Striper Controversy Spreading

[Billfish715]

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2019/12/12/words-fisherman-time-let-stripers-be

As you can see, the striper controversy is spreading. The most dangerous comments involve a favorable nod toward a moratorium. It's very obvious that the huge numbers of "big girls/cows" have dwindled lately, yet there are still lots of small fish in the surf and rivers every year. That is encouraging. The decision seems to be about size versus numbers/quality versus quantity. The fishing community has to decide, before others do it for us.

[Ry609]

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2019/12/12/words-fisherman-time-let-stripers-be

As you can see, the striper controversy is spreading. The most dangerous comments involve a favorable nod toward a moratorium. It's very obvious that the huge numbers of "big girls/cows" have dwindled lately, yet there are still lots of small fish in the surf and rivers every year. That is encouraging. The decision seems to be about size versus numbers/quality versus quantity. The fishing community has to decide, before others do it for us.

I'm usually catch and release unless I don't think the fish has a chance, that's my own rule I impose on myself, especially in the spring. I can see the other side of it though where people want to be able to have the choice to keep or not.

Hope there is a middle ground somewhere that allows for the species to rebound and let people keep a couple for the dinner table.

[AndyS]

Kinda like shooting yourself in the foot.

[Reel Class]

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2019/12/12/words-fisherman-time-let-stripers-be

As you can see, the striper controversy is spreading. The most dangerous comments involve a favorable nod toward a moratorium. It's very obvious that the huge numbers of "big girls/cows" have dwindled lately, yet there are still lots of small fish in the surf and rivers every year. That is encouraging. The decision seems to be about size versus numbers/quality versus quantity. The fishing community has to decide, before others do it for us.

There are more short and schoolie bass around now, specifically in our area, then I can remember in my 43 years. You can almost catch them anywhere during the "season" and at times, it's not even fair. I've had 20-30 fish HOURS this past season, on the inside, outside, wherever, well into the month of December.

Yes there has been a drop in bigger fish being caught, but as we've discussed many times, migratory routes have changed drastically due to bait staying offshore so a good amount of those true jumbo spawners have hung well off the beach during their migrations.

I think the new regs will help even more and will allow for all of these little fish to grow up and make even more of them.

Gotta love the abundance of the little fish!

[Capt Sal]

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2019/12/12/words-fisherman-time-let-stripers-be

As you can see, the striper controversy is spreading. The most dangerous comments involve a favorable nod toward a moratorium. It's very obvious that the huge numbers of "big girls/cows" have dwindled lately, yet there are still lots of small fish in the surf and rivers every year. That is encouraging. The decision seems to be about size versus numbers/quality versus quantity. The fishing community has to decide, before others do it for us.

Like they said,menhaden have been over fished and that could impact striper population. Thanks again fisheries management and greedy commercial reduction boats. Some people get rich and the rest of us get screwed as usual.

[Billfish715]

Like they said,menhaden have been over fished and that could impact striper population. Thanks again fisheries management and greedy commercial reduction boats. Some people get rich and the rest of us get screwed as usual.
Believe it or not, there seems to be more bunkers than ever. There were some mornings way back in the day when we would ride through tide lines of dead bunkers in Sandy Hook Bay. They were discards from bunker boats that were fishing in the bays. Now, there are bunkers up and down the coast well into the summer.

Nevertheless.......even the fishermen in New England have noticed a big decline in larger bass up there.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Yes a lot more Bunker around our area then I can remember and with them, more whales then I've ever seen. We even have boats dedicated to whale watching now. I don't think Bunker is the issue here, although it's something we need to keep an eye on.... Also looks like Virginia is finally taking some steps to keep the companies like Omega in check https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/feds-put-deadline-on-va-menhaden-harvest-compliance/?fbclid=IwAR1hBJS0L7GRvnpDlK9gPzF-X_vIkrOrg1OWyJb9paGRfwXCKAKpSym4_RE

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

People who push pencils should have no say in the how, where and why. We the people in this industry, that fish daily (or as often as possible ) see things way differently than the pencil pushers. Acres and miles, miles outside of the 3 mile line are a common, daily, weekly occurrence for those who don’t fish within the 3 mile line. To those who fish within the 3 mile line. It seems you just cant accept this. Lastly, as I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period.

[AndyS]

"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit off Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

What about the disappearance of bluefish, maybe too many overloaded burlap sacks ???

[Capt Sal]

"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit of Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

What about the disappearance of bluefish, maybe too many overloaded burlap sacks ???

Was it really that bad? When people catch fish it is a slaughter?The reason they fished it everyday is because they were there! They migrate and then there gone. As far as the burlap sacks full of bluefish it is total bs.That was years ago. People bring ice and only take what they need.As far as posting a picture of a boat with a nice bass ? The guy was probably proud as hell.Do you take pictures of trout in Round Valley? Do you keep any?Come on Andy give us a break.

[fishunt]

"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit of Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

What about the disappearance of bluefish, maybe too many overloaded burlap sacks ???

Very well said! people seem to forget that!

[reely]

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/bahamas-lacking-monitoring-tourist-fishing/

[hammer4reel]

.Wow, pretty negative response about recreational fishermen coming from a recreational fisherman. Most fishermen and hunters love the environment and don’t abuse it. In fact they contribute greatly to its preservation.

Nothing could be further from the truth .
The 10 percent that catch the majority of fish care.
The other 90 percent need to kill every fish they catch.
The need to justify the cost to fish to them is how much they take home.

.the 10% have no issue releasing fish because they know they will catch more and also are just happy to be fishing .

[Gerry Zagorski]

Nothing could be further from the truth .
The 10 percent that catch the majority of fish care.
The other 90 percent need to kill every fish they catch.
The need to justify the cost to fish to them is how much they take home.

.the 10% have no issue releasing fish because they know they will catch more and also are just happy to be fishing .

Sorry Dan - No great surprise but as usual, I respectfully disagree with you...

There are way more people in the last 5 to 10 years that are more conservation minded and concerned about the resource. Education or lack thereof was the problem back then and people thought the resources was endless... I admittedly I was one of those guys who had a burlap bag of Bluefish back in the day, most of which wound up buried in the garden for fertilizer.

I think most deeply care about the resource and I've seen the change. People going out of there way reviving fish they want to release... Will those same people keep a few for the table, sure but not like it they did years ago where everything that was of legal size ended up in the cooler.

The change for me was probably 15 years ago... I caught a beautiful Striper that was over 40 pounds and my personal best.. When we saw that fish laying on the deck, me and my buddy Bill were thinking two different things.

My Adrenalin was off the charts and my first instinct was to take that fish back to the dock, show it off and win the annual marina fishing contest for Stripers and put it on the wall.

Bill was thinking otherwise and shared his thoughts with me about releasing it, along with some encouragement from a local fishing charter captain that was fishing next to us and watched the whole thing go down.. So, I reluctantly put her back in the net and back in the water and we revived her.

On the ride back to the marina after the Adrenalin wore off, I remember thinking to myself how I may have felt seeing that fish laying in the cockpit and how glad I was I released it. It was my decision to do so but that decision may be different for others...

That's my perspective so lets talk about a different one..

Like you, I've got my own boat and can fish whenever I want and I have plenty of access to fresh fish whenever I want. What about the guy who fishes occasionally, maybe on a charter or party boat... He has a choice to make, so what's wrong with him keeping fish? After all, I keep fish occasionally and what I decide to keep over a year of fishing is probably more than he'll keep only going out once or twice a year.

And I've talked about this a lot... What if this fish were a Fluke? Funny how people freak out when they see a dead Striper laying on the deck but a Fluke is fair game. They're both fish and a conservation argument could be made that releasing the Fluke is more important since their stocks are reportedly in more trouble then Stripers.

Having said all of this I have 2 main concerns and what I tend to want to fight for and those are access and the long term health of our fisheries. By access, I mean the right for us to continue to fish for as many days as possible and at least be able to keep something. I'll trade lower bag limits to have the opportunity to fish more days. As far as the long term health of our fisheries, I think more and more our recreational fishermen get that and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to keep things in check.

So I guess my main points here are we need to be careful to respect and not pass judgment on other people's perspectives since they're situations and opinions to keep or not keep as fish are not the same as ours.... That however should not be at the expense of the fishery, it's everyone's duty to protect the resource and balance access with the health of the fishery.

Lastly, and I think something we can all agree on, it's fairly obvious that the current way our fisheries are being managed aren't working for the fish or the fisherman and this needs to change.

[AndyS]

"People bring ice and only take what they need."
I worked deck on a bluefish party boat, you should have seen all the full burlap sacks of fish left behind.

[Gerry Zagorski]

"People bring ice and only take what they need."
I worked deck on a bluefish party boat, you should have seen all the full burlap sacks of fish left behind.

Agreed and a total waste of the resource but you're beating a dead horse here Andy... How many years ago was that and do you see that going on now?

Another question for you.... Will you ever keep another fish? I think probably not a Striper, at least not a big Striper but my guess is you'd keep a Tuna or a Fluke. If you do, that's you're choice and I don't pass judgement on you for doing that and in turn you shouldn't pass judgment on others for their personal choices.

