Fluke Comments to ASMFC

[Billfish715]

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This is worthy enough to be posted on its own merits. It's a copy of a reply to comments made in the post about fluke management. Send your comments in ASAP. If we just complain to each other, we will never be heard by the people who set the regulations.

Learned that complaining about regulations on this or any site might feel good but does little if anything addressing the issues being groused about.

For anyone interested, ASMFC (Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission) and MAFMC (Mid-Atlantic Marine Fisheries Council) will be having their Joint Meeting next Monday through Thursday October 7th - 10th. MAFMC is hosting this year's meeting in Durham NC. Their web site link is

http://www.mafmc.org/council-events/...ouncil-meeting

On the left hand side of the web page, there's an area listing upcoming events. October 2019 Council Meeting is listed at the top. Click on the meeting and you can see the agenda. This is a webinar so anyone can dial in and listen. On Tuesday, October 8th from 4:00 to 5:00, 2020 Summer Flounder Specifications is on the agenda, tab 12. If you open tab 12 under Briefing Material, pages 37 to 81 there's an Executive Summary along with prior correspondence with both the Commission and Council addressing what's happened to this fishery. I'd suggest reading it as it gives a step by step explanation supported by marine fisheries own peer reviewed data of how regulatory decisions have impacted a once thriving fishery.

I'd also point everyone here to the following instruction for public comments:

Public Comments: Written comments must be received by 11:59 p.m. on September 25, 2019 to be included in the briefing book. Comments received after this date but before 5:00 p.m. on October 3, 2019 will be posted as supplemental materials on the Council meeting web page. After that date, all comments must be submitted using an online comment form available at available at http://www.mafmc.org/public-comment.

You want your opinions and comments recorded and heard by the public, Commission and Council, you have until Wednesday at 5:00 p.m. to post them on MAFMC's website, the above link will walk you through the process. What that means is your concerns. thoughts, frustrations will be documented on their website for the meeting under Supplemental Comments and available for the Commission, Council and Public's review.

Now's the time as Mike Wells would say to "Put Up Or Shut Up". Decision is up to everyone here.

There should be a thousand comments from this site alone. Balls in each of your courts. If everyone else waits for someone else to take the lead, prepare for more cuts. If you want to make a difference, are concerned about the state of the fishery or want to have your voice and opinion heard, time to get involved. I'd suggest this for recreational anglers, commercial community, party boat captains, for hire operators and any business dependent on a fishery headed south for almost 16 years. If we do or say nothing, we're no different than the people our frustrations are aimed at.

Make a difference or at minimum try.

FYI, at this stage the only way for your comments to meat the deadline for Supplemental Material Disclosure is by emailing them as mentioned on the website to:

Executive Director, Dr. Chris Moore at cmoore@mafmc.org. I would also copy Kiley Dancy at kdancy@mafmc.org and be sure to request your comments be included in the Supplemental Material for the meeting. Kiley has been a tremendous assist and extremely responsive as has Dustin Leaning from ASMFC creating this platform so again if you want your voices heard, take advantage of the opportunity.

[Ry609]

Done. Not nearly as extensive and detailed as Tom's comment, but at least sent them my 2 cents worth. Thanks for reposting

[TomKaye]

Likewise. E-mailed my comments just now as suggested.
Hopefully these folks are as concerned about our heirs' enjoyment of the sport.

[hartattack]

Sent.

Reminder - the emailed comments are due on Wed by 5pm

Also please dial into Fluke portion of Webinar on 8-Oct:
4:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m. Summer Flounder 2020 Specifications
Briefing Materials (Tab 12) : https://static1.squarespace.com/static/511cdc7fe4b00307a2628ac6/t/5d8e3811aaf0456f3557619a/1569601560658/Tab12_Summer-Flounder-Specifications_2019-10.pdf <---- Included here are Dakota Tom's elaborate notes to ASFMC using ASFMC's OWN DATA to PROVE the regs are not working as intended. See 'ya at the meeting Tom.

During Webinar there is a chatbox that is monitored and included in meeting minutes. DAkota Tom and I filled the chatbox last year, hopefully this year we get some traction !!

[tuna john]

reading this is just amazing. so far best lines yet

Because commercial discards resulted in the commercial ACL being exceeded in 2017 and likely in 2018 as well, trends in commercial discards should continue to be monitored closely for potential future incorporation into ACT recommendations. However, commercial catch and landings limits were increased substantially in 2019 and will be maintained at this higher level for 2020 and 2021. so overfish and well increase your quota

[Merle31483]

Done deal thanks

[Billfish715]

reading this is just amazing. so far best lines yet

Because commercial discards resulted in the commercial ACL being exceeded in 2017 and likely in 2018 as well, trends in commercial discards should continue to be monitored closely for potential future incorporation into ACT recommendations. However, commercial catch and landings limits were increased substantially in 2019 and will be maintained at this higher level for 2020 and 2021. so overfish and well increase your quota

Hey John....... Forward this to the email addresses listed in the post, but do it soon. Griping among ourselves is doing very little to help the situation. Send your comments, for now, to the two people that are referenced. We should easily be able to send out a thousand comments in two days.

