ASMF Striped Bass Regs- 2020

[WESTWIND]

Any word if the ASMFC striped bass regs of 28-35 in will be modified by NJ? 20-38 would be much more palatable and greatly aid the charter and head boats.

[dales529]

Any word if the ASMF striped bass regs of 28-35 in will be modified by NJ? 20-38 would be much more palatable and greatly aid the charter and head boats.

Striped bass proposals will be submitted by the state for technical review by the end of this month, with a decision by ASMFC in early February about which specific state proposals will be allowed. The NJ Marine Fisheries Council is looking at a potential special meeting in February for a final decision.

ASMFC approved an even 18% reduction in mortality for all
conservation equivalency proposals. With the below in mind:
In order to achieve the reduction in mortality, a larger reduction in
HARVEST is needed to account for dead discards. So keep that in mind as you see proposals, the state needs to reduce MORTALITY, which is the sum of
discards and harvest.

Have not seen any NJ proposals yet.

[1captainron]

Start bending over now Capt. Mike....do you really think for a minute anything is going to go in our favor?

[captmark]

Maybe if some of you went to either of the meetings you would know whats happening and you could voice your opinon instead your waiting for them to tell you what and what you can not catch, I love you guys that sit on the bench and bitch but dont spend any time to go and voice your opinon. The last NJ meeting, it was a shame that NO one from North of Manasquan was their. So I quess that some of us are ok with their Regs, sorry for me venting but its obvious some dont care..

[1captainron]

Maybe if some of you went to either of the meetings you would know whats happening and you could voice your opinon instead your waiting for them to tell you what and what you can not catch, I love you guys that sit on the bench and bitch but dont spend any time to go and voice your opinon. The last NJ meeting, it was a shame that NO one from North of Manasquan was their. So I quess that some of us are ok with their Regs, sorry for me venting but its obvious some dont care..

Bullshit Mark...Rob from the Sea Hunter and Myself were at that last meeting. Don't tell me about sitting on the bench and not caring my friend.....All those trips to Washington while others Sailed. Selling frigging Hats & shirts in Atlantic city and all the sports shows trying to raise money for SSFFF. Meeting with Politicians and having to stomach their bullshit while they keep looking at their watch...have you ever done that? Get some facts straight before you go throwing stones at one of the MOST VOCAL people in this business....Have I voiced my opinion enough about this?

[dales529]

Lets face it most of us could attend more meetings than we do. I will say Capt Ron has supported ALL of my efforts for SSFFF and RFA NJ as well as serving on boards and being a vocal supporter of ALL recreational fisheries issues.
Lets not fight each other no matter what region of the state we fish from.
I wish that public comment meant more than it does and it wont until there is one opinion and one voice from the masses of recreational anglers. Sadly we don't have that yet. Whatever the NJ Fisheries council comes up with it will have to meet the harvest reduction and mortality rate @ 18% so don't expect much wiggle room.

Demanding "Slot fish" is a double edge sword as under the current MSA it is believed Slots in any species will increase harvest and mortality rates thus reducing bag and season length even though its not true in all instances.

Also getting a Slot doesn't mean you get that as an extra fish or 1 @ a slot and 1@ at current size. It could mean that's the only fish you get.

[reason162]

Start bending over now Capt. Mike....do you really think for a minute anything is going to go in our favor?

Are you really not happy with a 28-35 slot? I'm sure NJ will find a way to kill a second and possibly 3rd fish, don't worry.

The original proposal was 1@35 but all the party/charter boats went apeshit.

I guess the losers are the Montauk fleet?

[1captainron]

Are you really not happy with a 28-35 slot? I'm sure NJ will find a way to kill a second and possibly 3rd fish, don't worry.

The original proposal was 1@35 but all the party/charter boats went apeshit.

I guess the losers are the Montauk fleet?

After coming home from "That" meeting, my gut was telling me, no way in Hell we will see a 28-35 keeper. Let's hope I'm wrong.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Going to be interesting to see if the bonus program stays in effect. The reason we have this program in NJ is because we don't allow commercial fishing so the recreationals get that quota.

The other thing we face with Stripers is a catch 22 just like Fluke..... You lower the size limits so you're not harvesting the breeders and since the size limits are lower, they assume more fish will be kept...

The science is totally jacked as is MRIP, which is basically a bunch of garbage random survey data that's fed into an arbitrary formula to estimate recreational landings..

I think we can all agree on one thing... If you really care about the health of this or any other fishery, you need accurate data and assumptions in order to make the right decisions. Pretty obvious to me that the decisions made in the past are not working for us or the fish...

[Capt Sal]

Going to be interesting to see if the bonus program stays in effect. The reason we have this program in NJ is because we don't allow commercial fishing so the recreationals get that quota.

The other thing we face with Stripers is a catch 22 just like Fluke..... You lower the size limits so you're not harvesting the breeders and since the size limits are lower, they assume more fish will be kept...

The science is totally jacked as is MRIP, which is basically a bunch of garbage random survey data that's fed into an arbitrary formula to estimate recreational landings..

I think we can all agree on one thing... If you really care about the health of this or any other fishery, you need accurate data and assumptions in order to make the right decisions. Pretty obvious to me that the decisions made in the past are not working for us or the fish...
Do you think they have there mind made up in advance and going to the meeting is just another lesson in frustration?I would still go because the for hire industry needs to be represented. I go to meetings here in Florida and it can be frustrating. In my opinion the Southern states get more support from the recreational sector than do the Northern states.

[hammer4reel]

After coming home from "That" meeting, my gut was telling me, no way in Hell we will see a 28-35 keeper. Let's hope I'm wrong.


