500 wind turbines off NJ/NY??

[bulletbob]

Not sure I read this correctly, but it seems to say 6 large lease sites, w/500 turbines in the NY Bight??.. A dozen towers or so, I had no problem with, but really-500?? Seems like a tiny bit too much of a "good thing"... bob

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/waters-hot-u-auction-opens-161524772.html

[Fishguy1]

That's 500 new fishing spots.

[dakota560]

That's 500 new fishing spots.

Or the contrarian view is that's 500 more off limit fishing spots when another 911 occurs. Just look at what happened to fishing Earle Ammunition Pier in RB after 911. Not against green energy, just saying it comes with a cost and be careful what you ask for. Homeland security isn't going to prioritize good fishing structure over national security. If there's a sniff of terrorist threat, these locations will be off limits indefinitely in the blink of an eye.

[Ol Pedro]

That's 500 new fishing spots.

Until some knucklehead damages, defaces, or steals from one. Just give the leaseholders an excuse to take away access. I hate to say this but I have a bad feeling that sport and commercial fishing interests are going to get bounced out of the leased areas shortly after the projects are finished.

[dfish28]

At least those areas can’t be dragged, but many updates to hazards of navigation will have to be added, I’m sure the electronics guys are loving this possible opportunity to add an update, I’m sure it will be free though- 🤔

[AndyS]

Relax, it's union workers, will take 30 years to complete, maybe 20 if you are lucky.

[Capt. Debbie]

I checked with a former PSE&G co-worker for deets.

There will be three sites off the NJ eastern coast. All within the NJ 3 mile territorial limits- so you will be looking at these ugly f*ckers while laying on the beach.

They are going to have a voltage step-up station with each of the three locations.

The customer electrical costs of these units over time is about 5x what we are paying now. So when its windy in the winter months and you DONT need electricity your stuck with your utility buying it. And on the summer doldrum days with AC blasting- it's totally useless with no wind. And it can not be stored for later use..

Besides the new fishing restricted areas will be be screwed back home too.

Go to hell... aka Welcome to NJ!

[acabtp]

I checked with a former PSE&G co-worker for deets.

There will be three sites off the NJ eastern coast. All within the NJ 3 mile territorial limits- so you will be looking at these ugly f*ckers while laying on the beach.

not sure what the former co-worker was talking about, but all the sites up for auction are much farther offshore than that, way outside NJ waters.
https://www.boem.gov/renewable-energy/state-activities/new-york-bight
https://www.njfishing.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=156031&stc=1&d=1645732897
https://www.njfishing.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=156032&stc=1&d=1645733134

[hammer4reel]

Until some knucklehead damages, defaces, or steals from one. Just give the leaseholders an excuse to take away access. I hate to say this but I have a bad feeling that sport and commercial fishing interests are going to get bounced out of the leased areas shortly after the projects are finished.

Won’t even get to fish it while under construction , they were given a 5 year non access while they build .
.
They have been discussing this for YEARS already ,
Not sure how guys think this is new

[reelfitter]

Relax, it's union workers, will take 30 years to complete, maybe 20 if you are lucky.

Really? You sir, are obviously very ignorant! I usually don't say much but, i have to comment on this one.
Coming from a Building trades family, I have always had the finances and solid foundation to raise a family with good healthcare and put my kids through college without student loans. All because of a "Union" background. I have worked my ass off and spent numerous hours in training classes to better myself and keep up with the new technology.
I challenge you to spend a day in the trenches with me. I can guarantee by the end of the day, You'll have a different opinion of me. "the union guy"
Unreal!

[Ol Pedro]

Really? You sir, are obviously very ignorant! I usually don't say much but, i have to comment on this one.
Coming from a Building trades family, I have always had the finances and solid foundation to raise a family with good healthcare and put my kids through college without student loans. All because of a "Union" background. I have worked my ass off and spent numerous hours in training classes to better myself and keep up with the new technology.
I challenge you to spend a day in the trenches with me. I can guarantee by the end of the day, You'll have a different opinion of me. "the union guy"
Unreal!
Reelfitter, I think that he was being sarcastic. That being said, I feel that it depends what Union you belong to.

[hammer4reel]

Relax, it's union workers, will take 30 years to complete, maybe 20 if you are lucky.

Actually they are letting companies from outside the United States do the job .
Most has been allotted towards a company from Denmark (Orsted).
.
You def have no clue how effective the trade unions in NJ build today .
The trade unions have drastically changed since the mid 80’s .
Non union couldnt even come close to manning large scale jobs with SKILLED workers .

On jobs that are split , the union side is always waiting for the non union side to catch up .
While they have access to some talented people they can’t fill jobs with enough manpower to compete .
.

