GAMBLER --Striped Bass Report

[captbogan]

Overall, the striped bass fishing has been pretty good so far. Some days better than others but plenty of big bass around to both the North and South.

The Gambler guys and gals are catching them on swim shads and live bunker.

Releasing a lot of bigger stripers.

It seems ashame to me that the bio mass was steadily increasing for years with the regs being two fish at 28" and over --but fisheries managers had to keep messing with it. They really need to look at the fact that stripers spend a lot of time outside the 3 mile line.

[Ol Pedro]

We are fortunate that the bait is inside three miles this year. It sucks that you can't go outside the eez to fish for other species if you have Stripers on board. We have seen birds working outside the line and can't check them out without risking a citation. What about catch and release outside the line? I don't think that it's legal. You can't even fish for them. You can't retain incidental catches outside the eez even if the Striper is legal size. The managers not only complicate the regulations they limit access. Why don't the managers look into the commercial bi-catch that is just wasted? They can't retain them to sell so they go back. If they die then too bad. It made me sick when I saw dozens of large Stripers floating North of Manasquan Inlet one Striper trip with a gillnetter working close by a few years ago. Why don't they manage the waste better instead of limiting the sport catch. I agree with Bob that 2@28" has been working. I guess that the managers use Politically Correct Voodo Science to base their decisions on.

[Gumada]

They still use the science that decimated flounder, fluke, whiting and other game fish ! No it was not the recreational sector that caused the bio mass to crash ! They learn nothing !

[dakota560]

This year's run of big fish and the size body of fish is one of the best fall runs in years. Being an inshore stock, stripers get pounded year round from North Carolina to Maine and need some protection. For years, people on this site when they saw monster bass, spawners, lying on the deck for the hero shot said just wait and see what happens to this fishery. We're killing too many spawners, the future of the stock. Well what happened, recruitment plummeted 50% and so did the stock. We brought this on ourselves.

Best thing to happen to this fishery was the introduction of a slot and mandated circle hooks. Leave the EEZ zone for the protection of migrating stock otherwise we all know it'll turn into a shit show.

Personally I believe this is a fishery that the states and fisheries management got right. How can you argue the results we're seeing. Would rather release the breeders, have a good chance catching a keeper or two, as opposed to fishing in a dead ocean. How many reports have there been this year with PB mentioned? A lot. It'll bring people back even if they can't keep those larger fish while still having a good chance to bring home dinner Not a bad trade off and circle hooks are significantly reducing release mortality in the fishery.

This isn't the same science or better said management philosophy that killed flounder, fluke , whiting etc. In the case of fluke, it's the exact opposite. We're asking for a slot which till now has fallen on deaf ears. With whiting and winter flounder, commercials found them offshore and took everything. Killed the smaller fish and harvested the larger higher market value breeders. Wiped out both stocks. Year round harvest, no protection whatsoever to the stock. With fluke it's the polar opposite of bass, were harvesting all the breeders and killing already greatly reduced recruitment classes in the process of that harvest. If it doesn't change, summer flounder will follow the exact track as winter flounder for all the same reasons. It's already happening. Someone tell me one fishery where the philosophy of harvesting older sexually mature breeders while killing sexually immature fish, the farm system, in the process works. You can't because it doesn't, it's a formula for disaster.

If we don't start focusing on recruitment, protection of the spawning stock and long-term management practices for every stock, there won't be long-term fisheries. It's that simple.

[hammer4reel]

The old limit was fine for the Hudson run fish ,.
It’s not for the. Chesapeake run fish .
Those stocks have been crushed by the 6 months of getting pounded south of us for too long .
There are high dollar tournaments down in VA that didn’t even have a legal fish weighed in .
No sense in those states changing their limit to try and rebuild the sticks to have us beat them up here .

What’s wrong with actually having a species we promote as a catch and release fishery that will last decades .
And just keep smaller fish for the table ?

Best thing for long term fishing for stripers was to have to release these fish full of eggs to continue the stocks

[Billfish715]

[QUOTE=dakota560;564737



This isn't the same science or better said management philosophy that killed flounder, fluke , whiting etc. In the case of fluke, it's the exact opposite. We're asking for a slot which till now has fallen on deaf ears. With whiting and winter flounder, commercials found them offshore and took everything. Killed the smaller fish and harvested the larger higher market value breeders. Wiped out both stocks. Year round harvest, no protection whatsoever to the stock. With fluke it's the polar opposite of bass, were harvesting all the breeders and killing already greatly reduced recruitment classes in the process of that harvest. If it doesn't change, summer flounder will follow the exact track as winter flounder for all the same reasons. It's already happening. Someone tell me one fishery where the philosophy of harvesting older sexually mature breeders while killing sexually immature fish, the farm system, in the process works. You can't because it doesn't, it's a formula for disaster.[/QUOTE]


That's a very good assessment of the contrasting and convoluted philosophies of those in charge of our fisheries. Will they ever look into a mirror and see themselves as having no consistency in their decision-making? Some might call them hypocrites while most will charge them with uncompromising self-righteousness.

