The Storm That Ends It ?

[Gumada]

Could the Cat 1 that’s heading up the coast offshore be the one that drives the fluke out ? It’s happened in years past. Hope not....

[Bigadam119]

It seems kind of early for a storm to push all the fluke out. I’ve seen it happen with storms in September before. You may be right but I’d guess it’s not

[dales529]

Regardless of storms have always had trips with full boat limits 2nd to 3rd week in Sept. Have a trip this year Sept 7 and 14 and expect the same results. GO Fishing. Can it happen sure does it always NO!

[Gerry Zagorski]

It’s not over till we say it’s over 😜

All kidding aside I think we’ll still have Fluke until mid September and the best is yet to come.

[Gumada]

I’m hoping for the best !

[tautog]

Won't end it. Maybe push some fish out, but I can catch fish in the river and bay until early October every year at least as a small boater. Find the peanuts and snappers and there will be packs of fluke under them. Usually catch my last Manasquan River fluke the first week in November drifting clams for stripers.

[Rocky]

Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???....Hell No!

Put on your slicker, get the hell out there and wet those lines boys.... Make America proud!

[Gumada]

So it seems I was only one heave off. Fluking dropped off of the table after the last. Now we are faced with nothing worth burning fuel.

I’m not anti commercial fishing, however if there is a market, that species suffers a catastrophe. It’s fished to exhaustion and then they move on to a species that the recreational fisherman nursed back to health. Prove me wrong !

As my parents said “I’m sick and tired”

[bulletbob]

So it seems I was only one heave off. Fluking dropped off of the table after the last. Now we are faced with nothing worth burning fuel.

I’m not anti commercial fishing, however if there is a market, that species suffers a catastrophe. It’s fished to exhaustion and then they move on to a species that the recreational fisherman nursed back to health. Prove me wrong !

As my parents said “I’m sick and tired”

Won't end either, when a sickly looking 13 inch sea bass on ice with milky white eyes and gray gills fetches $20... Jeez most of my life you couldn't give Blues or Porgies away, now I see them up here, 250 miles from the ocean, and people snap them up at big prices...

[Jigman13]

Back of the bay (Raritan) is still STACKED in some places... it's been lights out fishing for me the last two weeks after Ida's run-off subsided. Once the water cleared up and became clear again the peanuts, spearing and mullets (plus snappers) are paved in the back--shoals of bait. Guess what's under it all?

Been getting minimum 2 keepers an outing and had a few limits to 21".

[dakota560]

Ocean fish have started the off shore migration to their wintering grounds, right in line with earlier departures we've all seen as the trend over the last decade. Are there still fish in bays, absolutely but the main biomass has started their migration. It's biological, they have about as much choice as salmon not returning to the same river they were born in. Somehow, it's imprinted and when the switch flips, they're on their way back out east so they can be netted in the process of spawning. Completely asinine regulations in a fishery where of the millions of eggs produced by females every year, in most years less than one fish will survive per mature female yet we continue harvesting during the spawn even though recruitment over the last ten years has fallen off the cliff.

Gamada, as far as your comments about commercial and recreational, no need to worry since we have $250 to lobby Washington as a result of Dave's efforts. In all seriousness, fisheries management shouldn't be but is a very politically charged process. The ONLY way to have a voice in that setting is by having a seat at the table and someone with existing relationships at the level decisions are being made who can be hired to be the voice of reason representing the fishery itself and all sectors.

I'm not telling people what to do, it's simply how this process works and how quite frankly the world works. If we don't support the people who support our interests and rights, there's going to be a lot more posts like Gamadas and Bob's and decisions will continue being made without fair and equitable representation.

[dales529]

Obviously you all know where I stand on the fishery and the regulations. Tom, thanks for your efforts as always and I agree completely. I will say that I dont think its time to throw in the towel just yet, we had short life yesterday and 21 Keepers to 6 lbs . Not as good as it was before the 2 storms but definitely worth going until the end of the season! Divers were saying the water clarity on the bottom was crap for days but cleared up Monday / yesterday. GO fishing

[Billfish715]

Fluke fishing at this time of the year is feast or famine for many fishermen. The hard NW winds and certainly the first cold snap coupled with a full moon tide gives a big push to the final migration. There seems to be two movements of fluke as they migrate. Yes, there are still fish in the bait-filled rivers and bays but their biological clocks are ticking and they will have to move out soon.

I've caught fluke while jigging for striped bass in early November but those fish are the outliers and not the norm. As Dakota has been warning, the numbers of fluke are way down. One non scientific observation of mine has been noticing how small the pods of fluke that drop out of their summer haunts are. There was a time when bodies of fluke would pour out along Ambrose Channel. They were bunched together and there were lots of them. Not anymore.

The same was true for the fluke that would drop out of Sandy Hood Bay along the beach, past the Cedars and then offshore. Boats could follow the migrations and fill limits if they could find the larger bodies of fish. Manasquan Inlet was also a place where fluke would slip out in a bunch and either hang out in front of the inlet for a short spell or move south along the beach toward Mantoloking before heading east.

