Dogfish Everywhere

[Moonzy1]

Are there more this year than previously?
Went Sea Bassin Weds and covered many lock and load spots from 15 miles out of Squan to the Resor and Doggies everywhere. Couldnt lose them.

I cant remember them ever being nearly this bad before.

Sounds like they pulled back the commercial quota for 2019 too.

[NJ219bands]

I caught one in Manasquan Inlet yesterday evening on an Ava. That was my eleventh species of fish caught there this year.

[bulletbob]

Can't be.. they're going extinct.
There must be some pigment on your imagination:) bob

[Gerry Zagorski]

All over the place inshore as well on crabs while Blackfishing

[bunkatabunka]

On wednesday, tog jig would barely hit the bottom before the dogs would jump on it. Kind with the spike on the back too. :mad: Several times they came right up to the boat in big schools just under the surface

[EddieG]

Ha... went out of Brielle yesterday on a all day boat after two hours of drop and reel dog fishing and more rigs I can count I took a nap ... best 85 dollar nap I ever had.

[No Bananas]

Ha... went out of Brielle yesterday on a all day boat after two hours of drop and reel dog fishing and more rigs I can count I took a nap ... best 85 dollar nap I ever had.

At least you got to bend the pole :D

[Flygaff]

Yea they are everywhere. I should try eating one or two to see if that may be an option. I went out with a couple of buddies about a week ago for sea bass. We caught over 60 dogs in under two hours.

[AndyS]

Fillet and release

[Jigman13]

They taste awful, i dont care what anyone says. I've had them prepped by skilled chefs and graduates of CIA. Nope. Unless your palate doesnt mind the waft of urea after each bite they're not good--period.

I had it after a 24 hour brine then deep fry and it was gross. I imagined it being comparable to eating a crunchy, freshly pissed on urinal cake LOL...

This was a smaller dog, bled and gutted immediately and skinned out shortly after and submerged in salt water ice bath.

[jmurr711]

they taste fine just take care of them prior.

[Duffman]

they taste fine just take care of them prior.

Coming from you I wouldn’t exactly say that’s a ringing endorsement....:D

[Skolmann]

Coming from you I wouldn’t exactly say that’s a ringing endorsement....:D

Fact

[bulletbob]

They taste awful, i dont care what anyone says. I've had them prepped by skilled chefs and graduates of CIA. Nope. Unless your palate doesnt mind the waft of urea after each bite they're not good--period.

I had it after a 24 hour brine then deep fry and it was gross. I imagined it being comparable to eating a crunchy, freshly pissed on urinal cake LOL...

This was a smaller dog, bled and gutted immediately and skinned out shortly after and submerged in salt water ice bath.

We most be doing something wrong on this side of the Atlantic.. They are widely eaten all over Europe, and as we know, "real" fish and chips in the UK is made with dogs..

My brother when he was in the Military years ago went on a party boat in Britain.. Captain said they would catch "Rock Salmon".. My brother was astonished when the rock salmon were hounds!.. Everyone was keeping them to eat, along with an assortment of European Congers, Pout like fish, and other nasty bottom creeping critters that we skeeve on this side of the Atlantic..
I have never tried one, but I too have heard you can't get rid of the piss vibe no matter how hard you try.... Not for me brother, The UK can have every last one... bob

[Jigman13]

rock salmon were hounds!.. Everyone was keeping them to eat, along with an assortment of European Congers, Pout like fish, and other nasty bottom creeping critters that we skeeve on this side of the Atlantic..


The end result of over-fishing with several centuries head start I presume...

[jmurr711]

everyone who I give it to loves them I see it in restaurants now to as "cape" shark

[bulletbob]

everyone who I give it to loves them I see it in restaurants now to as "cape" shark

I thought you were bullshitting us, but you are 100% correct!

http://www.portclydefreshcatch.com/maine-cape-shark/

[Moonzy1]

I thought you were bullshitting us, but you are 100% correct!

http://www.portclydefreshcatch.com/maine-cape-shark/

This is really interesting.

Maybe there is something to prepping them. Ive never tried.

BTW...Fished out of Long Island on friends boat yesterday and ran 50 miles to a wreck then proceeded to have an epic jumbo Sea Bass beatdown of all day. 3-5 lbers coming over the rail 3 and 4 at a time. Some doggies too but nothing iike we are experiencing here.

Perhaps we are getting a concentrated migration at peak here.

