Fluke Management

[Down The Hatch]

I have been trying to stay up to date with the current fluke regulations. It seems that the 18" fish are the breeders and those are the ones they want fisherman to keep. I would like to see us be able to keep the 16's and 17's but then they never become the breeding stock. Is there just a simple, common sense way to figure all this out?

[Brewlugger]

3 fish 16 to 18 inches.

[Down The Hatch]

That would work for me

[Brewlugger]

Me too, and the stock will rebound.

[Brewlugger]

3 fish 16 to 18 inches.
And close the winter offshore fishing.

[Fortunate Son]

Agreed. Slot limit and no dragging.

[Detour66]

There seems to be a lot more 15-17.5" fish than 18-21" in fish in NJ waters.

[Solemate]

Said slot fish 10 years ago and everyone thought I was nuts. How times change

[Billfish715]

Some of us have been around for quite a few years and have watched saltwater fishing evolve. Fishing tackle has continued to improve by leaps and bounds, from lighter rods and reels to line, hooks and terminal tackle. Electronics, boats, social media, and techniques have all given new dimensions to fishing. Through all of these advances and years, never has there been a year when there were no fluke to catch. They are resilient.

When size limits were below 15", there was no outrage about overfishing. Even if there was a lot of pressure on the fluke population, they kept on coming back. Do we need to have size limits at 18" or more in order to save the future of fluke fishing? The future somehow becomes the past very quickly. Ask any person who is retired. When I look at the past, I've always been able to find and catch fluke. If I'm fishing for a dinner or two, do I need an 18" fish to eat? No. Would I be happy to catch and eat a 15" or 16" fluke? Yes. Will I destroy the fluke fishing for the future by keeping some of the sandwich-sized fluke? No.

For me, the past was once the future and never has there been a season when I went without having fluke for dinner. The recreational fishermen will never destroy the future of summer flounder fishing. Commercial guys won't either unless they are encouraged and allowed to drag for them during the winter on their spawning beds.

Recreational guys never destroyed the winter flounder fishing or the striped bass and bluefish and weakfish and tuna and ling and whiting and mackerel yada, yada, yada..........but the recs pay the price for the mismanagement of the guys who have the most influential lobbyists.

The past is behind us with its 14.5", 15", 15.5", 16", 16.5", 17", 17.5" limits and still the fluke are here but we can't keep them. Why are the "scientists" afraid of the future of the summer flounder? With the scientists or without them, the fluke are still here. The science is glorified numbers crunching and mathematical equations with incomplete data input and variables. One scientific haul seine for data research and data, taken in the wrong area will give much different information than the same haul seine done only a few miles away. One sample will indicate a much smaller total than the another. It might indicate how few fluke are on the bottom. As a result, you guessed it, the results would indicate a dire future for the fish and fishermen

Had the haul been done with different equipment or in a different area where the fluke were, there would be a different outcome. The past has proven itself. The fluke, despite the regulations, will still be here in the future.

[Billfish715]

One more thing to ponder........After looking back over all of the size limit increases, I had to think, once again, about the science involved with all of the changes and management. If the science and management was accurate and trustworthy, why did the size limits continue to increase? Someone and something had to be wrong, otherwise the increases would never have continued. They would not have continued for so many years either. The mistake would have been discovered and admitted and rectified. Instead, mistakes kept being made for decades. Many of the fishermen on this board can't remember the shorter size regulations. You are being fed incorrect information about who is to blame for the current state of affairs. Many of you believe that your fathers and grandfathers are to blame. WRONG! Look to the legislators who are socially engineering everything including the future of fluke fishing.

No one is held accountable except the fishermen who now are pitted against each other while the rules' makers get off scott free. Think about it. Their management plans have not worked and yet they continue to call the shots. Will they ever admit their failures? Don't hold your breath. We are many. They are few and yet, we continue to comply. Let fishermen set the rules and standards.

[Ry609]

Are we really starting this already?

[Billfish715]

Are we really starting this already?

Starting? No. It never stopped. Fishermen are still passionate about what is happening and not willing to concede. We are still looking for a platform from which to voice our concerns. Gerry has been gracious enough to let us vent and share ideas. If it is not discussed or kept in the forefront, it is forgotten. What are some of your concerns or have you conceded defeat and are willing to forget this is happening?

