Sea bass and fluke season extension for party boats?

[porgylber]

I know that I’m drifting off into fantasy land here. However, it would be nice if the powers in charge changed the dates for the fluke and sea bass seasons for party boats in NJ. Sadly, it looks like both will miss significant time at the beginning of the season. (At a minimum). Toss them a bone.Open sea bass fishing in August. Extend the fluke season.
Instead of a bone, I expect an anchor. However it would be the decent thing to do.

[Capt John]

Yea, it would be nice. The entire "for hire" (party and charter guys) are going to take a major hit this season. Oh, and along with anything to do with recreational fishing here in NJ.

Very sad, first Superstorm Sandy destroys the coast and now this...which maybe could have been lessened. Boy, you really have to be tough to live in this state.

I feel very bad for my brothers on the water...another kick in the b***s. When will it end?

Extending the Fluke season is the least they could do for ALL the businesses that will be ravaged by this pandemic. Stay safe and be well.

[PortlyRedhead]

I know that I’m drifting off into fantasy land here. However, it would be nice if the powers in charge changed the dates for the fluke and sea bass seasons for party boats in NJ. Sadly, it looks like both will miss significant time at the beginning of the season. (At a minimum). Toss them a bone.Open sea bass fishing in August. Extend the fluke season.
Instead of a bone, I expect an anchor. However it would be the decent thing to do.

Have you written to your NJ elected officials and to the NJ Marine Fisheries Council about this well-considered idea?

Do you have a sample letter that you could share with NJFishing.com members who could also write to their NJ elected officials and appointed regulators?

[shrimpman steve]

Lengthen the season, Bahahahaha
They are gonna tell you you overfished:p:p

[Irish Jigger]

We will all be off the water soon enough, only a matter of when!!

[Bigadam119]

I agree that they should give the boats a chance to make up the dates at the end of the year. The biggest issue is that there are typically very little fluke to be caught past the 1st or 2nd week in September.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Well, if Super Storm Sandy is any indication as to how Fisheries Management could affect our fishing season, don't count on any liberalization as a result of the virus. Our regulations after Sandy had not changed one bit in spite of a lot fewer people being able to fish for months right after the storm and even into the following spring as repairs were being made to marinas and boats.

[pectoralfin]

Good idea, but don't forget that many private boat owners have greatly reduced income which put fishing down to the bottom of the list and should have an extended season also. Which leads me to another rant. Having been to the scoping meetings, NMFS, in my opinion, has become a typical stereotype government agency where they will listen to you and then do what they want anyway. Also when you have paid representatives that get paid (40,000$ or so), they are going to "go with the flow" so that they continue to get reappointed and earn their paychecks. I know that there are many more qualified people who would do the same job for much less and do a much better job representing us.

[RBC67]

Wouldn't hold my breath they want us gone IMO

[hammer4reel]

Hopefully this has passed by the time fluke season opens .
Def a different world we live in today .
Hopefully they actually have a vaccine come out to not deal with this at this level again .

[dakota560]

Some form of relief should be adopted to hep both the commercial and recreational sectors for not just sea bass and fluke but all fisheries under management. No different than a 2 trillion stimulus plan directed at specific industry segments. Something should be done, which unlike the stimulus package, would require zero capital just access to the resource or temporary changes to the regulations. The price per pound for summer flounder which typically is $3 - $4 lb range during Lent has fallen to .50 cents since no markets foreign or domestic exists. Consideration has been given and possibly approved to increase trip limits to assist operators reduce trip costs and get by. Quotas won't be changed, just the harvest guidelines. Some will benefit, some will not but it's an effort to address the impacts of this hideous virus and the damage it's inflicted to the commercial fishing sector. Personally I'm in favor of such a move, now's not the time to fight people who are trying to feed their families and stay in business. BUT recreational will be hit just as hard, if not harder, if the season openers are impacted by the current health crisis. Concession need to be made to counter those risks, extended seasons, bonus fish, reduce size minimums for a few months, something to help people and business survive until this crisis passes. Turning a blind eye is the equivalent of using what will arguably be one of the largest health crisis this world has ever experienced as an opportunity to get funding for the Kennedy Center in the stimulus package. Time for Congress, Federal and State governments to stop playing partisan politics and put the safety of the American people, both physical and financial, before political agendas. Protect people's livelihood and by default you protect the economy.