In any case, if there is so much concern and social empathy for the esteemed striped bass, why can't there be the sane feelings and dealings for the lowly summer flounder? in a time when so much social and political interest is directed toward social justice and class, the same attitudes are being directed toward our fisheries.

High up on the social class of fish is the striped bass. Very low on the list is the flounder. Which species do you suppose gets the most attention? Those that fish for stripers might be considered a bit more elite than those who fish for fluke. Who would a politician likely support and which fish would those bureaucrats most likely protect? It's just a theory but money and social class get every politician's ear. Stripers rate. Flounder don't. There is more status in catching a big striped bass than in catching a lowly fluke.

All of this matters when it comes to making fisheries' decisions and regulations. Again, it's just theory but once those managers raise their evaluations and status of flounder to the levels of striped bass, they will always be relegated to second class status.

[Skolmann]

Why does it seem that in general anglers in the southeast have no problems with slot limits (on gamefish species such as redfish, snook, sea trout), having no problem with a catch & release fishery and only take 1 for the table (instead of whatever the legal limit is)-while anglers in the northeast feel as if they always have to keep their legal limit, have no regard for the breeding stock & frown upon having slot limits ?

[Ol Pedro]

I'm ok with circle hooks. The conditions are changing with more Bunker live lining/chunking. A lot of boats on this site have promoted releasing larger fish even before the slot. Over 90% of my Stripers are caught on jigs anyway. I remove the treble hooks on all my jigs and replace them with single hooks. Most fish are liphooked. I prefer to eat Stripers on the small side as they taste better. I'm not ok with the eez regs. Not being able to go over the line to switch species if you have Stripers on board sucks. We used to be able to find Bluefish further offshore when the Stripers were difficult. With the slot limit in place why not drop the eez restriction? The bi-catch issue goes on both inside and outside the eez. This is just my opinion. It's all right to disagree.

[dakota560]

I agree nothing wrong with a healthy debate and opposing views. Open up the EEZ zone and you open it to commercial as well. As it is already, many boats fish beyond that line. Give the green light and you're going to see culling increase as well as release mortality which means two things. More bass killed and stricter regulations in the future. At the same time, you remove the one safe harbor this inshore stock has. The long term consequences to this fishery would in my opinion overshadow the short term benefits.

[spc06]

Overall, the striped bass fishing has been pretty good so far. Some days better than others but plenty of big bass around to both the North and South.

The Gambler guys and gals are catching them on swim shads and live bunker.

Releasing a lot of bigger stripers.

It seems ashame to me that the bio mass was steadily increasing for years with the regs being two fish at 28" and over --but fisheries managers had to keep messing with it. They really need to look at the fact that stripers spend a lot of time outside the 3 mile line.

Fantastic you are still hitting them.

[WhaleFart]

This is the bio mass of breeder fish, in spectrum it’s not very big. I fully support a moratorium on striped bass for 3 years minimum if it means the survival of this fishery.

[Ol Pedro]

I have caught Stripers under Boston Mackerel off shore. They go where the food is. Big Stripers prefer larger forage and probably follow those Mackerel for months never entering the eez till they spawn.

[dakota560]

I have caught Stripers under Boston Mackerel off shore. They go where the food is. Big Stripers prefer larger forage and probably follow those Mackerel for months never entering the eez till they spawn.

I've seen cod caught under those same mackerel schools and caught weakfish on 180ft wrecks sea bass fishing. Doesn't mean both those stocks are healthy or rebounded. The largest of bass tend to take a more easterly migration but they don't represent the biomass. Like I said, open this fishery up beyond the EEZ zone and everything will change and not for the better.

[hammer4reel]

I'm ok with circle hooks. The conditions are changing with more Bunker live lining/chunking. A lot of boats on this site have promoted releasing larger fish even before the slot. Over 90% of my Stripers are caught on jigs anyway. I remove the treble hooks on all my jigs and replace them with single hooks. Most fish are liphooked. I prefer to eat Stripers on the small side as they taste better. I'm not ok with the eez regs. Not being able to go over the line to switch species if you have Stripers on board sucks. We used to be able to find Bluefish further offshore when the Stripers were difficult. With the slot limit in place why not drop the eez restriction? The bi-catch issue goes on both inside and outside the eez. This is just my opinion. It's all right to disagree.

