Raritan Bay Striper Closure

[Gerry Zagorski]

Saw on some Facebook pages people were discussing the possibility of closing the Raritan Bay Striper Fishery in the early spring in order possibly get more favorable state wide regulations. Has anyone seen or heard anything official on this?

[Capt Derek Fisher Price 3]

I made some phone calls earlier in the week to see if I could find out any details. From what I was told they were trying to work it out that there would be no closure. A possibility of not being able to retain a larger fish until a certain time (example: no fish over 35" until 5/15). However they were still waiting to hear from the state and work out details with them with size regulations seasons.

[dakota560]

Gerry I heard from someone in NY last week there's discussions of a closure in lower NY Harbor which includes some portions of Raritan Bay / Sandy Hook in the early spring. He didn't have all the details and decisions haven't been made but discussions along those lines are occurring. NJ has an open season for stripers, NY doesn't. To make matters more complicated they have different season lengths based on points north and south of the GW, one starts 4/1, the other 4/15.

The regulations are all over the board, so whatever the outcome of those discussions are might in fact impact portions of the Bay based on where the line is drawn.

[Gerry Zagorski]

From what I’ve heard so far this was an idea that was brought up and decided against. Please continue to follow so there are no surprises.

[Capt Sal]

Gerry I heard from someone in NY last week there's discussions of a closure in lower NY Harbor which includes some portions of Raritan Bay / Sandy Hook in the early spring. He didn't have all the details and decisions haven't been made but discussions along those lines are occurring. NJ has an open season for stripers, NY doesn't. To make matters more complicated they have different season lengths based on points north and south of the GW, one starts 4/1, the other 4/15.

The regulations are all over the board, so whatever the outcome of those discussions are might in fact impact portions of the Bay based on where the line is drawn.

This would have to be done by the Federal Government as NY has nothing to do with Sandy Hook and almost all of Raritan Bay. Where is the boundry line in the Hudson River? We need much more info on this. NY and NJ will never get together on anything!

[dakota560]

From what I’ve heard so far this was an idea that was brought up and decided against. Please continue to follow so there are no surprises.

Unfortunately fisheries management and surprises are terms synonymous with one another!

[dakota560]

This would have to be done by the Federal Government as NY has nothing to do with Sandy Hook and almost all of Raritan Bay. Where is the boundry line in the Hudson River? We need much more info on this. NY and NJ will never get together on anything!

Capt. Sal,

I'll try getting more information but my belief is this is being driven at the NY state level as part of CE to meet 2020 regulations. NY's regulations currently are divided as shown by the first link and there are in fact different regulations in place for Hudson River and points north of the GWB and marine waters south of the GWB with different seasons. I believe it's the seasons difference, April 1st in one case and April 15th in the other, causing the issue. Maybe NY is trying to barter giving up 15 days in the bay to gain somewhere else. Just speculation so don't run with that but it would be my guess. Fellow I spoke with is well informed so this is not hearsay, it came from a meeting recently attended. He mentioned there's a possibility of the lower NY Bay being impacted with a closure in the spring. Second link identifies the area the lower NY Bay covers labelled "6". Looks like the mouth of the VZ out into parts of Ambrose.

If I find out more, I'll post it here.

https://www.onthewater.com/news/2015/04/22/new-york-saltwater-fishing-regulations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_New_York_Bay#/media/File:Waterways_New_York_City_Map_Julius_Schorzman. png

[Capt Derek Fisher Price 3]

NY is currently looking at a May 1st opener from friends i talked to who were at the last NY meeting.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Suggesting that we close down a fishery in NJ we all sacrificed to rebuild is complete nonsense PERIOD END OF STATEMENT!!

[hammer4reel]

Suggesting that we close down a fishery in NJ we all sacrificed to rebuild is complete nonsense PERIOD END OF STATEMENT!!

Double edged sword here in NJ due to we want to fish for them while they are here .
But killing fish during their prime spawning season if the dumbest thing we can do .
We shouldn’t be keeping any fish during their spawn .
.