Just a thought........maybe we should send these posts to people who do make the regulations. Let them say that enough is enough. When "they" get tired of reading all of this, maybe they will be convinced we know what we are talking about and what we want.

[hammer4reel]

Starting? No. It never stopped. Fishermen are still passionate about what is happening and not willing to concede. We are still looking for a platform from which to voice our concerns. Gerry has been gracious enough to let us vent and share ideas. If it is not discussed or kept in the forefront, it is forgotten. What are some of your concerns or have you conceded defeat and are willing to forget this is happening?

Just a thought........maybe we should send these posts to people who do make the regulations. Let them say that enough is enough. When "they" get tired of reading all of this, maybe they will be convinced we know what we are talking about and what we want.

Problem is the fishing community can't agree on anything .
MANY of us suggested a slot limit years ago when we had the original meetings .
Guys who couldn't catch a limit already banged their chest for status quo.
Instead they lost 2 fish . And their chance at a slot fish.

Guys bitched about paying for a 15 dollar license . Instead we lose MILLIONS in government grants yearly that promote better fishing .

By the time guys get on the same page the fishery will sadly be gone.
.
No need for waters to feed the world here.
It should be our resource to manage and fish for .
I don't see Montana or Idaho or Colorado sending us their elk and antelope to eat .
Being a shore based state we should have more input on what goes on here

[bunker dunker]

its very sad but if anyone of our elected officials really cared something would have been done already.they have been taking since the 1st 13 inch keeper size and will continue too.when they need to change a law that works for them,its done over night.look at all the changes since the 13 inch size limit.have any of them gone the fisherman's way.let face facts here ladies and gents,they just don't care.

[Ry609]

...maybe we should send these posts to people who do make the regulations. Let them say that enough is enough. When "they" get tired of reading all of this, maybe they will be convinced we know what we are talking about and what we want.

That's more of what I meant by my post. It seems that the only people hearing about all these ideas is the people on this forum and I'm pretty sure regulators want to keep it that way.

I fish when I have time, which isn't often, and sadly I've conceded nearly 100% of my fluke catch in NJ this season back to the water, because I follow these stupid regs...that's the only thing I've conceded. I'm not the guy who goes out and wants to kill and eat everything I catch, but I'll always fight for rec rights and donate when I can.

[Capt Sal]

its very sad but if anyone of our elected officials really cared something would have been done already.they have been taking since the 1st 13 inch keeper size and will continue too.when they need to change a law that works for them,its done over night.look at all the changes since the 13 inch size limit.have any of them gone the fisherman's way.let face facts here ladies and gents,they just don't care.

booker???joke!!never!!

[dakota560]

Learned that complaining about regulations on this or any site might feel good but does little if anything addressing the issues being groused about.

For anyone interested, ASMFC (Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission) and MAFMC (Mid-Atlantic Marine Fisheries Council) will be having their Joint Meeting next Monday through Thursday October 7th - 10th. MAFMC is hosting this year's meeting in Durham NC. Their web site link is

http://www.mafmc.org/council-events/october-2019-council-meeting

On the left hand side of the web page, there's an area listing upcoming events. October 2019 Council Meeting is listed at the top. Click on the meeting and you can see the agenda. This is a webinar so anyone can dial in and listen. On Tuesday, October 8th from 4:00 to 5:00, 2020 Summer Flounder Specifications is on the agenda, tab 12. If you open tab 12 under Briefing Material, pages 37 to 81 there's an Executive Summary along with prior correspondence with both the Commission and Council addressing what's happened to this fishery. I'd suggest reading it as it gives a step by step explanation supported by marine fisheries own peer reviewed data of how regulatory decisions have impacted a once thriving fishery.

I'd also point everyone here to the following instruction for public comments:

Public Comments: Written comments must be received by 11:59 p.m. on September 25, 2019 to be included in the briefing book. Comments received after this date but before 5:00 p.m. on October 3, 2019 will be posted as supplemental materials on the Council meeting web page. After that date, all comments must be submitted using an online comment form available at available at http://www.mafmc.org/public-comment.

You want your opinions and comments recorded and heard by the public, Commission and Council, you have until Wednesday at 5:00 p.m. to post them on MAFMC's website, the above link will walk you through the process. What that means is your concerns. thoughts, frustrations will be documented on their website for the meeting under Supplemental Comments and available for the Commission, Council and Public's review.