Now let's go to the extreme... If someone likes to fish but is a conservation minded, the science says that one out of every 10 Stripers caught and released winds up dead. Therefore, the person who caught and released 10, consumed the same amount of resource as a guy who kept 1 and the same as the guy who went to the fish market and bought 1. So what are we to do, stop fishing and or not consume any fish at all??

Yes an extreme example but as long as there are fish in the ocean they are a resource and we should be given access to them. I'm not saying waste them...We should be able to keep and eat them or catch and release them for sport based on our own personal preferences and within the law. If you like fish but not fishing, you should be able to buy them at the market.

If not, than maybe we should turn this site into www.NJPETA.com :rolleyes:

[TAB95]

"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit of Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

What about the disappearance of bluefish, maybe too many overloaded burlap sacks ???

Well said Andy.

[hammer4reel]

Sorry Dan - No great surprise but as usual, I respectfully disagree with you...

There are way more people in the last 5 to 10 years that are more conservation minded and concerned about the resource. Education or lack thereof was the problem back then and people thought the resources was endless... I admittedly I was one of those guys who had a burlap bag of Bluefish back in the day, most of which wound up buried in the garden for fertilizer.

I think most deeply care about the resource and I've seen the change. People going out of there way reviving fish they want to release... Will those same people keep a few for the table, sure but not like it they did years ago where everything that was of legal size ended up in the cooler.

The change for me was probably 15 years ago... I caught a beautiful Striper that was over 40 pounds and my personal best.. When we saw that fish laying on the deck, me and my buddy Bill were thinking two different things.

My Adrenalin was off the charts and my first instinct was to take that fish back to the dock, show it off and win the annual marina fishing contest for Stripers and put it on the wall.

Bill was thinking otherwise and shared his thoughts with me about releasing it, along with some encouragement from a local fishing charter captain that was fishing next to us and watched the whole thing go down.. So, I reluctantly put her back in the net and back in the water and we revived her.

On the ride back to the marina after the Adrenalin wore off, I remember thinking to myself how I may have felt seeing that fish laying in the cockpit and how glad I was I released it. It was my decision to do so but that decision may be different for others...

That's my perspective so lets talk about a different one..

Like you, I've got my own boat and can fish whenever I want and I have plenty of access to fresh fish whenever I want. What about the guy who fishes occasionally, maybe on a charter or party boat... He has a choice to make, so what's wrong with him keeping fish? After all, I keep fish occasionally and what I decide to keep over a year of fishing is probably more than he'll keep only going out once or twice a year.

And I've talked about this a lot... What if this fish were a Fluke? Funny how people freak out when they see a dead Striper laying on the deck but a Fluke is fair game. They're both fish and a conservation argument could be made that releasing the Fluke is more important since their stocks are reportedly in more trouble then Stripers.

Having said all of this I have 2 main concerns and what I tend to want to fight for and those are access and the long term health of our fisheries. By access, I mean the right for us to continue to fish for as many days as possible and at least be able to keep something. I'll trade lower bag limits to have the opportunity to fish more days. As far as the long term health of our fisheries, I think more and more our recreational fishermen get that and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to keep things in check.

So I guess my main points here are we need to be careful to respect and not pass judgment on other people's perspectives since they're situations and opinions to keep or not keep as fish are not the same as ours.... That however should not be at the expense of the fishery, it's everyone's duty to protect the resource and balance access with the health of the fishery.

Lastly, and I think something we can all agree on, it's fairly obvious that the current way our fisheries are being managed aren't working for the fish or the fisherman and this needs to change.
Actually if you read your own post , you wrote the same thing I said.
You wanted to keep everything (as most of us did ) until you started to catch more fish .
It changes from wanting to catch a fish , to catching a limit , to how fast you can catch a limit , to how many limits you can catch , to man I just want a nice day on the waterv( because you will catch fish .
Too many guys think they need to feed their neighborhood .
And it’s not just here .
I watch when we go To Alaska, guys bringing back 4-500 pounds of fish .
Tracey and I each bring back 50, and that’s too much.
Tell the charter your fishing you will releasing fish thry are dumb founded.
Due to that thinking bag limits and seasons there are getting drastically cut.
The mentality of getting your money’s worth out of a trip is taking opportunity on the water away, not adding to it .

Reasonable bag limits should have been put into effect before there were issues .
Look how many years we could keep 8 fish , now we pray they keep it at 3 and we don’t get cut more .

Just having extra days doesn’t keep guys in business longer either .as less people show up on the boats unless it’s a crazy bite .
Only hard core guys spend the money for 1 big bite , it’s not for the masses extending the seasons.
.

.

[Reel Class]

"People bring ice and only take what they need."
I worked deck on a bluefish party boat, you should have seen all the full burlap sacks of fish left behind.

What year was this Andy? What boat did you work on?

[Reel Class]

I'm with Gerry also on this. Many more people are conservation minded now. Since I haven't had a boat in 18 months, my perspective has also changed quite a bit. I've caught THOUSANDS of stripers since the summer of 2018, and I have harvested 4 of them, of course legally. Now, I only take what I want and most of the time that's none, or one to two fish (and it's occasionally!) whether it's fluke, seabass, tog when in season, triggers, etc. There's something great about safely releasing a fish rather than seeing it laying on the deck bleeding out.

Yes I was one of those charter guys that had deck shots and coolers filled with dead fish, and believe me there's nothing wrong with that if it's done within the confines of law and if the charter chooses to do so/utilize the fish properly - but when you see things from a different lens your perspective changes quite a bit. Just my $.02!

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit off Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

So you’re telling us this big school of Stripers sat off LBI for 2 months and every single fish was caught? Was that because these fish winter off LBI and don’t migrate any further south, new one for me. Try again.

[Capt Sal]

"People bring ice and only take what they need."
I worked deck on a bluefish party boat, you should have seen all the full burlap sacks of fish left behind.

Andy i am not picking on you it just that it did happen but years ago.It is also the job of the mate and capt. to tell the people only keep what you need.Years ago we would give the unwanted blues to the mates and they would sell them at the dock. Things change with educating sportsmen. I can count on one hand how many stripers i killed in the last few years.They went to the farmer who lets me deer hunt his property.Dock shots of piles of dead fish suck!!
I was guilty of this years ago but stopped.Take action shots and releases.I agree taking pictures of a pile of dead stripers with there throats cut is shooting yourself in the foot!

[reason162]

And I've talked about this a lot... What if this fish were a Fluke? Funny how people freak out when they see a dead Striper laying on the deck but a Fluke is fair game.

It's bc for better or worse, people look at big stripers as more gamefish than meatfish. That's not a bad thing...and it's an opportunity for the charter industry to capitalize on.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but...if there's one species we have in the northeast that's akin to tarpon, it's striped bass. And managing for abundance is the best hope for charter/party boat captains in the long run. More fish, more BIG fish = more participation. No one is going fishing if it's a struggle to catch "keepers." People want that legitimate shot of a 40, 50+ lber.

And if you mount a couple gopros on the boat, provide your clients with decent footage of the fight and release of trophy stripers (sooo easy to do in 2020)...my prediction is NO ONE will be complaining about an empty freezer.

That's not what drives the tarpon fishery in Fl, and it shouldn't be what's driving striper fishing up here. People pay for striper charters to break their PBs and make memories, not to fill the freezer. The sooner party/charter boat captains realize this the sooner they can start pushing the right policies to save and grow their business.

[bulletbob]

So you’re telling us this big school of Stripers sat off LBI for 2 months and every single fish was caught? Was that because these fish winter off LBI and don’t migrate any further south, new one for me. Try again.

I realize you guys fish everyday, and I accept the fact that you know your business VERY well. Much better than the majority on this forum, myself included of course.. The "every single fish" caught that was posted earlier was indeed a bit of hyperbole, but he is correct in his assertion .

LOCAL fish populations, even large ones, can indeed be "wiped out
for lack of a better term, by recreational fishing in the modern age..

Its been happening a long time.. I have personally witnessed it, and its well documented in both fresh and salt water.. Thinking it can't happen because "salt water" is short sighted thinking.. No ,rec fishing isn't going to drive a salt water fish species into extinction I understand that, but it can and has decimated large populations on well known and heavily pressured structure and /or habitat .. Times have changed.

Todays anglers have equipment, time, skills, information and access that was unthinkable 30 years ago... Things have changed , and anglers can do a lot of damage to fish stocks that get heavy commercial and recreational pressure in local areas... bob

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Thanks Bob for clarifying for me, lol. Let’s stick with Stripers here. I’m not the only person who can see beyond the shoreline or a kayak, to 4, 5, 10 or 20 miles offshore, and the miles of Stripers, of all different class sizes. Plain and simple, the migration tracks, even YOY, are much different for many types of fish we have access to here in NJ. What the majority see and what people in the business see are totally different. Believe half of what you see and less of what you hear.

[hammer4reel]

Anyone fishing the Hudson strain of striped bass knows they are in great shape .
The issue is once they turn the hook they don't have a Hudson tattoo on them .

Not trying to offset catches there because the Chessy fish are hurting would be foolish .

Guys wanting to target bass would flood there because the ocean bite is so bad.


Many guys thought their whole career the ocean bite didn't start till June.
They didn't have to leave the bay .
The ocean fishery in April and May was phenomenal.