..

[Gerry Zagorski]

Here’s an RFA release on this subject https://joinrfa.org/bidding-tops-2-billion-in-new-york-bight-wind-lease-sale/

[dakota560]

Recent article in APP.

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/land-environment/2022/01/13/new-jersey-wind-farms-feds-lease-new-atlantic-areas-february/9185403002/

Don't think plans for more farms will be slowing down anytime soon so accept the inevitable and pray for the best.

[Jigman13]

The resources and energy used to build these wind farms will exceed more than theyll create. Net negative in my opinion.

[Billfish715]

I have fished near the wind farm off Block Island and don’t remember any restrictions except for the safety boundaries when the blades are spinning. As for the fishing……..it was excellent. Of course the bottom structure, water quality, and bait were also contributing factors in the fishing quality. The wind farms will attract more fish and bait but they will not be a panacea.

[RescueDogger]

Will the underwater cables and associated magnetic fields and stuff mess with the fish? They've got those ampullary receptors.

[Gumada]

Will the underwater cables and associated magnetic fields and stuff mess with the fish? They've got those ampullary receptors.

Good point,
Some of the studies I’ve read indicate the fish will not cross over the energized transmission cables buried in the bottom. Think more studies need to be done.

https://tos.org/oceanography/article/setting-the-context-for-offshore-wind-development-effects-on-fish-and-fisheries

[dakota560]

I have fished near the wind farm off Block Island and don’t remember any restrictions except for the safety boundaries when the blades are spinning. As for the fishing……..it was excellent. Of course the bottom structure, water quality, and bait were also contributing factors in the fishing quality. The wind farms will attract more fish and bait but they will not be a panacea.

Bill I might be wrong but from what I've read Block Island has 5 turbines, 4 of which I've read have blades currently frozen, producing in total 30 megawatts of electricity. NJ regarding scale alone is talking about 500 turbines and up to 7 gigabytes of electricity. Add in the traffic in this area compared to Block Island and the safety concerns alone are exponentially greater. How many times over the years did the Ambrose Light house get hit by ships before it was so damaged it was decommissioned.

Again I believe the world has to do something about carbon emissions. Just pointing out for those who think this will not have negative consequences in terms of cost of electricity or access to areas turbines will be deployed, personally I'm not so optimistic. Anyone making a 2 billion plus investment is going to make sure that investment is protected especially when it's energy were talking about.

[hammer4reel]

Bill I might be wrong but from what I've read Block Island has 5 turbines, 4 of which I've read have blades currently frozen, producing in total 30 megawatts of electricity. NJ regarding scale alone is talking about 500 turbines and up to 7 gigabytes of electricity. Add in the traffic in this area compared to Block Island and the safety concerns alone are exponentially greater. How many times over the years did the Ambrose Light house get hit by ships before it was so damaged it was decommissioned.

Again I believe the world has to do something about carbon emissions. Just pointing out for those who think this will not have negative consequences in terms of cost of electricity or access to areas turbines will be deployed, personally I'm not so optimistic. Anyone making a 2 billion plus investment is going to make sure that investment is protected especially when it's energy were talking about.

Lots of unethical stuff will be done due to the money being made on these projects .
Testing that was supposed to be done first has been signed off on .
Structure that’s been fisherman’s life blood are being altered in ways that are irreplaceable.

Migration routes of our fisheries totally changed .

They are supposed to dig the cables in through Barneget bay to hook to the grid .
Your not allowed to blow out your boat slip , and they are going to trench a 15’ ditch totally across the bay .
.
Unless they come up with something new , I believe the wind speed can’t be above 10 knots . When it goes above 10 knots they disengage as it stacks the electricity faster than it can be transmitted .
So much of the FREE wind will be too strong , yet the windmills be be spinning like mad creating unnecessary ware and tare.

.

[Billfish715]

I admit only elementary knowledge of the production of energy. I do know that there is an increasing demand for adequate power to maintain the speed necessary to run many banks of computers. That power is fundamental in the bit coin industry. Planning and preparedness goes without saying. Adjustments will have to be made once the turbines are erected. They will definitely be navigational hazards. They will also attract various fish species. Adjust and adapt. Depending on where they are built, they might also be a bust for fishing.

As for the energy, two concerns are that if too much is produced, it has to be stored. Right now, that capacity is limited. If the blades freeze, there won’t be enough energy much like what happened last year in Texas. Excess energy can be sold throughout the grid but that remains to be seen and bargained.