And while many lived through the rebuilding , we also see if something doesn’t change it was all for nothing .


.

[Capt John]

Double edged sword here in NJ due to we want to fish for them while they are here .
But killing fish during their prime spawning season if the dumbest thing we can do .
We shouldn’t be keeping any fish during their spawn .
.

And while many lived through the rebuilding , we also see if something doesn’t change it was all for nothing .


.
If you really feel that way about killing spawning females, then how do you explain this....read on from NY DEC.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/NYSDEC/bulletins/275250d

[hammer4reel]

If you really feel that way about killing spawning females, then how do you explain this....read on from NY DEC.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/NYSDEC/bulletins/275250d

If you have been following many of the fluke posts that has been brought up many times .
Commercial highest bag limits are during the peak of the spawn now .
Closing that fishery down now through their winter spawn makes a lot more sense than allowing them to be targeted when they are all concentrated spawning


.

[Capt John]

If you have been following many of the fluke posts that has been brought up many times .
Commercial highest bag limits are during the peak of the spawn now .
Closing that fishery down now through their winter spawn makes a lot more sense than allowing them to be targeted when they are all concentrated spawning


.

Dan,

I have been following many of the posts here and allowing the harvest of Fluke during peak spawn is not good. 1000 fish per boat per week...are you kidding? What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander..yes?

Look, nothing against the commercial guys, they have to make a living too, but why does it have to be on the backs of the recreationals? How about reg's that are a little more fair and equitable to BOTH parties!

[Capt Sal]

It is all a changing fishery. Years ago NY striper season opened May 8. Catch and release and tons of fish. Now they come early like mid April. NY opens April 15 so it cuts the bay in half. To me it is the same body of water just different names. NY and NJ have much different regs. and it hinders everyone. NJ is a producer state so put restrictions on us when we have our spring run and let the states North of us catch and keep what we let go! The feds won't be happy until every for hire boat is gone and recreational fishing is catch and release except for the commercial side. Going to be some happy tree huggers.:eek:

[hammer4reel]

Dan,

I have been following many of the posts here and allowing the harvest of Fluke during peak spawn is not good. 1000 fish per boat per week...are you kidding? What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander..yes?

Look, nothing against the commercial guys, they have to make a living too, but why does it have to be on the backs of the recreationals? How about reg's that are a little more fair and equitable to BOTH parties!

I agree , IMO recruitment (which NMFS centers on) means nothing when egg laden females are taken during the spawn .


Everything we fish for would do better having seasons closed to targeting spawning fish.
Been that way in freshwater for decades, don’t understand why it’s not done for all saltwater fish .

.

[Capt Sal]

I agree , IMO recruitment (which NMFS centers on) means nothing when egg laden females are taken during the spawn .


Everything we fish for would do better having seasons closed to targeting spawning fish.
Been that way in freshwater for decades, don’t understand why it’s not done for all saltwater fish .

.

So if bluefish spawn in July we should close it? Stripers spawn in the spring and in the Hudson our state -close it? Fluke spawn off shore in the winter correct? When do we fish? There is nothing left! We have no winter flounder or weakfish season to speak of.Whiting have been demolished years ago. Maybe they should close Salmon down in Pulaski in the fall when they spawn in the river and Steel Head also. While we are at it close Crappie in the winter when they spawn. Don't forget the tuna lol Give me a break Dan! I agree with most of the things you post but there is a limit my friend.

[hammer4reel]

So if bluefish spawn in July we should close it? Stripers spawn in the spring and in the Hudson our state -close it? Fluke spawn off shore in the winter correct? When do we fish? There is nothing left! We have no winter flounder or weakfish season to speak of.Whiting have been demolished years ago. Maybe they should close Salmon down in Pulaski in the fall when they spawn in the river and Steel Head also. While we are at it close Crappie in the winter when they spawn. Don't forget the tuna lol Give me a break Dan! I agree with most of the things you post but there is a limit my friend.