There always seemed to be big bodies of fish moving together as they migrated. Those concentrations are smaller and less widespread these days. The ones that have been in the ocean seem to pick up and move out quickly. Judging from some of my tag returns, the fluke can and do travel several miles in just a few days. If they were on the Axel Carlson on Monday, by Friday they may be off Seaside Park. If they were off Elberon on Saturday, they might be as far as the edge of the Mud Hole by the next weekend.

Again, this is not scientific but only an observation, but there are fewer patches of fluke dropping out and there are fewer fish within each of those patches. There will be one more move by the fish that are still in the rivers and bays but those will be targeted by the local draggers in a week or two. If you don't believe me, cruise around some of your favorite hills and high grounds off the beach and see who is out there dragging and for what.

[Gumada]

I wasn’t throwing in the towel, just venting....

As was said, fishery management shouldn’t be political !

[Jigman13]

There will be one more move by the fish that are still in the rivers and bays but those will be targeted by the local draggers in a week or two. If you don't believe me, cruise around some of your favorite hills and high grounds off the beach and see who is out there dragging and for what.

Question for you here: would more inshore artificial reefs help prevent the inshore draggers from demolishing this last biomass of fish departing late from the back bays and rivers?

[dakota560]

Question for you here: would more inshore artificial reefs help prevent the inshore draggers from demolishing this last biomass of fish departing late from the back bays and rivers?

Jigman,

I know your question was directed to Bill's post but I'd like if you don't mind adding my perspective. Lumps, humps and artificial reefs are temporary staging points fish use to refuel in their long migration east. Migration routes from what I understand are highly predictable and with todays technology one way or another these fish will be found. Personally I think we could add a hundred inshore reefs, none which would offer deep water protection during the annual inshore and offshore migration of this stock. When migrating they school up, highly concentrated and at greater risk. Plus the females are dropping their eggs between September and early November which even more should be drawing attention to the ludicrousy of the regulations.

The commercial sector isn't the problem. Regulations are the problem both in terms of discards and incentivizing the age classes (size fish) being targeted for harvest. Someone explain the logic of harvesting almost exclusively the spawning stock, offering no protection to the spawn while causing discard mortality rates to sky-rocket. The entire balance in the fishery which drove growth has been destroyed and regulations going forward need to re-establish that balance. The changes made to stripers, blackfish, sea bass to protect breeders and protect the spawn are exactly what needs to happen in this fishery. If done right, the fishery wins, commercials will benefit greatly, recreational sector will benefit greatly, the economy will benefit greatly and everyone wins. I'd challenge anyone to name one year-round fishery where the breeding population is targeted for harvest causing historical discard mortality rates in the process while the spawn is left completely unprotected. I truthfully can't think of one.

We continue with the regulations both sectors and the fishery have been handicapped with over the last two decades, the same fate awaits the summer flounder fishery as what happened to the winter flounder fishery.

Three attached charts. First major decline in winter flounder spawning stock which is just another way of saying all mature fish were being harvested with a high percentage females. Second chart, winter flounder recruitment fails as a result, same as it's been failing in this fishery for the same reasons. Third graph, no matter how much fisheries management reduces catch, it's too late because the recruitment strength of the stock which is the strength and future of every fishery, has already been irreparably damaged. What does that sound like?

WE'RE ON THE SAME TRACK WITH THIS FISHERY AND NEED HELP DEMANDING OUR COLLECTIVE VOICES, COMMERCIAL AND RECREATIONAL, BE HEARD OTHERWISE THIS FISHERY SUFFERS THE SAME FATE.

[hammer4reel]

Question for you here: would more inshore artificial reefs help prevent the inshore draggers from demolishing this last biomass of fish departing late from the back bays and rivers?



They know their exact routes to their winter areas .
Fish are easier picking for them now than they were all summer

[Luckyduck]

Spring, fall, wind direction, tide direction,full moon or new moon, a wise man told me once if you feel like fishing fish. You never know how many haircuts you have left. Most important have fun!

[Billfish715]

I don't know how many of you who read the postings and comments were around when the fluke season (which ended when captains stopped fishing for them) extended into October. The old Freddy C could be seen drifting for fluke around the tip of the Hook and on down the beach on Columbus Day before switching over to stripers. But, again, there were more fish to go around back then and it was worth it to the captains to fish for them.

Imagine if fluke were protected during the winter spawning season as Tom has been advocating. It worked for seabass. It's being tried in the Chesapeake estuaries now and the prospects look promising. It takes commitment and it takes a governing body that needs to take its head out of its butt and see what is going on.

[Jigman13]

They know their exact routes to their winter areas .
Fish are easier picking for them now than they were all summer

Understood. Why not pave a path of artificial reefs to the edge? We certainly have enough scrap and crap to sink to make it happen after making it environmentally friendly. Maybe it hinders the bottom dragging? Comms arent going to sacrifice their gear.

