Terrible fluke season

[Togfather2530]

Out fishing today. Fishing mostly the sea girt reef area today. As of 12:39 we caught one short fluke and one keeper sea bass and mostly sea robins otherwise. This is the worst fluke season in my life that I have experienced. The reef isn’t even producing sea bass on drifts over great bottom. I’ve heard enough talk about the water temps etc. with the l fluke fishing being off. It’s mid July and we will be into August soon. The fluke aren’t there period. In my opinion the breeder killing regs have caught up with us like I predicted they would. We will see if things improve this afternoon.

[hammer4reel]

Out fishing today. Fishing mostly the sea girt reef area today. As of 12:39 we caught one short fluke and one keeper sea bass and mostly sea robins otherwise. This is the worst fluke season in my life that I have experienced. The reef isn’t even producing sea bass on drifts over great bottom. I’ve heard enough talk about the water temps etc. with the l fluke fishing being off. It’s mid July and we will be into August soon. The fluke aren’t there period. In my opinion the breeder killing regs have caught up with us like I predicted they would. We will see if things improve this afternoon.

Sea girt has been crazy tide specific .
Fish chewing in small windows .

Last Sunday we didn’t have a keeper from 630 till 1 .
From 1-4 it was lights out fishing , throwing back keepers looking for the slots .

.

[Togfather2530]

Good to know that at least someone I hear of had a good slot window of fishing

[laketrout]

I agree. It sucks for sure
However - The recreational quota has nothing to do with the fluke demise. Period! One commercial trip harvests more poundage of fish in a day than 50 party boats bring back! And let's not even think about the short bycatch that goes back dead and unaccounted for. As we suffer - there quota continues to increase.

[hammer4reel]

I agree. It sucks for sure
However - The recreational quota has nothing to do with the fluke demise. Period! One commercial trip harvests more poundage of fish in a day than 50 party boats bring back! And let's not even think about the short bycatch that goes back dead and unaccounted for. As we suffer - there quota continues to increase.

While it’s easy to think that it’s not correct .
.
Even with the increased harvest they got this year of 5000 pounds a week .
With their season quota the 165000 recreational fisherman (sw registry not including all those unregistered fishing on for hire boats .)
If each just caught 1 fish for the season they caught twice what a commercial boat does for the year .


Fisherman numbers add up poundage quick .
If all fished and took home just a few fish the poundage goes up exponentially.
.

.

[reason162]

While it’s easy to think that it’s not correct .
.
Even with the increased harvest they got this year of 5000 pounds a week .
With their season quota the 165000 recreational fisherman (sw registry not including all those unregistered fishing on for hire boats .)
If each just caught 1 fish for the season they caught twice what a commercial boat does for the year .


Fisherman numbers add up poundage quick .
If all fished and took home just a few fish the poundage goes up exponentially.
.

.

I'll say this, the amount of people I personally know and have witnessed take home their 2 slot fish this year almost every single trip - from shore/boat/kayak - is mind boggling. These are people who might average 1 keeper every 3 or 4 trips from past seasons, esp from shore.

It certainly adds up.

[Foul Hook]

Last Sunday weppl 1st didn’t have a keeper from 630 till 1 .
From 1-4 it was lights out fishing , throwing back keepers looking for the slots .

This. We fished late in the afternoon the other day and it was on fire right before dark. Guys on my dock had them good right at dawn also yesterday. Maybe really early and really late. 🤷

.[/QUOTE]

[Tackle guy]

June seemed ok.so far July is terrible not as many skates or robins either .are pirate draggers working after dark?.something is obviously wrong.

[togzilla]

I think years of higher size limits has helped taken its toll on the fluke population. He have been primarily taking all the breeding fish with an 18inch size limit not to mention the mortality on shorts as we all try and get are limit of 3 fish. Just think back 5-10, 15 years ago what the pool winners were on our local party boats. Most days the fish were 6-8 lbs. with an occasional double digit doormat. Now the pool winners are generally 3-5 lbs.
Just my opinion and probably worthless.

[Tackle guy]

Party boat Facebook pics this time last year were catching good this year especially considering new regs keepers way. Way. Less. Not a lot of short life either.

[Jigman13]

I been getting them really good in the back of the raritan bay so no complaints here.

[NoLimit]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;570557]While it’s easy to think that it’s not correct .
.
Even with the increased harvest they got this year of 5000 pounds a week .
With their season quota the 165000 recreational fisherman (sw registry not including all those unregistered fishing on for hire boats .)
If each just caught 1 fish for the season they caught twice what a commercial boat does for the year .