Sal , the fish we don’t have anymore were all highly targeted during their spawn .
Should be proof enough.
.
I get it , Most of these fish aren’t here all year for us to catch .
And we want to catch them while we can.
So make it a catch and release fishery during the spawn .

salmon are different as they aren’t living through their spawn .

[AndyS]

Just as long as you sign up for the Saltwater Registry all should be fine.

[Oceanroamer]

Restrict it more, but DON'T close it please. 1 small fish? Catch and release? Something. Not full closure.

Plenty of bass. Maybe not tops ever, but many. Many bass in the EEZ, migration changes

[Billfish715]

Raritan Bay in the spring is a staging area for migratory stripers. Some will spawn in the Raritan River, some will spawn in the Navesink/Shrewsbury systems. The majority will spawn upstream in the Hudson. Closing the bay would involve lots of negotiations. There is great fishing for trophy stripers in the Great Kills Harbor area on the SI side of the bay. NJ/NY stripers are all the same in the bay. A closure for one side is a closure for all.....or should be.

If you fish for meat, you'll hate any closures or catch and release measures. If you want to promote striper survival and reproduction, then you may favor closures and catch and release. It took a long time and some very favorable conditions to rebuild the striper fishing in the bay. Then, came the complications. The stripers were big. The idea of coming back to the dock with limit catches of big bass became infectious and commonplace and expected. Everyone became a "striper expert". The money rolled in accordingly. And then, it ended and the numbers and sizes decreased and the questions and excuses began. The true experts still caught fish, but the " come lately " experts who caught bass when they were abundant and susceptible were starting to wane. There are a lot of shattered egos today due to the reduction of numbers of bass to be caught. We don't hear much of bass "experts" any more. Why?

Supply and demand! If you want to return to those days from a decade ago, you'll have to make concessions. When things improve, you'll have to remember. But, by that time we'll have a new crop of "striper experts" and history will repeat itself. Fishermen, whether commercial, charter, or recreational are their own worst enemies.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Raritan Bay in the spring is a staging area for migratory stripers. Some will spawn in the Raritan River, some will spawn in the Navesink/Shrewsbury systems. The majority will spawn upstream in the Hudson. Closing the bay would involve lots of negotiations. There is great fishing for trophy stripers in the Great Kills Harbor area on the SI side of the bay. NJ/NY stripers are all the same in the bay. A closure for one side is a closure for all.....or should be.

If you fish for meat, you'll hate any closures or catch and release measures. If you want to promote striper survival and reproduction, then you may favor closures and catch and release. It took a long time and some very favorable conditions to rebuild the striper fishing in the bay. Then, came the complications. The stripers were big. The idea of coming back to the dock with limit catches of big bass became infectious and commonplace and expected. Everyone became a "striper expert". The money rolled in accordingly. And then, it ended and the numbers and sizes decreased and the questions and excuses began. The true experts still caught fish, but the " come lately " experts who caught bass when they were abundant and susceptible were starting to wane. There are a lot of shattered egos today due to the reduction of numbers of bass to be caught. We don't hear much of bass "experts" any more. Why?

Supply and demand! If you want to return to those days from a decade ago, you'll have to make concessions. When things improve, you'll have to remember. But, by that time we'll have a new crop of "striper experts" and history will repeat itself. Fishermen, whether commercial, charter, or recreational are their own worst enemies.


Gerry - In summary we recreational fishermen are getting screwed by the system....

A few things here from the chart below....
- Even if you catch and release, a 9% mortality rate is assumed so those fish will be counted against your quota.
- We don't have a commercial Striped bass fishery here in NJ since it was closed down years ago. Other states do have a commercial fishery but it amounts to less then 10% of the total landings. The commercial fishery is not the issue here.

Not sure what the answer is here but based on the science and logic being applied, recreational catch and release is assumed to be responsible for more dead fish then recreational and commercial harvests combined. So for those who advocate a closure in order to be effective, catch and release would need to be eliminated as well...