[dakota560]

Hopefully this has passed by the time fluke season opens .
Def a different world we live in today .
Hopefully they actually have a vaccine come out to not deal with this at this level again .

Danny hope you and your family are safe. Even if it doesn't pass before the season opener, measures should be discussed now and be ready to act on. Right now we're all just focused on the cause, no one is truly discussing the effects and aftermath when this virus subsides. The aftermath will be brutal so even if the social distancing order is liberalized before the season opener which I believe it might, the consequences of 16 million people and rising numbers filing for unemployment, economies and industries being completely shut down will be felt for a much longer period of time. If people can't pay their rents, mortgages, student loans, auto loans or put food on the table for their families, they're not going fishing. Contingency plans should be in the works because I assure you they're going to be needed some the summer.

[Gumada]

The ink is already dry on the statement. Stock has been Overfished and over fishing IS occurring....

[dakota560]

The ink is already dry on the statement. Stock has been Overfished and over fishing IS occurring....

Which is precisely why everyone should be asking the question I've been arguing for the last three years which is why did commercial quotas receive a 104% increase between 2017 and 2019 when the fishery was crashing over at minimum the last decade. It was an effort to increase quota for the commercial sector through the use of phantom MRIP data that prevented the same increase recreationally before the hammer falls in 2021.

A lawsuit filed against Department of Commerce, NOAA, NMFS, ASMFC and MAFMC siting gross and intentional mismanagement of the fishery in direct violation of National Standard 4 under FMP is the only way this changes. Make no mistake, 2020 will be a brutal season with the amount of fish harvested this past winter offshore commercially and 2021 is going to involve further restrictive regulations to the recreational community if the recreational community doesn't get off it's ass and join forces for their fair share of the resource and insist we revert back to regulations that promoted substantial growth in the fishery during the nineties. Harvesting 95% females both recreationally and commercially, discard numbers beyond comprehension, commercial harvest during the spawn and devastating the only remaining biomass offshore during the winter months is as insane a management philosophy of a stock as any I've ever seen. The people responsible should all be removed from the Commission, Council and Commerce Departments and replaced with industry representatives focused on managing the fishery for the long-term growth and sustainability as opposed to personal agendas.

[Gumada]

Dakota, fully agree. I think we as fisherman need to change tactics. Obviously they ignore any scientific data, no matter how much sense it makes. That leaves only one conclusion, it’s about money, whether that is direct funds or political favors down the road. In my humble view there is only one thing politicians like more than money, that is VOTES. The RFA has done a great job, however until all the rec’s (in the Tri-state area) ban together and let the politicians know they will NOT be in office unless they fix this nothing will be done. Just my HO.

P.S. Dakota, I have learned more reading your post than I knew my entire life. Much appreciated

[dakota560]

Dakota, fully agree. I think we as fisherman need to change tactics. Obviously they ignore any scientific data, no matter how much sense it makes. That leaves only one conclusion, it’s about money, whether that is direct funds or political favors down the road. In my humble view there is only one thing politicians like more than money, that is VOTES. The RFA has done a great job, however until all the rec’s (in the Tri-state area) ban together and let the politicians know they will NOT be in office unless they fix this nothing will be done. Just my HO.