If the EZ was open , they would kill every bass they could from November until the April closure off Virginia.
It is that fishery that is hurting ours here.
As it’s the same body of fish we have only here in the spring and the fall .
VA has those fish for 6 months


.

[dakota560]

Be very careful what you ask for with a stock pounded year round up and down the coast with a north south migration. This fishery got destroyed in the 70's / 80's because of netting as Dan pointed out in the southern end of their migration range during the spawn. What happened was tragic and an almost complete collapse of the fishery.
Guys want the same thing to happen, open the EEZ back up and you won't have to worry about the three mile line because the fishery will collapse again. Then what's everyone targeting in the fall?

[Gerry Zagorski]

IMHO several things have turned the tide on the Striped Bass from their absence in the 70s and 80s and the ones that most influenced the turn around are:

- Improved water quality and habitat in fresh water areas where they spawn
- Pushing the Bunker Reduction Boats out past the 3 mile limit
- Closing federal waters to commercial harvest

They say the Stripers stocks were in trouble a few years ago..... Bullshit and if that was the case, how did they rebound so quickly??

Yes we still have some lingering issues in some areas like the Chesapeake Bay but those issues pale in comparison to the problems of the past which I mentioned above.

Having said all the above, I'm all in for sensible conservation on our part when needed but it's not like the short term science and stock assessments are reliable and neither are knee jerk recreational regulations.

This is a marathon, not a sprint !

[hammer4reel]

IMHO several things have turned the tide on the Striped Bass from their absence in the 70s and 80s and the ones that most influenced the turn around are:

- Improved water quality and habitat in fresh water areas where they spawn
- Pushing the Bunker Reduction Boats out past the 3 mile limit
- Closing federal waters to commercial harvest

They say the Stripers stocks were in trouble a few years ago..... Bullshit and if that was the case, how did they rebound so quickly??

Yes we still have some lingering issues in some areas like the Chesapeake Bay but those issues pale in comparison to the problems of the past which I mentioned above.

Having said all the above, I'm all in for sensible conservation on our part when needed but it's not like the short term science and stock assessments are reliable and neither are knee jerk recreational regulations.

This is a marathon, not a sprint !

That post shows how out of touch you are to half of where our bass run comes from .
While the Hudson strain is doing INCREDIBLE , the Chesapeake strain was as close to collapse as could happen , and allow them to rebuild .
Va winter fishery destroyed them over a five year period worse than ever done at any time .
You can’t kill all the breeders for over 5 months straight and expect the fishery to stay sustainable.

We used to catch tons of bass every night in the spring for 3 months Oceanside , and another in the fall .
That fishery is good for less than 4 weeks in the spring and about the same in the fall IF bait is on the beach .

All the states south of us did what was needed to prevent a total collapse . They didn’t change their rules because the fishery was in good shape .
They cut back before there was nothing to fish for .
.
Same thing should have been done for fluke , bluefish etc sooner , not later ..


.

[Ol Pedro]

If we have to have a slot limit then why can't we fish outside the eez? The big spawners are being released both inside and outside the line. The abundance of Bunker has helped the fishing . Not only for the Stripers . I'm with Jerry. Reducing the tonage of Bunker the reduction fleet is taking and keeping them outside the line will improve the fishery even more. More food more fish. If sport boats can't fish outside the line then the comms shouldn't be able to harvest Stripers outside the eez. Releasing these big fish is a waste of time if the fish don't have a good place to spawn.

[dakota560]

IMHO several things have turned the tide on the Striped Bass from their absence in the 70s and 80s and the ones that most influenced the turn around are:

- Improved water quality and habitat in fresh water areas where they spawn
- Pushing the Bunker Reduction Boats out past the 3 mile limit
- Closing federal waters to commercial harvest

They say the Stripers stocks were in trouble a few years ago..... Bullshit and if that was the case, how did they rebound so quickly??

Yes we still have some lingering issues in some areas like the Chesapeake Bay but those issues pale in comparison to the problems of the past which I mentioned above.

Having said all the above, I'm all in for sensible conservation on our part when needed but it's not like the short term science and stock assessments are reliable and neither are knee jerk recreational regulations.

This is a marathon, not a sprint !

Gerry responses to your post.

Improved water quality and habitat. Not true. The Hudson makes up about 7% of the striper recruitment and biomass, Chesapeake the other 93%. Here's a few recent excerpt about both:

According to data submitted to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 2016, 82 percent of the Chesapeake Bay's tidal segments are partially or fully impaired by toxic contaminants.