Buddy even caught one on troll for stripers...crazy

[jigmup]

Good crab bait

[Pauls1976]

Use to be a Swedish family in our marina that would be upset that we didn’t keep them. They told me the trick is to gut, bleed and put them on ice right away. Haven’t tried it myself, not in a rush to either but people who I know that have tried it, all say good things

[Jigman13]

We did gut, bleed put into salt water ice slurry. Then skin and brined. It was disgusting. Lol. That's just me I guess

[Wilson]

From Wikipedia's info on Cape Shark.....

It's named dogfish since the fish travel in packs just like dogs, as it's key to their eating habits. It's a mild, white fish with a large flake, which makes it a nice substitute for cod. It retains some of the flavor of what it eats, which includes crustaceans and smaller fish.

[Harpoon]

Captain purposely didn’t put clam on the boat this weekend prior to heading out for Ling/cbass/flounders. All gulp affair ...Only 2 dog fish hooked while getting plenty of targeted species.

As the Ling were coming up they had dog fish on them, sometime multiple.

[Moonzy1]

Captain purposely didn’t put clam on the boat this weekend prior to heading out for Ling/cbass/flounders. All gulp affair ...Only 2 dog fish hooked while getting plenty of targeted species.

As the Ling were coming up they had dog fish on them, sometime multiple.

Tried that
They were even taking jigs...didnt matter the day I was out. They would have eaten a brick paver

[PaBeerGuy]

They taste awful, i dont care what anyone says. I've had them prepped by skilled chefs and graduates of CIA. Nope. Unless your palate doesnt mind the waft of urea after each bite they're not good--period.

I had it after a 24 hour brine then deep fry and it was gross. I imagined it being comparable to eating a crunchy, freshly pissed on urinal cake LOL...

This was a smaller dog, bled and gutted immediately and skinned out shortly after and submerged in salt water ice bath.
they pee through their muscle, no urinary tract. That's why they taste like crap.

[Pennsy Guy]

they pee through their muscle, no urinary tract. That's why they taste like crap.

True^^^...only the Thresher and Mako sharks have a bladder---don't know if it's just the shortfin or all Makos; assuming it's all Makos(we all know about assuming LOL)...

[Jigman13]

they pee through their muscle, no urinary tract. That's why they taste like crap.

Yes, I'm aware.

Mackeral sharks do not skin piss... makos, porbeagles, salmon and whites. And threshers but they're obviously not a mackeral shark.

[Capt. Lou]

Anyone ever get involved in changing dogfish regulations ? Complaining doesn’t get it done . Write a letter , I did off n on for 5 years however not much changed!
The overseas market has apparently dried up and commercial fishermen don’t bother , no money in it even though I believe their quota was recently increased.
When I was hot on getting change in those laws there was a woman that was in charge of that issue .
Not sure who’s in charge today , but everyone complains but to the wrong people like on this site , your preaching to the choir !
Write letters get congressmen involved that’s the only hope to change those those ridiculous laws !

[porgylber]

What are the natural predators of the dogfish? Just other sharks? :confused:

[Chrisper4694]

What are the natural predators of the dogfish? Just other sharks? :confused:

me

[CadiShackFishing]

Maybe petition the State to put a "bounty" on them as they are endangering other species. :rolleyes:

[Moonzy1]

Anyone ever get involved in changing dogfish regulations ? Complaining doesn’t get it done . Write a letter , I did off n on for 5 years however not much changed!
The overseas market has apparently dried up and commercial fishermen don’t bother , no money in it even though I believe their quota was recently increased.
When I was hot on getting change in those laws there was a woman that was in charge of that issue .
Not sure who’s in charge today , but everyone complains but to the wrong people like on this site , your preaching to the choir !
Write letters get congressmen involved that’s the only hope to change those those ridiculous laws !

I believe there is an opportunity here to do something.

Commercial quotas have in fact been almost cut in half from last year...46%
53% since 2016 due to reduced dramatically reduced demand. What was primarily an export market has dried up due in part to high mercury and pcb levels in the meat. Unacceptable by European standards...But ok for US...Go figure?! Next meeting on quota and biomass evolution not scheduled until 2021 o this may only get worse.

There is a Dogfish Advisory council governing the matter and they have openly asked for public opinion on this topic.

Perhaps regulations that allow us or the government to start culling the population is a matter of a formal request w petition??

The dogfish have one of the longest gestational periods of any animal. Something like 18-24 months...live birth to 2-12 at a time and do not reach sexual maturity until 12 years. A culling program could prove very effective given these parameters.