Fisherman numbers add up poundage quick .
If all fished and took home just a few fish the poundage goes up exponentially.
.

.[/QUOTE There is no way that NJ recreational are taking 5000 lbs a week.

[hammer4reel]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;570557]While it’s easy to think that it’s not correct .
.
Even with the increased harvest they got this year of 5000 pounds a week .
With their season quota the 165000 recreational fisherman (sw registry not including all those unregistered fishing on for hire boats .)
If each just caught 1 fish for the season they caught twice what a commercial boat does for the year .


Fisherman numbers add up poundage quick .
If all fished and took home just a few fish the poundage goes up exponentially.
.

.[/QUOTE There is no way that NJ recreational are taking 5000 lbs a week.

Your crazy , that’s 2500 small fluke .
There are 165000 registered salt water anglers , and that number doesn’t include possible as many as that that only fish for hire boats not needing the registry .

Let’s low ball it at 250000 total anglers .
That means only 1 out of every 100 anglers needs to catch a fluke .
I wouldn’t be afraid to bet our mortality exceeds 5000 pounds a week on throwbacks .

[Tackle guy]

Still hard to believe how scarce the fluke are. Esp. after good recent years seems they vanished overnight. Pirate draggers?

[hammer4reel]

I think years of higher size limits has helped taken its toll on the fluke population. He have been primarily taking all the breeding fish with an 18inch size limit not to mention the mortality on shorts as we all try and get are limit of 3 fish. Just think back 5-10, 15 years ago what the pool winners were on our local party boats. Most days the fish were 6-8 lbs. with an occasional double digit doormat. Now the pool winners are generally 3-5 lbs.
Just my opinion and probably worthless.


That’s all accurate .

Except many boats that fished big fluke areas aren’t making the run when they can only keep a handful of fish above the 18” size limit . It’s just not worth it with the price of fuel .


Bait is starting to show up more this past week , so we should see a better pull of fish .

Sadly the season will be over as the fishing is the best .

.having the ocean fluke season before the end of June is just a total loss of those days .
Seasons should be split statewide to give everyone a fair shot at the body of fish .

.

[Capt Sal]

With a one fish limit 28-38" on stripers for a few short years seems to have worked. Striper fishing has been very good. You would think it was a learning opportunity on how to manage Fluke. Talking with some old friends in Sewaren and they are doing ok in Raritan Bay but not making the run to the sticky stuff in the Ocean because of the gas prices. Almost 14 miles from Sewaren to the point of Sandy hook then another 6- to the Rocks or other structure. Forty miles to catch fluke? If you are out of Manasquan this would be a Bluefin trip???

[NoLimit]

[QUOTE=NoLimit;570604]

Your crazy , that’s 2500 small fluke .
There are 165000 registered salt water anglers , and that number doesn’t include possible as many as that that only fish for hire boats not needing the registry .

Let’s low ball it at 250000 total anglers .
That means only 1 out of every 100 anglers needs to catch a fluke .
I wouldn’t be afraid to bet our mortality exceeds 5000 pounds a week on throwbacks .

No way - just look at the Atlantic Highlands fleet. Its the largest in the state and you mean to tell me that they are taking even 2000 or 1000 lbs of fluke a week? That is utterly impossible. And I was out last week. From Sandy Hook Bay to Breezy Point, there were perhaps 10 private boats fluking. So dont even go there with "Its the recreational fault"

[Tackle guy]

Party boat fluking was ok in June so far July is a disaster.i go few times a week.heard all the excuses water temp. Moon groundswell wind..all nonsense .the fish ain't there. Captains doing their best but it ain't happening

[Jigman13]

Seems like they're stacked in the back and in shallow water where the massive shoals of peanuts are pouring out. Catching 18"+ isn't the problem this year. It's finding them 17 to 17.999" where I'm fishing.

[Brewlugger]

Seems like they're stacked in the back and in shallow water where the massive shoals of peanuts are pouring out. Catching 18"+ isn't the problem this year. It's finding them 17 to 17.999" where I'm fishing.

Been the same for us down south, alot of 19 to 22 inch fish in 3 to 7 foot in the back.

[Jigman13]

Been the same for us down south, alot of 19 to 22 inch fish in 3 to 7 foot in the back.

I dropped one last week that was an easy 24" in about 4-5' of water. Spit the hook and just slowly sunk back down to the bottom. I was fine with it as I already had my 18"+, but woulda been a nice picture and release--an a PB from from shore...

