2022 Final Summer Flounder and Seabass Regulations

[Gerry Zagorski]

Summer Flounder is 2 fish between 17 and 17.99 and 1 fish 18 and over 5/2 - 9/27

Seabass 13 inches all season long
- 10 fish 5/17 - 6/19
- 2 fish 7/1- 8/31
- 10 fish 10/7 - 10/26
- 15 fish 11/1 - 12/31

[TwoDDs]

Is the fluke opener 5/22 or 5/2 as previously noted in your prior post?
Thanks.

[frugalfisherman]

At least they picked the seabass one that made sense.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Is the fluke opener 5/22 or 5/2 as previously noted in your prior post?
Thanks.

Thanks for picking that up DD, corrected to 5/2

[pectoralfin]

Is that the final rule? Two fish between 17 and 18 inches and one over 18?
I guess it will increase the mortality that everyone is worried about.
It's going from a bad is situation to a worse one. They're slowly forcing us out.
As a aside, why is it we never hear about the mortality rate for the commercial sector? I would guess it would be near 90 percent.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Here are my thoughts on Fluke, take them for what they're worth and as one person's opinion.

I think in the data and in part, Dakota's analysis steered the committee and council towards lowering the size limits and getting a slot option on the table. As you may have also heard on the call and on this site, a slot has been talked about for many years but never possible before since it was not allowed in the framework of the management system for Fluke. That and somehow we got a 16% liberalization (which I still can't believe) so we had a bit more wiggle room without having to give up days and still meet our conservation equivalency. That's the good news...

The bad news is some got what they wanted and others did not. While my personal preference because of where, how and when I fish was option 3, which gave us a wider slot range, albeit a shorter season but more days than last year and my 2nd preference would have been option 1.

The process was a lot more complicated this year than it had been in the past and there was no time allotted for written public comment without delaying the timing of setting the regs. That was a disappointment, not sure it would have changed anything but it might have steered the council towards what the majority of people wanted but here again some wouldn't have got what they wanted.

I have to say I got quite an education this year thanks to Adam Nowalsky from the ASMFC and Peter Clarke our marine biologist for the state. We also got involved way earlier in the process than in years past and that is a must. If all you do is get involved when the state is deciding which option to pick, you have no way to influence the options.

Lastly, I appreciate you all getting involved and voicing your opinions on the action items we posted here and speaking up at the meetings, even though they might disagree with mine. The bigger picture and what I want most for all of us, is for people to get educated and involved and fight for what they want while protecting the fishery. The process certainly is not perfect but we'll continue to pick away and fight our way through it.

Lead, Follow or Get out of the way!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Is that the final rule? Two fish between 17 and 18 inches and one over 18?
I guess it will increase the mortality that everyone is worried about.
It's going from a bad is situation to a worse one. They're slowly forcing us out.
As a aside, why is it we never hear about the mortality rate for the commercial sector? I would guess it would be near 90 percent.

I don't agree we went from bad to worse... We did get more days of fishing than last year and at the same time, we made a step in the right direction by lowering the size limits which I think most agree is the right direction for the stocks. Do I like the option that was chosen, no I have my own preference based on when, where and how I fish...

As far as the commercial, not within the states control but I would bet you a dollar that it's taken into consideration. People complain about them taking 14 inch fish which is way lower than our regs but if you put it at say 18 or 19, they'd be discarding dead 14 -18 or 19 inch fish to fill their quota and wasting the resource by discarding them. The other things is they are way more closely monitored than us and when their quota is met they get shut down. In contrast we rely on MRIP to calculate our assumed landings, which as we all know is a total crap shoot...

Having said all this I do think we need to get the commercial season changed to protect the fish offshore while they are spawning but that's another conversation.

[frugalfisherman]

Here are my thoughts on Fluke, take them for what they're worth and as one person's opinion.

I think in the data and in part, Dakota's analysis steered the committee and council towards lowering the size limits and getting a slot option on the table. As you may have also heard on the call and on this site, a slot has been talked about for many years but never possible before since it was not allowed in the framework of the management system for Fluke. That and somehow we got a 16% liberalization (which I still can't believe) so we had a bit more wiggle room without having to give up days and still meet our conservation equivalency. That's the good news...

The bad news is some got what they wanted and others did not. While my personal preference because of where, how and when I fish was option 3, which gave us a wider slot range, albeit a shorter season but more days than last year and my 2nd preference would have been option 1.

The process was a lot more complicated this year than it had been in the past and there was no time allotted for written public comment without delaying the timing of setting the regs. That was a disappointment, not sure it would have changed anything but it might have steered the council towards what the majority of people wanted but here again some wouldn't have got what they wanted.

I have to say I got quite an education this year thanks to Adam Nowalsky from the ASMFC and Peter Clarke our marine biologist for the state. We also got involved way earlier in the process than in years past and that is a must. If all you do is get involved when the state is deciding which option to pick, you have no way to influence the options.

Lastly, I appreciate you all getting involved and voicing your opinions on the action items we posted here and speaking up at the meetings, even though they might disagree with mine. The bigger picture and what I want most for all of us, is for people to get educated and involved and fight for what they want while protecting the fishery. The process certainly is not perfect but we'll continue to pick away and fight our way through it.

