. I'd actually pay for front row seats to see the last part of your post. The IRS does not make house calls, somebody at a higher level with either the DOJ or Executive Branch did.

No better example of the weaponization of our government and elected officials. They're not representing the people any longer, they're representing themselves and their own personal interests. Regardless of your politics, with the announcement about the indictment of Trump yesterday, there's going to be a revolution in this country and truthfully I'm not sure that isn't exactly what has to happen. The values and work ethics that built this Country have gotten lost with today's politicians and youth. Yesterday's news is going to light a powder keg, mark this post.

[dales529]

I completely agree with everything you wrote. I'd actually pay for front row seats to see the last part of your post. The IRS does not make house calls, somebody at a higher level with either the DOJ or Executive Branch did.

No better example of the weaponization of our government and elected officials. They're not representing the people any longer, they're representing themselves and their own personal interests. Regardless of your politics, with the announcement about the indictment of Trump yesterday, there's going to be a revolution in this country and truthfully I'm not sure that isn't exactly what has to happen. The values and work ethics that built this Country have gotten lost with today's politicians and youth. Yesterday's news is going to light a powder keg, mark this post.

BB
You had me for the most part in your caring about WF whale / porpoise deaths and marine stewardship on the overall effects. It made me do some research etc continually to leave an unbiased opinion on this subject politics be damned.
Your last post quoted sounds a whole different tune politically which I will address at the bottom of my post.

Back to WF and whales etc:
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/topic/offshore-wind-energy/protecting-marine-life

When you dig through this you will see right on their website on this link pretty much verbatim Dr Sean Hayes warning memo so there is some transparency as well as it wasn't ignored.
Offshore Wind Development's Potential Impacts
Scientists around the world are still investigating the potential impacts of offshore wind energy development on marine life. Site assessment, construction, and operations could interact with marine life on the seabed, in the water, and at the surface. For example, offshore wind energy projects could:
• Increase ocean noise, which could affect the behaviors of fish, whales, and other species
• Introduce electro-magnetic fields that impact navigation, predator detection, communication, and the ability for fish and shellfish to find mates
• Change existing habitats by altering local or regional hydrodynamics
• Create a “reef effect” where marine life cluster around the hard surfaces of wind developments
• Impact organism life cycle stages, including larval dispersal and spawning
• Change species composition, abundance, distribution, and survival rates
• Increase vessel traffic, which could lead to more vessel strikes
• Release contaminants that can be consumed or absorbed by marine life
Offshore wind is a new use of our marine waters, requiring substantial scientific and regulatory review. We are committed to careful review and use of the best available scientific information in satisfying the requirements of the Marine Mammal Protection Act for offshore wind energy projects.
Also you will find the many studies ongoing and done in the past on this. My fear is these latest OSWF in NJ are another guinea pig to get results so playing this out non partison for what it is or may be.

What I am looking at next (non politically) is the " Incidental Take Permits" (in the link above and below) as there are (2) Two options to apply for any construction in the waters we revere. I wonder and am still trying to get my hands on the ACTUAL Permit submission and what was granted to Orstead / Offshore Wind etc from NOAA as that would tell a tale of what they expected on these deaths during mapping and or construction. More to follow.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/permit/incidental-take-authorizations-under-marine-mammal-protection-act

Also looking into why Sonar Mapping / Seismic Blasting / testing was horrified by Marine Conservation but ignored totally by OIL Drill baby Drill Rig supporters back in the day.
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/seismic_blasting/#:~:text=Seismic%20Surveys%20for%20Oil&text=Seismic%20testing%20involves%20blasting%20the ,clock%20for%20years%20on%20end.

In any event these studies have been going on and continue going on but marine life seems to have adapted and even thrived on most offshore structure. All to be determined is why those involved cant simply say this is the initial harm / marine life deaths and what will come back in the future including access. Seems simple enough right LOL.

Now as far the old quote “ follow the money” while true if that was the case all politicans since the founding of this country from either party would be via hypocrosiy and criminal acts be held accountable but sadly not the case.