Lastly, Do we really have an issue? I think we do in the Chesapeake stocks and that has been addressed by closures in that area. Do we have an issue in NJ that requires a closure? I don't think we do evidenced by the fact that people in the know caught Stripers all though the summer pretty much at will and there were plenty of Stripers outside the 3 mile line. Have stocks declined here in NJ? I think they could have but not enough to warrant a closure...

You might have a different opinion in that regard and say my evidence is anecdotal and not based on science but do you really trust the science they use and feed us? Take for example how they calculate our landings and mortality rates using Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP). They do random surveys, how many days a week do you fish, how many fish did you keep and how many you released and apply that times the number of salt water licenses or boats?? The system is totally flawed and the worst part about that is how do you actually know if we do or don't have an issue?? https://www.jcaa.org/JCNL1911/1911MRIP.htm


For me the regulations have always been about access and my ability to go fish for something on any given day. As a result, I will always trade more days (access) for Stricter size and bag limits as I feel it's the lesser of two evils.

Let me also be careful to point out I advocate and practice catch and release when it comes to Stripers and I can't even remember keeping a boat limit of them. Once or twice a year we will keep one if someone says they'll eat it or we have a friend who asks for one... That does not however mean I'm against people keeping their limit as that is a personal decision... Once again, to me it's about access which is why I'm against any closures unless its absolutely necessary.

But hey, that's me and your opinion may differ and that's OK.

I think there is one thing we can all agree on.. First and foremost we want to protect the resource since if we don't, they'll be nothing to fish for. Secondly we want to protect our rights to access the public resource and actually be able to fish.. Problem is the current system, science and methodologies are broken and not working for the fish or the fishermen...The System needs a complete overhaul!!

Look at SeaBass.... Completely rebuilt yet we have the same punitive season and bag limits they put in place to recover the stocks?

Look at Fluke..... The commercials get an increase in quota but we recreationals don't?

Want something to make you see how screwed up MRIP is... This from Monty Hawkins
It's a much worse situation than has ever occured before - far worse.

You see, MRIP’s massive overestimates have now wormed their way deeply into NOAA’s stock assessments—their “how many fish are in this population" estimates.
MRIP’s painting of an incorrect picture, a picture with incredibly too high recreational landings - statistical imaginings where just one state's Shore or Private Boats can outfish All Professional Effort in just a few weeks' time is leading to the worst possible result from fisheries management. Remarkably too high MRIP estimates like that happen even more frequently since MRIP's two 'recalibrations.' It's quite common today for All Party/Charter & even All Commercial (combined!) to be outfished by just one state's Private Boat or Shore effort. GERRY: HOW CAN PRIVATE BOATS AND SURF FISHERMEN IN ONE STATE SURPASS THE ENTIRE COMMERCIAL, CHARTER AND PARTY BOAT LANDINGS FOR ALL STATES??
Inclusion of such nonsense because it's called 'scientific information' is tainting every stock assessment it’s included in - lifting fish population estimates far beyond reality.
We've already had major recreational regulatory tightenings owing poorly conceived statistics. That while the commercial community received a 49% boost in summer flounder quota in early 2019 - again based on MRIP recreational catch estimates portrayal of catch that never could have happened.

In summary - We as recreational fishermen are getting screwed by the so called "science"

[AndyS]

Still waiting to see in writing that striped bass spawn in the Raritan river.

[Capt Sal]

Still waiting to see in writing that striped bass spawn in the Raritan river.

They do but only a few.

[Capt Sal]

Jerry Z, Until this swamp is drained we loose. It does not matter if we hire biologists and prove them wrong. They are government employees controlled by lobbyists. Slowly but surely we are loosing every year. We need Trump Jr to get involved. He is a striper fisherman and a sportsman. We will never raise enough money to fight the commercial lobbyists. It is time to have a different plan because like it or not what we have been doing does not work. Do you agree Jerry?