And got no where near the pressure it has today .
.
Putting a slot limit coastwide for stripers between 28" and 36" everything else released would insure a great fishery for our kids.

.boats ,equipment ,tactics have made fisherman a highly polished machine.
We can hurt a fishery more than anytime in the past.

.

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

All the pressure you see are the weekend warriors. Anyone who is out during the week can attest there is a drastic decline in boats & fishing. Same holds true for Fluke. Factor in boat size, weather and if the fish bite, the pressure is even less, no matter how many boats and fisherman you can count. You can have a million dollar boat and all the electronics you want, it doesn’t change the fact that during the fall migration south, 3 to 50 miles offshore and miles long and wide, there are many different size class fish that are untouchable by recreational guys.

[bulletbob]

Anyone fishing the Hudson strain of striped bass knows they are in great shape .
The issue is once they turn the hook they don't have a Hudson tattoo on them .

Not trying to offset catches there because the Chessy fish are hurting would be foolish .

Guys wanting to target bass would flood there because the ocean bite is so bad.


Many guys thought their whole career the ocean bite didn't start till June.
They didn't have to leave the bay .
The ocean fishery in April and May was phenomenal.

And got no where near the pressure it has today .
.
Putting a slot limit coastwide for stripers between 28" and 36" everything else released would insure a great fishery for our kids.

.boats ,equipment ,tactics have made fisherman a highly polished machine.
We can hurt a fishery more than anytime in the past.

.
Coastwide slot limit makes the most sense,, On several species..

[bulletbob]

All the pressure you see are the weekend warriors. Anyone who is out during the week can attest there is a drastic decline in boats & fishing. Same holds true for Fluke. Factor in boat size, weather and if the fish bite, the pressure is even less, no matter how many boats and fisherman you can count. You can have a million dollar boat and all the electronics you want, it doesn’t change the fact that during the fall migration south, 3 to 50 miles offshore and miles long and wide, there are many different size class fish that are untouchable by recreational guys.

No question... However multiple thousands an be cleaned off a specific location in short order when they are bunched up, aggressive, and easily accessible..

Enough of those "specific locations" gets hit by the hordes of boats of all sizes, and the fish disappear pretty fast... I know you guys are good at what you do, but thats pretty common these days even among small boaters.. Many of us have been fishing in the NY Bight for 50-60 + years, and have seen what relentless rec pressure can do at certain times, in certain places, for certain species.. Stripers are not exempt to recreational overfishing. bob

[hammer4reel]

All the pressure you see are the weekend warriors. Anyone who is out during the week can attest there is a drastic decline in boats & fishing. Same holds true for Fluke. Factor in boat size, weather and if the fish bite, the pressure is even less, no matter how many boats and fisherman you can count. You can have a million dollar boat and all the electronics you want, it doesn’t change the fact that during the fall migration south, 3 to 50 miles offshore and miles long and wide, there are many different size class fish that are untouchable by recreational guys.

If that was true , why aren’t they staging at the mouth of the Chesapeake to spawn .
If you ever fished that area in the winter you would know there isn’t 1/20th of the bass wintering off VIrginia and North Carolina there once was .
No matter what their migration distance would be passing us , they have to enter the bay to spawn .

YEARS of constantly crushing the prime breeding cows iwhen they are all stacked up there from November to March has hurt the fishery .

.

[NoLimit]

I have been on just about every good striper bite for the past 5 years a ranging from Debs to PP. There is no "slaughtering" stripers. If they are bunched up and on the feed, the boat traffic comes in and disperses them. Or they simply go off the feed and they will show up on the fish finder but thats it.

Recreational fishermen have no affect on the population and its mindless to suggest it.

[reason162]

Recreational fishermen have no affect on the population and its mindless to suggest it.

It's truly remarkable that you can type out that sentence with a straight face.

[Billfish715]

The optics seem to present an image that make it hard to argue that the stripers are not being pressured. True or not, scenes like this make it look like the bass are being harvested at an incredible rate. Without real scientific numbers for fisheries managers to analyze, this is what they see. This is what influences their decisions to a degree. You have to admit, it makes you wonder about how many fish were taken by how many fishermen.

[Billfish715]

Even though these boats were railed, only a few bass were caught; proving that numbers of fishermen often don't add up to an equal number of caught fish. It's a hard concept to sell to others because of the optics. The impression is that the fishing stocks are being destroyed. All of the pressure does have an effect, but only to a degree. That degree is hard to prove because recreational fishermen don't have to report any numbers. Bonus tags are supposed to be totaled and submitted, but not everyone cooperates.

Te result is that formulas are used to determine the numbers of fish that were caught and those formulas are very skewed.

If you want to keep some fish, keep them. If you want to release them, release them. The rules are set; just play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. Just don't fight or argue among ourselves when we disagree with each other. We didn't set the regulations but we all should follow them. It's not for us to tell each other what to do or how to do it. If it's allowed, no one should make you feel like a criminal if you play by the rules.

While I feel that we should conserve the resource, you may feel differently. It's not for me to judge. Keep them or let them go. Just don't waste them. The rules are set. Play by them.

[Capt Sal]

Even though these boats were railed, only a few bass were caught; proving that numbers of fishermen often don't add up to an equal number of caught fish. It's a hard concept to sell to others because of the optics. The impression is that the fishing stocks are being destroyed. All of the pressure does have an effect, but only to a degree. That degree is hard to prove because recreational fishermen don't have to report any numbers. Bonus tags are supposed to be totaled and submitted, but not everyone cooperates.

Te result is that formulas are used to determine the numbers of fish that were caught and those formulas are very skewed.

If you want to keep some fish, keep them. If you want to release them, release them. The rules are set; just play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. Just don't fight or argue among ourselves when we disagree with each other. We didn't set the regulations but we all should follow them. It's not for us to tell each other what to do or how to do it. If it's allowed, no one should make you feel like a criminal if you play by the rules.

While I feel that we should conserve the resource, you may feel differently. It's not for me to judge. Keep them or let them go. Just don't waste them. The rules are set. Play by them.
Exactly!! I have said this before and maybe this will sink in! PARTY BOATS CAN NOT TROLL! They wish they could land fish every trip. As far as the boat traffic goes remember the rule - 10 % of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. Does anyone believe that every boat out there gets a limit every trip?? Nonsense!There are more boats but many novice anglers. I have ran Party Boats and have stood on the bridge watching boats troll and land stripers while we caught nothing. I have been on the other end and ran my charter boat and when we could not bait them or jig them we could troll them!Just because you see a party boat with 100 patrons does not mean they"slaughtered'' the stripers. As far as private boats go most of my friends fish for sport not meat.Consevation yes closure no.Trust me when i say-If you give up anything you will never get it back and you can take that to the bank!!!!

[Canyonfish]

I can honestly say that somehow I am getting far worse as a fisherman the older I get..... so without even trying, I am successfully supporting the local B&T shops, Fuel docks, and sandwich shops while simultaneously conserving the Fluke and Striper populations ..... and yet.. I am still having fun :)

[dakota560]

Lot of good points being made. Would like to add my two cents.

In the case of stripers, in many cases the more boats the less fish caught. When I had my boat, it got to a point you had to break the inlet on weekends before dark to have a chance. A half hour and hundreds of boats later made all the difference in the world. When there's too much traffic, in most cases bass turn off.

An interesting story that happened early 2000's. My two buys and I were fluke fishing just north of the red church in close on a sharp drop off of mussel beds that dropped from maybe 15 ft. to 20 ft. Anyone who knows that area knows where I'm talking about. We're out early drifting by ourselves and out of no where large swirls started boiling around us. Time of year was maybe mid June. Wasn't sure what they were but based on the size of the swirls, time of year, time of day we assumed bass. Son was reeling in a 4 ounce white spro, got slammed and landed a bass about 35 lbs. The bass stopped boiling but we were marking them. No bunker around so not sure what they were on but no surface activity. We all switched over to a spro and for maybe a half hour to 45 minutes every cast we hooked up a bass between 30 - 40 lbs. All fish were released, that was our decision. The entire time, the fleet was flying past us north to the rocks and I told my boys when a boat passes, rod tip down and put the reel in free spool. Not one boat stopped. We probably landed and released 20 large bass.

Just for the hell of it, one fish we caught I hooked it in the mouth, tied it to about 100 feet of mono and tied the other end to a balloon we had on board for sharking. Wanted to see where the school went when the traffic built. The fish and school when traffic got too much or the sun too high eventually headed due east as we followed the balloon and continued marking them on the recorder. We got out about 5 miles, pulled the fish back in, unhooked it and off it went. Was very cool.

Point is what I thought would happen did which is what many of us experience on weekends with that fishery. Early or late bight, fish come in to feed on the bunker schools and then scoot back out to get away from the boat traffic and continue their migration.

Things aren't always as they appear. As Billfish mentioned, sometimes the relationship of boats to catch aren't what they appear and in many cases I believe the exact opposite. Optics!

As far as fishery management is concerned in general, there's four ingredients every fishery needs IMO. Strong and healthy recruitment levels which means protect the breeders or protect the spawn, one or the other. Catch levels combined with natural mortality rates those recruitment levels can support, a healthy spread of different age classes and adequate forage to sustain the population. If regulations address each of the four, natures balance should all but guarantee the health and sustainability of the fishery.