Now for your buddy Donald Trump and your statement of a “powder Keg” No matter where you stand politcally, business wise , tax wise some and granted few of his policies were OK. I believe he himself made this happen and at best is plain stupid or at worst the criminal he is.

White collar on this indictment for Fraud etc albeit the affair is not the big issue. What is the bigger issue is multiple counts of fraud, Jan 6th 2021inssurrection and voter fraud in GA which should have been and may still be his worst issue. Just like a whale struggling video you cant unsee what really happened on Jan 6th 2021and it was NOT a sightseeing tour or done by “ others”. All on him and he still carries on with the same BS. Our Founding fathers would have taken care of him quickly.

OH and yes the IRS does come to not only your house but anyone else’s who may be involved when they OWE.

[Broad Bill]

Interesting post. I stand behind everything I posted on wind farm development and believe that even though Sean Heyes memorandum may have been quoted on NOAA's website which it most likely had to, it certainly appears for the most part his warnings and concerns had very little impact if any on how this massive project is proceeding. It's much like some of the posts I've read on this site over the years where fisheries management is required to conduct public meetings to solicit public opinion yet they never factor those opinions and perspectives into final regulations. In my opinion, Sean Hayes's report was simply part of the process and never intended to influence how the powers to be we're planning to proceed and his warnings and concerns were noted but we're never addressed or acted on. The difference to answer your question about history and past perspectives versus what we're talking about today is the scale of this project. We're in the process of seeing a massive electro magnetic field being deployed in our oceans with no prior history of impacts and no scientist can truly say with any degree of certainty what the ramifications of that project are going to be. They might think they can but how can anyone be sure of the impacts of something that has never before been tried in our lifetime.

As far as your inference to "My Buddy Trump", I really have no desire to get into a political debate with you or anyone else on a fishing website. That said, please refer me to where my post said I supported Trump. What I actually said was politics aside, what happened yesterday with Trump's indictment is going to be a powder keg in this country and it will be. I was responding to Mr. Zagorski's post about his interview for the Municipal Business Development position and the fact that business development wasn't at all the focus of that interview as opposed to how to re-elect current officials.

My point about the Trump indictment was that Alvin Bragg, New York's DA, isn't using his position to serve the people of New York in the judicial role of a DA. He's using his position to target a specific political figure. It was actually part of his campaign commitment, to target Trump and his family while undermining the responsibilities of his office, his constituents and Democracy in the process. That's not acting in the capacity of a District Attorney, that's being a vigilante and it's not only happening at every level of our government today, it's happening at the highest levels including the Executive Branch, the FBI and the DOJ to mention a few. The lines between politics and justice in this country have become very blurred, there's a double standard and it should be a concern to every citizen of this Country.

If you honestly believe the IRS coincidentally made a house call to Matt Taibbi's home, again a response to Mr Zagorski's post, the day he was scheduled to testify before Congress about Twitter related matters exposing FBI and DOJ practices, let's just agree we have a completely different perspective about the role government plays today and how they carry out that role. Somewhere along the way, our elected officials began representing themselves and stopped representing the American people who put them in office. Our government is as corrupt today as it's ever been in American history and if you do the research it doesn't take a genius to realize that's a true statement. If you believe Trump is a criminal, you have to include probably a hundred other politicians and others into that same category including Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Nancy Pelosi, George Bush, George Soros, Fauci and many others from both parties who have all been involved in very questionable dealings. Again if you think our current leadership is doing a great job and has this Country moving in the right direction, I would again have to respectfully disagree with that position.

No more about politics, nobody on this board wants to hear what they already know.

[Broad Bill]

Back to the point of this thread, the impacts of wind farms. A few interesting articles from Harvard and MIT with a different perspective on the impacts wind farms might actually be having on increasing global warming, the counter opposite of it's intent.

https://www.americanexperiment.org/harvard-study-finds-wind-turbines-will-cause-more-warming-in-minnesota-than-emissions-reductions-would-avert/

https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/10/04/139905/wide-scale-us-wind-power-could-cause-significant-warming/amp/

[tautog]

Wind farms are also bird blenders. Areas near the North Sea wind farm off the UK have seen bird numbers plummet.