[Capt. Debbie]

Fight nice! LOL



Really? You sir, are obviously very ignorant! I usually don't say much but, i have to comment on this one.
Coming from a Building trades family, I have always had the finances and solid foundation to raise a family with good healthcare and put my kids through college without student loans. All because of a "Union" background. I have worked my ass off and spent numerous hours in training classes to better myself and keep up with the new technology.
I challenge you to spend a day in the trenches with me. I can guarantee by the end of the day, You'll have a different opinion of me. "the union guy"
Unreal!

[Capt. Debbie]

The power is generated as the wind blows. It's extremely unreliable. Highest demand is the doldrums of summer for AC's with little to no wind. ABSOLUTELY USELESS for summer peak!

Additionally PSE&G, NJ biggest utility, has extremely little pumped storage at Yards Creek Pumped Storage. Next to nothing. The BIG Merrill Creek pumped storage project was canned decades ago

Electricity needs to be used when it's made. Whether needed or not your utility company MUST buy it from these developers. Guess who gets passed on the cost inefficiencies? Yes rate payers. The BPU already agreed.




I admit only elementary knowledge of the production of energy. I do know that there is an increasing demand for adequate power to maintain the speed necessary to run many banks of computers. That power is fundamental in the bit coin industry. Planning and preparedness goes without saying. Adjustments will have to be made once the turbines are erected. They will definitely be navigational hazards. They will also attract various fish species. Adjust and adapt. Depending on where they are built, they might also be a bust for fishing.

As for the energy, two concerns are that if too much is produced, it has to be stored. Right now, that capacity is limited. If the blades freeze, there won’t be enough energy much like what happened last year in Texas. Excess energy can be sold throughout the grid but that remains to be seen and bargained.

[dakota560]

Lots of unethical stuff will be done due to the money being made on these projects .
Testing that was supposed to be done first has been signed off on .
Structure that’s been fisherman’s life blood are being altered in ways that are irreplaceable.

Migration routes of our fisheries totally changed .

They are supposed to dig the cables in through Barneget bay to hook to the grid .
Your not allowed to blow out your boat slip , and they are going to trench a 15’ ditch totally across the bay .
.
Unless they come up with something new , I believe the wind speed can’t be above 10 knots . When it goes above 10 knots they disengage as it stacks the electricity faster than it can be transmitted .
So much of the FREE wind will be too strong , yet the windmills be be spinning like mad creating unnecessary ware and tare.

.

Like I said, we need to address carbon emissions on this planet so I'm not necessarily against wind farms. What I'm against is precisely Dan your point. Information shared with the public will be all pro investment and benefits. What you won't hear are the downsides and known risks.

To your point about testing, just remember the largest single natural disaster this country ever faced with Deep Water Horizons and why that accident happened. Cutting corners to meet deadlines and throwing safety protocols to the wind for the benefit of corporate greed. We all know how that ended and these projects will not be without consequences. Not to mention the price the average consumer will be paying for alternate electricity.

[bulletbob]

All of this political crap, and environmental outrage will vanish like a fart in the wind, if there is full access to recreational fishing, and guys start finding big reliable stockpiles [in season] of groundfish and visiting pelagics, not to mention sharks, exotics from time to time, maybe even some Cod, Ling etc all winter.. If they build it, and then let fishermen use the fish holding structures, believe me, all will be forgiven and forgotten... quick......bob

[Tuna Tales]

John Skinner seems to like Wind Farms:

https://www.onthewater.com/video-fishing-at-the-block-island-wind-farm

[hammer4reel]

John Skinner seems to like Wind Farms:

https://www.onthewater.com/video-fishing-at-the-block-island-wind-farm

No where near the same dynamic as will be faced here .
Much more transmission line work etc . And a huge area of it .

[AndyS]

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Companies interested in building wind energy turbines in the ocean off New Jersey and New York had bid more than $3.2 billion for the right to do so as of Thursday evening, with further bidding due on Friday.

The largest auction of offshore wind sites in the nation’s history is drawing strong interest from companies as an indication of the industry’s potential.

The second day of the auction by the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Energy Management involved six tracts of ocean floor off New York and New Jersey in an area known as the New York Bight.

When fully developed, these sites could provide enough energy to power 2 million homes, the agency said.

More than $1.5 billion worth of bids were received Wednesday, the first day of the auction. Bidding is to resume at 9 a.m. EST on Friday.

The response to the auction “shows that the offshore wind industry has truly arrived,” said Doug O’Malley, director of Environment New Jersey, adding that it “proves that clean renewable energy off the Jersey Shore is poised to enter a boom period.”

The auction for nearly 500,000 acres (about 202,342 hectares), when combined with past auctions, will span nearly 1 million acres. It was the largest such auction in the nation’s history, the ocean energy bureau said.

President Joe Biden has set a goal to install 30 gigawatts of offshore wind power by 2030, generating enough electricity to power more than 10 million homes.