My point is, the comms arent going to get suppressed. Theres an insane amount money behind bulk / commercial sales of summer flounder and everyone wants a piece. I dunno. I read all of Dakotas data. I take into consideration all of the valid and invalid opinions, yet I see no resolution in sight. Its difficult to wrap ones head around. Its dizzying. Ultimately, I want fluke to not go the way of blackbacks.

If theres a defined path to their spawning grounds, why not interfere comms with gear wrecking obstacles? Lol. Perhaps my thinking is crude or mundane...

[dakota560]

Understood. Why not pave a path of artificial reefs to the edge? We certainly have enough scrap and crap to sink to make it happen after making it environmentally friendly. Maybe it hinders the bottom dragging? Comms arent going to sacrifice their gear.

My point is, the comms arent going to get suppressed. Theres an insane amount money behind bulk / commercial sales of summer flounder and everyone wants a piece. I dunno. I read all of Dakotas data. I take into consideration all of the valid and invalid opinions, yet I see no resolution in sight. Its difficult to wrap ones head around. Its dizzying. Ultimately, I want fluke to not go the way of blackbacks.

If theres a defined path to their spawning grounds, why not interfere comms with gear wrecking obstacles? Lol. Perhaps my thinking is crude or mundane...

Jigman I think there's an easier answer. Listen to what the data is telling us. The below pie chart was generated from data I requested from the ASSCP which monitors commercial catch for many species. For summer flounder, ~8% of commercial annual catch is harvested in the months September through October, about 10% in the months October through November. Believe September to October are more representative of the primary spawning months but fisheries management can make that determination. Commercial currently and in past received about 60% of the annual allocations, recreational 40%. Those percentages are currently being reconsidered based on New MRIP data but ignore that for now.

What that means is fisheries management is risking the efficacy of the entire spawn and the health of the entire fishery by allowing commercial harvest of approximately 5.4% of total annual harvest in two months. That's the average commercial harvest represents of total combined annual harvest between sectors for those three months over the last decade. Risk the entire fisheries future for approximately 5% of the annual harvest, where is the logic in that management philosophy? Walleye, largemouth and smallmouth, even while stocked, have their spawns protected in freshwater. Catch and release only. Recent regulatory changes were implemented for sea bass, stripers and blackfish to close seasons to protect the spawn along with slot limits to protect the breeders. We need the same regulations incorporated in the management of the summer flounder stock. If the benefits to each sector ultimately depends on the health of the fishery which it does, we need to start putting the fishery before other agendas. The impacts will by default pass on to both sectors and insure the future health of the stock.

Look at the last two charts. Second chart is from marine fisheries comparing new recruits to the weight of the spawning stock. Don't particularly think that comparison is relevant since it ignores gender composition of the spawning stock. Is it 10% females or 90% females? Would certainly need to be known to interpret the results. It's the equivalent of asking someone to guess the value of ten 1 lb. bags filled with paper currency without knowing the denomination of the bills in the bag. 1 dollar bills would have a much different valuation than $100 bills. 90% females versus 40% females would do the same in that comparison. The spawning stock is important to measure, females are equally if not more important and the mature female population of this fishery has declined by 50% between the years 2010 and 2017 due to the misuse of increased recreational size minimums. It really is that simple. The hard part is getting fisheries management to admit their mistake.

The third chart is more relevant, new recruits to mature females in the population. Look what happened between the nineties, the growth year, when we were harvesting significantly more immature fish and the years beyond when commercial mesh sizes were increased (harvest larger fish) and recreational size minimums started being raised. In recent years new recruits, the future of the fishery, in more years than not fell below one new recruit per mature female for a fishery where females produce millions of eggs annually. When we harvested younger immature age classes in the 90's, new recruits being brought into the stock ranged between 1.5 to 2.5 per mature female annually, a material change in the recruitment dynamics of the stock. Its the difference between 30 million new recruits a year and maybe 60 to 70 million new recruits due to harvesting the right age classes and letting the spawning stock spawn to perpetuate the future of this stock. We wouldn't be having any of these discussions if that ratio was comparable to the growth years.

It changed because the regulations caused it to change. Kill the mommies, kill the babies, risk the future of the stock. That's what increased size minimums used to constrain, not manage, recreational harvest did to this fishery. This is a 30-yr relational trend which shouldn't be ignored by the management of this fishery and should be the foundation of why the fishery should be closed to all fishing related activities during the spawn until recruitment levels stabilize and the overall biomass population is rebuilt. It also happens to be the reason why recreational size minimums should revert back to size minimums in place in the nineties to reduce discard mortality statistics and harvest the correct age class fish. A win / win for everyone involved or dependent on this fishery for a living.

We need to be diligent getting these points across and we need representation for that to happen. The cost of representation pales in comparison to the cost of having no voice. Just please remember that when we think about the importance of these fisheries, summer flounder in particular, and what we collectively can do today to insure this fishery is around for our kids and grandchildren.