Offshore wind farms

[sternline]

Ocean Winds: Bringing Us Renewable Fish with Renewable Energy - Emagazine.com

[sternline]

Ocean Winds: Bringing Us Renewable Fish with Renewable Energy - Emagazine.com

[Flygaff]

I'm all for the renewable energy that wind will bring. However, Most likely it will just bring us large areas of restricted water. I hope I'm wrong

[Ol Pedro]

I'm all for the renewable energy that wind will bring. However, Most likely it will just bring us large areas of restricted water. I hope I'm wrong

I hope your wrong too. I don't trust our government or big business to do the right thing when it comes to fishing or hunting access. Money always wins. Even if we have access in the beginning some knuckleheads will damage or deface the windmills giving the lease owners an excuse to stop access.

[bulletbob]

access is everything... Those structures will draw fish like a magnet within a year or two,, Proven fact...
They will also take a ton of pressure off the natural rock bottom structure as well as artificial reefs and wrecks...

The windmills off Block Island are not restricted, except no tying off the structures or anchoring close to them which is understandable.

NJ MUST allow access to fishermen, even if it requires several patrol boats to keep morons from trying to paint graffitti or damage the towers in some way.

[Capt. Debbie]

If they are beyond the 3 mile limit- NJ has no say it what they do or not do. That is all Federal jrdx.


access is everything... Those structures will draw fish like a magnet within a year or two,, Proven fact...
They will also take a ton of pressure off the natural rock bottom structure as well as artificial reefs and wrecks...

The windmills off Block Island are not restricted, except no tying off the structures or anchoring close to them which is understandable.

NJ MUST allow access to fishermen, even if it requires several patrol boats to keep morons from trying to paint graffitti or damage the towers in some way.

[dakota560]

Interesting read

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109922/witnesses/HHRG-116-II06-Wstate-YatesE-20190916.pdf

If you research wind farms there's a lot of pro articles and an equal amount of negative ones. As with everything, the spin they get is based on who wrote the article or whose agenda they support. The answer of their impacts won't be known until they're built. As far as access is concerned, it's energy and will fall under the Department of Homeland Security. All the upfront promises won't change a thing if there's one terrorist threat. It'll be the equivalent of what happened at Earle Ammunition Pier.

Europe leads the way in wind farm production and while it's been successful, it's had it share of set backs which is to be expected. Europe's not stopping planned installations and I'd imagine either is the US.

The world needs to come to grips with carbon emissions so ready or not wind farms are coming. Knowing the impacts of construction and operational changes won't fully be known until after they're installed.

[TomKaye]

Don't have any scientiffic data, just some first hand observation.
Several 6 pack charters I've been on.

July of '20 & '21 several years after construction. The fluke & sea bass fishing was outstanding within a couple hundred yards to a mile or two of the Block Island wind farm.

October & November '20 & '21. Outstanding blackfish results although we were within a couple miles of the farm. Don't ask me where.
I guess what I'm saying in agreement with Bob & others, --you build it the fish will come. I don't know anything about possible electrical current vibrations from underwater turbine cables, but the fishing was great.

Hopefully our incompetent bureaucrats ( State & Federal ) won't eff this up by restricting access when offshore wind turbines come to our area. I hope my grandkids get to fish near them with similar results to our RI trips.
Tight lines guys and stay safe.

[JMo1986]

I am all-in on good structure that the commercial guys cannot decimate. Block Island is a pretty special fishery. Plus I work in renewables, so I kinda have a bit of bias for professional reasons. ;)

[dakota560]

As I said we won't know the answers until they're installed in spite of what we think. How windy it is, how often they run and at what speed could have impacts. Different speeds emit different sounds levels. Different species have different tolerances. Maybe water temperature has an impact on how sound travels for that matter.

Read a lot of articles about impacts on summer flounder / flatfish. May not cause mortality but might very well change migratory patterns. Another question which no one knows the answer to is what is the impact on offshore spawning in areas where these structures will be built. Summer flounder eggs float to the surface and follow the currents eventually inshore to estuaries.