That is the size most of the state's pushed for long before NJ even got involved.
It is the size that makes most sense for the entire fishery .

But I'm sure there will plenty of complaints of guys crying releasing big fish over the slot.

.

[dakota560]

Going to be interesting to see if the bonus program stays in effect. The reason we have this program in NJ is because we don't allow commercial fishing so the recreationals get that quota.

The other thing we face with Stripers is a catch 22 just like Fluke..... You lower the size limits so you're not harvesting the breeders and since the size limits are lower, they assume more fish will be kept...

The science is totally jacked as is MRIP, which is basically a bunch of garbage random survey data that's fed into an arbitrary formula to estimate recreational landings..

I think we can all agree on one thing... If you really care about the health of this or any other fishery, you need accurate data and assumptions in order to make the right decisions. Pretty obvious to me that the decisions made in the past are not working for us or the fish...

Gerry I couldn't agree more with yours and Dave's position. Here's the fundamental problem most fisheries face, MSA will not change in our lifetime and decisions are being made based on "highly uncertain and questionable" data as the Statistical and Science Center's "SSC'S own staff members describe it. MRIP is a complete guess and an unproven process. Look at the attached chart, in particular years 2009 through 2017, last two columns. Recreational landings in both metric tons and numbers were revised upwards based on the NEW MRIP system with landings increasing on average over those 9 years by 141% from previous recreational catch levels used in marine fisheries models, 208% in 2017 alone. This is the data being used to manage the fishery and establish policy decisions, variances of that magnitude point to an out of control process. Add to that certain Council members own admission recruitment numbers might be wrong because of the ineffective means used to collect and quantify those statistics and you have the two most significant attributes of the fishery using highly questionable data making decisions which decide the fisheries and it's constituent's fate.

Also take note in the attached chart the statistics between 1989 and 2003 in the first two columns. Metric tons harvested versus number of fish harvested. Between 1989 and 2003, metric tons harvested recreationally has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY but disproportionate compared to the lesser decline in number of fish harvested. Why.......we're being mandated by size regulations to harvest the larger breeders and being penalized in the process with higher discard rates as Dave and Gerry both mentioned. We're in a very tenuous position with this fishery. Reduce size limits with slots and possession limits and catch levels get cut. Increase size limits and the gender imbalance it creates in the spawning biomass intensifies, recruitment levels continue their decline as does the biomass and again catch levels get cut. Add to that 70% - 75% of commercial harvest occurs during the fall / winter offshore migration commensurate with the stocks spawn and it's game over for this fishery.

Slot limits are used as a means by fishery management to regulate the harvest of certain size fish, in particular to maximize the protection of breeders to promote and protect reproduction. To Dave and Gerry's point, fishery management penalizes us for the increased harvest slots sizes will provide but ignores the intended upside benefits of significantly enhancing the reproductive pool with billions more eggs annually by protecting the breeders with the added benefit of lower discard rates if lesser size fish are allowed to be harvested in filling possession limits. Exactly why the spawning biomass between 1989 and 2003 grew by 900% with catch levels in excess of 50% greater than today and size limits for a majority of that period between 13" and 15.5" compared to the higher levels mandated today. Harvest the younger less fecund and in many cases sexually immature fish and allow the breeders to perpetuate the stock. Pretty basic concept that fishery management and MSA refuses to factor in to policy decisions so the result is we all suffer the consequences of poor decisions and ineffective outdated legislation.

Second preferred fishery management tool to sustain fisheries are closed seasons or restricted areas during the spawn. Freshwater fisheries management employs this method religiously and successfully with a number of species including small mouths, large mouths, walleye, salmon and trout (where natural reproduction occurs) etc, to name a few. If the striped bass and summer flounder spawns aren't protected, it won't matter what slot limits are adopted because the benefits of protecting breeder fish will never be realized if the spawn itself isn't offered the same protection which it never has in the case of summer flounder. Biggest mistake the Commission and Council are making in my opinion. Recruitment declines for two decades and the authoritative bodies ignore the harm unabated commercial harvest is likely having during the fall / winter offshore migration. Fishery policies which don't recognize the need to protect and promote recruitment are doomed to fail, we're witnessing it first hand.

The process is as screwed up as it could possibly be and as Dave mentioned we have no voice and as Gerry mentioned bad data will always result in bad decisions and MRIP unless changed will mark the end of the recreational fishing community for every species of fish. Wait until you see the changes currently being proposed by the Monitoring Committee for 2020 and beyond with summer flounder, bass, porgies, bluefish and BSB. Be prepared to dust off the "Enough is enough" shirts because 2020 regulations for the recreational sector are going to make 2017 regulations look benign.

[reelfitter]

My two cents worth. I can tell you this, Virginia put a slot on the Red Drum years ago. Since that time, they have made miraculous recovery. All that needs to happen now is to keep Omega Protein from sucking up everything in the Chesapeake bay. Striper included folks! Those nets don't know a striper from a Menhaden. Slots work!

[Capt Sal]

My two cents worth. I can tell you this, Virginia put a slot on the Red Drum years ago. Since that time, they have made miraculous recovery. All that needs to happen now is to keep Omega Protein from sucking up everything in the Chesapeake bay. Striper included folks! Those nets don't know a striper from a Menhaden. Slots work!

Raritan Bay is the same! We can't even keep purse seiners out of the bay but NY can/?? These are bait boats not reduction boats. Not one Governor ever from New Jersey would address this. It is the same body of water and NY does not allow them in the bay.