Like I said, just my two cents.

[NoLimit]

It's truly remarkable that you can type out that sentence with a straight face.

Well its actually predictable that you would be pushing the propaganda that the rod and reel fisherman has done anything but help build fish stocks.

[NoLimit]

The optics seem to present an image that make it hard to argue that the stripers are not being pressured. True or not, scenes like this make it look like the bass are being harvested at an incredible rate. Without real scientific numbers for fisheries managers to analyze, this is what they see. This is what influences their decisions to a degree. You have to admit, it makes you wonder about how many fish were taken by how many fishermen. HAHAHAHA - and look at all the gaffs standing upright in their holders. That is one hell of a "slaughter". I have watched PBs like that all day and seen them catch squat. Nice try but no one is biting.

[NoLimit]

Lot of good points being made. Would like to add my two cents.

In the case of stripers, in many cases the more boats the less fish caught. When I had my boat, it got to a point you had to break the inlet on weekends before dark to have a chance. A half hour and hundreds of boats later made all the difference in the world. When there's too much traffic, in most cases bass turn off.

An interesting story that happened early 2000's. My two buys and I were fluke fishing just north of the red church in close on a sharp drop off of mussel beds that dropped from maybe 15 ft. to 20 ft. Anyone who knows that area knows where I'm talking about. We're out early drifting by ourselves and out of no where large swirls started boiling around us. Time of year was maybe mid June. Wasn't sure what they were but based on the size of the swirls, time of year, time of day we assumed bass. Son was reeling in a 4 ounce white spro, got slammed and landed a bass about 35 lbs. The bass stopped boiling but we were marking them. No bunker around so not sure what they were on but no surface activity. We all switched over to a spro and for maybe a half hour to 45 minutes every cast we hooked up a bass between 30 - 40 lbs. All fish were released, that was our decision. The entire time, the fleet was flying past us north to the rocks and I told my boys when a boat passes, rod tip down and put the reel in free spool. Not one boat stopped. We probably landed and released 20 large bass.

Just for the hell of it, one fish we caught I hooked it in the mouth, tied it to about 100 feet of mono and tied the other end to a balloon we had on board for sharking. Wanted to see where the school went when the traffic built. The fish and school when traffic got too much or the sun too high eventually headed due east as we followed the balloon and continued marking them on the recorder. We got out about 5 miles, pulled the fish back in, unhooked it and off it went. Was very cool.

Point is what I thought would happen did which is what many of us experience on weekends with that fishery. Early or late bight, fish come in to feed on the bunker schools and then scoot back out to get away from the boat traffic and continue their migration.

Things aren't always as they appear. As Billfish mentioned, sometimes the relationship of boats to catch aren't what they appear and in many cases I believe the exact opposite. Optics!

As far as fishery management is concerned in general, there's four ingredients every fishery needs IMO. Strong and healthy recruitment levels which means protect the breeders or protect the spawn, one or the other. Catch levels combined with natural mortality rates those recruitment levels can support, a healthy spread of different age classes and adequate forage to sustain the population. If regulations address each of the four, natures balance should all but guarantee the health and sustainability of the fishery.

Like I said, just my two cents.

So you caught a striper how many miles east ? :-)

[dakota560]

So you caught a striper how many miles east ? :-)

Haha....nice try! It was caught and released about a quarter mile offshore. Then we subsequently untangled a striper beyond the EEZ that had a hook in it's mouth which somehow got attached to a baloon. Saved it's life. No illegal fishing involved in this story!

[Billfish715]

Recreational fishermen have no affect on the population and its mindless to suggest it.
So, if it's mindless to suggest that recreational fishermen have no "effect" on the population, who or what do you suggest does? I'm assuming that you agree that while striper stocks had recovered substantially, they are currently in a decline. Lots of factors were involved in the recovery and lots of elements were and are in place during the decline, some of which include fishermen. Still, even with the currently reduced numbers, we have more bass than when I was growing up. We also have bigger fish now than when the size limits were at 18". A 28" bass back then was a real trophy. Unfortunately, when the stripers were very abundant, especially in Maryland and Virginia, many "Recreational" "pin" fishermen subsidized their incomes by selling thousands of pounds of striped bass until the "moratorium".

This makes an interesting "read" if you are interested. It is a brief history of how we got to where we are now.

https://www.surfcastersjournal.com/a-brief-history-of-striped-bass-management-by-eric-burnley/

[Suckafish]

Seems pretty simple to me. Leave the breeding cow females alone and there will always be fish. I agree with slot fish limit. There use to be a all June ocean bite on the bunker now it’s a week or so. The bigger breeders stock is definitely down. Just my two cents.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Something to be said for once you give something up you don't get it back... Seabass is the perfect example. The stocks by all accounts are at an all time high and totally rebuilt, yet we get no liberalization to the restrictive regulations that we swallowed in order the rebuild them??

But lets get back to Stripers....It seems like there is a consensus here that something needs to be done to protect the large female breeders. However if you look historically at the Striper regs and even last years regs, those very regulations forced people to target larger fish. We are also on the same nonsensical path with how Fluke are being managed. Do you see a pattern here ;)

There also seems to be consensus that the Hudson River stocks are in good shape but the Chesapeake are in decline. The Chesapeake area regulations have been modified to hopefully correct that situation, so what are we to do here in NJ?

I'm against closing down the fishery for any length of time but agree that the regulations with a smaller slot fish makes the most sense to protect the large breeders yet give us access. Maybe we should have stricter regulations during the the typical pre spawn and spawn times in our area and relax them outside of that time?

Problem here is although what I proposed above might make sense, agree with it or not, once those regulations are plugged into some spread sheet, we will likely be be deemed to exceed our conservation equivalency and out of compliance.

[Gumada]

Circle hooks for bait and a slot from 26” to 31”, pick a limit....protect the breeders and let a guy harvest a quality eater. That’s my .02

[Skolmann]

Been saying it for years, a slot limit for striped bass similar to how the southern states have done to help the redfish stocks rebound so successfully is what I feel we need.

In addition in IMHO, a change in the northeast anglers attitude from kill your limit/fill your box to take what you need for a dinner and release the rest.

[reason162]

Been saying it for years, a slot limit for striped bass similar to how the southern states have done to help the redfish stocks rebound so successfully is what I feel we need.

There IS a slot limit this year. As usual, NJ pushed for (and got, apparently) their BS "conservation equivalency" through, so did MD.

[Gumada]

There IS a slot limit this year. As usual, NJ pushed for (and got, apparently) their BS "conservation equivalency" through, so did MD.

I understand, but.....The slot top is too high along with the low...in my HO

[Gumada]

In addition in IMHO, a change in the northeast anglers attitude from kill your limit/fill your box to take what you need for a dinner and release the rest.

I think the majority of NE anglers have already adopted the conservation approach. On my boat and in my circle of fishing companions I know it to be a fact. Last year and for at least the last 5 years many stripers have been caught, cared for and released with best practices to give these fish the best chance for survival. While taking only what was needed, around 10% at the most. Maybe some education is in order for anglers to mitigate how the “statisticians” view mortality rate....

[FASTEDDIE29]

I was very happy when the limit was 1 fish @ 24-28 and 1 over 28. But this would be too much fish for my household then and now. I don’t freeze my fish and I don’t like to stock pile my freezers with bags of fish or any meat to be honest. These 2 fish were caught well over 20 years ago and I should’ve let the over 28 go! Keep what you can eat and maybe give a fillet away! Pics say 1000 words and fresh smaller size fish simply taste better! Can people be capable of keeping one fish between 24-32 inches and be happy with that? Just a thought and my opinion. I’m not trying to piss people off.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/t599/fasteddie2927/1/ED277DF9-02AD-4771-AB7D-C4771F86EF1C.jpeg

[NoLimit]

So, if it's mindless to suggest that recreational fishermen have no "effect" on the population, who or what do you suggest does? I'm assuming that you agree that while striper stocks had recovered substantially, they are currently in a decline. Lots of factors were involved in the recovery and lots of elements were and are in place during the decline, some of which include fishermen. Still, even with the currently reduced numbers, we have more bass than when I was growing up. We also have bigger fish now than when the size limits were at 18". A 28" bass back then was a real trophy. Unfortunately, when the stripers were very abundant, especially in Maryland and Virginia, many "Recreational" "pin" fishermen subsidized their incomes by selling thousands of pounds of striped bass until the "moratorium".

This makes an interesting "read" if you are interested. It is a brief history of how we got to where we are now.

https://www.surfcastersjournal.com/a-brief-history-of-striped-bass-management-by-eric-burnley/

Who says stripers are in decline? Just because the keepers bypassed Raritan Bay and the Jersey coast last year does not mean that the stocks are low. In fact, for 18-26" fish, I never saw so many - literally acres of them stacked 10' deep that flew right past the NY Bight in a matter of hours. I think there were only 4-5 other boats that witnessed them. They came along Long Island till about Debs and then went straight south offshore of the bay

[hammer4reel]

Who says stripers are in decline? Just because the keepers bypassed Raritan Bay and the Jersey coast last year does not mean that the stocks are low. In fact, for 18-26" fish, I never saw so many - literally acres of them stacked 10' deep that flew right past the NY Bight in a matter of hours. I think there were only 4-5 other boats that witnessed them. They came along Long Island till about Debs and then went straight south offshore of the bay

If the fish don’t show up to spawn in the Chesapeake guess you still believe they died of old age ?