There's going to be construction and explorations issues creating soundwaves and disruptions in the beginning stages. That'll be followed by operational issues including electrical leakage, electromagnetic fields and sound transmission. Not sure what all that means but the point is no one does. Will any of this kill juveniles on their journey inshore? Will any of this effect east west migratory species and their migration patterns like summer flounder navigating through these areas? We don't know what we don't know but we're going to find out.

If it does impact the summer flounder fishery in anyway, especially negative impacts on recruitment, the good news is you'll be able to buy a five pack of Gulp Grubs for about 50 cents as the regulations will probably be in the area of 1 fish at 45 inches.

Don't get me wrong, I think the bigger issue is the planet and we have to go through this process. It's always best having a good idea of what to expect and that's where I think the public is never fully informed. Whatever the impacts are going to be, ready or not here they come and like everyone I hope there's more positive than negative but to think nothing will change and some of what will change won't be problematic I think is wishful thinking. Like I said, one terrorist threat when we have a higher percentage of the country's energy dependent on wind farms and in spite of the environmental and fisheries impacts, access will change overnight whether it's at Block Island or off Atlantic City.

[JMo1986]

Yes, it will take years to know how it impacts NJ specifically. I would expect limited or even no access during the construction/commissioning phase of the projects, but in the most basic form structure is good. Oil rigs are also fine fisheries and they also have had plenty of environmental/biological concerns. Obviously it also depends on the construction and operation folks to do their jobs correctly..... coughBPcough

[AndyS]

These use lube oil not rainbows and unicorn farts, you know that right ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5COAi6KM8o

[JMo1986]

As I said, I work in the industry, so yes I am aware of how they work. That is an ancient machine that was not worth the cost to upgrade or maintain properly..... So the owners decided to run them until they stopped working and then replace them with newer tech. Poor operations, which I stated already as an environmental concern.

How is your Gateway computer competing with new tech? ;)

Find me a 12MW machine doing that and I will mail you a cookie. How many exploded at Block Island?

For anyone with a genuine interest instead of a snarky "get off my lawn" reply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqCVgRbPQcg

[Capt Sal]

Some people think they would let you tie off to it and fish the structure-NOT!!!

[tautog]

All the dead sea bird bits are great chum downwind of the turbines.

[Foul Hook]

All the dead sea bird bits are great chum downwind of the turbines.
I could do with a few less salt water gamehen.

[dakota560]

Some people think they would let you tie off to it and fish the structure-NOT!!!

Same way the lobster guys let you tie off to their high flyers in the canyon to chunk at night. Its all good until they catch you and then you are &^%^#%$!

[bulletbob]

If they are beyond the 3 mile limit- NJ has no say it what they do or not do. That is all Federal jrdx.

Correct of course,, I didn't consider that... Since fishing is allowed near the Block Island windfarm and that is under federal jurisdiction as well, perhaps thats a good indicator...

[Capt. Debbie]

As a rule of thumb you would expect consistency. That is unless these are built different and need special accommodations or not.

Personally I think its a good thing.

BTW.. anyone detect a difference in fishing since PSE&G ran a NJ submarine cable to feed LI several years ago? I'd guess not.



Correct of course,, I didn't consider that... Since fishing is allowed near the Block Island windfarm and that is under federal jurisdiction as well, perhaps thats a good indicator...

[2na]

Meanwhile China is burning all the coal it can find…

[NoLimit]

These use lube oil not rainbows and unicorn farts, you know that right ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5COAi6KM8o:D:D:D

[NoLimit]

All the dead sea bird bits are great chum downwind of the turbines. Exactly - everyone screaming about fracking fluid which has not harmed a single thing and meanwhile, these windmills are killing 35 million birds a year. PLUS the windmills (and solar and electric cars) are all heavily subsidized. Finally, the windmills dont work when power is most needed - at night and during the coldest days of winter. http://www.windaction.org/

[dakota560]