P.S. Dakota, I have learned more reading your post than I knew my entire life. Much appreciated

I've learned a lot in my journey over the last three years with Dave's (Dales529) assistance and others. The conflict of interest in salt water fisheries management starts with the fact it reports up under the Secretary of Commerce as opposed to the Interior Department, something someone on one of these threads pointed out some time ago. Science is not only acknowledged it's embraced when it favors the commercial sector. It's only when it favors the recreational sector it becomes less relevant. That's an issue when public resources are being managed. Fair and Equitable allocation to all fisherman based on National Standard 4 of the original FMP are just words if they're not factored into policy decisions made by marine fisheries, the Commission and Council. Management decisions are not being made based on what the data science is working hard to collect and develop, the data is being manipulated and there's outright lies being told to support or rationalize decisions the Commission and Council are making. Virtually none of those decisions hold up under the definition of Fair and Equitable under the National Standards FMP is intended to guard against.

Somehow, someway I'm going to organize a lawsuit against the federal government, ASMFC and MAFMC and this will be decided through the judicial process. We need funding but we need scale, meaning fisherman, fishing organizations, vendors, small businesses, equipment manufacturers, boating industry etc to access our fair share of a public resource. This isn't about recreational against commercial as they deserve the same rights to harvest a public resource as the recreational sector does. This is an effort to correct the gross mismanagement of a resource with a bias for one sector's interests over another.

[Capt Sal]

I would donate to that!! It is the only thing that could work.

[Rocky]

I've learned a lot in my journey over the last three years with Dave's (Dales529) assistance and others. The conflict of interest in salt water fisheries management starts with the fact it reports up under the Secretary of Commerce as opposed to the Interior Department, something someone on one of these threads pointed out some time ago. Science is not only acknowledged it's embraced when it favors the commercial sector. It's only when it favors the recreational sector it becomes less relevant. That's an issue when public resources are being managed. Fair and Equitable allocation to all fisherman based on National Standard 4 of the original FMP are just words if they're not factored into policy decisions made by marine fisheries, the Commission and Council. Management decisions are not being made based on what the data science is working hard to collect and develop, the data is being manipulated and there's outright lies being told to support or rationalize decisions the Commission and Council are making. Virtually none of those decisions hold up under the definition of Fair and Equitable under the National Standards FMP is intended to guard against.

Somehow, someway I'm going to organize a lawsuit against the federal government, ASMFC and MAFMC and this will be decided through the judicial process. We need funding but we need scale, meaning fisherman, fishing organizations, vendors, small businesses, equipment manufacturers, boating industry etc to access our fair share of a public resource. This isn't about recreational against commercial as they deserve the same rights to harvest a public resource as the recreational sector does. This is an effort to correct the gross mismanagement of a resource with a bias for one sector's interests over another.

You have been a great voice and source of information for many of us on here, and I thank you for that Tom. The hours you spend collecting data and writing about it is mind boggling. Not to mention the money out of your own pocket that you spend to travel to other states to attend meetings fighting for us recs. I am glad you are on our side sir.

[june181901]

Does anyone know if a party boat owner or a charter boat owner can apply for these small business loans?
If they can that might save some of the owners from bankruptcy.

[dakota560]

Does anyone know if a party boat owner or a charter boat owner can apply for these small business loans?
If they can that might save some of the owners from bankruptcy.

June,

Look at the article on the attached link.

https://wwd.com/fashion-news/fashion-scoops/how-to-apply-small-business-loan-coronavirus-stimulus-package-1203555592/

Like everything else government related, the devil is in the details. It sounds from reading this briefly there's a few options available to small business which I would think based on the definition of small businesses (fewer than 500 employees), party and for hire charters would qualify. There's loans, grants and loans that qualify for forgiveness dependent on how the funds are used as is the case with the Paycheck Protection Program. In the case of any loan forgiveness, you should also consult with your accountant to determine if loans the result of this stimulus package forgiven are considered "Cancellation of Debt" or what is referred to as "COD Income" and subject to tax at a later date. Meaning if someone lends you $100k and subsequently forgives you repaying it, typically that $100k becomes taxable to you as ordinary income.

There's a link in the attached article of participating banks you can search by state. I would recommend contacting one of them for more details and before committing to anything I would highly recommend getting your tax accountant and or attorney involved in the process. Devil like I said is always in the details.

Best of luck.....Tom