[Tombro]

This fluke season has been absolutely abysmal. I’m a retiree and private boater who is out a lot. From SRI. I see the rental fleet catching fish constantly. Same for a friend who fishes the Navesink in his boat.
Ocean fluking is stinko! I think maybe I’m going to go old school, and drift live killies along the beach instead of fishing rocky bottom in 60 foot. Hmmm…

[Brewlugger]

Its been different for us this year, even in the back areas that always produced have been very slow and we have been finding isolated pockets of fish in areas where they have been more spread out in the past. Not sure whats going on this year?

[Rocky]

I am posting this for a friend and I totally agree with him100%!


This fishery has been declining for more than a decade. Reason is obvious, recruitment is down. And recruitment is down for two reasons, regulations have the commercial sector today harvesting the breeding stock during the spawn impacting the efficiency of the spawn. Number of surviving recruits compared to the spawning stock biomass , a relative measurement, has declined over the last two decades by 80%. For example, if the spawning stock was 2,000 metric tons and recruitment when we were harvesting immature age groups was 2,000 new fish added to the stock, today it's 400 new fish. Add to that the spawning stock over the last decade, both males and females, has declined by over 60 million fish because the regulations have both sectors targeting larger mature age groups. And in the pursuit of larger age groups by the commercial sector and required harvest of larger age groups by the recreational sector, waste through discard mortality has reached epic levels. Now add to that the fishery is said to lose 25% from natural mortality on top of all that. Now someone please explain to me how this fishery survives.

We lost the southern Chesapeake stock some time ago and are now witnessing the loss of the Mid-Atlantic "MA" biomass which is where almost 80% of the commercial quota comes from, right in our backyard. Commercial operators are saying the stock is moving further north and northeast. My opinion is as the regulations continue to destroy the local "MA" biomass in our backyard, commercial operators are being forced to steam further to fill quotas and fishing a different biomass which is the Southern New England / Gulf of Maine biomass. Last biomass for fluke. Expansion, in my opinion no. Just a body of fish until now which has had less commercial pressure because of the biomass locally. As that biomass becomes the focus of commercial harvest, it will officially mark the beginning of the end of this fishery.

Are there fish in the bays and shallows due to water temperatures colder in the ocean? Absolutely. If they were there in the numbers they should be, every party, charter and private boat would be fishing the bays and reporting limit catches every day. Look at the reports, they're dismal at best.

One thing and one thing only at this stage because of complete inaction and unwillingness to read the data correctly by NMFS saves this fishery. Close the fishery to commercial harvest during the spawn to maximize recruitment which the data suggests would increase by 200% - 400%. So instead of 30 million new recruits a year, maybe we're looking at closer to 80 - 100 million.

Anything short of that, we're all looking at another dying fishery due to complete incompetence by management.

[hammer4reel]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;570610]

No way - just look at the Atlantic Highlands fleet. Its the largest in the state and you mean to tell me that they are taking even 2000 or 1000 lbs of fluke a week? That is utterly impossible. And I was out last week. From Sandy Hook Bay to Breezy Point, there were perhaps 10 private boats fluking. So dont even go there with "Its the recreational fault"

I did not say it’s the recreational guys fault .
But UFS you think we don’t gave an impact you must fish around a lot of unsuccessful fisherman .
Numbers are numbers . With. A quarter million Nj based salt water anglers it doesn’t take each angler keeping one fish each to get incredible numbers .

If each angler only caught one keeper all season that’s a half a million pounds .
Sure some guys might only catch a few keepers a season , but then there are guys who will catch 75 keepers or more for the season .

.


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[Tackle guy]

Party boats are not catching this year .daily pictures show 10 to 20 keepers per day.most customers catch no keepers.some of us still enjoy a day on the water but hard to justify money spent for others.hope August is better.

[Togfather2530]

Well as the starter of this thread, I finally have a chance to get on the Internet and catch up with it. Thanks for all your opinions and replies. My opinion is that recreational people certainly do have a drastic impact on the fish harvest as well as commercials. A lot of recreational fisherman are in the dark when they say that a guy with a rod and reel will never have an impact on the fishery. That’s bullshit. I know a lot of the party boats and for higher boats want looser regulations and want to keep more fish. That’s not always the answer just to keep everyone in business. The only thing I know is in my opinion we can’t keep all these breeders. Recreational and commercial fisheries both have a drastic impact as far as I’m concerned the fishery has gone down every year in the last 10 years 👎👎👎

[FishingSinceIWasThree]

I have not fished this year because the economy is so terrible I can't get away from working but I have visited the docks and the fluke fishing looks pretty good from what I saw. Maybe they are not at the spots you are fishing.