Exactly - everyone screaming about fracking fluid which has not harmed a single thing and meanwhile, these windmills are killing 35 million birds a year. PLUS the windmills (and solar and electric cars) are all heavily subsidized. Finally, the windmills dont work when power is most needed - at night and during the coldest days of winter. http://www.windaction.org/

What's your source if you don't mind sharing for 35 million birds killed by windfarms? Ocean have become the worlds largest dumping grounds. Plastic alone kills million of mammals and marine life a year not to mention pollution, ocean dumping etc. Read this article, estimates 100 million marine animals a year killed due to all kinds of pollution. Numbers are staggering, don't know if 100 million is an underestimate or over but any numbers you read about are large.

https://www.condorferries.co.uk/marine-ocean-pollution-statistics-facts

1.35 million people die a year in car crashes but we didn't outlaw cars. Don't think anyone will ever care about wildlife when it comes to agriculture or energy. There's going to be consequences unfortunately but if we don't start taking care of this planet, bird kills from windfarms will be the least of our concerns. And this from someone who has a soft spot in his heart for natural resources and wild life. Just think we need to face reality at some point and make some tough decisions hopefully based on facts to stop exploiting and damaging this planet.

[PortlyRedhead]

Exactly - everyone screaming about fracking fluid which has not harmed a single thing and meanwhile, these windmills are killing 35 million birds a year. PLUS the windmills (and solar and electric cars) are all heavily subsidized. Finally, the windmills dont work when power is most needed - at night and during the coldest days of winter. http://www.windaction.org/

Fracking fluids have ruined groundwater for thousands of Americans.

Cold winter days and nights on the ocean are typically windy.

[Capt. Debbie]

Why would windmills not work at night and winter?

Also isn't electrical demand higher in the day time and summers? I worked for 22 years at PSE&G and all time high MW records were all day times on weekdays and A/C months. Winter is when most generating stations did extended outages.

The problem with windmills is you cant store it from weekend generation when demand is low and move the stored electricity to week days. PSE&G tried battery storage in the 1980's at BEST facility in Hillsboro and it was big flop. They also had Merrill Creek Project which was pumped storage. Pump up reservoir at night and weekends and save for discharge thru hydro powered generation weekdays.

Back then they also thought nuke generation would be stored nights and weekends and was was supposed to be " Too cheap to meter". Funny!







Exactly..... Finally, the windmills dont work when power is most needed - at night and during the coldest days of winter. http://www.windaction.org/

[acabtp]

the yards creek pumped hydro facility has been banking power since the 60s out in blairstown, 420 megawatts max output. pretty impressive but you never hear anything about it, most people don't know it even exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yards_Creek_Generating_Station
would need a whole lot more facilities like this in the long term to be able to utilize more renewable power

[NoLimit]

[QUOTE=PortlyRedhead;565589]Fracking fluids have ruined groundwater for thousands of Americans.

That is absolutely not true. In fact there has never been a trace of fracking fluid found in any water supply. It is 99.99% sand and water. https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/06/even-obamas-epa-now-admits-fracking-hasnt-harmed-water-supplies-jillian-kay-melchior/

[NoLimit]

What's your source if you don't mind sharing for 35 million birds killed by windfarms? Ocean have become the worlds largest dumping grounds. Plastic alone kills million of mammals and marine life a year not to mention pollution, ocean dumping etc. Read this article, estimates 100 million marine animals a year killed due to all kinds of pollution.

So you’re saying Let’s Kill Some More? Where’s the mute button on this thing?! I get enough Lefty propaganda and don’t need it here. https://www.masterresource.org/cuisinarts-of-the-air/hiding-avian-mortality-altamont-pass/

[hammer4reel]

Both wind farms and solar are short based fixes (a bandaid )
They have a life expectancy of under 25 years .
At the end of the 25 years their structures are incredibly toxic to the environment .
Wind farm reconstruction doesn’t happen as it’s not cost effective .
Solar panels aren’t allowed to be sent to dumps , fields they were installed in are never to produce food again .