[Billfish715]

From old posts from another site, the jury is still conflicted about striper spawning in the Raritan. There has been some research, but nothing very intense. Common sense says that there is some natural reproduction taking place based on the small bass that are caught in the freshwater sections of the river. Scientific conclusions have not been verified when it comes to how the young 5-6 inch stripers appeared in those freshwater sections. Theories suggest that the YOY (young of year) came from the Hudson River stocks that swam there in search of food. Some fishermen question those conclusions.

I'm a believer that there is some spawning going on, however.

There is quite a bit of conjecture about how Superstorm Sandy affected the distribution of striped bass. There is some supposition about how the YOY were flushed out from the upper Hudson and deposited along the shores of Monmouth County. Again, this is still conjecture and open to debate.

It is agreed that Raritan Bay is a staging area for the Hudson River "tribe" of striped bass before they move up to Kingston and Albany N.Y. They need a certain amount of protection while they are in the bay, hence, the season closure and opening. Catch and release may allow fishermen to get out on the water during a closed season, but there will still be a certain amount of mortality. Closing the season for a longer amount of time will upset lots of people but will save more fish. Of course, once those fish leave, the majority will spawn in the Hudson and head to Long Island Sound and New England. Raritan Bay has only a small window of striper fishing opportunities. It has to be managed wisely and not abused by over-fishing. This all requires restraint and sacrifice if we hope to maintain and restore the striper fishhery to what it was only a few years ago.

[Billfish715]

From old posts from another site, the jury is still conflicted about striper spawning in the Raritan. There has been some research, but nothing very intense. Common sense says that there is some natural reproduction taking place based on the small bass that are caught in the freshwater sections of the river. Scientific conclusions have not been verified when it comes to how the young 5-6 inch stripers appeared in those freshwater sections. Theories suggest that the YOY (young of year) came from the Hudson River stocks that swam there in search of food. Some fishermen question those conclusions.

I'm a believer that there is some spawning going on, however.

There is quite a bit of conjecture about how Superstorm Sandy affected the distribution of striped bass. There is some supposition about how the YOY were flushed out from the upper Hudson and deposited along the shores of Monmouth County. Again, this is still conjecture and open to debate. I'm sure that Sandy had an effect on all of the coastal fishing. Did you notice about when the fishing in the bay started to fall off?

It is agreed that Raritan Bay is a staging area for the Hudson River "tribe" of striped bass before they move up to Kingston and Albany N.Y. They need a certain amount of protection while they are in the bay, hence, the season closure and opening. Catch and release may allow fishermen to get out on the water during a closed season, but there will still be a certain amount of mortality. Closing the season for a longer amount of time will upset lots of people but will save more fish. Of course, once those fish leave, the majority will spawn in the Hudson and head to Long Island Sound and New England. Raritan Bay has only a small window of striper fishing opportunities. It has to be managed wisely and not abused by over-fishing. This all requires restraint and sacrifice if we hope to maintain and restore the striper fishhery to what it was only a few years ago.

[Capt Sal]

From old posts from another site, the jury is still conflicted about striper spawning in the Raritan. There has been some research, but nothing very intense. Common sense says that there is some natural reproduction taking place based on the small bass that are caught in the freshwater sections of the river. Scientific conclusions have not been verified when it comes to how the young 5-6 inch stripers appeared in those freshwater sections. Theories suggest that the YOY (young of year) came from the Hudson River stocks that swam there in search of food. Some fishermen question those conclusions.

I'm a believer that there is some spawning going on, however.

There is quite a bit of conjecture about how Superstorm Sandy affected the distribution of striped bass. There is some supposition about how the YOY were flushed out from the upper Hudson and deposited along the shores of Monmouth County. Again, this is still conjecture and open to debate. I'm sure that Sandy had an effect on all of the coastal fishing. Did you notice about when the fishing in the bay started to fall off?