No matter what route they take , inshore , offshore , if they don’t show up on their spawning grounds you should know there is a problem .
.

[reason162]

If the fish don’t show up to spawn in the Chesapeake guess you still believe they died of old age ?
.

New spawning grounds off the coast of Spain maybe. Any crackpot theory will do, as long as it's not overfishing.

[bulletbob]

For what little its worth, here's my thought on the subject.. No matter HOW this pans out, I personally think the bloody deck pics need to stop here and anywhere else they are posted.. Just a really bad look from a community that prides itself on its commitment to conservation and preservation of the resource.. I realize that its just part of the deal with "online fishing communities", but man I think the optics need to be considered first, especially when dealing with a desirable game species thats always on BIG BROTHERS radar screen.
Posters that show vivid pro level pictures of huge breeders intercepted while heading upstream to spawn, lying in bloody piles on white decks with beaming anglers giving thumbs up with arms around one another do nothing to help the cause.. We fishermen are not the only lurkers around here I'm pretty sure.

I don't have the wisdom to have any type of answer to situations such as this.. Everyone does it, private boaters, charters, party boats, it just something that has always gone on, and none of us ever gave it a second thought.. Times have changed, and it might not be a great idea to give "regulators" any more ammo than they already have.... bob

[bulletbob]

If the fish don’t show up to spawn in the Chesapeake guess you still believe they died of old age ?

No matter what route they take , inshore , offshore , if they don’t show up on their spawning grounds you should know there is a problem .
.


Serious question- Are the numbers of spawning fish really that far down in the chesapeake? I guess i wasn't aware of that.. Its been decades, but I do recall in the 70's and 80's each year the spawning numbers , YOY counts, survival rates, recruitment, in the Chesepeake complex were very closely watched, and as those numbers got worse, striper populations everywhere on the coast got worse..
Its been a while since I followed those trends, but many years ago, followed them as close as I could... bob

[bulletbob]

Answered my question. Took a quick look and there were dozens of articles on the subject...



https://www.onthewater.com/bad-news-for-striped-bass-2019-spawn-below-average

[Reel Class]

Circle hooks are not a solution to this problem. This spring/summer/fall while eeling one of my favorite spots my buddy and I had a bad night with gut hooked fish; luckily 2 of the fish were keepers and 2 of them were resusitated - next night we went back when the tide was right we used circles and we still had a few deep hooked fish. Neither one of us were new to fishing circles and fishing live eels.

I hadn't tried circle hooks for 15+ years and I quickly remembered why I hadn't.

If you're fishing clams or chunks on the bottom where there's a pick up and run, yeah they should work, but when you're fishing a live bait and the fish are much more aggressive they may be a little better in keeping the fish alive, but overall I haven't had a great deal of success with them, and neither have the guys in my circle.

[Gerry Zagorski]

So I hear the ASMFC recently threw out the earlier proposed regulations that were floating around for NJ since they did not meet conservation equivalencies, in other words had we would have exceed our quota.

The new options being considered are
- 1 @ 28 - 35 inches
- 1 @ 28 - 38 inches
- 1 @ 28 - 40 inches

Note that any of these options are still subject to ASMFC approval and need to pass the test of conservation equivalency.

[reason162]

The new options being considered are
- 1 @ 28 - 35 inches
- 1 @ 28 - 38 inches
- 1 @ 28 - 40 inches

Note that 1 @ 28 - 35" is what every other state except MD is going with. NJ should do the responsible thing and protect our larger spawners.

[NoLimit]

Answered my question. Took a quick look and there were dozens of articles on the subject...



https://www.onthewater.com/bad-news-for-striped-bass-2019-spawn-below-average

There are two kinds of lies and one of them is called statistics. Seriously, look at their chart that preaches doom and gloom and tell me where is the awesome spawning years that gave us the best striper fishing ever in 2017-18? ANSWER: There is none. All those huge stripers came from those "terrible" spawn years of 2005-2010. Either the sampling technique or controls or other aspect of the methodology is invalid. Dont drink the koolaid. This is more propaganda to get the recreational fisherman stuck with holding the bag while restrictions ease for you know who.

[NoLimit]

For what little its worth, here's my thought on the subject.. No matter HOW this pans out, I personally think the bloody deck pics need to stop here and anywhere else they are posted.. Just a really bad look from a community that prides itself on its commitment to conservation and preservation of the resource.. I realize that its just part of the deal with "online fishing communities", but man I think the optics need to be considered first, especially when dealing with a desirable game species thats always on BIG BROTHERS radar screen.
Posters that show vivid pro level pictures of huge breeders intercepted while heading upstream to spawn, lying in bloody piles on white decks with beaming anglers giving thumbs up with arms around one another do nothing to help the cause.. We fishermen are not the only lurkers around here I'm pretty sure.

I don't have the wisdom to have any type of answer to situations such as this.. Everyone does it, private boaters, charters, party boats, it just something that has always gone on, and none of us ever gave it a second thought.. Times have changed, and it might not be a great idea to give "regulators" any more ammo than they already have.... bob

What bloody decks? There are not pics of stripers on bloody decks. The pics of big stripers are great. I think its great seeing fellow fisherman succeed with fish of a life time. I think there should be mandatory pics of fish caught. It keeps us looking forward to the spring.

[Capt Sal]

A couple things i read here.Circle hooks don't make a difference? Why do all the charter boats use them if they don't work. Once you have your limit and you want to play catch and release it should be mandatory by the captain to insist on only circle hooks. I don't know and neither does any one else know exactly what the striper stocks are. I do know this-If you give something up you will never get it back! Catch and release will be the end of all for hire boats. We need to work together. Charter and PB boats are still recreational fishing not commercial but some people want to put them in the commercial category.

[Gerry Zagorski]

FYI - This from NJDEP

There will be a special meeting of the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council on Thursday, February 13, 2020 at the Stafford Twp. Municipal Building, 260 East Bay Avenue, Manahawkin, NJ 08050.

The meeting is scheduled to begin at 5 pm and is open to the public.

NJ will be making the decision on its 2020 recreational striped bass and bluefish measures, as well as the commercial black sea bass measures.

[Gerry Zagorski]

An interesting perspective here...

https://fishingbooker.com/blog/2019-striped-bass-fishing-season-closures/

[NoLimit]

How can fish mortality equal the total catch!!!

[Billfish715]

How can fish mortality equal the total catch!!!

Read it again..... In 2017, recreational anglers caught a total of 41.2 million Striped Bass. They kept 2.9 million and released 38.2 million. Out of those 38 million fish, 3.4 million ended up dying.

41.2 million caught
38.2 million released
3.4 million of the released died
2.9 million harvested

More died than were harvested!That still means that close to 35 MILLION stripers were released to live another year. 35 MILLION is a lot of fish! I'm confused. It sure doesn't look like we are killing too many fish. Those are the ASMFC's numbers.

[Capt Sal]

Just like the "FAKE NEWS".I don't believe the numbers but i am for conservation.

[penn50w]

We personally saw more big fish last year than the last 5 combined - just because these fish aren't between the beach and the 3 mile line doesn't mean they don't exist - people have seen acres of monster bass past the 3 mile line and they were mixed in with the TUNA that were just over the 3 mile line last Fall - The TREE HUGGERS need to take a hike - and those that think you keep the young and and release the old, I'll ask once again - if you take all the young fish, where do old BIG FISH COME FROM - THE THIN AIR, VA LA THEY APPEAR, WAKE UP - Big cows don't spawn every year while 28"-35" spawn yearly - do the math, 10 young ones out produce 1 big cow 2 or 3 to 1 - bottom line, eat what you catch, release the rest unless you have a record worth keeping - tight lines!

[penn50w]

I have personally NEVER BEEN CONTACTED on how many Stripers we caught, ever so I don't know how they can possibly know HOW MANY RECREATIONAL STRIPERS were caught on a yearly basis - I think they make up CATCH numbers based on PICTURES, my opinion

[hammer4reel]

We personally saw more big fish last year than the last 5 combined - just because these fish aren't between the beach and the 3 mile line doesn't mean they don't exist - people have seen acres of monster bass past the 3 mile line and they were mixed in with the TUNA that were just over the 3 mile line last Fall - The TREE HUGGERS need to take a hike - and those that think you keep the young and and release the old, I'll ask once again - if you take all the young fish, where do old BIG FISH COME FROM - THE THIN AIR, VA LA THEY APPEAR, WAKE UP - Big cows don't spawn every year while 28"-35" spawn yearly - do the math, 10 young ones out produce 1 big cow 2 or 3 to 1 - bottom line, eat what you catch, release the rest unless you have a record worth keeping - tight lines!

Guys want to claim the migration is off the beach now , and it is for some fish .
BUT when those same fish aren’t where they should be during the spawn that should be proof the Biomass is hurting .