Meanwhile, the Environmental Protection Agency deems 200 miles of the Hudson a toxic Superfund site because of contamination by polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs. General Electric spent five years dredging the riverbed to clean up the PCB problem, although it has not proved a panacea.Mar 28, 2019

What is harming the Chesapeake Bay?
Image result for pollution in the Chesapeake
Unfortunately, the Chesapeake Bay faces serious problems due to human activities, including polluted storm water runoff, over-fertilization and pollution from animal wastes, deforestation, wetland destruction from agricultural, urban, and suburban development, and sea level rise caused by global climate change.

They're both still extremely polluted. The Chesapeake has actually gotten much worse and turning into a cesspool of agricultural and urban waste, the most polluted it's been with no sign of improvement due to urban and agricultural pollution emptying in from the Potomac and Susquehanna. Pesticides, agricultural toxins and urban waste are killing the primary spawning grounds of striped bass. Read the following article about the great bay's fate, doesn't sound like water quality and habitat are improving at all, actually just the opposite.

https://www.cbf.org/how-we-save-the-bay/chesapeake-clean-water-blueprint/what-is-killing-the-bay.html

Reduction boats have been pushed out beyond the three mile limit. Maybe they have up north but that doesn't appear to be the case in Virginia where Cooke Inc AKA Omega One, routinely nets inside the bay. And that happens to be the bay which is the primary spawning grounds of all menhaden along our entire coasts. Read the following excerpt in the attached link:

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/natural/menhaden.html

Two statements from said article which should be reason for concerns for the decimation of a vital component of the local food chain:

Today, menhaden stocks are dramatically reduced, primarily due to overharvesting. Because menhaden travel in large "schools," large numbers can be caught in nets.

AND

One concern is that current levels of menhaden removals may lead to "localized depletion" of the stock within Chesapeake Bay, which could undermine menhaden's important ecological role as a principal prey species and filter feeder in Bay waters.

Closing federal waters to commercial harvest. Not sure what changes were made in federal waters or when but will research. What collapsed this fishery in the 70's and 80's is the damage caused by shore based gill netting in state waters during the migration and spawn. A picture is worth a thousand words so check out the carnage in the below images. If I'm not mistaken, netting even occurred in the Chesapeake during the primary spawn. A few pick up trucks, a small boat to tow the gill net and entire schools of migrating large breeders were dragged ashore. What happened in Virginia and North Carolina was nothing short of an absolute atrocity. I'm sure commercials still get their fair share today and discard mortality is an issue if like many species different age classes have different market values. You've seen the pictures I'm sure as I have of acres of bass floating dead when trawlers dump their catch keeping only the desired harvest to maximize catch values. Everything else becomes an absolute waste of a precious resource built on the sacrifices of other states.

Young of the year index for stripers is way down as is recruitment. Is it environmental, fishing related, something else, all of the above.....no one seems to have the answer. But with all species if we think harvesting the mega breeders of a stock and not allowing in this case a stock that gets pounded year round some sort of safe harbor during their migration (the EEZ), history will repeat itself and the fishery will again crash.

I agree with Pedro that protecting breeders if adequate habitat doesn't exist to spawn is as useless as tits on a bull. The habitat issues need to be addressed as well as protecting breeders and a good starting point would be stop all netting in Chesapeake Bay and let nature's natural filtration system, bunker, do their thing. Second, NJ and many northern states are now protecting larger breeders, primarily females. Southern states are not. Maryland's regulation is one fish daily over 19", Virginia is 2 fish over 18" and North Carolina, 2 fish possession with one fish between 18" and 22' and one fish over 27". The disparity between states is truthfully a cluster &*%$ and not helping the fishery. Northern states have to release the big girls and the southern states can harvest them. No different than summer flounder from the point of view that recreational anglers are forced to release anything under 18" or 19" in most states but commercial can harvest those same fish or they become collateral damage in the process of harvesting larger and higher market value fish. Makes zero sense. Fisheries management knows this but allows it to happen for political reasons.

And I think what they actually said a few years ago was the recruitment trend for the last decade was in trouble, not the stock itself as you mentioned being bullshit. It was recruitment levels plummeting that was the impetus of the new regulations. Since recruitment is a leading indicator of any fisheries health, the stock will follow suit in coming years. Check out the last two graphs, that's why the regulations were changed. Same reason the summer flounder regulations should be changed immediately to a slot and ultimately regulations in place from the 90's but we all know politics isn't just yet allowing that to happen.