It is agreed that Raritan Bay is a staging area for the Hudson River "tribe" of striped bass before they move up to Kingston and Albany N.Y. They need a certain amount of protection while they are in the bay, hence, the season closure and opening. Catch and release may allow fishermen to get out on the water during a closed season, but there will still be a certain amount of mortality. Closing the season for a longer amount of time will upset lots of people but will save more fish. Of course, once those fish leave, the majority will spawn in the Hudson and head to Long Island Sound and New England. Raritan Bay has only a small window of striper fishing opportunities. It has to be managed wisely and not abused by over-fishing. This all requires restraint and sacrifice if we hope to maintain and restore the striper fishhery to what it was only a few years ago.
We used to do two charters everyday in the bay and it declined way before Sandy.It was still good but not fantastic. As far as the ocean run we would start the end of the first week of June. That fell apart big time. Lot of theories about that run.Don;t get me wrong we still get a run but nothing like 15 years ago. I believe those Chesapeak fish have a different migration pattern more off shore past the three mile limit. More bunker in late May and june close to shore might help. Shrewsbury Rocks in June was world class for many years .I believe the current has changed there and that has alot to do with it.It is the same in Virginia it has changed and the method of fishing for them has changed. Keep it at one fish and we will be fine.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Jerry Z, Until this swamp is drained we loose. It does not matter if we hire biologists and prove them wrong. They are government employees controlled by lobbyists. Slowly but surely we are loosing every year. We need Trump Jr to get involved. He is a striper fisherman and a sportsman. We will never raise enough money to fight the commercial lobbyists. It is time to have a different plan because like it or not what we have been doing does not work. Do you agree Jerry?

Not going to get political here but suffices to say the current system seems to not be working for the fish or the fishermen so yes we need to try something different.

[bbfisherman]

Until the rec fisherman gets a strong lobby "which is basically impossible" we will get the scraps. Too many agendas and not enough money or clout now

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

Rod and reel will never harm an ocean fishery

[Billfish715]

Not going to get political here but suffices to say the current system seems to not be working for the fish or the fishermen so yes we need to try something different.
Or, it may not have anything to do with systems at all. It might be any number of things in concert or in isolation. Salinity levels, water temps, bait, disease, environmental issues, southern commercial netting, pollution, over fishing etc. might all be contributors.

As Capt. Sal mentioned, the fishing in the bay was at an all-time high just a few years ago. It took a long time to get there, and now it's falling off from those highs, but it's much better than it was 20 years ago. Things can't always be great. There are highs and lows. The regulations got us to those highs. They are not what is causing the decline. There are other issues in play and some of them involve us, the fishermen. Be patient, be sporting, don't be greedy.

We've had great fluke fishing in the bay over the past years. How good was it this year? How was the Reach Channel that always attracted a fleet of boats? A lot of the old spots weren't as good as in the past. Things change. Regulations didn't prevent the keeper fluke from showing up in numbers in the bay. The same is true for the bass. If the spawn was good a few years ago, they will be back I hope the fluke are affected the same way.

[Capt Sal]

In the early 2000 years the stripers were using the Arthur Kill to get to the Hudson. They would stage in the west end of the bay and slowly work there way up the Arthur kill then into the Hudson in May. We were getting bass with Maryland tags in the spring. They still use this rote but in those numbers. There were days in the Arthur Kill when we landed fifty or more stripers in one trip.That is not the case anymore.The route seems to be under the VZ past the statue. The big change has been from chunking to trolling with Mo Jos.Party boats can't troll so they are not depleting the stock at all.Although this thread is about striper i have to say the fluke fishing last year in Raritan Bay was awful. Changing fishery for sure. What are the real numbers and does anyone really know??

[Ry609]

Saw on some Facebook pages people were discussing the possibility of closing the Raritan Bay Striper Fishery in the early spring in order possibly get more favorable state wide regulations. Has anyone seen or heard anything official on this?

First I'm hearing of this, would it be closed even to catch and release?? That would be a travesty