The constant winter slaughter of big bass from Thanksgiving to April has drastically hurt the fishery .
.

.and as far as eggs , one big bass has more eggs than a 100 small bass .
.

[shucker]

We personally saw more big fish last year than the last 5 combined - just because these fish aren't between the beach and the 3 mile line doesn't mean they don't exist - people have seen acres of monster bass past the 3 mile line and they were mixed in with the TUNA that were just over the 3 mile line last Fall - The TREE HUGGERS need to take a hike - and those that think you keep the young and and release the old, I'll ask once again - if you take all the young fish, where do old BIG FISH COME FROM - THE THIN AIR, VA LA THEY APPEAR, WAKE UP - Big cows don't spawn every year while 28"-35" spawn yearly - do the math, 10 young ones out produce 1 big cow 2 or 3 to 1 - bottom line, eat what you catch, release the rest unless you have a record worth keeping - tight lines!
Those fish have always been over 3 mile line... Our inshore fish population has taken a hit.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I have personally NEVER BEEN CONTACTED on how many Stripers we caught, ever so I don't know how they can possibly know HOW MANY RECREATIONAL STRIPERS were caught on a yearly basis - I think they make up CATCH numbers based on PICTURES, my opinion

They use MRIP (Marine Recreational Information Program https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/topic/recreational-fishing-data) to estimate catch numbers. It’s basically taking the results of fishermens surveys and applying assumptions to them so they are made up numbers....

A long read below but Captain Monty Hawkins points out some of the hard to believe assumptions the MRIP system has spit out.

Here's a couple quick examples of MRIP's statistical finery: In May/June 2019 the Average striped bass caught from Maine's Shore was 39 lbs and 46 inches - Rhode Island's stripers averaged 28.5 lbs & 38 inches - NJ's Shore-caught stripers were comparitively puny at 19.4 lbs & 35 inches - Average. (Poor NJ.. Must have been some bigger ones too though, no?)
In Delaware this past summer Shore-caught sea bass were that state's largest at 1.5 lbs apiece average. In 2019 Massachusetts' Shore-caught sea bass averaged 2.9 lbs. In 2010 NY's average Shore-caught sea bass was 2 lbs.
In 2013 there were 2.4X more summer flounder caught from shore than by all Party/Charter. Shore 'only' caught 2.1X more Scup than All Party/Charter that year.
Shoot.. Odd that we'd ever carry a client. Shore is obviously where folks ought to fish!
According to MRIP's recreational catch estimates at least. . .

The very day of MRIP's 2012 release, the first estimate I checked was New Jersey Shore (Shore Only) Tautog from March/April 2010. I'd been making a fuss about the ridiculousness of MRFSS' previous 74,000 tautog estimate--this catch made in a time when NJ Shore anglers are not catching tog at all.
When MRIP first came out it claimed: 'Oh No! It wasn't 74,000 - it was 173,000 tog!' (NJ's jetty tautog begin to bite at the very end of April.)
Yeah. Umm, okay NOAA. A hundred thousand more absolutely impossible tog..
Some repair.
So, as soon as MRIP came out I knew we'd been taken for a ride.

MRIP has been 'recalibrated' twice since 2012. Both times our recreational estimates rose incredulously.
That NJ shore tog estimate? Not a soul believed the 74K under MRFSS - which shot to 173K at MRIP's release - to now a mind-blowing 341K today after MRIP's 'recalibrations'.. That's 341,440 Shore-Caught Tautog From NJ when they're NOT biting.
New Jersey Shore Only
Status Year Wave Name Total Harvest PSE Total Weight (lb) PSE
FINAL 2010 MARCH/APRIL TAUTOG 341,440 85.6 807,512 85.6
Allow me to stick with this NJ Shore MRIP estimate a bit more. It really doesn't tell the average person much until there's something to compare it to.
Here's ALL Commercial Landings, All Year, from Maine to Virginia - Not just NJ Commercial - All Trap, Trawl, Handline - All Commercial catch in the species full range..
286,047 lbs All 2010 Commercial All Year vs 807,512 lbs of NJ Shore-caught during the last few weeks of April 2010.
Commercial landings are always in pounds. In 'Fish' the number is much lower - 286,047 becomes about 73,345 tog when divided by 3.9lbs--the avg weight of Party/Charter tog in 2010.

Now Here's All Party/Charter - All Year - for Tautog in 2010
For-Hire Only - North & Mid Atlantic
Status Year Name Total Harvest PSE Total Weight (lb) PSE
FINAL 2010 TAUTOG 85,441 15.8 341,488 13.9

So: All For-Hire catches 85,441 tautog All Year - And All Commercial catches 73,345 tautog All Year. That's 158,786 tautog for All professional effort in All of 2010.
MRIP's (not so brilliant) assertion is that NJ Shore, in just March & April, landed & kept 182,653 more Tautog than All professional boat fishermen - when NJ's Shore anglers were JUST starting to catch them in the very end of the period. Experts in the fishery doubt the real number would even reach a couple hundred tog.
But Fisheries Management & Science work with pounds - MRIP has those NJ Shore anglers at 807,512 lbs in just a few weeks. That's 180,000 more pounds of tog/blackfish than All Party/Charter/Trap/Trawl landed All Year.

[NoLimit]

Read it again..... In 2017, recreational anglers caught a total of 41.2 million Striped Bass. They kept 2.9 million and released 38.2 million. Out of those 38 million fish, 3.4 million ended up dying.

41.2 million caught
38.2 million released
3.4 million of the released died
2.9 million harvested

More died than were harvested!That still means that close to 35 MILLION stripers were released to live another year. 35 MILLION is a lot of fish! I'm confused. It sure doesn't look like we are killing too many fish. Those are the ASMFC's numbers.

I dont have to read it again. The second bar chart shows in light green release mortality numbers that equals the total catch!! Who is publishing this junk

[NoLimit]

We personally saw more big fish last year than the last 5 combined - just because these fish aren't between the beach and the 3 mile line doesn't mean they don't exist - people have seen acres of monster bass past the 3 mile line and they were mixed in with the TUNA that were just over the 3 mile line last Fall - The TREE HUGGERS need to take a hike - and those that think you keep the young and and release the old, I'll ask once again - if you take all the young fish, where do old BIG FISH COME FROM - THE THIN AIR, VA LA THEY APPEAR, WAKE UP - Big cows don't spawn every year while 28"-35" spawn yearly - do the math, 10 young ones out produce 1 big cow 2 or 3 to 1 - bottom line, eat what you catch, release the rest unless you have a record worth keeping - tight lines! Worth repeating. There were huge numbers of fish that were more than 3 miles out that no one ever saw - far more that what people saw inside.

[NoLimit]

I have personally NEVER BEEN CONTACTED on how many Stripers we caught, ever so I don't know how they can possibly know HOW MANY RECREATIONAL STRIPERS were caught on a yearly basis - I think they make up CATCH numbers based on PICTURES, my opinion Also worth repeating

[NoLimit]

" one big bass has more eggs than a 100 small bass ."

Since when?! Do you think you are talking to people that havent gutted all sizes of legal stripers and seen the egg sacks? They are pretty proportional and not off by a factor of 100
.

[hammer4reel]

" one big bass has more eggs than a 100 small bass ."

Since when?! Do you think you are talking to people that havent gutted all sizes of legal stripers and seen the egg sacks? They are pretty proportional and not off by a factor of 100
.

Ha ha , so you finally actually read something instead of spewing off from what your seeing in a small area and trying to equate it to what the rest of the state is seeing.

A 7 year old bass (24\26” ) holds approx 1/2 a million egggs , a 17 year old bass
(48/50”) bass carries 3 million , so its 6 times as many not proportional .
BUT THATS 2.5 MILLION MORE EGGS

All these bass everyone is seeing outside the line have always been there , but what’s indicative of the stocks is what is showing up on both the summer grounds and spawning grounds .
Point X and point Y.
Doesn’t matter the path , if they aren’t at those 2 spots it’s because the numbers are down .
.
What we see bass wise towards the RARITAN bay has no reference to the Chesapeake stocks in question .
.
Maryland and Virginia crushed those bass for too long winter after winter ..
But it’s those bass that 90% of NJ is fishing for .

The NY bite fishery is only fished by a small pool of anglers in comparison to 100% of us get a shot at Chessy fish during their migration.

.

[Gerry Zagorski]

One thing is for sure... I don't care which side of this argument you're on, I think we can agree that the science they use to calculate the total recreational landings, which includes fish that were kept or caught and released and wound up dead, is very suspect.

41.2 million caught
38.2 million released
3.4 million of the released died ( 38.2 x 9% mortality)
2.9 million harvested

Lets take those numbers and scale them down to something that relates closer to a day of fishing.

If you believe the science, if you caught and released 10 fish, 1 of them winds up dead... Therefore you're just as responsible for depleting the stocks as the guy who kept one fish...

Lets take this one step further... There are a lot of people who practice catch and release and I'm all for that. However, unless you decide to stop fishing for Stripers all together, you should not be critical of the people who decide to harvest a fish or, your'e being hypocritical.

This ^^^^ is an important point and the reason why I'm so critical of catch a release people being critical of someone who decides to harvest a fish...