Either way, as I said earlier, if you want more restrictive regulations in coming years, open up the EEZ because you know as well as I that's exactly what the end game will be and we'll end up killing more large female breeders in the process with or without circle hooks.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Sounds like all doom and gloom to me...

Yes the Chesapeake area needs some attention but all you need to do is open your eyes in our area to see that the stocks are much better shape then they were in the 70s and 80s. People in the know have been catching Stripers all year long, they're also being caught fairly regularly way up in our rivers and streams where they hadn't been seen in years.

The rivers and the estuaries have a long way to go but there's been a lot of improvement. Towns used to be a allowed to dump untreated waste right into the rivers and manufacturing companies did the same.

Bunker stocks in decline, not in our area.. You can hardly take a ride in your boat an not see acres of bunkers which was not the case 30 years ago. There are so many Bunker we now have more whales then I've ever seen and this past year even the Bluefin, which we haven't seen in 30 years, moved in to take advantage of them.

My point is it's not all doom and gloom and in our area, we made some sacrifices and have come a long way over time and are now reaping the rewards.

[dakota560]

I agree progress has been made. But if you even fished in the 70's and 80's, you'd know things can change for the worse quickly and the bass population did. If you think that can't happen again because bluefins showed up off the Rockaways this year even though the primary spawning grounds of the stock are the most polluted they've ever been, I'd have to disagree with you.

Follow the facts and the facts say recruitment is down most likely because climate change is causing significant run off and more pollutants than ever are choking the Chesapeake turning much of it into a dead zone void of oxygen. Lose recruitment, we'll lose the stock. Exactly why regulations were changed to protect breeders and the spawn. The EEZ helps with that protection and as I stated early on if it were opened up it would turn into a shit show and even with the use of circle hooks more breeders would be killed. We're having one of the best fall runs of big fish and numbers of fish in a very long time, why $&#! with it?

[hammer4reel]

Gerry you are giving anecdotal info .
Isn’t this site NJ fishing not Raritan Bay fishing ?

Most of the state would love to experience the fishery going on in the RB and surrounding area.

While it’s been better than the last few years ( more than likely due to so many fish being released ) it’s not 1/10 of what we had five years ago .

Protecting stocks overall will strengthen both strains of fish .

East of us through New England get both strains .
If the Chessy fish aren’t there All the pressure east for 5 months will be on the Hudson fish .

You almost always are promoting taking more fish thinking it will promote more business for your sponsors .
Yet if a person wants X amount of fish in their freezer and can only keep one at a time he actually would have to fish more trips .

Releasing big breeding fish allows stocks to stay greater allowing more classes of years of fish to be kept .


I see a lot more happy faces seeing people catch these giant fish .
Moderate limits before a collapse is far better than what we will have as has happened in all too many fisheries .

No different than what’s happening with fluke .
Should have pushed for the slot limit instead is status quo.
And probably would even be a four or five fish limit by now . Instead it will be a collapsed fishery everyone’s grand kids get to hear about .

.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry you are giving anecdotal info .
Isn’t this site NJ fishing not Raritan Bay fishing ?

Most of the state would love to experience the fishery going on in the RB and surrounding area.

While it’s been better than the last few years ( more than likely due to so many fish being released ) it’s not 1/10 of what we had five years ago .

Protecting stocks overall will strengthen both strains of fish .

East of us through New England get both strains .
If the Chessy fish aren’t there All the pressure east for 5 months will be on the Hudson fish .

You almost always are promoting taking more fish thinking it will promote more business for your sponsors .
Yet if a person wants X amount of fish in their freezer and can only keep one at a time he actually would have to fish more trips .

Releasing big breeding fish allows stocks to stay greater allowing more classes of years of fish to be kept .


I see a lot more happy faces seeing people catch these giant fish .
Moderate limits before a collapse is far better than what we will have as has happened in all too many fisheries .

No different than what’s happening with fluke .
Should have pushed for the slot limit instead is status quo.
And probably would even be a four or five fish limit by now . Instead it will be a collapsed fishery everyone’s grand kids get to hear about .

.
I base things on what I see not what some talking head in NOAA reports on hypothetical and short term landings and stock assessments.

Any yes this is an NJFishing site, I happen to know Raritan Bay so that's what I talk about. Lots of reports here lately and many other places are saying there's Bass north and south of Manasquan inlet and I don't hear any of those boats complaining about a lack of them.