Ive never done this but am happy to take the first step. I have no issue starting a dialogue w them since the board members have emails publicly posted.

W no opposition to this given the lack of demand and commercial interest, maybe this isn't such a tall mountain to climb.

Anyone else familiar w the process?

[Capt. Lou]

If you decide to pursue , it’s going to be a long haul issue ! Indifference by most anglers is going to be your toughest issue . Everyone complains but I’ll bet hardly any angler on this site or any other took to writing a letter to those in charge of this disaster !
Its probably costing us tons of gamefish fry as well since they scavenge for food relentlessly !
Keep us posted I’d love to monitor individual actions taken besides complaining on this and other sites !
This has to be dealt with some dam how. Don’t get your hopes up for any quick answers !

[Moonzy1]

If you decide to pursue , it’s going to be a long haul issue ! Indifference by most anglers is going to be your toughest issue . Everyone complains but I’ll bet hardly any angler on this site or any other took to writing a letter to those in charge of this disaster !
Its probably costing us tons of gamefish fry as well since they scavenge for food relentlessly !
Keep us posted I’d love to monitor individual actions taken besides complaining on this and other sites !
This has to be dealt with some dam how. Don’t get your hopes up for any quick answers !

Thanks Capt!
Ive already sent a few emails for initial contact.

I recognize and am prepared that nothing may change overnight. But doing nothing will get nothing as well, while the dogfish vacuum the ocean floor. Using social media and other means, we may be able to push the needle faster than we make think without the effort historically needed.

I dont mind doing some work to see where it may go. There actually may be a hidden opportunity here.


There are 2 individuals in NJ that sit on the board. One I have emailed already.The other is a Captain who runs a gill netting vessel named Dana Christine II. Capt Kevin Wark out of Barnegat Light. Does anyone know him? Id like to make contact. He sits on the advisory panel. I cannot locate an email.

Thanks!

Will keep you posted.

[Moonzy1]

PS- should you be able to locate a contact, please pm me privately. Perhaps the contact info is purposely not posted for privacy.

thx

[Moonzy1]

Hey Capt Lou,
Just had a lengthy conversation w the lead researcher for the Dogfish Advisory Council.

Very good guy whose been there for 13 yrs and really knows his research. Very open and pragmatic as well w his opinion and approach to this. Did not rush and took me through much data on a Friday night. That speaks to me on his commitment to what he is doing.

Setting a few assumptions to fact:

1. Quotas are solely calculated by biomass estimates. Completely non dependent on market demand.

2. Quota was lowered due to lower estimates on biomass

3. While the market has diminished, most of the caught doggies are still being processed and shipped overseas.

I would not be too fast to assume the powers that be are clueless and dont care about rec fisherman.

This guy is a rec fisherman himself and appreciates what we have to say.

He also recognizes the limitations to their research metrics and methods. The Spiny dog in particular is a tough animal to estimate due to its large range *with respect to depth) and ability to operate at different levels of the water column. Current research methods are bottom trawls.. If they are higher in the column, they will be missed and end calculations off.

They are fairly suspect that the biomass estimates are likely low but they have to go off the data they have and are trying to improve methods.

One of the check metrics they use are bycatch by commercial vessels targeting different species. I feel this is a fair cross checking method.

Interestingly, the by-catch numbers do seem to follow their populations estimates w relatively similar changes.

So there will be no culling nor will there be a bounty. These are not an invasive species and they will not wipe out one species for the sake of others. I agree w this philosophy too.

However data does exist that suggests they have seem to have replaced other populations like cod. perhaps they rose in stock as the cod stock was weak?? (I asked what his thoughts were on dogs taking out other species, cod stocks in particular)

So this is all great but what can we do ??

We can learn about the market demand and what may be done to improve it like find new ways to use the dogs. I have a few ideas. learn how the economics affect this fishery (namely the fishermen who are supported by it). These are local boats and I think working w them and creating ideas is the way to go.

I think the goal is to find solutions that satisfy a benefit for all including the ecosystem.

W an improved market, things like trip limits and federal limitations may be loosened or changed to make for a more healthy fishery.

I am pursuing a few items from here like speaking w the commercial fishermen themselves to better understand all the variables.