OK now lets see how these estimates and the so called "science" plays out for us as recreational fishermen.

Seems to me Fisheries Management knows that data is faulty since they continue to liberalize commercial landings but not recreational...

Each year we're given a recreational quota and based on that quota they apply assumptions (MRIP) to put measures in place to make sure we meet or don't exceed that quota which winds up being our regulations.

As you'll see, in the case of Fluke, the commercial sector actually got more quota this past year http://www.asmfc.org/species/summer-flounder then recreational. Here is an excerpt from this article


Based on the 2018 stock assessment findings, the Board and MAFMC revised the 2019 specifications and set new specifications for 2020 and 2021, with the intent to maintain regulatory stability. For the 2019-2021 fishing seasons, the commercial quota is set at 11.53 million pounds and the recreational harvest limit (RHL) is set at 7.69 million pounds. The revised commercial quota was approximately a 49% increase over the previously set 2019 quota. While the revised 2019 RHL represents an approximate 49% increase over the previously set 2019 RHL, the Board chose to maintain status quo recreational measures, which are projected to achieve a harvest level close to the revised RHL based on the calibrated MRIP recreational harvest data.


Now lets look at Black Seabass and important to note this is a fishery that is deemed to be totally rebuilt... Once again commercials get an increase and so did we recreationals however, we are still stuck with sea saw open and closed seasons and punitive bag limits as we've had in the past.

These were the quota numbers in 2018 vs 2019
- Commercial Quota was 3.52 and it was raised to 5.58
- Recreational Harvest Limit was 3.66 and it was raised to 5.81

Point in all this is we recreational fishermen are getting screwed because of the science or lack thereof.

[hammer4reel]

So let’s address your C/R criticism Gerry .
While I think mortality’s are exaggerated , but f,or the moment let’s say it is 1/10 /


Dead fish is a dead fish , so a CR fisherman gets 10 times the enjoyment from the fishery fighting fish .
I would much rather fight a hundred fish than just go out and kill 10 .

Those 10 fish that may not make it , become food for everything in the ocean . Nothing wasted .

Many people who need to keep every fish do eat it and that’s great , but also a large amount sits in a freezer till being thrown away the next season .

CR fisherman aren’t against keeping fish , it’s the timing of when those fish are being kept .
Anyone wanting to see a fishery survive is an IDIOT fo kill those fish when they are laden with eggs plain and simple let them spawn then Keep what ever.

How many boats will survive if a rule was once you bagged a fish, you had to stop fishing for the day ?

While you continually want to base a fishery on for hire boats staying in business , IMO , your not backing your own arguments .

Their has to be a happy medium between both CR and Catch and fillet fishing .


Now let’s talk about the bonus tags .
They claim their is a cap on the amount sold . Yet seems every boat has them on board .as well as those patrons who bought them on their own .
Do you really feel a striped bass should only be worth 2 bucks ? .
I’m glad they limited it to the smaller slot , because when people were killing 40 pound fish with them I wanted to puke .
Those fish and the excitement they bring to an angler fighting them is priceless .
I have seen , and heard thousands of cheers , hooting and hollering seeing fisherman fight these fish .
Not once have I seen that same excitement seeing someone eat one..

.
The ocean just isn’t the bottomless resource we once thought it was .
We all can agree every fishery except sea bass is quite different than it was 10 years ago .
The next 10 are going to pass just as fast.
I’m to the point I would rather they do more to protect the species now instead of waiting for another collapse .
..

.


.

[Capt Sal]

In the fall bonus tags allow patrons and private owners to at least come home with something. In the fall there are millions of smaller bass. Could you imagine if those huge schools in the fall were were all big bass. As far as bonus tags they keep the PB boats going in the fall. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but it is a tough one to keep everyone happy. Dan your getting older like me and you should think back when you first started out. How would you like to have a PB worth five hundred thousand with a big mortgage on it and deal with all these closed seasons and ridiculous bag limits. When i say bag limits i mean on fluke and sea bass one striper is enough. It is a changing world for sure and so is salt water fishing.When i fished with my dad and grandfather in the late fifties and early sixties it was all about filling the freezer. Now it is come home with a meal and you had a good day. I can live with that.

[hammer4reel]

In the fall bonus tags allow patrons and private owners to at least come home with something. In the fall there are millions of smaller bass. Could you imagine if those huge schools in the fall were were all big bass. As far as bonus tags they keep the PB boats going in the fall. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but it is a tough one to keep everyone happy. Dan your getting older like me and you should think back when you first started out. How would you like to have a PB worth five hundred thousand with a big mortgage on it and deal with all these closed seasons and ridiculous bag limits. When i say bag limits i mean on fluke and sea bass one striper is enough. It is a changing world for sure and so is salt water fishing.When i fished with my dad and grandfather in the late fifties and early sixties it was all about filling the freezer. Now it is come home with a meal and you had a good day. I can live with that.


Sal I 100 % agree with the bonus tag use in the fall . And that def is when they could get the most use .

What I didn’t agree with was when they were able to be used on cow bass at a cost of 2 bucks .
If you remember a few us didn’t allow them to be used on our boats just for that principle .

I also find it hard to believe they limit those tags to what they claim .
Seemed there was always tags available .
If it really is 27000 tags that’s not an issue that will hurt the fishery at all .

You would think with all the SW anglers in Nj those tags would be gone in days .
.

As you said we are getting older , but got to see how great this fishery had gotten the late 90’s and even better 2004-2013 was incredible.
I want to see it like that again . Would be great for the whole fishing industry .

Slot limits can def help get the fishery back to where it was ..

Views today are always based on people getting what they think is their money’s worth out of a trip .
It should not just be based on the amount of fish killed . A day on the water catching fish and memories made with friends and family is priceless to those of us who love the water .
.
.

[Gerry Zagorski]

A good discussion here Dan........


So let’s address your C/R criticism Gerry .
While I think mortality’s are exaggerated , but f,or the moment let’s say it is 1/10 /


Dead fish is a dead fish , so a CR fisherman gets 10 times the enjoyment from the fishery fighting fish .
I would much rather fight a hundred fish than just go out and kill 10 .

Those 10 fish that may not make it , become food for everything in the ocean . Nothing wasted .

Many people who need to keep every fish do eat it and that’s great , but also a large amount sits in a freezer till being thrown away the next season .

Gerry: Agreed, I don't like to see people taking more than they'll use either. It's a waste of the resource and pigs eventually get slaughtered :D

As far as your preference to catch and release 100 instead of kill 10, although I'm with you here that's our personal preference. Like you, I get to fish a lot but how about the person who only fishes occasionally? If he decides to take 1 fish people shouldn't be jumping all over him, since it's the same as you and me releasing 10 fish.

CR fisherman aren’t against keeping fish , it’s the timing of when those fish are being kept .
Anyone wanting to see a fishery survive is an IDIOT fo kill those fish when they are laden with eggs plain and simple let them spawn then Keep what ever.

Gerry: Yep and I do think regardless of the regs, more and more people get that and it's posts like this where people get educated.


How many boats will survive if a rule was once you bagged a fish, you had to stop fishing for the day ?

While you continually want to base a fishery on for hire boats staying in business , IMO , your not backing your own arguments .


Gerry: I'm not advocating that people be forced to stop fishing after catching their one fish... My point here is that if you believe the science, people who strictly catch and release 10 fish are consuming as much resource as the person who keeps 1 fish and the catch and release people shouldn't be judging them for keeping a fish. You see it here and all over social media..."Why did you kill that fish?"

Their has to be a happy medium between both CR and Catch and fillet fishing .


Now let’s talk about the bonus tags .
They claim their is a cap on the amount sold . Yet seems every boat has them on board .as well as those patrons who bought them on their own .
Do you really feel a striped bass should only be worth 2 bucks ? .
I’m glad they limited it to the smaller slot , because when people were killing 40 pound fish with them I wanted to puke .
Those fish and the excitement they bring to an angler fighting them is priceless .
I have seen , and heard thousands of cheers , hooting and hollering seeing fisherman fight these fish .
Not once have I seen that same excitement seeing someone eat one..

Gerry: once again we agree but remember we have a bonus fish because we get the commercial quota and we should be able to use that resource. I'm glad they now use the bonus tag for a 24 -28 inch fish too. You'll remember years ago it was for a trophy fish, I think 42 inches or more. You'll also remember I shared my story here when I finally got my 40 pound fish and resisted my natural reaction to keep it and for no other reason then to be able to show it off back at the dock. I took a picture instead and I remember thinking on the ride back home, how I would have felt had I kept it.



.
The ocean just isn’t the bottomless resource we once thought it was .
We all can agree every fishery except sea bass is quite different than it was 10 years ago .
The next 10 are going to pass just as fast.
I’m to the point I would rather they do more to protect the species now instead of waiting for another collapse .

Gerry: with you too here Dan and I think for the most part, people who fish, be it private or charter have a new found appreciation and awareness of the resource. I was at the HiMar Flea Market and heard one of the guys announce the HiMar Striper tournaments are going catch and release now.