I don't promote people taking more fish, I promote people keeping their legal limit if they choose to... That's a personal choice not mine and BTW I haven't kept a Striper in several years but that's my choice. To me it's all about access and sensible regulations. Longer seasons with the opportunity to fish for and keep something if you choose to is what I want... It promotes our sport and everyone benefits in that scenario, including our sponsors... And as far as our sponsors, do you actually think they want to put a resource at risk that their long term livelihood depends on? I think I speak for most with my thoughts above about access and thankfully there are a lot more conservation leaning patrons and Captains then there was in the days when people like me (and likely you) killed everything that came on the boat.


I'm not against protecting stocks either, I just don't feel that some of short term information gathered is reliable enough to make punitive short term knee jerk decisions on recreational regulations... The fishery has to be studied over time and as mentioned before this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Fluke is finally something we agree on, we should have a slot and be protecting the female breeders. The work that the SSFFF did in a long term and thorough size/sex study convinced me of that.

And since you called me out, you're almost always talking doom and gloom and I think recreationals should be allowed to reap the rewards when they've sacrificed in the past to rebuild a fishery for the future. Stripers being one example and Sea Bass being another.

[dakota560]

Fluke is finally something we agree on, we should have a slot and be protecting the female breeders. The work that the SSFFF did in a long term and thorough size/sex study convinced me of that.

Gerry in your opinion why did the work you referenced that SSFFF did not convince marine fisheries of the same. And where does that effort currently stand?

[hammer4reel]

I base things on what I see not what some talking head in NOAA reports on hypothetical and short term landings and stock assessments.

Any yes this is an NJFishing site, I happen to know Raritan Bay so that's what I talk about. Lots of reports here lately and many other places are saying there's Bass north and south of Manasquan inlet and I don't hear any of those boats complaining about a lack of them.

I don't promote people taking more fish, I promote people keeping their legal limit if they choose to... That's a personal choice not mine and BTW I haven't kept a Striper in several years but that's my choice. To me it's all about access and sensible regulations. Longer seasons with the opportunity to fish for and keep something if you choose to is what I want... It promotes our sport and everyone benefits in that scenario, including our sponsors... And as far as our sponsors, do you actually think they want to put a resource at risk that their long term livelihood depends on? I think I speak for most with my thoughts above about access and thankfully there are a lot more conservation leaning patrons and Captains then there was in the days when people like me (and likely you) killed everything that came on the boat.


I'm not against protecting stocks either, I just don't feel that some of short term information gathered is reliable enough to make punitive short term knee jerk decisions on recreational regulations... The fishery has to be studied over time and as mentioned before this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Fluke is finally something we agree on, we should have a slot and be protecting the female breeders. The work that the SSFFF did in a long term and thorough size/sex study convinced me of that.

And since you called me out, you're almost always talking doom and gloom and I think recreationals should be allowed to reap the rewards when they've sacrificed in the past to rebuild a fishery for the future. Stripers being one example and Sea Bass being another.

First off I don’t quote some talking head or stock assessments .
Based on real fishing reports as well as fishing myself .
As well as following the big VA winter fishery reports .
While some people think catching a few stripers on a trip is great fishing .
Others of us who actually catch a lot of fish have watched the decline .
.
While you in this post said keeping a legal limit is all you preach that BS as your always saying the limits aren’t in favor of fisherman .
I also feel it’s fine to keep legal limits , but don’t see a need to keep every fish I catch .
Right now boats are experiencing a different fishery where they get to enjoy catching fish , with still plenty hitting the table .

You may think the rest of the states fishery is fine because your still catching what you always did , but many aren’t catching what they are used to .
.
I’m not preaching gloom and doom , just stating I see a difference that was posted here .

A 10 fish day to me sucks , it’s far from good fishing

I’m glad that marine fishery actually got rid of the 2 fish at 28” and started to help the stocks rebound .
While others posted southern states didn't change their regs , that's not correct .
Most went to a 35 or 36 maximum fish , where NJ was a little less aggressive and went with 38” .

Hopefully just a few years of throwing back all these big cows we actually see a reward that’s ten fold ..

.

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[dales529]

No matter where you stand on this what seems to happen that even when everyone on this thread has the same goal small differences of opinion get blown up the whole thread goes south (pun intended).
Some ask why for hire capts don't chime in here more often? This thread was started by a well respected for hire captain with a simple question. While that question certainly can be debated it's lost in the usual recreational fisherman shoot yourself in the foot mentality.
Argue amongst each other while a larger entity makes your decisions without your input. How's that working for you!

Dan glad you catch so much and release more. Stripers are abundant from Barnegat to Raritan Bay ocean side with bunker galore . Can't deny that.
Gerry is right on his points as well as Tom.

Don't think anyone disagrees with protecting the spawn.
Again we fight amongst ourselves, split on which advocate groups to support, take individual paths expecting change rather than a united front.
Stripers got the recreational fisherman noise and dollars/ fluke and other species well not so much.