Now's the time as Mike Wells would say to "Put Up Or Shut Up". Decision is up to everyone here.

There should be a thousand comments from this site alone. Balls in each of your courts. If everyone else waits for someone else to take the lead, prepare for more cuts. If you want to make a difference, are concerned about the state of the fishery or want to have your voice and opinion heard, time to get involved. I'd suggest this for recreational anglers, commercial community, party boat captains, for hire operators and any business dependent on a fishery headed south for almost 16 years. If we do or say nothing, we're no different than the people our frustrations are aimed at.

Make a difference or at minimum try.

FYI, at this stage the only way for your comments to meat the deadline for Supplemental Material Disclosure is by emailing them as mentioned on the website to:

Executive Director, Dr. Chris Moore at cmoore@mafmc.org. I would also copy Kiley Dancy at kdancy@mafmc.org and be sure to request your comments be included in the Supplemental Material for the meeting. Kiley has been a tremendous assist and extremely responsive as has Dustin Leaning from ASMFC creating this platform so again if you want your voices heard, take advantage of the opportunity.

[Ry609]

Learned that complaining about regulations on this or any site might feel good but does little if anything addressing the issues being groused about.

For anyone interested, ASMFC (Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission) and MAFMC (Mid-Atlantic Marine Fisheries Council) will be having their Joint Meeting next Monday through Thursday October 7th - 10th. MAFMC is hosting this year's meeting in Durham NC. Their web site link is

http://www.mafmc.org/council-events/october-2019-council-meeting

On the left hand side of the web page, there's an area listing upcoming events. October 2019 Council Meeting is listed at the top. Click on the meeting and you can see the agenda. This is a webinar so anyone can dial in and listen. On Tuesday, October 8th from 4:00 to 5:00, 2020 Summer Flounder Specifications is on the agenda, tab 12. If you open tab 12 under Briefing Material, pages 37 to 81 there's an Executive Summary along with prior correspondence with both the Commission and Council addressing what's happened to this fishery. I'd suggest reading it as it gives a step by step explanation supported by marine fisheries own peer reviewed data of how regulatory decisions have impacted a once thriving fishery.

I'd also point everyone here to the following instruction for public comments:

Public Comments: Written comments must be received by 11:59 p.m. on September 25, 2019 to be included in the briefing book. Comments received after this date but before 5:00 p.m. on October 3, 2019 will be posted as supplemental materials on the Council meeting web page. After that date, all comments must be submitted using an online comment form available at available at http://www.mafmc.org/public-comment.

You want your opinions and comments recorded and heard by the public, Commission and Council, you have until Wednesday at 5:00 p.m. to post them on MAFMC's website, the above link will walk you through the process. What that means is your concerns. thoughts, frustrations will be documented on their website for the meeting under Supplemental Comments and available for the Commission, Council and Public's review.

Now's the time as Mike Wells would say to "Put Up Or Shut Up". Decision is up to everyone here.

There should be a thousand comments from this site alone. Balls in each of your courts. If everyone else waits for someone else to take the lead, prepare for more cuts. If you want to make a difference, are concerned about the state of the fishery or want to have your voice and opinion heard, time to get involved. I'd suggest this for recreational anglers, commercial community, party boat captains, for hire operators and any business dependent on a fishery headed south for almost 16 years. If we do or say nothing, we're no different than the people our frustrations are aimed at.

Make a difference or at minimum try.

FYI, at this stage the only way for your comments to meat the deadline for Supplemental Material Disclosure is by emailing them as mentioned on the website to:

Executive Director, Dr. Chris Moore at cmoore@mafmc.org. I would also copy Kiley Dancy at kdancy@mafmc.org and be sure to request your comments be included in the Supplemental Material for the meeting. Kiley has been a tremendous assist and extremely responsive as has Dustin Leaning from ASMFC creating this platform so again if you want your voices heard, take advantage of the opportunity.

Thank you, couldn't have made it easier than that. Will be submitting comments today.

[bunker dunker]

you do realize this in not complaining,it is fact.how long has this been going on,way to long.
please understand that i love fishing just as much as anyone on this site but
the facts are the facts.

[BT67]

Still lots of 15-17.5 inch fluke in the surf, must've caught 30 in 2 days. Would've loved a few for dinner