[Capt Joe]

Maybe petition the State to put a "bounty" on them as they are endangering other species. :rolleyes:

No more damaging than cormorants. Need a bounty on them. Btw, very few dogs on offshore grounds now...keep em inshore!:D:D

[Capt. Lou]

Prior to quotas being initiated, I don’t believe there was a dogfish issue that was recognizable to salt water anglers .
Since the enactment of quotas the foreign and domestic markets were crushed and now we have dogfish in practically every waterway in the northeast !
You and I as anglers are nor responsible nor is the commercial fishermen , so who is ? Anyone ! And don’t piss up my leg and tell me raining . Maybe it’s time for straight answers , that oughta be easy , correct !
Maybe it is Bounty Time ! They would love the thought of that being a better conservation solution then they can come under with present conditions !

[Moonzy1]

Prior to quotas being initiated, I don’t believe there was a dogfish issue that was recognizable to salt water anglers .
Since the enactment of quotas the foreign and domestic markets were crushed and now we have dogfish in practically every waterway in the northeast !
You and I as anglers are nor responsible nor is the commercial fishermen , so who is ? Anyone ! And don’t piss up my leg and tell me raining . Maybe it’s time for straight answers , that oughta be easy , correct !
Maybe it is Bounty Time ! They would love the thought of that being a better conservation solution then they can come under with present conditions !

Are you saying the quotas are what caused the market demand to drop?

[Capt. Lou]

It may be, to be honest I lost track of all my communications on this issue . I know prior to regs , dogfish were never an issue like today !
I never caught them in any bay , primarily offshore waters , however you could easily fish through them.
On the giant tuna grounds we encountered them sometimes more than we’d like but not in school like we see today !
I believe once commercial quotas were enacted this all changed for the worse !
If the overseas market demand was lost , then commercial fishermen left them alone and we fish around the result of those laws !
If this is not in direct relationship to this dogfish debacle, I’d like to know what the cause was and why it wasn't addressed years ago .

[bulletbob]

Nature does not tolerate a vacuum.. With the demise of other cold water predators, Cod,Pollock, various Hake species Wolffish on more northern grounds, the most adaptable and resilient predator will step in to fill the void.. Dogs will eat young Cod, Pollock Hake, its true, but they all will eat young Dogs as well, Cod especially were a known predator of young sharks..

We like to eat cod, Pollack, hake in this country. White meat, non oily as most Americans favor when eating fish .

. So we caught them and ate them, and left the dogs alone.. When the commercial netters had no marketable groundfish left, they switched to Dogfish and had a ready market in Europe. Then we discover after a time that THEY are faltering as well, and are protected.. Not sure what happened but it seems the mutts are back and with a vengeance and ferocity, while the groundfish that live in the same space and on the same diet, are still MIA... bob

[Capt. Lou]

Another factor that literally killed our local ground fishery , our enactment of the 200 mile limit ! Kept the foreign vessels at bay but the commercial guys had a field day ! Anyone offshore in the 70’s n 80’s was witness to miles of ground fish discards !
Ya we got the foreign fleet out but our local commercials finished the job without any laws governing much of anything , that’s what created your vacuum !

[bulletbob]

Another factor that literally killed our local ground fishery , our enactment of the 200 mile limit ! Kept the foreign vessels at bay but the commercial guys had a field day ! Anyone offshore in the 70’s n 80’s was witness to miles of ground fish discards !
Ya we got the foreign fleet out but our local commercials finished the job without any laws governing much of anything , that’s what created your vacuum !

Its not letting up either.. Whiting the size of Smelts being sold everywhere .. Those poor fish are netted, sold and eaten before they can even reach sexual maturity which happens at about 2 years in Whiting ,which grow fast, and can spawn 3 times in the summer spawning season.. That fishery can be built back up within a few years if they weren't being netted when the damn things are 9 inches long.. Now I am seeing foot long "fresh" Bluefish being marketed in friggin' 2 packs for about $13-14.. People are buying them I guess. They are always there.
We are never going to get some of these species restored if it keeps up this way.. I dont think its water quality/global warming/habitat degradation/ lack of forage/ They are simply getting caught and eaten before they can grow to a proper size, and before they can even replace themselves by reproducing.
The ecosystem loses balance when one part of it is removed..

Its pretty simple.. If you constantly take the nice looking, nice tasting species that everyone likes to eat out of the system, the nasty looking ,nasty eating species take over the system. bob

[porgylber]

For anyone that has done some inshore blackfishing lately. How are the doggies? Are they still swarming? I’m thinking about getting out in the next couple of days. Thanks.