[dakota560]

Cutoff date for public comments to be included as Supplemental Material for next week's Joint Commission / Council meeting is 5:00 p.m. Thursday October 3rd, not Wednesday or today as I initially posted. My mistake. Please take the time to post your comments if you want your opinions regarding the fishery recorded and known.

Appreciate everyone's effort getting involved.

[dakota560]

reading this is just amazing. so far best lines yet

Because commercial discards resulted in the commercial ACL being exceeded in 2017 and likely in 2018 as well, trends in commercial discards should continue to be monitored closely for potential future incorporation into ACT recommendations. However, commercial catch and landings limits were increased substantially in 2019 and will be maintained at this higher level for 2020 and 2021. so overfish and well increase your quota

Please check your pm's.

[Brewlugger]

Comment sent. It's easy. Thanks guys.

[No Keepers]

Comments sent to Executive Director Moore.

[Ttmako]

I think we need a singular voice or comment in the comments we provide.
Is there a clear concise comment that we all could copy and paste into the link provided earlier.
Walt Whitman i am not.

[bender]

attached is my brief email to Mr. Moore
Our comments do not need to be eloquent.... only heard.

Greetings DR. Moore,

I would like to request that my comments be in included in the supplemental material at the upcoming council meeting.

Regarding Summer Flounder Stocks:
• It is purely common sense that if you are trying to rebuild a fish stock, it should not be possible for said stock to be fished commercially DURING THE PRIME SPAWNING PERIOD, AT THE PRIME SPAWNING GROUNDS!
• It is purely common sense that if you are trying to rebuild a fish stock, the minimum size limit should not be so large that only prime breeding females are able to be legally harvested by recreational anglers.

Respectfully,

Michael Yocius
Bridgeton, NJ
mike@rclsolar.com

[Down The Hatch]

I have thrown my two cents into the hat. Hope something positive comes out of all of this. Very easy to send comments.

[Fortunate Son]

Email sent to both contacts this morning calling for a slot limit and a ban on commercial netting.

[tuna john]

Hey John....... Forward this to the email addresses listed in the post, but do it soon. Griping among ourselves is doing very little to help the situation. Send your comments, for now, to the two people that are referenced. We should easily be able to send out a thousand comments in two days.

done. I have been reading the entire piece I can't believe what I'm reading. especially that they know what actual commercial discards are and yet choose to use scientific garbage that is much lower and not actual

[tuna john]

my comments.

I have been fishing for over 30 years, and sadly as restrictions have tightened the fishing has gotten worse. One would believe larger size limits and reduced quota would help rebuild overfishing, but in the case of Fluke and sea bass we can see after years it has in fact gotten much worse. As noted in the comments almost 95% of the fluke over 18 inches are breeders and they are the ones recs are killing(if we are lucky). Fishing in cape may nj this was the worst season I have ever seen. I stated last few years it can’t get any worse but surely it has. We would go trips without even catching any keepers and some not even shorts. I would imagine it is very hard to keep 2 sides happy as well as do what’s best for the fishery but in the case of Fluke and sea bass we are making it worse. After reading tab 12 what troubled me most was this.


Because commercial discards resulted in the commercial ACL being exceeded in 2017 and likely in 2018 as well, trends in commercial discards should continue to be monitored closely for potential future incorporation into ACT recommendations. However, commercial catch and landings limits were increased substantially in 2019 and will be maintained at this higher level for 2020 and 2021. To me the recreational angler this says overfish and well increase your quota. Seems greatly unfair especially for two more years when the fishery is in dire trouble.

2nd alarming comment

Extremely revealing chart regarding commercial discards comparing percentages on observed trawls to percentages obtained from FVTR’s. Source is 57th SAW page 302. Could not find comparable information in 66th SAW Assessment Report. If available, would be interested in reviewing years 2012 – 2017. The disparity between observed versus unobserved discard rates (those reported on VTR’s) is substantial and if representative would have significant implications quantifying annual commercial catch levels and associated discard mortality rates.


Why would actual vessel trips be ignored and flawed scientific dat be used when we have factual???

One other comment is MRIP. It has been proven time and time again how flawed and unrealistic the data actually is, yet we continue to us it. In today era of technology there is no reason not to have anglers report their catch via some sort of app, Yes some would be resistant and not have the technology but I think far more anglers would provide data if they knew it would be for the good of the fishery. Please consider in this meeting lowering the size limits for recreational fisherman as well as preventing off shore decimation during the prime breeding season in the offshore canyons.

Concerned Angler

[dakota560]

Read the following two articles regarding commercial squid harvest.

https://www.mvtimes.com/2016/09/07/squid-trawlers-leave-wake-death-south-marthas-vineyard/

and

http://n-magazine.com/somethings-fishy/

I bring it up because there's been many posts as to why summer flounder fishing is so much better out east than in local waters. Less commercial fishing pressure is one reason, huge amounts of restricted areas closed to ground fishing is another. BUT another reason is the amount of squid that inhabit their local waters, a primary forage fish for fluke.