The administration has approved the nation’s first two commercial-scale offshore wind projects in federal waters: the 800-megawatt Vineyard Wind project off the Massachusetts coast and the 130-megawatt South Fork wind farm near New York’s Long Island.

Not everyone is delighted with the scope and speed of offshore wind development. Homeowners groups in several spots in New Jersey are opposing the projects on environmental, economic and aesthetic grounds.

And even some environmental groups are displeased. New Jersey’s Clean Ocean Action called the auction “too much, too fast.”

“COA supports responsible and reasonable offshore wind energy, but this is a reckless privatization, and will not ensure protection of marine life including whales, dolphins, turtles and the hundreds of other species that call the ocean home,” the group said.

Cindy Zipf, the group’s executive director, said the auction area is five times the size of New York City.

Five of the six tracts are located off the central or southern coasts of New Jersey. The largest, at over 114,000 acres (about 46,134 hectares), is located off the coast of Long Beach Island, and could generate enough electricity to power nearly half a million homes, according to the ocean energy bureau.

The bureau said it will make public the identities of the successful bidders once the auction is concluded.

[Jigman13]

John Skinner seems to like Wind Farms:

https://www.onthewater.com/video-fishing-at-the-block-island-wind-farm

It's also a very different and better fishery off of block. In the fall, the area around those wind mills is boiling with life from surface to bottom. Bluefin tuna, bluefish, sea bass, porgies, fluke, cod, tog, ling, cunner, etc. The fish finder gets stacked... and waaaaay fewer boats vs the NY Bight.

[bulletbob]

It's also a very different and better fishery off of block. In the fall, the area around those wind mills is boiling with life from surface to bottom. Bluefin tuna, bluefish, sea bass, porgies, fluke, cod, tog, ling, cunner, etc. The fish finder gets stacked... and waaaaay fewer boats vs the NY Bight.

Agreed, but those windmills off of LBI will see lots of exotics in summer, guaranteed. Cobia, Spanish macs, maybe even a few oddball Jacks, stuff thats seen further south.. Not sure of course, but that much structure on the sand bottom will draw all kinds of life like a magnet, after a few short years.. It all depends on access.. Like I said, if access is good, fishermen will never complain about the "ugly" wind turbines... I can almost guarantee the fishing will be good..... It always is when this kind of structure is introduced over otherwise dead sand bottom... Takes a few years, but it will happen...

[frugalfisherman]

By the time these are built you guys will only be allowed to keep skates and there will be a limit of 2 of them.

[bulletbob]

By the time these are built you guys will only be allowed to keep skates and there will be a limit of 2 of them.
Yeah, but to show their good intentions, they'll open up a 1 fish slot limit on pout or horn dogs, so as to keep recreational fishermen happy, so there's that....

[dakota560]

Two interesting articles, one regarding recent deals on the wind farm front and one article involving wind farms early last year from the Atlantic City Press.

First articles discusses the revenue generated raised from the bidding process for six sites off NY / NY which came in at $4.37 billion. You can read the details in the the attached link. Recent article dated 2/25/22.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/us-offshore-wind-auction-in-ny-nj-raises-a-record-4point37-billion.html

Second article was written back in 2/1/21 in the Atlantic City Press from the perspective of the multinational partnership buying up these rights. Didn't realize our own Adam Nowalsky was hired by the Atlantic Shores which is one of the organizations involved on the investor / developer side as part of the multi national partnership as a paid liaison representing the fishing community. Adam as you know is the Chair for the Summer Flounder fishery on the MAFMC and I believe recently was Chair on the Summer Flounder fishery for the ASMFC as well. Adam is also the Chair for the New Jersey Chapter of RFA so it would be great not in an official capacity but as a for hire captain to get some insight into the on-going discussions regarding these wind farm negotiations and his thoughts. My personal experience with large negotiations and in this case people spending multiple billions of dollars for an upstart investment is they won't care one bit about rock formations, mussel beds, crustaceans, fish stocks, lobsters, habitat etc. or any other aspect of marine fisheries or environment as opposed to where is the best place to place their turbines to maximize production efficiency and profits. I know Adam frequently visits and reads posts on this site, would be great in a non official capacity if he shared his view about this project and the directions it's headed both in terms of potential benefits nd concerns.

Second article is in attached link:

https://pressofatlanticcity.com/anglers-and-officials-for-offshore-wind-farm-partnership-explore-effects-of-planned-project-on-njs/article_e1377723-4fbc-52e0-ba6c-bf2bb0d544ec.html

Adam we'd all appreciate in your capacity as a for hire captain and recreational fisherman and since you were hired by the multinational partnerships bidding on these contracts your insight into the status and ramifications of the projects. Thanks in advance.