Jmho

[dakota560]

While others posted southern states didn't change their regs , that's not correct.

Dan I believe your comment might be directed to one of my previous posts. If so, I didn't say the southern states didn't change their striper regulations, I said they're less restrictive than northern states protecting the large breeders. But I inadvertently posted regulations pertaining to the Chesapeake Bay, not their coastal regulations so thanks for pointing that out.

So here's my understanding of coastal regulations for Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina.

Maryland:
Ocean side is comparable to northern states. Season is all year, one fish limit between 28" and 35", no fishing in EEZ and non-offset hooks when using bait.

For coastal Virginia Chesapeake Bay Region you need a PHD to understand the regulations. As follows:

Virginia:
In Virginia's portion of the Chesapeake Bay the seasons are as follows:

Coastal: January 1 through March 31 and May 16 through December 31

Minimum Size Limit: 28 inches

Maximum Size Limit: 36 inches

Possession Limit: one per person

Spring Season: May 16 through June 15

Minimum Size Limit: 20 inches

Maximum Size Limit: 28 inches

Possession Limit: one per person

Fall Season: October 4 through December 31

Minimum Size Limit: 20 inches

Maximum Size Limit: 36 inches

Possession Limit: one per person

Other restrictions:

You may not combine possession limits when seasons overlap or you fish in multiple jurisdictions.
Gaffing striped bass or attempting to gaff striped bass is illegal in Virginia marine waters.
Federal water striped bass regulations: Atlantic Ocean waters beyond the three mile limit are closed to the taking and possession of striped bass all year.
Potomac River striped bass regulations: Different regulations apply in the Potomac River. These areas are subject to the rules and regulations of the Potomac River Fisheries Commission, P.O. Box 9, Colonial Beach, VA 22443, (804) 224-7148; (800) 266-3904; For further information on PRFC rules contact PRFC directly or visit PRFC.

North Carolina:

Also 28" to 35" year round, 1 fish possession with circle hooks. Not sure what there stance is on EEZ but assume the same as other states.

Dan is that your understanding? The only concern I would then have is what kind of protection do these big breeders have from commercial harvest. Any idea if those regulations were changed. The unfortunate part of commercial operations is once it's in the net, it's most likely going to die whether retained or not. If commercial operators continue netting these big breeders being released recreationally, even if not retained and brought to market, you have to question how many are killed in that process.

[dakota560]

Gerry in your opinion why did the work you referenced that SSFFF did not convince marine fisheries of the same. And where does that effort currently stand?

Gerry would still appreciate an answer to my question about why SSFFF findings didn't convince NMFS to change the regulations and where those efforts stand today.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry would still appreciate an answer to my question about why SSFFF findings didn't convince NMFS to change the regulations and where those efforts stand today.

I don't know Tom...

[AndyS]

I just checked the Belmar surf cam, 11/14/21 - 9am- air temp 35* : literally a city of boats.
How these fish come back every year is amazing considering the unrelenting pounding they take. I read all the poaching reports in the spring, and these are just the people caught, I am sure there are hundreds that get away with taking over the limit. Do all the math and science you like, still surprised we haven't seen a total crash in these fish stocks, maybe many pass outside the 3 mile limit.

[dakota560]

Looked at commercial regulations for North Carolina, Maryland and Virginia. NC has a 28" minimum in the ocean with lower minimums for various estuaries. Maryland has a variety of seasons based on the type of commercial fishing, hook and line, gill net, haul net, pound net etc.. Virginia seems to be as follows:

4 VAC 20-252-140. Commercial seasons, areas, and size limits.

Except as may be adjusted pursuant to 4VAC20-252-150, the open commercial striped bass fishing seasons, areas, and applicable size limits shall be as follows:

1. In the Chesapeake Bay area, the open commercial season shall be from January 16 through December 31, inclusive. The minimum size limit shall be 18 inches total length during the periods of January 16 through December 31. The maximum size limit shall be 28 inches from March 15 through June 15.

2. In the coastal area, the open commercial season shall be January 16 through December 31, inclusive. The minimum size limit shall be 28 inches total length.

Gill netting probably has a 100% mortality release percentage for undesirable fish. Any other commercial operation, hundreds if not thousands of fish are corralled in nets and then the sortation process begins for the desired market fish. Size minimums and maximums in the world of commercial fishing are oxy-morons, they really mean nothing other than the fish which are allowed to be brought back to the docks. As far as mortality is concerned, they do very little to nothing protecting the breeders the recreational regulations are intended to protect.