At the end of the day, you and I are much closer than you think Dan. I just take an opposing opinion to make people think and as a side benefit, get you all pissed off :D

Oh and also to state that people in glass houses (catch and release guys) should not throw stones (at the people who want to take a fish for the table) That also goes for the guys like me who used to kill everything and finally got religion... Some people find religion earlier in life and others later... And some don't find it at all, or when it's too late ;)

[NoLimit]

The mortality rate is BS. If it wasnt, the water would be loaded with dead fish on peak days. In all my years, I have seen only two dead stripers. And they do float. One time, we had one die in the live well and we accidentally went overboard at the dock - no problem, because it floated like a cork.

[Capt Sal]

The mortality rate is BS. If it wasnt, the water would be loaded with dead fish on peak days. In all my years, I have seen only two dead stripers. And they do float. One time, we had one die in the live well and we accidentally went overboard at the dock - no problem, because it floated like a cork.

Stripers will get gut hooked chunking for sure. Circle hooks work no matter what is posted on here. When jigging 99% are all lip hooked. Trolling spoons or stretch 25 lures is the same -lip hooked.When i chartered i had a customer land a 34" bass that was bleeding out his gills. He said throw it back it isn't big enough. I threw it in the cooler. J hooks until you get your limit if you have to.After that mandatory circle. My as well learn how to use circle hooks because there is no doubt they will be mandatory in Raritan Bay in the near future. !2-O circle is not too big!! Where i retired in Florida it is mandatory circle hooks in the Atlantic. Same in Louisiana when i fish the Gulf out of Grand Isle. My youngest son has a boat there.

[Billfish715]

Stripers will get gut hooked chunking for sure. Circle hooks work no matter what is posted on here. When jigging 99% are all lip hooked. Trolling spoons or stretch 25 lures is the same -lip hooked.When i chartered i had a customer land a 34" bass that was bleeding out his gills. He said throw it back it isn't big enough. I threw it in the cooler. J hooks until you get your limit if you have to.After that mandatory circle. My as well learn how to use circle hooks because there is no doubt they will be mandatory in Raritan Bay in the near future. !2-O circle is not too big!! Where i retired in Florida it is mandatory circle hooks in the Atlantic. Same in Louisiana when i fish the Gulf out of Grand Isle. My youngest son has a boat there.

Learning how to use circles will be the key. Just how large the hook should be and if it should be offset or not, is something that will be the first lesson. The first excuse for someone who loses a fish or misses several bites using circle hooks is that it's the hook's fault and not the fault of the guy who's doing the hooking. Selling fishermen on the use of circle hooks will be a process. Snag and drop might be banned because of the frequency of gut or deeply hooked fish. So, whether it's livelining or chunking, I think you are right, Sal: circle hooks are going to be mandatory.

[RescueDogger]

The first excuse for someone who loses a fish or misses several bites using circle hooks is that it's the hook's fault and not the fault of the guy who's doing the hooking.
Uhm, I think this is my issue. How about a link for how to use circle hooks?

[Skolmann]

Uhm, I think this is my issue. How about a link for how to use circle hooks?

Do not Employ a hook set, when the fish picks up the bait-allow it to run, engage the reel and allow the line to come tight-this will turn the circle hook and it should hook the fish in the corner of the mouth.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Do not Employ a hook set, when the fish picks up the bait-allow it to run, engage the reel and allow the line to come tight-this will turn the circle hook and it should hook the fish in the corner of the mouth.

While I agree, easier said then done since I can't resist the temptation to swing for the hills... Old habits are hard to break :D

[RescueDogger]

Thanks fellas

[Capt Sal]

Do not Employ a hook set, when the fish picks up the bait-allow it to run, engage the reel and allow the line to come tight-this will turn the circle hook and it should hook the fish in the corner of the mouth.

Diagree. With all due respect that works if what ever fish bass, tuna what ever go straight out and tighten the line themselves. Sometimes they swim toward the boat or in a circle. in this case reel until the line comes tight. The bass will do the rest. Stripers are by no means line shy. Expose the hook for a better set. DO NOT STRIKE!! Sometimes i had to physically restrain the customers from striking lol Skolman this was meant for the guy who asked how to use circle hooks not you. I know you did this before. I think we need a new thread on this and maybe some of the captains and sharpies can chime in on the use and type of circle hook they use. Floro carbon also.

[Billfish715]

I think we need a new thread on this and maybe some of the captains and sharpies can chime in on the use and type of circle hook they use. Floro carbon also.[/QUOTE]

Good idea. There are lots of variables and lots of information out there. One bit of information deals with the use of "in-line" circle hooks. They are MANDATORY in some tournaments and in some states. What I was able to learn about snelling these hooks is to make sure the leader is threaded through the eye so it exits on the same side as the point of the hook to make a straight line from the point to the leader.

A separate thread would be a good source of information because of the variables such as hook size, style, brand, knots, livelining or chunking setups.

[bulletbob]

Dumb question. If the fish is going to be released any way, why not just use a finer wire hook, and mash the barb down???.

[Finprof]

In Chesapeake Bay we have been required to use circle hooks with any type of bait for two years. This is the third year coming up. That includes not just striped bass (rockfish) but also panfish so we have to use circle hooks to catch spot for bait and circle hooks to liveline the spot. There is some difficulty finding circle hooks with upturned eye or downturned eye for snelling, but Owner makes a nice 8/0 if you can find them.
With circle hooks baitrunners do not work as well as regular spinning reels. You need some tension on the line to get the fish to hook itself.
We still get gut hooked fish even with 7/0 and 8/0 circle hooks and you don't have the nice hookset feeling any more because you just let the line go tight.
I used to like to hear the baitrunner zinging and then put on the drag and cross his eyes.

[Skolmann]

Diagree. With all due respect that works if what ever fish bass, tuna what ever go straight out and tighten the line themselves. Sometimes they swim toward the boat or in a circle. in this case reel until the line comes tight. The bass will do the rest. Stripers are by no means line shy.

Capt. Sal, you are 100 % correct..when the fish picks up the bait and swims towards you or circles all you need to do is crank like crazy until the line is tight an d you’ll be hooked up.

[Capt Sal]

Dumb question. If the fish is going to be released any way, why not just use a finer wire hook, and mash the barb down???.

Because a fine lite wire will straighten out under pressure. It is like playing catch and release with 10lb test. By the time you land the bass it is dead!

[AndyS]

So the game wardens will drive among the 100 boats fishing a small area for striped bass looking to see who is using circle hooks. They can patrol the 127 miles of coastline to see if you are using circle hooks ??

[NJ219bands]

The mortality rate is BS. If it wasnt, the water would be loaded with dead fish on peak days. In all my years, I have seen only two dead stripers. And they do float. One time, we had one die in the live well and we accidentally went overboard at the dock - no problem, because it floated like a cork.

I saw 2 dead striped bass on the Delaware Bay shore last spring near stake nets. Delaware Bay netters kill thousands of bass every spring.

[Capt Sal]

I saw 2 dead striped bass on the Delaware Bay shore last spring near stake nets. Delaware Bay netters kill thousands of bass every spring.

In the seventies they wiped out the large breeder Weakfish!

[AndyS]

Conservation Police Officers conducted multiple boat patrols last November and December in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) where fishing for, taking and possession of striped bass is unlawful. On each of these patrols CPOs encountered numerous recreational fishermen fishing for and/or in possession of striped bass as far as 10 nautical miles inside the closed area. CPOs Raker, Tomlin, Meyer and Sloan processed several cases where fishermen attempted to evade apprehension by discarding dead striped bass upon the officer’s approach and had multiple instances where boaters attempted to elude apprehension by leaving the area at high speed. Many fishermen were apprehended with as many as eight striped bass in possession. The cases were referred to National Marine Fisheries Service for enforcement action. The fine for possession of striped bass in the EEZ is $500 per fish for the first offense and the fines are as high as $10,000 for Federal interference and making false statements to an authorized officer.

[Capt Sal]

So the game wardens will drive among the 100 boats fishing a small area for striped bass looking to see who is using circle hooks. They can patrol the 127 miles of coastline to see if you are using circle hooks ??

But if they pull up on you quick and you have six lines in the water your busted. What is the big deal just use circle hooks. Charlie Brown is my favorite.

[Duffman]

But if they pull up on you quick and you have six lines in the water your busted. What is the big deal just use circle hooks. Charlie Brown is my favorite.

I think your missing Andy’s point. He’s not saying he’s against using circle hooks. It’s the fact that CO’s are spread so thin there is no way they can cover the entire state to find circle hook violators.

[NJ219bands]

I saw a 6’ 1” woman game warden at Delaware Bay Monday.

[Capt Sal]

I think your missing Andy’s point. He’s not saying he’s against using circle hooks. It’s the fact that CO’s are spread so thin there is no way they can cover the entire state to find circle hook violators.

I agree. There are so many things we as anglers could do with out these laws also. I know you fish Raritan Bay. If you use a small hook and a killie you are going to land a lot of small fluke but most of them swallow it deep. Same with bass.Small hooks work but the mortality rate goes way up.

[Flygaff]

I have used circle hooks for almost all fishing for years. I love them. They always hook in the corner of the mouth for easy release. The only fish I don't use them on is Sea bass & Blackfish. My thoughts on striper regs - 2 fish 24-28 inches.