Lead, Follow or Get out of the way!

Gerry are you Kamala Harris's speech writer on the side?

[Rocky]

These new regs will not help the future of the fishery plain and simple.

If you believe they will you are obviously clueless or are on the short term benefit bus towards this fisheries demise!

[tautog]

17"-17.99" fish are still overwhelmingly female so that doesn't really help the fishery. Also most fishermen suck at measuring so the 1" slot will be a ticket bonanza. Then they will say we overfished and will give us 3 fish at 19" with a short season next year. Luckily I care as much about this limit as the speed limit on the Parkway.

[pectoralfin]

If I catch a 19" fish and then a 22" fish which one do I throw back?
And I wonder how many fish has to be caught to get the slot limit?
I admittedly am not as knowledgeable about this situation as others on this site, but I see the mortality increasing which you know will be held against us in the future.

[frugalfisherman]

If I catch a 19" fish and then a 22" fish which one do I throw back?
And I wonder how many fish has to be caught to get the slot limit?
I admittedly am not as knowledgeable about this situation as others on this site, but I see the mortality increasing which you know will be held against us in the future.

Keep them both.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry are you Kamala Harris's speech writer on the side?


I resent that remark, I'm not Kamala fan and don't lean her way... You sir seem to have an opinion on things here but were you involved at all trying to get what you wanted? Did you speak up for the option you favored on the call or did you think someone else would ?? I didn't hear you if you did....

If you didn’t then that’s your bad, not mine and I have no patience for people who won't and don't stand up for themselves other than jumping on here and flexing their keyboard muscles.

If I've misjudged you I apologize, if I didn't you got exactly what you deserved, an option you didn't like and complaining about it here doesn't do squat.

If you decide to respond here please lets us all know what you did to help your own cause.

[reason162]

I resent that remark, I'm not Kamala fan and don't lean her way...

You should resent the fact that this guy, since I've joined the forum, openly calls for people to poach and is proud of it.

[Gerry Zagorski]

If I catch a 19" fish and then a 22" fish which one do I throw back?
And I wonder how many fish has to be caught to get the slot limit?
I admittedly am not as knowledgeable about this situation as others on this site, but I see the mortality increasing which you know will be held against us in the future.

Mortality rates are assumptions in a table somewhere and if you want to question them that's a different discussion. Those assumptions are not at the state level, they are at the federal and BTW I don't agree with those assumptions either.

Right now this whole system and how we set our regulations, at least on the recreational side is based on prior year MRIP and there is an assumption on mortality for throw backs. The stock status does not figure into this which is my mind is totally crazy...

Look at Seabass, a fishery that has been totally rebuilt for many years and we got a 20%reduction. At the same time we have Fluke which has not been rebuilt but because of MRIP data we got a 16% liberalization??

This is why I support recreational reform conversations going on right now.... It's the stock status and not unreliable assumptions like MRIP which should govern our regulations. We might as well be spinning a roulette wheel to decide what our regs need to be...

This is IMHO is what needs to change and this does not happen on a state level, it happens and is tying to happen at a federal level and change the way the feds manage our fishery.

We seem to always seem to want to react and treat the symptoms which show up once a year a state level... What we need to do is treat the cause, which is changing how our fisheries are managed and get involved on a federal level.

Sorry for the long post and this is not directed at you... It's a general statement and my opinion of how and where we need to focus our attention to really change things. This is a federal, not a state issue.

[Gerry Zagorski]

You should resent the fact that this clown, since I've joined the forum, openly calls for people to poach and is proud of it.

Thanks for trying to have my back but name calling is a foul here as it should be so you might want to revise your post. You and me have not agreed on things in the past just like me and Frugal. Frugal calling me Kamala or you calling Frugal a clown is not how I want to run things around here. Lets try and keep things civil…

[reason162]

Thanks for trying to have my back but name calling is a foul here as it should be so you might want to revise your post. You and me have not agreed on things in the past just like me and Frugal. Frugal calling me Kamala or you calling Frugal a clown is not how I want to run things around here. Lets try and keep things civil…

Point taken, though if you ask me someone who advocates breaking the law in post after post is a much darker stain on this forum.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Point taken, though if you ask me someone who advocates breaking the law in post after post is a much darker stain on this forum.

Thanks but people are entitled to their opinions here but where I tend to draw the line is name calling.

Enough said and lets move on, agreed?

[frugalfisherman]

Was wondering how much trolling I had to do to get a response. Since I don't know anything about doing any webinars the only thing I could do is go on this site and try to get others not to screw things up. Didn't work out. Sorry you didn't get my joke Gerry. Didn't mean to offend you. Harris is known for "word salad" a lot of words and not much said. Your statement I referred to was just that. The only thing I got out of it was you blamed this fiasco on Dakota (no wonder we haven't heard from him). Sort of like high fuel prices are Putins fault. So I said are you a speech writer for Kamala Harris on the side. Get it. Don't worry about anyone insulting me. I'm used to it. That word poacher has such negative connotations. Let's use enhanced retention. It is our only means of protest.