We are just replacing one toxin with another .


.

[acabtp]

Solar panels aren’t allowed to be sent to dumps , fields they were installed in are never to produce food again .

We are just replacing one toxin with another .


.
Huh, so solar panels ruin the ground forever??? That's a new one for me! Source?

[bulletbob]

Huh, so solar panels ruin the ground forever??? That's a new one for me! Source?

https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/
There are dozens of similar articles... Solar cells are full of poison, and cannot be easily disposed of.
I have no problem with solar, have a very expensive solar backup system on my roof, that hasn't worked at all since we had it installed.. They are supposed to come get it right soon... However, solar panels are NO long term solution.

[JMo1986]

Both wind farms and solar are short based fixes (a bandaid )
They have a life expectancy of under 25 years .
At the end of the 25 years their structures are incredibly toxic to the environment .
Wind farm reconstruction doesn’t happen as it’s not cost effective .
Solar panels aren’t allowed to be sent to dumps , fields they were installed in are never to produce food again .

We are just replacing one toxin with another .


.

You really think the federal government will allow a wind turbine to “melt” into the water? The turbines will be decommissioned (aka remove chemical equipment) or retrofitted to a newer version. Europe started offshore wind and those units are nowhere near 25 years old so I honestly don’t know what the owners will do. These “toxins” you speak of would be primarily fiberglass (blades) and concrete structure in most cases. I am absolutely sure there is not 10 million fiberglass fishings rods on the wrecks of nj and no wrecks consisting of construction concrete. Not to mention that manufacturers have developing recyclable blades for a few years and it should go serial soon enough.

Also regarding wind being well subsidized and not profitable. Why don’t you check out fossil fuel subsidies and stop complaining about expensive gas. It’s all a racket.

[damnyankee]

So you’re saying Let’s Kill Some More? Where’s the mute button on this thing?! I get enough Lefty propaganda and don’t need it here. https://www.masterresource.org/cuisinarts-of-the-air/hiding-avian-mortality-altamont-pass/

and buildings kill almost 1 BILLION per year, holy cow!:

https://www.birdwatchingdaily.com/news/conservation/collisions-with-buildings-kill-365-988-million-birds-annually/

save the birds! ban all buildings over 2 stories! and get off my damn lawn!

[hammer4reel]

You really think the federal government will allow a wind turbine to “melt” into the water? The turbines will be decommissioned (aka remove chemical equipment) or retrofitted to a newer version. Europe started offshore wind and those units are nowhere near 25 years old so I honestly don’t know what the owners will do. These “toxins” you speak of would be primarily fiberglass (blades) and concrete structure in most cases. I am absolutely sure there is not 10 million fiberglass fishings rods on the wrecks of nj and no wrecks consisting of construction concrete. Not to mention that manufacturers have developing recyclable blades for a few years and it should go serial soon enough.

Also regarding wind being well subsidized and not profitable. Why don’t you check out fossil fuel subsidies and stop complaining about expensive gas. It’s all a racket.

The Monopiles are not made from Concrete , they are made of a steel tube driven into the sea bed .

I def agree something has to change in the gas game , but what’s being sold as the alternative is as bad a bill of goods .
And is just as damaging or more to the environment.

.

[JMo1986]

Also agree that their is still work to be done on supply chain, but the technology is improving rapidly and manufactures/owners are more sensitive to making everything recyclable (or green).

I just don't see the same negatives relative to other energy sector pollution concerns (Exxon Valdez, Deepwater Horizon/BP, Fukushima, etc). Those environmental disasters have all caused more harm to marine life than wind turbines will ever cause....

We also dump trash in the ocean, so I guess society is not as concerned about it all as we are as sportsmen.

F' it dude, let's go bowling.

[Capt Sal]

And i thought this was not a Political Site?

[bulletbob]

And i thought this was not a Political Site?

Its not... However sometimes 2 topics are inseparably intertwined, and must be discussed together.. I would say the political implications and the fisheries management issues concerning wind farms are both valid topics in this discussion.