The reality of fisheries management is with any fishery with a commercial presence, any benefits gained by recreational measures will be negated by the incredible amount of waste and release mortality levels with operations using nets. It can't be controlled and just about every fish caught in a net will end up dead being brought to market or thrown back dead. Commercial hook and line is a different story but a vast majority of commercial operations employ some type of net technology.

So the reality I would argue is many of the larger fish being released in northern states are at risk of being killed in the commercial operations of the southern states once those schools migrate pass our area. No different than the discussion we had earlier about where all the spike weakfish ended up every year and why millions of fish seemed to never return the following spring as well as why recreational anglers releasing millions of summer flounder a year under 18" or 19" inches are simply setting the table for those fish to be harvested or killed during their offshore migration in the fall by the highly efficient commercial sector.

Personally I'd rather see closed seasons commercially to protect the spawn, changes in fishing regulations, mesh sizes etc. to mitigate release mortality numbers which are an incredible waste of every stock and implement a keep what you catch policy for commercial operations to eliminate mortality levels associated with hygrading or selective harvest.

When you have ten or more states targeting striped bass year round, commercial operations for an inshore species that can cause tremendous harm to the fishery and major environmental issues in the primary spawning grounds of the stock, it's amazing the stock has recovered as well as it has.
But if recruitment levels don't improve, that recovery will be short lived.

[dakota560]

I don't know Tom...

Gerry thanks for your reply. Seems to me if SSFFF's work 4 or 5 years ago was so stellar, it should have passed Peer Review and be currently used in NMFS models managing the summer flounder stock based on gender as much as length and weight. The fact it's not is what lead me to ask you the question I did.

The reality of fisheries management is it's not really about fisheries management at all as opposed to economic impacts since all this reports up to the Commerce Department. Decisions in their entirety aren't made base on MSA, stock population, Maximum Sustainable Yield etc, that's truthfully all smoke and mirrors. Decisions are based on politics, economic impacts, and horse trading....period.

If you don't have a seat at the table when those discussions and decisions are being made, regulations will never represent both sectors equally or fairly. That's again why a lobbying effort is so crucial for fair representation and management of the fishery itself.

The only way to cause change in these fisheries is to prove regulations intended to bolster the economy are in fact hurting it and getting politicians, industry members and decision makes in a position where they have to address the truth or bear the consequences from their constituents in shore based communities and Congress.

[Capt Sal]

IMHO several things have turned the tide on the Striped Bass from their absence in the 70s and 80s and the ones that most influenced the turn around are:

- Improved water quality and habitat in fresh water areas where they spawn
- Pushing the Bunker Reduction Boats out past the 3 mile limit
- Closing federal waters to commercial harvest

They say the Stripers stocks were in trouble a few years ago..... Bullshit and if that was the case, how did they rebound so quickly??

Yes we still have some lingering issues in some areas like the Chesapeake Bay but those issues pale in comparison to the problems of the past which I mentioned above.

Having said all the above, I'm all in for sensible conservation on our part when needed but it's not like the short term science and stock assessments are reliable and neither are knee jerk recreational regulations.

This is a marathon, not a sprint !

I thought the Bunker Reduction boats had to stay beyond the Three Mile Line ?

[Gerry Zagorski]

I thought the Bunker Reduction boats had to stay beyond the Three Mile Line ?

They do here in NJ, not sure about other states.

[dakota560]

Capt Sal, whether they're inside the EEZ or outside it doesn't matter. Cooke Inc. / Omega Protein harvests 26.5% of the total allowable catch for the entire Atlantic Coast from inside the Chesapeake Bay, the primary spawning grounds of stripers, menhaden and multiple other species. God only knows how much by catch mortality in the process succumbs to their greed. They harvest over 70% of the entire quota which I believe exceeds 200 million metric tons! Their nets can stretch as long as 3,500 yards, six city blocks long.

These are reduction boats. They're an international Canadian based company, sell most of their menhaden catch to salmon farms in Canada who in turn export farm raised salmon back to the US so we can put our own natural fisheries out of business. They also produce fish oil pills and fertilizer.

The most important forage fish supporting countless stocks up and down the entire eastern seaboard and one company, international no less, basically corners the market while repeatedly ignoring regulatory measures in place intended to protect the resource. Damage to other stocks and fisheries is unquantifiable yet palms get greased and rules get broken.

Read the articles in the attached links.

https://shoredailynews.com/headlines/fisheries-regulator-worried-about-omega-protein-exceeding-quota/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/local-opinions/its-time-to-take-politics-out-of-fisheries/2020/01/17/cff4a68c-364f-11ea-9541-9107303481a4_story.html