Read the two attached articles and it'll make you realize the amount of waste involved in the commercial harvest. First article / video (video is at end of article) reminds me of the days years ago when acres of baby ling and whiting were scattered throughout the Mudhole area and we know the outcome of that story. Second article further magnifies the extent of the problem. Two comments stand out:

"Last year, commercial fishing boats were allowed under existing federal rules to harvest 19 million pounds of squid between May and August, even though the quota for that period was only 8.4 million pounds."

and

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council in June endorsed a package of regulatory changes that would limit the future expansion of the fishery and reduce the squid catch in summer months when squid are spawning. "POSITIVE DECISION BY MAFMC" Squid are easier to catch when they are spawning because they aggregate. "SAME PROBLEM WITH SUMMER FLOUNDER" Females lay as many as three hundred eggs encased within gelatinous capsules that are anchored to the seafloor. Dragging their nets on the bottom, fishing trawlers dislodge the capsules from the ocean floor.

While some squid fishermen contend that this process helps distribute the eggs, researchers contend otherwise. Working with squid in captivity, Roger Hanlon, a senior scientist at the Marine Resources Center in Woods Hole, found that dislodging eggs causes the eggs to hatch prematurely. Because their stomachs have yet to be fully formed, they are unable to eat. “Those animals do not survive,” he says. “They are all dead.”

Precisely what I believe is happening with summer flounder as 64% of the commercial summer flounder catch, most of which is harvested in the fall and winter months during the spawn, comes from three areas 616, 537 and 613 which are all located south and east of Long Island / Montauk around the continental shelf. Highly concentrated schools being harvested all winter long.

Keep harvesting during their spawn and shrinking the stocks food source and they'll search out areas with sufficient forage which many will attribute to geographic movement the result of other factors.

Fisheries management is as much if not more about catch composition as it is about overall catch, protecting and promoting recruitment and considering the consequences environmental and policy decisions are having on the overall food chain. If there's an imbalance in any of those three, the fishery will struggle. Summer flounder has a serious problem with two of the three.

5:00 TODAY IS THE CUTOFF FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS, PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS COMING. THERE'S NO GUARANTEES BUT YOUR OPINIONS MATTER AND THEY CAN ONLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE BETTER SO THERE'S ONLY UPSIDE.

[Rocky]

Read the following two articles regarding commercial squid harvest.

https://www.mvtimes.com/2016/09/07/squid-trawlers-leave-wake-death-south-marthas-vineyard/

and

http://n-magazine.com/somethings-fishy/

I bring it up because there's been many posts as to why summer flounder fishing is so much better out east than in local waters. Less commercial fishing pressure is one reason, huge amounts of restricted areas closed to ground fishing is another. BUT another reason is the amount of squid that inhabit their local waters, a primary forage fish for fluke.

Read the two attached articles and it'll make you realize the amount of waste involved in the commercial harvest. First article / video (video is at end of article) reminds me of the days years ago when acres of baby ling and whiting were scattered throughout the Mudhole area and we know the outcome of that story. Second article further magnifies the extent of the problem. Two comments stand out:

"Last year, commercial fishing boats were allowed under existing federal rules to harvest 19 million pounds of squid between May and August, even though the quota for that period was only 8.4 million pounds."

and

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council in June endorsed a package of regulatory changes that would limit the future expansion of the fishery and reduce the squid catch in summer months when squid are spawning. "POSITIVE DECISION BY MAFMC" Squid are easier to catch when they are spawning because they aggregate. "SAME PROBLEM WITH SUMMER FLOUNDER" Females lay as many as three hundred eggs encased within gelatinous capsules that are anchored to the seafloor. Dragging their nets on the bottom, fishing trawlers dislodge the capsules from the ocean floor.

While some squid fishermen contend that this process helps distribute the eggs, researchers contend otherwise. Working with squid in captivity, Roger Hanlon, a senior scientist at the Marine Resources Center in Woods Hole, found that dislodging eggs causes the eggs to hatch prematurely. Because their stomachs have yet to be fully formed, they are unable to eat. “Those animals do not survive,” he says. “They are all dead.”

Precisely what I believe is happening with summer flounder as 64% of the commercial summer flounder catch, most of which is harvested in the fall and winter months during the spawn, comes from three areas 616, 537 and 613 which are all located south and east of Long Island / Montauk around the continental shelf. Highly concentrated schools being harvested all winter long.

Keep harvesting during their spawn and shrinking the stocks food source and they'll search out areas with sufficient forage which many will attribute to geographic movement the result of other factors.

Fisheries management is as much if not more about catch composition as it is about overall catch, protecting and promoting recruitment and considering the consequences environmental and policy decisions are having on the overall food chain. If there's an imbalance in any of those three, the fishery will struggle. Summer flounder has a serious problem with two of the three.

5:00 TODAY IS THE CUTOFF FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS, PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS COMING. THERE'S NO GUARANTEES BUT YOUR OPINIONS MATTER AND THEY CAN ONLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE BETTER SO THERE'S ONLY UPSIDE.

How in the World can these decision makers not understand what the true problems are? It is not us recreational fishermen for sure.