And I worked on the party boats for many, many years - 10 to 20 keepers is a pretty decent day for the past 50 years or so. Not saying it can't be better but I've worked on MANY MANY days with less keepers.

By the way, the regulations were put in place to steal the waterfront property from the old fishing stations and others who didn't have the fake money that the elitists do. Don't tell me that those huge, sickenly ostentatious, mega-fake bucks homes on the water don't destroy the environment with all of the garbage they dump straight into the bays. They are responsible for fish nursery destruction. These people should be regulated. They should give their homes back to the environment. I guess those gas guzzling yachts they got from China payola help the environment? All the Clorox being dumped into the bay to keep their boats spotless in a show of arrogance and ill will to their neighbors and environment.

[Capt Sal]

Well as the starter of this thread, I finally have a chance to get on the Internet and catch up with it. Thanks for all your opinions and replies. My opinion is that recreational people certainly do have a drastic impact on the fish harvest as well as commercials. A lot of recreational fisherman are in the dark when they say that a guy with a rod and reel will never have an impact on the fishery. That’s bullshit. I know a lot of the party boats and for higher boats want looser regulations and want to keep more fish. That’s not always the answer just to keep everyone in business. The only thing I know is in my opinion we can’t keep all these breeders. Recreational and commercial fisheries both have a drastic impact as far as I’m concerned the fishery has gone down every year in the last 10 years 👎👎👎

So PB and Charter Boats are the bad guys? Of course they want to stay in business doesn't everyone? I suggest you do more home work. Another thing is if you can't catch fish maybe you need to learn from some of the guys that can.

[Capt. Debbie]

I agree.

This year has been BETTER than the last five for me and what I have seen in the Sandy Hook area. Not sure about elsewhere.

But spots do move

[Jigman13]

I agree.

This year has been BETTER than the last five for me and what I have seen in the Sandy Hook area. Not sure about elsewhere.

But spots do move

I was gonna say, sounds like some guys just have to try different spots. I've had a great season so far in the back bay.

[Rocky]

A friend sent me this and I think it is more good info to ponder about our fluke fishery.
I'd like it to say:

For those who think there's no correlation to attacking the breeding stock and the health of this fishery, please give the following some thought. In fresh water, many species are closed to fishing or catch and release only like walleye during their spawn. Imagine if smallmouth and largemouth bass were allowed to be taken while on their beds, how long do you think those fisheries would last before collapsing?. They'd collapse without significant stocking programs in a matter of years. Saltwater unfortunately doesn't have stocking programs and sustainability depends 100% on natural reproduction. Look at the results of this week's Elk's Club tournament in the following link.

https://www.pointpleasantelks.org/fluke.html

7.5 lbs wins and 5.5 took last place money in seventh. Now go back and look at prior year results before size minimums recreationally got completely out of control and commercial harvest focused exclusively on larger breeders. There's quite a few years where the 7th place fish is bigger than this year's winner. A decade ago, it was unusual for a winning fish in any tournament to be under the DD mark. Every year tournament winners, not just the Elk's, are getting smaller and smaller. The larger females which produce 10 times more eggs are being removed from the stock and the practice of targeting breeders during the spawn by commercial operators is the equivalent of allowing recreational anglers to retain the large breeders during their spawn in freshwater fisheries which most states disallow. 60 million less mature breeders in a short seven year period of time in the summer flounder stock and an 80% decrease in the number of surviving recruits since breeders were targeted is catastrophic to put it mildly. This is not about how many fish are being retained, for the most part, it's about the age classes being targeted and retained and the carnage caused to the younger age classes in the process of harvesting the older ones. End of story. Change the regulations to address the problems or the regulations will continue and accelerate those problems challenging the future of this stock. .

[FishingSinceIWasThree]

Talk about TERRIBLE regulations....3 snappers? Can't even feed your cat with that.

[dales529]

PP Elks history from 2006 to 2022:
Mix bag from DD to 7.5lbs for winners. Only 5 years in the last 16 did a DD win and regs have sucked throughout.
https://www.pointpleasantelks.org/fluke.html

Some big fish across the board, some smaller fish top to bottom, so tell me what that means?
Conditions conditions conditions!

Dont get me wrong here as I agree that targeting breeders is NOT the way to go but when you look at the history of this tourney you needed a DD or you could win with a 7.5.